alpha male, dating, manly, marriage, masculine, red pill, relationships
Last night at a meeting with my biz colleagues (mostly male) I noticed a curious fact, almost all of them were sporting noticeable facial stubble. Even the ones who are usually the clean cut sort.
Could it be masculinity is making a comeback? The manosphere is going mainstream? That’s it’s OK for men to be men again?
Oh please, say it is so!
I am all for men being men, and unapologetically so. Enough with the yes mamn, whatever you say dear, hair product wearing, never breaking a sweat, hairless, androgynous guys who carry purses and say “it’s a satchel,” or worse admit it is a man purse. Enough. Just don’t.
Women (or moms) may say women like men to be like that, but really they don’t.
What do they like? Men being men. Men acting like men. Men dressing like men. Men smelling like men. (Good God, I can feel my eggs popping right now just thinking about this!)
The feminine craves the mas·cu·line: having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
“he is outstandingly handsome and robust, very masculine”
Yep. You heard it here first. Masculinity is back in style, at long last! (I hope!)
Of course there’s more to it than just being hairy, but it’s a good start.
What do you think ladies? Am I the only one thinking this?
I haven’t seen much of masculinity making a comeback, but girl, I’m praying that it’s so!!!
P.S. I’m facial hair Team Hollywoodian.
Glad you agree, Aurora!
And yes, I agree, Hollywoodian is a good look. Circle beard is nice too. I am not so big on the whole mutton chop thing, some of the facial hair styles went out of fashion for a reason!
I actually hate facial hair, especially when there’s a lot of it…I can tolerate mustaches or sideburns, but I can count on 1 hand the number of men in beards that I’ve glanced twice at. Luckily, my lover says facial hair is itchy and annoying, so he’s usually absolutely clean-shaven. It’s so sexy to be able to hold his face while we’re kissing and feel skin instead of hair!
As for other stuff:
True Tarn, sometimes without facial hair is best. It is certainly not a requirement, nor the most important characteristic. I enjoyed reading your post, look at you guys a year later and still going strong! 🙂
My current beau has a mustache but no beard. He was a California highway patrol officer for many years and says he wears the mustache to cover a scar he got when he crashed on the bike once. He’s also prematurely salt and pepper. He basically could be a double for the actor Sam Elliot (one woman who was here at my biz actually stopped and did a double take when he walked by and asked if he was Sam Elliot!) except probably a decade younger and not quite so much mustache.
Actually make that TWO decades earlier, it looks like Sam Elliot is 70! Guess I know what he will look like in the future now. Weird!
Beards are all the rage in metrosexual and gay Brooklyn. A bunch of copywriters walking around like they just jetted in from their ranch in the Missouri breaks.
Is not shaving proof of virility? Seems like a pretty low masculinity bar.
Lol, that’s true BV. Maybe I just wish it to be so. If in reality it’s now “cool” to pretend to be masculine without actually being so, it’s a new low. Where is the chocolate? Forget the chocolate, where is the martini? Waaaaaa. 😥
And if that’s the case, my blog post changes to this: Faux masculine? Just don’t. Put that in your damn man purse along with your silly hair products! Humph! (Door slams, dishes fly!)
Facial hair was a lot more popular before safety razors were invented.
Here you go, ladies.
“Good God, I can feel my eggs popping right now just thinking about this!”
Now you’ve got me going too! You’d think five children was enough for one mother!
So help me, but I can’t wait for my ultra-virile (but beardless) husband to come home lol
As it should be, Ezzy! Lucky you both are! It’s win-win! 🙂
Just as long as it’s not win-win for the Stork! 😀
Anything is possible! And if so he or she will be your unexpected blessing. But it is good to note, next to the teen years, unexpected babes are highest in the 40s. I think there are ways to prevent this, is desired! I can post links… 😉
If the stork is coming from the North Pole, that is a long way to New Zealand!
“I can post links”
Maybe I do need a refresher course lol
“What do they like? Men being men. Men acting like men. Men dressing like men. Men smelling like men.” Hear hear! I am truly blessed, for I’m surrounded by them! Right now I could hug them all with joy – my precious man most of all of course 😉
I really have a hard time believing that the presence or absence of hair has anything to do with masculinity. I had to tape up nearly every joint I have over the years for injuries, so I started removing body hair in my teens. TMI, I know.
As far as facial hair, being Japanese, I can’t really grow a decent beard, but I can do a decent thug-looking stubble. After a few days, though, it starts to annoy me, so it gets put under the knife.
Indeed sumo, it is really nothing, this facial hair or not thing. I guess the possibility that perhaps it could be a sign that something *more* could be back was the cause for celebration! And if it is not a trend, perhaps it’s high time it be one! Cheers! 🙂
When I’m feeling rebellious I sport a mustache, but it’s really just to annoy the girls. It’s my way of saying, I don’t care if you like it (they don’t). Mrs. Smith gets flustered because, she says, it makes me look like one of her bodyguards. (I think she’s revealing more than she realizes — i.e., her attraction to or perhaps sub rosa liaisons with, her men in black.)
@ bv, growing a mustache just to be ornery, now that is masculine! Lol.
All over the world beards are signs of masculinity, experince, masculine wisdom etc. This is the West so having one triggers certain thoughts like rugged masculinity or homless bum. It is what it is
Back in hajji land, my beard garners respect. I’ve had hajji generals and hardliners chat me up over my face fur. Not really for length but width….. Like almost all things, city boys mess up beards. Some of those guys in that link look even more womanish….’trying to fake it till you make it is jaring to my delicate thinking
Thank you for the comforting thought. 😉 It sounds great in theory but… in practice? Fingers crossed lol
The western world does need more masculine men. The effete western man is a laughing stock in other countries. Western women are to blame for allowing the wrong people to take over the female herd mentality. Feminism is making it increasingly difficult for parents to protect their sons against the bias of the herd, particularly at school. They are forever chipping away at boys and men to keep them constantly confused about their sex and gender. I have given my sons crucial years of home-schooling so they will have some perspective of a male-positive education environment.
I’m proud to say my sons are masculine. The male role model provided by their father was probably the single most important factor of all 🙂
I would agree scfton, some of the beard styles are more pretty boy than manly man. I think it depends on the guy, too, what looks good on one may not on another. What’s your beard ‘style?” Or do you let it just grow au natural?
I agree Ezzy. Many of the “teen heart throb” guys are very effeminate, and they were years ago when I was a teen, too! Many later came out of the closet as gay, in fact. I think these pretty boys are perhaps “less threatening” to young girls than more masculine ones but it does seem to imprint on girls that they should find such guys attractive and sends the message to young boys that this is what girls want. The media (teen movies, music, magazines, etc.) plays a big role, indeed!
I have also heard many men in the manosphere say women can’t teach boys to be men, only other men can. Ideally their father but failing that the military or another male heavy organization (but even the military is being feminized, some would say.)
For example I dated someone last year who had been raised primarily by his very feminist mother who kept him from seeing his “bad influence” (aka masculine) his father. He said his mother coddled him until puberty then could not handle is “maleness” and did all she could to thwart or punish it. At 42 he was still majorly conflicted as a result and while very intelligent and skilled, was unable to really function as a “man” but was more stuck in an almost perpetual teen mindset. Husband, leader, provider or protector? No, these ideas were foreign to him, he was used to being led by a woman, not to being the lead. His mom and I got along well and she was disappointed when I broke things off. She said she was hoping “the right woman could get him in line.” But I have to say, I am not looking to lead my man. Sad all around, she did him no favors by crippling his masculinity. Maybe that’s a whole other blog post… Hummm.
Saw this and thought your beau might enjoy it.
I keep about a days worth of stuble, but thats only because I dont like to shave, but too much and it gets itchy. Also most guys who go the full beard route either end up looking Amish or like Shia lebeouf. And only about 3 percent of males can pull off a mustache without looking like they belong on a sex offender registry.
Thank you fuzzie! 🙂
@ fuzzie that bear sure did hold up traffic. I wonder why he was just wandering around? He seemed to be as perplexed about what the people were up to as they were about him!
My beau hasn’t done law enforcement work for about 15 years so I forget about that side of his life, except the other night we came across a young gal whose car was on fire, electrical wire stuff. He went right into situation control, calmly got onlookers to move away, directed traffic, reassured her and talked her out of trying to get her stuff out of the car, waited until the fire dept got there. It was interesting how he was just like a duck in water, right into securing the scene.
I am not sure if he ever got called in about a bear but he certainly did encounter some strange things. He said it was 98% boredom and paperwork, 2% adrenaline. And he saw some bad stuff, he doesn’t talk about that part much but stuff the rest of us never see, murder scenes, car accident fatalities, and the worst – hurt or dead kids. I am glad he doesn’t do it anymore, I don’t think I could not worry constantly.
Another anecdote, I drive a very small fuel sipping car. Anyway he hates it. Worries about me getting in a wreck, even with all the air bags. He keeps trying to talk me into getting a different vehicle, some HUGE thing. I think he’d like me to drive a tank if he could talk me into it!
@wilson I have heard the itching passes after it grows enough. I am glad I don’t have to shave my face, shaving my legs is bad enough! Lol
Yeah im sure that sucks for girls. I dated a gal who would get all weird about intimacy because she hadn’t shaved her legs in a day or two. I told her I didnt really care if she let her leg hair grow out a coupla days, just keep her holiest of holies trimmed up and we’d be right as rain.
I do mutton chops or a full beard either way I keep my beard short state side and around… Long enough to rest on my chest when I am down range but realy it grows out not down
LOL….: Bloom…. Liked that cop mode did you darling?
Bloom said “I have also heard many men in the manosphere say women can’t teach boys to be men, only other men can”
Is it possible there’s a mother out there who can teach a boy to be a man without male role models? Well folks, that mother ain’t me. I don’t see this as the role of a mother. For my sons I have been a good role model as a male-loving woman. Just nobody ask me to make like a man, okay? 😉
Nice video BTW 🙂
@ Wilson well aren’t you the charmer! Did she smack you? 😉
@scfton it was pretty impressive. He’s not a bossy power tripper at all, as I imagined cops to be. He’s actually very quiet and calm, but people stop and listen. He’s very even tempered and steady, has a “it’s all ok” type energy, which is very soothing. It’s hard to explain but yeah, he’s pretty great. My kids really like him too, they go rushing to the door to greet him and they too just chill right out and settle down when he is around. He’s very solid all around, I am lucky for sure! And he seems to like me, too! Not to jinx it!
Smack me? No. But she did grab my head rather rather forcefully when I was down there checking to see of she complied.
Tmi!!!! (Smack!) tell it to the guys over at return of kings!
I am glad that you watched the video. That bear was quite the maker of mischief. Couldn’t figure out his rationale.
Sounds like you have a winner.
I have two girls so I wouldn’t know about little boys but they sure are adorable in all their little caveman glory! Lol. So you would agree re men make men? I always wondered if that was so…
Hey honestly i actually thought about it, thats the cleanest way I could type it.
Well for sure you should share that stuff over at return of kings! For more intellectual discussions, try just four guys. There are ladies around here! (Humph!) 🙂
What do you think that bear was up to? Just general disrupting because he could? Bears are pretty cool!
Simple. He was a greedy critter looking to fill his tummy tum tum. See I’m like the rest of you calling him a male. 😉
Nah its more fun to banter with gals, the circle jerk bitching among bitter men bores me.
I’m not sure about this idea that men make men or that women make women. And I don’t mean that in a passive-agressive way…it’s that at this very moment in time, I am honestly unsure of my thoughts on this topic.
What exactly makes someone a man, besides XY chromosomes, that makes him different than a person?
“the circle jerk bitching among bitter men bores me.”
Impressive alliteration and the first 6 syllables are like wow
Do you see a man as something other than a person?
Mum, Tarnished is a friend of men.
No, but this is what I mean…Look at the language we’re using. The question is being phrased as “Is it possible for a mother to raise a boy to be a man?”. Conversely, one could ask “Is it possible for a father to raise a girl to be a woman?”.
I just found it worth pointing out that the queries make it sound (at least on the surface) that raising a boy or girl is not the same as raising a person. It’s as though there’s this concept of Boy -> Ideal Man and Girl -> Ideal Woman.
It isn’t being phrased as Boy/Girl -> Ideal Person. Hence my original question;
What makes a man different than a person, and likewise, what makes a woman different than a person?
Thank you, Molly. 🙂
@ Tarn, I was wondering what you would think. I fully believe your experience is as you say and that does give you a unique perspective on gender. I think for the majority, the gender they are physically and the gender they feel they are “inside” match and so of course these are generalizations, but there are exceptions. My daughters, for example, are both clearly female as far as the way they think and act. I see the same in the little boys at my daughter’s preschool. There is one boy who *perhaps* leans more toward the girl personality side of things, but he’s young so it’s hard tp say. AT what age Tarn did you start thinking your outer and inner gender didn’t match?
“Is it possible for a mother to raise a boy to be a man?”
It’s possible, but not consistently, not often (hence this post, the paucity of masculine men). As long as a boy knows he’s not a girl, he’ll look to another of his own shape and thinking.
Age 5. When I started kindergarten.
“Is it possible for a mother to raise a boy to be a man?”
It’s possible but not consistently or often. As long as a boy knows he’s not female he’ll be drawn to masculinity if it’s there. Hence this topic about the paucity of masculine men.
So it’s just a physical basis? The fact that both the boy and the man have a penis, and the boy knows this so he subconsciously says “I should look up to dad, because his genitals are like mine”?
We’ve gone to a new page! I’ve doubled up on my comments. Apologies!
Lol, what’s with the apology? Is having 2 pages of comments bad, or is this an inside joke?
There is an “Older Comments” page that did not turn. I thought I’d clicked the wrong button.
Ah, that makes sense. 🙂
It’s a total male package, including the physical brain.
@ tarn do you remember the moment and what you were thinking? Maybe you have written about it? Did you tell anyone? How did people react, etc. if you feel comfortable sharing.
So for the majority of children, they want to be around people who both look like and think like them. Alright, I can understand that. I admit it would have been nice.
But my question was more along the lines of: Is there something a female adult can’t actually teach a male child/Is there something a male adult can’t actually teach a female child? From the way the conversation was progressing, it seemed that was the general consensus so I was wondering what these sex-specific teachable moments might be.
That’s a big question tarn, I will ponder it…
“Is there something a female adult can’t actually teach a male child/Is there something a male adult can’t actually teach a female child?”
Yes. It’s difficult to identify those sex-specific teachable moments. I think I see where you’re coming from, gender is a social construct?
No, I’ve not written about it yet, but I am cool with sharing. This’ll have to be my last comment for the night though…it’s 1:30am by me, and I must get up at 7 tomorrow. 🙂
I can remember it quite vividly. It was during one of our playtimes, and the teacher had finished handing out various toys. By chance that day, I was the only girl who hadn’t gotten a doll…I’d received a toy cement mixer truck instead, which I was having fun zooming around the floor with some nice noisy marbles in it.
Ms. D came over and apologized for me not getting a doll for me to play “mommytime” with. I smiled and told her “It’s alright, Ms. D. I’m not going to be a mommy, so I don’t need to practice.” She looked at me with a bemused expression and asked why.
I said “Because only ladies are mommies, and I’m not a lady. When I grow up, I’m going to be like Mr. Fredrick* or Mr. Rodgers.** Don’t worry though, I still like you Ms. D”.
She just sat there for a while, then said she was going to write a letter that I had to give to my grandmother. I never found out exactly what the letter said, but later that night my oma was tucking me into bed and she said “Dearheart, many people will try to tell you who to be and what to do out there. The most important thing to remember is to be a good person, not a good girl. Do you understand?” I nodded, she hugged me for a long time, and that was that. It’s one of the memories that’s really helped me throughout my life.
*A strong, burly neighbor who I thought was really awesome because he was so big but had made friends with the sparrows and chickadees who would eat out of his hands. A gentle giant of a man, as oma said.
**From Mr. Rodgers Neighborhood. I absolutely adored his program, and always assumed that if I didn’t grow up big like Mr. Fredrick, I could just be like Mr. Rodgers. I was so happy every time he’d take the time to feed his goldfish or talk about the importance of different jobs or how most problems could be solved by being friendly and listening to the other person. I sometimes think he was the best role model anyone could have, lol.
I mean, yes…some parts are due to nurture and social conditioning. But for the most part you’re born with a certain type of brain, either male or female. The majority of the time it matches up perfectly, but sometimes it doesn’t.
I guess I’m curious to see if anyone who’s a parent here can definitively say “X can only be taught to a boy by another penis-owner because…”
Or the other side, “Y is something that only another clitoris-owner can teach a girl since…”
“X can only be taught to a boy by another penis-owner because…”
Or the other side, “Y is something that only another clitoris-owner can teach a girl since…”
I think examples can be found in both cases. Thank you for raising these questions! I’m going to have to bow out like Bloom and cogitate on it for a while. Unless you want to continue tonight? In my time zone it’s 20:07, in yours it’s heaven knows what. I would be interested in continuing this dialog but methinks you need to sleep.
“I guess I’m curious to see if anyone who’s a parent here can definitively say “X can only be taught to a boy by another penis-owner because…”
Or the other side, “Y is something that only another clitoris-owner can teach a girl since…”
Sophia, children learn the most, not by instruction but by example. Women act, and think, like women. I’m trying to think of a good analogy and right now the only thing that comes to mind is language. The above statement is like asking if someone can definitively say “X can only be taught with a real instructor because…” while “Y can be taught by book alone because….” so we’ll go with language.
1) Total immersion-
this would be the equivalent to living in a two parent and/or extended family situation with masculine influence at both home AND in society. Language absorption is easy and automatic, the best way to obtain fluency. Anyone who has learned a language in-country has gone through this process. Every nuance and subtlety and turn-of-phrase is understood.
2) School environment learning-
This would be the equivalent to living in a single mother home but society still has masculine influence and there are men outside the home to offer that sort of guidance. I’ve seen people take a language for over 10 years in the classroom and never even begin to obtain any type of fluency, but it’s better than nothing.
3) Just a book (no audio)- This would be the equivalent to living in the home with no masculine influence and living in a feminized environment. Some people can learn language this way, to a certain extent. They’re extreme atypicals, probably 0.1 percent of the population…my husband’s grandfather taught himself English this way while pulling a plow. But most people can’t and it certainly isn’t going to be automatic.
Learning to be a man is more nuanced and complicated a process, BY FAR, than learning a language. Women can’t teach this to men because they are women and their brains are wired differently and they behave differently. We see the effects of a father-poor society both individually and en masse. In1965, the Johnson administration commissioned the “Moynihan Report” on the problems of underclass America.
Here’s a small part:
“From the wild Irish slums of the 19th century eastern seaboard, to the riot-torn suburbs of Los Angeles, there is one unmistakable lesson in American history: A community that allows a large number of young men to grow up in broken families, dominated by women, never acquiring any stable relationship to male authority, never acquiring any rational expectations about the future — that community asks for and gets chaos.”
Because sexuality is not a social construction, the fact that 1-3% of the population prefers to ‘identify’ as a member of the opposite sex is no argument — for anything. The biological basis for sexuality and its behavioral effects — what we call gender — cannot be subsumed in pseudo-science cant about the necessity of *ignoring* core distinctions (between the sexes) in cognitive, emotional, physical and sexual conditions.
Socially we’re in a fix because such thinking is now being imposed — by force — on the institutions (public and personal) on which society has depended, forever. An obvious example is the effort to transform boys into little girls in thought and action by the schools, and to forcibly medicate them into submission if they resist. Another example is the present culture of accusation, in which men are criminalized and marginalized as parents, merely because a woman demands it. The latter has now spread to the most intimate of human activities, sex, as the definitions of sexual assault and rape are broadened to include anything an aggrieved woman says they are.
To say that boys can learn to be men because a single mother conscientiously read up on the subject ignores thousands of years of earned experience. It ignores as well the obvious facts of human behavior and preferences that surround us.
Politically, papering over innate sexual differences is very popular with people who would make a pejorative of the term ‘masculinity’, and they’re doing a great job of it. The cultural nihilism of such an effort is breathtaking, as is the absurdity of reading comments by cliche-spouting ‘more equal than thee’, indignant, moral narcissists. It’s summarized by some lightweight who characterizes Ton as a bitter loser transgender weakling. Since he has declined to provide the facts of his life and career, I won’t either. But we’re on the funny farm when such remarks are taken seriously. And we’re endangered, further, all of us, when innate male capacities for protection and provisioning are dismissed as vestigial, dangerous, and useless.
It says nothing good about a man that he’d rather hang out with online girls then actually join the company of men
If women could produce men single moms would be a success
This hits on why women cannot make men
On the subject of facial hair, this was pretty funny.
From the movie ‘A Million Ways to Die in the West’. (for context, the lead character couldn’t afford to have a mustache) 🙂
Good link, Ton. And also very, very depressing.
just to add, I wonder what school that was?
It reminds me of the highschool here that held the mandatory seminar for boys only to address the “domestic violence problem”.
They basically (according to my son) received a lecture explaining that men because violent if they didn’t fully verbally express their feelings often enough. In other words, the answer was to become more like girls.
I know nothing of history between any commenters here.
BuenaVista’s comment “we’re on the funny farm when such remarks are taken seriously” could only have been aimed at me (nothing else made sense) so I looked up “circle jerk”. I now wish I could withdraw my comment at https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2014/12/03/the-return-of-masculinity/comment-page-1/#comment-1129
No Molly he wasn’t talking bout you. That was something Wilson said about scfton on another post.
As for how we all know each other, I met most of these folks at just four guys where I was a regular for over a year before I started this blog. It’s a great blog, I learned a LOT there. It’s not as active as it used to be, but there are many wise people there.
My comment appears to approve of Wilson’s comment, which (iirc) was intended as an insult. That’s not what I want. I’ll be guided by you, I’m still a naive teenager! I really don’t want it to look like I’m supporting an insult. It’s just not me. 😐 I didn’t know the meaning of circle jerk at the time or I wouldn’t have commented, insult or not ! My stoopid naivete 😦
Cool re just four guys! 🙂 Was my big cuz Cill there too? I’ll check it out if he was!
Bloom is correct, Molly. I referenced Wilson’s characterization.
The normal rebuttal of men discussing red pill issues is evidenced in recent comments by Wilson and Tarn. Namely: “these are bitter clingers, whining from their basement keyboards, who got dumped by their wives (boo-hoo) because they should have known better, and not all women are like that. Loser! Loser!” The more spirited ones, like Wilson, add name-calling and personal insults to the mix.
It is true that many guys provide details about their personal lives (I’ve been quite guilty of that) in an effort to make sense of experience. Ironically, although we’re instructed from day one by feminists to get in better touch with our feelings, this behavior is described as pathetic and weak. Cognitive dissonance much?
It gets familiar. I have long learned not to discuss these matters with even my closest female friends, because they lapse into the same derision and denial — even at the same time that they may admit that the facts are horrifying. It’s a very peculiar behavior, but the feminist orthodoxy runs deep in educated women, and they spit out these talking points like bad politicians talking about the budget. Shaming is crucial to the exercise because it thereby characterizes a male dissenter as crazy, foolish, weak, pathetic — i.e., people incapable of reason, morality or even accurate observation. Such people should be dismissed from any conversation. They would save time, if they’re going to troll a blog like this by just typing over and over “You can’t say that you pathetic circle-jerking Loser!”
The Wilson case is archetypal. Ton is one of the more accomplished people in the world at his trade, and his trade is on the extreme edge of the martial scale. So Wilson derided him as a transgender weakling. Tarn writes that he is incapable of kindness and respect. They did so reflexively, it seems. People don’t get where they are, in Ton’s world, without knowing a great deal about higher order qualities such as respect. In fact they don’t survive, often. Ton’s been blown up and taken three 7.62 cartridges to the thorax, and is still in business. Today I pushed back.
You’ve got one heck of thread going here.
I think Liz is very close to it. Both parents are needed as role models for their gender.In the present culture, there aren’t any heroes. No role models for men outside of home.
Molly, trust in Redpillgirl notes’s judgement. Should you offend anyone, count on a response.
FW, I disagree completely, as we continue to celebrate (in film and literature) profoundly interesting heroes (if we exclude RomCom emoporn). It’s another case of the illogic of the MAN-UP and JUST BE PAJAMABOY directives. No chicks buy tickets to see that stuff. Feminist directives are just power plays by women who wish to diminish the legal and emotional and professional aspects of masculinity, and comprise an organizing principle for women en masse. One on one they still want to date Paul Newman.
Just don’t remind them of this fact. Because they’re SIW and we men should act more sensitive and submissive. Argument #398 for “show do not tell.” RP thinking is samizdat. We live in a secret society.
BuenaVista thank you! 🙂 My parents well and truly warned us against feminism and female “group think”. Mum calls it “horizontal group think” or a really disgusting term I won’t repeat here!
Cill spoke highly of sfcton and tarnished, saying they are the rare type who will stand up for their mates when push comes to shove, and he’s never been wrong about these things. I’ll continue to think highly of both of them. I’ve read most of tarnished’s blog (and loved it) but not sfcton yet!
I will delete your comment on that no problem. I believe Cill was there right near the end, a couple of the regulars had a falling out and a lot of people have moved on or started their own blogs.
Yes thank you Bloom! 🙂
Bv For the record I have great respect for you and have never felt you were “a bitter loser.” My heart breaks for you and your son and for all too many in the same situation. If the state took my kids, gave their dads full custody, and then said I had no rights to see them (but better not forget to send that check, missy) I would be a wreck. Worse than a wreck! I would be a ranting lunatic. It’s most unjust, these laws to men. IMHO it’s state assisted kidnapping. Speaking out against that isn’t weakness, it’s advocating for the rights of men and fathers and children.
And I agree about Ton as well, he may not be the most PC in his wording (PC and Ton in the same sentence is even jarring!) but I know who I would want on my side in a showdown! Romantically, let’s just say I think Ton would be too intense for me, plus I am not a gal to share so the poly thing I could not do. But to each their own and if he and they are happy, well then that’s what matters. If he were my man, there would be frying pans flying his way. Lol.
As for Wilson, I am not sure as he has not said but I suspect he is young and yet to take the red pill. I hope he will continue to read up on it, IMHO every man should.
Tarn I have lots of respect for you too, and you are in a unique position straddling the gender divide, but as someone who is not a parent nor been through the divorce wringer, it’s hard for you to comment on these things I would think. And this is in no way meant to minimize your pov. It’s just before I had kids, I *thought* I knew. I knew nothing. Granted I was the youngest in my family and had never even babysat, so I really did know nothing! Same with marriage. I *thought* I knew. I knew nothing. Again, my father died when I was 2, my mom raised my brother and I solo, the closest I saw of a marriage was on TV. And it showed. Unless one has been there it’s just theoretical/observational, not that you don’t have good insight. I am sure it may seem those of us who have are loons at times but they are battle scars hard earned. The world (and love) can be a very cruel thing. I am glad you have not experienced such in your current romantic situation, and I hope you never do. Peace, again!
@ Molly also just so you know there’s the (ahem) original meaning of circle jerk but these days it has become more to mean “pointless and time wasting” rather than the literal meaning, if that helps you feel less embarrassed! People say it casually in the US, not knowing the original meaning. And it was good illiterate on, I’ll give it that. 🙂
@ fuzzie indeed, this thread reminds me a bit of the good old j4g days. Love it!
@ Liz I liked your analogy of language, I think that’s a good way to put it. I am teaching my girls about being a woman by being a woman. It’s a big responsibility because if I am show them the wrong things (ride the carousel, immoral, or general tart behavior) that tells them that’s how women should be. I have made my mistakes but you are correct kids are watching! And learning. And friends too, my old neighbor has two girls, friends w my oldest. I love their mom as a person but relationship wise, shes a train wreck. Her kids have seen too much and I started minimizing my daughter’s play dates w them because I can see her girls are already planning their teen derailment rebellion (sex, drugs, rock and roll woot woot!) and I don’t want my daughter going down w them. Maybe some would disagree, say you can’t shield your kids from the world, but I think it’s my job until they are old enough to cope w it. I want to teach and show my girls that the whole “go girl lean in who needs a man?” Culture is not only dead wrong, it is the path of pain and emptiness. I don’t have boys but if I did I would try to show them what a good woman is, and point out ones who aren’t, in hopes they would choose wisely when they grow up.
@ Molly and the other young ladies, you are well ahead to learn these things now. Avoid the pitfalls. As Ton said the old fashioned ways work for a reason, they are time tested over millennia. Anyone who has eyes to see can look at what young girls are told to do, look at girls 35ish who have done that, and see that it does not lead to happiness. I will tell my own girls the same. Find a good man. Make him your world. Be good to him. Be a good woman. Forgo the typical “modern woman” ways. You will have a good life.
From the start, boys are acutely aware of the way a man fills out space in every sense, lying, standing, moving, and in terms of shape. The closest a woman can come to being a substitute for a good man is to fill space the way a man does and have experience of the power of a young man’s testosterone in her own body. The successful way an older man tempers a younger man depends on his testosterone experience. I’ve heard men describe testosterone as “fire in the blood”. I can’t begin to imagine how it feels, except to say I’ve seen it surge through them like a tsunami.
In order to convince boys of her masculinity a woman would have to be a man without a penis. If faced with the choice between her and an entire male, then other things being equal, boys will heed him in preference to her.
With the best will in the world, a woman can’t be a male role model. As feminism has reminded us ad nauseam, a male role model can be bad. He can also be incomparably good for a boy. Not as much as the boys, but immensely, my daughters too have benefited from having my husband in their lives. I have seen it, experienced it, watched it grow. No-one will ever convince me that there’s any such thing as complete substitute for a good man.
That’s a fantastic analogy! Definitely goes a long way toward explaining why my friends and I had an easier time with male teachers. 🙂
Lol, I don’t think there’s a single person here who’d disagree with you there! I have to remind myself though, that sometimes other commenters on manosphere-based blogs assume that discussing a topic is the same as promoting it…It seems that a number of people think I’m saying the sexes are exactly the same, when I am assuredly not.
If there’s anyone who believes that gender is a mostly biological aspect, it’s me.
“X can only be taught to a boy by another penis-owner because…”
Or the other side, “Y is something that only another clitoris-owner can teach a girl since…”
I haven’t answered that aspect directly, have I! It comes back to my earlier comment: it’s a total male package. A clitoris-owner can’t be a living, familiar example of what it is to be a good man.
You are sooo right Mum. Any chance of restoring my allowance? XD
A couple of personal observations here. I have a sixteen year old son involved in scouting. His mother and I separated and she moved off to New York when he was two. I did not see him again for three years. I was able to scrape up the money to fly him and his older sister down to Georgia twice a year after that. In 2006 his mother became very ill and they came to live with my wife and I. She moved back to Georgia and than passed away at 35. He is not the same person that he was when he only had his mothers influence. I have a term for these poor guys. I call it estrogen poisoning. I young boy raised mostly by his mother is missing the guy experience. Guys do not see or relate to the world in the same way that the ladies do. If a young boy has only his mothers influence he is missing half of himself. In a group of young men you can tell who doesn’t have a strong male influence in their life. They get the crude humor and bad jokes from school, but there aren’t very many mom’s that teach them how to be men. We wrestle and rough house, check out the cute girls, work on cars and build things together. All the things I did with my dad. On of the scout dads was an industrial chemist before going back to school to be a dentist. He and his son study chemistry and medicine together. It’s not the activity, it’s the world view and spending time together. If you don’t have a man in the house find a decent man for the kid to spend time with. I don’t have scientific evidence just observations. I found your site from a link at sfcton’s blog. He has some interesting opinions. Turn off all of your societal conditioning and watch the old Conan movies or Mad Max or even the Vikings. Men are programmed for aggression and risk taking. If that genetic programming is suppressed you get a crippled adult. A successful man one hundred years ago survived long enough to raise his children into their teens. Teenagers started families. Families stayed together for the increased chances of survival. We have trashed everything that made our societies work up until recently. Everybody wants to make excuses for feral children running the streets like wild dogs. If you love your children make them whole people. We are not all the same and I try to accept everybody the way I find them. The girls need their dad as much as the boys. If they don’t have that positive male model in their life they get just as screwed up as the boys. Just an opinion.
Asking the question why women cannot raise men seems to show a fundamental lack of understanding that there are differences between men and women
The big reason why? Women are risk etc adverse
I have not yet meet the gender confused ec that didn’t think men and women were interchangeable and a whole lot of other silly ass notions
Thanks for adding that ken, very interesting observations. I would agree! My father passed away in a car accident when I was 2, my brother 4. my mom raised us on her own. affected all of us, of course, but I think it affected my brother the most in just the way you describe.
The short answer is no, it isn’t making a comeback. Men who lack masculinity, whatever that is supposed to mean, are as likely to have beards as those who don’t.
Carrying the theme forward of risk aversion and risk taking.
At age eleven, and then at twelve, my father took me deer hunting. Each of these two years he would wait for the weekend to buy tags where both does and bucks were fair game. This was to insure that I would not have to worry about shooting a doe by mistake. Neither of these two years did I get close enough to bag a deer (especially since I was carrying the shorter range 12 gauge shotgun), but the lesson in stalking and self reliance was instrumental to my rite of passage.
We never got to hunt after that, because my mother had divorced my father. Those brief lessons of being a man had to be put to work being the man of the family and watching over my mother and two brothers. That carried on for about two years until my mom remarried. The stepfather tried his best, but he was not a man who would take us boys hunting or fishing. High school was spent mostly finding father figure surrogates in select male teachers.
Fast forward to the age of twenty-one, when I joined the Army for mostly patriotic reasons. This was early 1984, at the beginning of the end of the Cold War and before the collapse of the Former Soviet Union. My assignment sent me to West Germany on the border with East Germany, facing several ground armies of Soviet troops engaged in daily training to invade Western Europe. I was trained for this, and even in my off time leading several risky trips into East Germany and past the Wall to East Berlin.
What prepared me for this mission? Was it the Army basic training, language school, intelligence school, tactical mission training? Were there not good women soldiers as well as men in my 21 months of training? Certainly there were.
But what prepared me most for staring down the Group of Soviet Forces German? It was a father who would put a Zebco spincast fishing rod in the hands of a seven year old or a five pound shotgun in the hands of an eight pound eleven year old. It was a retired Army colonel it would beat me at chess after school for weeks until I could finally win one game against him (and then go on to win regional high school trophies in the eight grade). It was a male teacher who let me study computer science as independent study before the IBM PC was available in the marketplace. What my mother taught me as a boy becoming a man was how to be afraid of women.
I would not share this much on a public forum unless it was to serve as a wake up call to women who think they can be both mommy and daddy. You can not, so do not even try. Help your boys find role model surrogates to learn from.
As an intellectual growing up in the Age of the Jock and the Women’s Liberation Movement, it was a horrible time to find ones masculinity. The Army helped, but it was not enough. My epiphany came in my early thirties, while working as a volunteer actor in the California Renaissance Pleasure Faire. One faire morning like most I lay out my great kilt on a concrete slab. Slowly I began pleating the wool fabric, gathering it up so that I could belt it around my waist and shoulders. I was kneeling in my period linen undergarment that looks like a Jesus robe. Another actor, a woman, stopped by and watched me finish putting on the kilt. She commented how this was the strongest she had ever felt the presence of masculine energy. An hour later the gates were open and the show began.
I wish I could say that was the beginning of my new normal. There were many glimpses of the red pill since then, but it only got close enough to my mouth to taste the bitterness. Forty years after the last hunting trip, I swallowed the pill. Everything women taught me about self emasculation to make myself attractive to the opposite sex was completely wrong. Now, twentysomethings give me props on the steampunk beard. Women are hitting on me, and it is getting easier to read the indicators of interest and invitations to approach. 2015 and going forward should be a grand time to be masculine.