Tags
battle of the sexes, breaking up, dating, divorce, gender dynamics, making up, marriage, red pill, relationships, remarriage, romance, second marriage
Ladies, this weekend was a good reminder for me that I cannot lose sight of the fact that they don’t speak Vesuvian on Mars.
Or in other words, men and women are different. We just are. We think different. We experience the world different. We want and are motivated by different subconscious and/or biological agendas and desires. And we have been since the beginning of man meets woman.
I can hear it now, “But these are modern times, things have changed.”
I would argue they haven’t. You may be reading this on the Internet from halfway around the world, on your phone, while eating a meal you didn’t kill, raise, forage prepare, or even cook while I sit here and have my morning coffee made from beans grown in a country I have never visited that were picked and processed and transported and roasted and ground by people I have never met using a process I don’t understand any better than putting the little plastic cup into the machine, adding water, and pressing a flashing blue button — but the reality remains that we’re not really that different than homo sapiens who lived in mud huts and barely understood fire.
Ok, maybe you can explain the chemical in’s and out’s of fire (or not), but if I am honest, the only thing I know about fire is that I flick a cigarette lighter or strike a match and it happens. Without that, I’d be in bad shape.
But back to my point. From the dawn of time, or however you believe man and woman came to be, men performed certain functions of survival that required a particular skill set and women performed an entirely different set of survival functions that required another skill set. They needed each others skills, but there was little overlap between what skills and knowledge he needed and she needed to do their set of survival tasks. They were specialists and their brain functioning reflected that.
We could get distracted by the nurture or nature thing here, or one off scenarios where maybe occasionally a man or woman was outside the box and that worked out, but let’s just simplify it to say that either way, overall and most of the time, men and women who survived did so because their brains worked in the way they needed them to in order to do it. And it hasn’t changed and (like it or not) it probably won’t ever change.
Men lived in a world that required largely physical and logistical prowess: hunting, fighting, securing resources, inventing/building stuff, and (ahem) impregnating women. It was a world requiring few words (but very complex just the same.)
Women lived in a world that required being able to do something with the resources provided and read the tea leaves of nuance: or in other words they lived in a village filled with women and children and old people. Survival meant navigating the complexities of that world, reading between the lines, making deals and alliances, and concealing any ulterior motives that might rock the boat because without that village odds of survival were slim to none. It was a world requiring a vocabulary and understanding of syntax and meaning and what was being said without it being said or in addition to what was said that would stump a trained linguist.
Fast forward to men and women today. Man talks to woman. He says a short and simple statement that means exactly what he said. Woman translates that simple and literal sentence to mean what it would mean if she was saying it, including all of the hidden subtext, then responds. Perhaps she responds with a soliloquy or a sentence, but guaranteed whatever she said, she has said, but not said, about 15 other things as well.
He is trying to process how things went from what he said to what she said. He either repeats what he said, or tries to respond to some or all of the gazillion plus one things she said (but misses the 15 she didn’t say).
She feels misunderstood. He feels misunderstood. Maybe they start to get upset at the things that were or were not ever said or meant or how the things they said or didn’t say were misinterpreted. Maybe they try to keep talking, maybe they get mad and stop talking.
Then add to it, not only are they talking out loud, they are also talking internally.
From what men have told me anyway, inside his head the dialog is again pretty straightforward and literal. There’s no “unsaid” or “secret” or “hidden” message.
Inside her head, the dialog is more like a complicated decision tree, complete with multiple rabbit trails, twists, turns, and numerous contingency outcomes. Oh and about 15 more things she is not saying but expects him to understand because, duh.
And whether it was 1500 years ago or this past weekend, it all boils down to this: they don’t speak Vesuvian on Mars. But somehow in the heat of the moment, it is all too darn easy to forget that.
Either right then, or after everyone settles down, they hopefully kiss and hold each other and don’t say anything (except maybe “I’m sorry”) and then somehow magically everything is OK again.
Let those who have ears hear.
“Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There is too much fraternizing with the enemy.”
― Henry Kissinger
Hiya,
FWIW (from a divorced guy)
1) Sit down with a pad of paper and a pencil in a quiet room with a glass of nice wine and write down the issues about which you have feelings.
2) For each entry on the list (that accurately describes your feelings – it is true)…write down the list(?) of actual concrete issues. (these are the things which a man can understand and negotiate on)
3) prioritise those issues. Addressing #1 fruitfully will likely decimate the following list anyway. #2 will do the same…and so on
4) talk to him as clearly as you can about each of those issues. Maybe have a series of conversations (when you are both in a productive mood), take it steadily, not some Götterdämmerung style major showdown.
(now that’s male style to the core)
5) Having explained the issues in terms that he can understand and address…and seen his willingness to address them. Aren’t you feeling much more in tune with him? He understands you better. Now might be the time to explain the feelz that sprang from the issues. You more than met him half way, so now maybe you can draw him back towards the middle ground.
GirlWritesWhat / Karen Straughn mentions in her second 25 things video that there’s only a 10% overlap in personality types between men and women…we really are different.
My wife used to drive me nuts by waiting till we’re in bed, need to get to sleep for work the next day…and she starts waffling about nothing that makes sense to me. After an hour of fem-sensitive interrogation she’d finally spit out the problem. Frankly the problem was usually very easily solved. The whole experience was, in my humble opinion, made far more complicated, far more mood damaging, temper straining than it needed to be. because you know what? I wanted to help her in the first place…it didn’t need to be like that.
Starting the conversation in terms he can understand is very helpful and it doesn’t mean you can’t end it on more familiar emo-fluff (sue me, I’m male) terms.
IME the more a female broods on an issue, the more tangled with unhelpful emotion it becomes (from a male perspective). Pick a good time, make him a nice sandwich and give him a nice cold beer and talk to him from the list from above.
Good luck, but I don’t think that you need it. Just address the issues in a levelheaded way, then shed a few happy tears afterwards…if you must 😉
Thanks Spawny, good words of advice there!
Hunting a mastodon would require a lot of communication and cooperation. The style would direct, brief, and unambiguaous. Could this be where the two communication styls diverged? It would seem to me that if you attempt to work on those attributes, the concept that you are trying to get across will be better transmitted.
Once again, all these evil manospherians are pulling for you.
True Fuzzie, I didn’t mean to oversimplify that, men needed intelligence, skill, cunning, strength, communication, and all the rest to bring home that mastodon and they still do need all those skills to survive as a man today. Over thinking or talking too much, too loudly, too long, or getting emotional about the mastadon was not in man’s favor. Well said. I think you are onto something…
Maybe you are saying as a therapist friend once said about women talking to men, “Try to say it in five words or less.”
Ok, now go back to being an ebul manospherian! Look at you guys, trying to ruin my life! Men! 😉
“Ok, now go back to being an ebul manospherian! Lok at you guys, trying to ruin my life! Men!”
Well, the thing is that we don’t want to ruin all wimminz’ lives, but it’s those fembots, they insist that that is our raison d’etre…who dare disappoint the fembots?
Lol Spawny, how generous of you to even want to make the fembots happy! Totally ebul. 😉
I’m gaslighting them…
Entirely off-topic, but I ran across the Iroquois story of the Chipmunk and the Bear, and thought fuzzie-wuzzie might like to see it:
http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/ChipmunkandBear-Iroquois.html
Thank you, Photocourier. i loved it. Here’s something for everybody.
Never heard the Kissinger quote before. Loved it.
Kissinger also remarked to another Cabinet member that “power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.” To which the other guy responded, “That’s good, Henry. You need one.”
@ gamer so true isn’t it? Despite the difficulties, confusion,
and risk, men and women can’t seem to leave each other alone! For long, anyway…
Re male/female differences…authors of novels need to create believable characters of the opposite sex, which must be a challenge…of course, they also need to create characters of different cultures, time periods, professions, ethnicities, etc…but usually a significant % of their readers will be members of the opposite sex, whereas they’re relatively safe from having someone from the 17th century (or whenever) show up and say, “No, we really weren’t like that.”
I think it would be a fun & interesting exercise, in a college class for example, to have the students write short stories featuring protagonists of the opposite sex…then have the characters critiqued by real members of said opposite sex. Probably no professor would dare do this in today’s politically-correct university environment, though…
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@ Spawney
“…The whole experience was, in my humble opinion, made far more complicated, far more mood damaging, temper straining than it needed to be. because you know what? I wanted to help her in the first place…it didn’t need to be like that.”
Your advice to the women is good if they actually want a masculine solution and action to a problem.
What is being overlooked here is that usually (yes, there is individual variation) when a woman complains about a problem, she is not actually asking for a solution. She is emoting, and wants a limbic connection with you. Typically, the best response by a man to a woman complaining about a problem is to just warmly hug and stroke her. Nothing need be said or done.
It took me forty years of experience to grasp this. A man needs self discipline to train himself not to do what comes naturally to him, especially with someone he loves.
jacklabear,
oh, I definitely agree with you regarding
“Typically, the best response by a man to a woman complaining about a problem is to just warmly hug and stroke her. Nothing need be said or done.”
Perhaps I should have added to my initial comment something like
“if, after making the list of actual issues, you find that list to be empty…just go ask the guy for a hug and a ‘there, there, honey. I care about all your feelz (but go talk to your girlfriends about them)’.”
Maybe the guy has your wisdom (jacklabear), maybe he hasn’t…so she should always make a little effort to help him help her. 😉
@ Spawney and Jacklabear I agree with you both, good for the gals to understand how to speak about issues to men, and for men to understand how to deal with women’s feelz. A lot of the misunderstanding seems to come from the sexes trying to communicate to the opposite sex like they would like to be communicated with, rather than the opposite. Then add some kind of disagreement and tensions high, usually even harder to remember! As a woman I would agree, a hug and a “there there” goes a long way with a spun up woman. Even if her head is spinning around and around and you are afraid if you touch her she might implode! 😉