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alpha male, attraction, bad boys, battle of the sexes, beta, blue pill, dating, divorce, marriage, movies, music, red pill, relationships
Since stumbling across the red pill philosophy, I find examples of its various theories all the time in music lyrics and sometimes in movies.
How about you?
This is another interactive reader post, I am hoping that you will share examples of red pill music (lyrics, links to videos, etc) or movies here in the comments.
Probably the most red pill movie I have seen would be “The Hangover.” It is absolutely filled with great examples of all sorts of red pill tenants, plus its pretty funny, if you like sick humor like I do.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1119646/
As for red pill songs, there are so many. I will list them as I think of them in the comments.
Please, chime in!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cKQCHty4XUM
@ ton hummm, the link didn’t work for me, what song were you linking to?
Here’s One:
The Alpha song, complete with mention of tingles!
Say You Love Me
Fleetwood Mac
Have mercy, baby on a poor girl like me,
You know I’m falling, falling, falling at your feet,
I’m tingling right from my head to my toes,
So help me, help me, help me make the feeling go.
‘Cause when the loving starts, and the lights go down,
And there’s not another living soul around,
Then you woo me until the sun comes up,
And you say that you love me.
Have pity baby,
Just when I thought it was over,
Now you got me running, running, running for cover.
I’m begging you for a little sympathy,
‘Cause if you use me again it’ll be the end of me.
‘Cause when the loving starts, and the lights go down,
And there’s not another living soul around,
Then you woo me until the sun comes up,
And you say that you love me.
Baby, baby, hope you’re gonna stay away,
‘Cause I’m getting weaker, weaker everyday,
I guess I’m not as strong as I used to be,
And if you use me again it’ll be the end of me.
‘Cause when the loving starts, and the lights go down,
And there’s not another living soul around,
Then you woo me until the sun comes up,
And you say that you love me.
Fallin’ fallin’ fallin
Fallin’ fallin’ fallin
While I can’t say it’s full on red pill, there is a lot of wisdom in it.
Sword of Attila, by Michael Curtis Ford, was a good book if you haven’t read it, Fuzzie. 🙂
I tire of relationship RP subjects, so I’ll offer a red pill song that’s more political:
Rise Against, All we are is entertainment:
My favorite band. 🙂
How about It’s My Party:
…and the sequel, Judy’s Turn to Cry
A song about solipsism…and men having needs, too!
(Of course he got a lot of flack for this song, was accused of being an ebul woman hating jerk)
“I Wanna Talk About Me”
Toby Keith
We talk about your work how your boss is a jerk
We talk about your church and your head when it hurts
We talk about the troubles you’ve been having with your brother
About your daddy and your mother and your crazy ex-lover
We talk about your friends and the places that you’ve been
We talk about your skin and the dimples on your chin
The polish on your toes and the run in your hose
And God knows we’re gonna talk about your clothes
You know talking about you makes me smile
But every once in awhile
I wanna talk about me
Wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number one
Oh my me my
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see
I like talking about you, usually, but occasionally
I wanna talk about me
I wanna talk about me
We talk about your dreams and we talk about your schemes
your high school team and your moisturizer creme
We talk about your nanna up in Muncie, Indiana
We talk about your grandma down in Alabama
We talk about your guys of every shape and size
The ones that you despise and the ones you idolize
We talk about your heart, about your brains and your smarts
And your medical charts and where you start
You know talking about you makes me grin
But every now and then
I wanna talk about me
Wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number one
Oh my me my
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see
I like talking about you, usually, but occasionally
I wanna talk about me
I wanna talk about me
You you you you you you you you youyouyouyouyou
I wanna talk about me
I wanna talk about me
Wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number one
Oh my me my
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see
I like talking about you, usually, but occasionally
I wanna talk about me
I wanna talk about me
And this one, about a guy who is hip to hypergamy, AF/BB, the wall etc. who flips the script.
(Again he was highly criticized for being an ebul woman hater…)
How Do You Like Me Now?
Toby Keith
I was always the crazy one
I broke into the stadium
And I wrote your number on the 50 yard line
You were always the perfect one
And the valadictorian so
Under your number I wrote “call for a good time”
I only wanted to catch your attention
But you overlooked me somehow
Besides you had too many boyfriends to mention
And I played my guitar too loud.
How do you like me now?
How do you like me now,
Now that I’m on my way?
Do you still think I’m crazy
Standin here today?
I couldnt make you love me
But I always dreamed about living in your radio
How do you like me now?
When I took off to Tennessee
I heard that you made fun of me
Never imagined I’d make it this far
Then you married into money girl
Aint it a cruel and funny world?
He took your dreams and tore them apart.
He never comes home
And youre always alone
And your kids hear you cryin down the hall
Alarm clock starts ringin
Who could that be singin
Its me baby, with your wake up call!
How do you like me now?
How do you like me now,
Now that I’m on my way?
Do you still think I’m crazy
Standin here today?
I couldnt make you love me
But I always dreamed about living in your radio
How do you like me now?
Tell me baby…
I will preach on…
There’s the entire musical, “Camelot,” based very loosely on the King Arthur legends and stories….first, Guenivere, depressed about her planned arranged marriage to the much older Arthur, mourns “The Simple Joys of Maidenhood”…she will now miss out on being rescued in a wood and, even worse:
“Will two knights never tilt for me
And let their blood be spit for me?”
…but she gets to rather like old Arthur, who is not such a bad sort. But the French knight Lancelot comes on the scene, and he is very arrogant:
…so Guenivere, now queen, starts falling for him. She demonstrates her love by attempting to goad 3 other knights into fighting him:
(continued)
(more)
Despite their attempts to resist one another’s attractions, Guinevere and Lancelot begin an affair, which is discovered. Arthur would probably have just let it go, but his enemy Mordred makes a legal case of it, accusing Guinevere of treason. The case must be tried by a jury, under the legal system that Arthur has established. She is found guilty, and Mordred mocks Arthur: “Kill the queen and your life is over. Let her go, and your life is a lie.” Reluctantly, Arthur order Guinevere burned at the stake. Lancelot raises an army and attempts to rescue her:
The kingdom is destroyed, and the surrounding Dark Ages close back in.
Nice photoncourrier! 🙂
Shakesphere has a lot of red pill wisdom in his plays, Taming of the Shrew comes to mind. With a modern twist Kate could be played by an uppity SIW feminist who will marry no man…until she meets the one who won’t bow to her, and she falls madly in love!
On a side note, I was looking at the stats for this site and in the past two months there have been more views than over the whole year before that! Yay. And this blog has had visitors from almost every country in the world, except for areas where I suspect Internet access either isn’t available or allowed (parts of Africa, the middle east, etc.)
Re “Taming of the Shrew,” there is a pretty good move (“10 Things I Hate About You”), which transports the play to a modern high school.
@ photoncourrier thanks, I will have to watch that! 🙂
I really liked the Rise Against tune, as well as the comment about fatigue with relationship issues. It’s all plain.
Bobby Dupea ftw.
Whoever ‘photoncourier’ is, he/she is into “Let’s you and him fight!” So that’s a fail.
BV, Photon Courier is me, David Foster. No mystery.
Tobby Keith was feminist enemy number one with that how do you like me now song because it incites violence against women…. mean while the Dixie chicks did a song about killing a man and no word was said
Hard to handle by the crowes; old tune covers by a lot of men
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mtLbE3IUY2U
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/blackcrowes/hardtohandle.html
Glad you liked Rise Against, BV. 🙂
I’ve got to rent that Bobby Dupea movie now!
@ton love that whole album by cc, I saw them in concert back in the day 🙂
@ ton true re This song, imagine if it was a man singing about a woman! But nobody blinked about this? Wtf??
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw7gNf_9njs
Goodbye Earl
Dixie Chicks
Mary Anne and Wanda were the best of friends
All through their high school days
Both members of the 4H Club
Both active in the FFA
After graduation Mary Anne went out
lookin’ for a bright new world
Wanda looked all around this town
and all she found was Earl
Well, it wasn’t two weeks
after she got married that
Wanda started gettin’ abused
She put on dark glasses
and long sleeved blouses
And make-up to cover her bruise
Well, she finally got the nerve to file for divorce
She let the law take it from there
But Earl walked right through that restraining order
And put her in intensive care
Right away Mary Anne flew in from Atlanta
On a red eye midnight flight
She held Wanda’s hand and they worked out a plan
And it didn’t take them long to decide
That Earl had to die
Goodbye, Earl
Those black-eyed peas?
They tasted all right to me, Earl
You’re feeling weak?
Why don’t you lay down and sleep, Earl
Ain’t it dark?
Wrapped up in that tarp, Earl
The cops came by to bring Earl in
They searched the house high and low
Then they tipped their hats
and said “Thank You, ladies, if you hear from him let us know”
Well, the weeks went by and spring turned to summer
And summer faded into fall
And it turns out he was a missing person
who nobody missed at all
So the girls bought some land
and a roadside stand
Out on Highway 109
They sell Tennessee ham
and strawberry jam,
And they don’t lose any sleep at night
‘Cause Earl had to die
Goodbye Earl
We need a break
Let’s go out to the lake, Earl
We’ll pack a lunch
And stuff you in the trunk, Earl
Well, is that all right?
Good! Let’s go for a ride, Earl.
Hey
Well, hey hey hey
Ah, hey hey hey
Well, hey hey hey
Liz, Bobby Dupea is the Nicholson character. Movie: Five Easy Pieces, director Bob Rafelson.
When you think about the blatant double standard and the constant msm etc all disrespect you have to start wondering how pathetic the average White man has become to put up with all the bullshit.
The shit test:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WwRrKaq0IyY
I’m Gonna Miss Her
Brad Paisley
Well I love her
But I love to fish
I spend all day out on this lake
And hell is all I catch
Today she met me at the door
Said I would have to choose
If I hit that fishin’ hole today
She’d be packin’ all her things
And she’d be gone by noon
Well, I’m gonna miss her!
When I get home
But right now I’m on this lake shore
And I’m sittin’ in the sun
I’m sure it’ll hit me
When I walk through that door tonight
Yeah, I’m gonna miss her
Oh, lookie there, I’ve got a bite
Now there’s a chance that if I hurry
I could beg her to stay
But that water’s right
And the weather’s perfect
No tellin’ what I might catch today
So I’m gonna miss her
When I get home
But right now I’m on this lake shore
And I’m sittin’ in the sun
I’m sure it’ll hit me
When I walk through that door tonight
Yeah, I’m gonna miss her
Oh, lookie there, another bite
Yeah, I’m gonna miss her
Oh, lookie there, I’ve Got A Bite
(P.s. I know these links may give the impression I only listen to country music, not so! But I do find the lyrics are often about relationships, so they are a red pill natural.)
Maybe not “red pill” exactly, but a rejection of the blue pill:
Open Hypergamy
catchy…
Girlwithadragonflytattoo,
I think that was a fantasy for Average Jane. That she can go through male tens at the rate of one per month would qualify. I don’t think female tens pull this.
Now, if it’s hypergamy you want, nobody sings it better than Bonnie Tyler.
Not really red pill but sort of and funny in that fucked up truthful sort of way
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5f9mjS8gHhQ
Chicks don’t want heroes. I have a shit ton of medals, a couple pretty high up, never meet the girl who got wet for em.
Sfcton,
I am getting a little tires of hearing what doesn’t work with women. I think, in my lifetime, everything has been eliminated. Nothing works.
Ok, I get it.
@ fuzzie not much works for women either, not that most see it. Not that it makes this any better. If (almost) nobody is happy and if it’s not working for most, you would think something’s gotta give, right?
In other news my fiancé did a 360 this weekend over a pretty minor and fixable thing, so I kinda give up too. All I can soothe myself with is this thought: better this than a divorce. But it’s devastating even so. Commitment is nothing anymore. It is temporary at best. I give up, despite my best efforts it still eludes me. Cat lady ahead…
Redpillgirlnotes,
I am sorry to hear that, truly. Without knowing the details, I hope that with a little time to himself, he’ll come around to seeing that he’s better off with you than by himself. In any event, I don’t think that cats are in your future. You’re too boy friendly.
@ fuzzie thanks, I truly doubt it but we’ll see. I don’t want to go into details or bad talk. I hope we work things out yet and that maybe it’s just cold feet or something. I honestly don’t know what to make of it and am quite confused. Time will tell.
Lots of things work with women fuzzie, just not th things people think or where taught.
Men think if other men respect you women will too but women don’t do respect. They respond to stimuli at a much more visceral level. In this case women simply don’t know/ don’t care because the chain of events are to far removed. One of my medals gets me drinks every veteran bar I walk into but my ex showed and pronounced lack of…. well anything. Girl#1 asked me about thd military stuff on my walls and did her best to act impressed but none of it sunk home with her until the problems we had with some of our local vibrant youth. Even then it had to be a .more extreme version of such trouble since issues with the local diversity occur weekly.
It is what it’s and how they are programmed Fuzzie. Nothing to get bummed about.
Think about it like this; 700 years ago it wouldn’t have been a piece of cloth and a shiny do-dad it would have been wealth, fame and public status. Today it’s a quite ceremony, handshakes and status among men who live very separate lives. Makes sense now don’t it?
I commend you darling for not spreading your bidness.
Sorry to hear of your difficulty, Bloom. But I’m glad you sound resolute, and careful with your personal integrity. If his response was capricious, then he’ll figure it out and return, if you let him.
😦 Oh no Bloom! I’m so sorry! I hope he does return – it sounds like he’d be crazy to walk away from you.
Thanks dragonfly. I hope so too. I am trying to keep a stuff upper lip, trust whatever will be, will be. It’s likely a Mars/Venus communication thing. As much as I love him and want to be with him, another part of me says if it’s not going to work, better for it to end now than to find that out after the wedding.
Sorry, Bloom. 😦
I agree it’s better to find out earlier than later though.
I sure hope everything works out for you two.
((hugs))
@ Liz, thanks. Me too! Things are getting a lot more real as we start talking steps to merge households, including prepping his home for sale, remodeling mine (he’s a bit OCD and wants to do all new carpet/flooring/paint/etc. stuff I have lived with but it does badly need doing.) I suspect the financial risks and realities are playing a role, starting to feel more real, it is scary for me too. Getting married is indeed a risk and we have both been there done that, taken the divorce hit financially. I suspect this is a big part of it although the issue at hand is not that exactly. Maybe the issue behind the issue? But I’m really not sure and he’s not talking so I am just giving him space to figure it out and am waiting to see what happens.
That makes sense! And I could only imagine, going through a divorce would make everything a little more intense during a stressful time like that. If ya’ll do work it out (I’m thinking ya’ll will 🙂 ) things like that – communications issues – will get easier to work through as you both figure out a pattern of communicating that works. Trust will be built up stronger (I believe anyway) once you’re married.
Redpillgirlnotes,
Given that you’re confused, you’re innocent. I think it’s cold feet. He’s moving into your frame. It’s your house, your business, your daughters. If it all blows up, he has no fallback. That is a big leap of faith.
Anyone else having trouble posting comments. My browser, IE9, is freezing and has since this morning but only here.
Yes, Fuzzie, that is a big leap, and I know that it is. He decided to sell his house, there is a 10 acre empty parcel next door to mine that he plans to buy, lines up perfect with mine now and would add more than enough room to grow the farm. He would like to build a home on someday, so we can move out of the old historic one, open it to the public and include it as part of the business, and into a modern one. The idea was that will be in his name, so he has that property and I would have mine if anything should happen. But agreed it is a huge leap of faith and there’s a long way between here and there…maybe it is too big of a vision, but again it’s been all his…I am the more cautious one, not wanting us to stretch ourselves too far, take on too much.
Redpillgirlnotes,
I think what he needs is a backup plan that he can fallback to if everything turns bad. This should give him a sense of security.
Redpillgirlnotes,
For your three year old.
I agree fuzzie!
And at the same time fuzzie, what we usually fear or plan for is often not how things roll, while some other thing takes one by surprise. Living is a risk. Loving is a risk. Living and loving are IMHO kinda the whole point. I know, very Pollyanna, plus easy for me, a girl backed by a FI culture, to say….I do get it.
Speaking of the FI and the judicial system, another red pill tune!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-p0zn3PijY
She Got the Goldmine, I Got the Shaft
Jerry Reed
Well, I guess it was back in ’63,
When eatin’ my cookin’ got the better of me,
So I asked this little girl I was goin’ with to be my wife.
Well, she said she would, so I said, ‘I do’.
But I’da said, ‘I wouldn’t’ if I’da just knew how sayin’ ‘I do’
Was gonna screw up all o’ my life.
Well, the first few years weren’t all that bad.
I’ll never forget the good times we had,
‘Cause I’m reminded every month when I send her the child support.
Well, it wasn’t too long till the lust all died.
And I’ll admit I wasn’t too surprised,
The day I came home and found my suitcase sittin’ out on the porch.
Well, I tried to get in, she changed the lock.
Then I found this note taped on the mailbox that said,
“Goodbye, turkey. My attorney will be in touch.”
So I decided right then and there I was gonna do what’s right
Give ‘er her fair share but, brother,
I didn’t know her share was gonna be that much.
She got the goldmine, (She got the goldmine,)
I got the shaft. (I got the shaft.)
They split it right down the middle,
And then they give her the better half.
Well, it all sounds sorta funny,
But it hurts too much to laugh.
She got the goldmine, I got the shaft.
Now listen up. You ain’t heard nothin’ yet.
Why, they give ‘er the color televison set.
Then they give ‘er the house, the kids and both of the cars.
See.
Well, then they started talkin’ about child support, alimony,
And the costs to the court.
Didn’t take me long to figure out how far in the toilet I was.
I’m tellin’ ya, they have made a mistake.
‘Cause it adds up to more than this cowboy makes.
Besides, everythin’ I ever had worth takin’ they’ve already took.
While she’s livin’ like a queen on alimony.
I’m workin’ two shifts, eatin’ baloney.
Askin’ myself, “Why didn’t you just learn how to cook?”
They give her the goldmine, (She got the goldmine,)
They give me the shaft. (I got the shaft.)
They said they’re splittin’ it all down the middle,
But she got the better half.
Well, it all sounds mighty funny,
But it hurts too much to laugh.
She got the goldmine, I got the shaft.
–instrumental break–
Well, she got the goldmine, (She got the goldmine,)
I got the shaft. (I got the shaft.)
They split it all down the middle,
And then they give her the better half.
Well, I guess it all sounds funny,
(Ahh, ha ha ha)
But it hurts too much to laugh.
She got the goldmine, I got the shaft.
Heh, heh. Hey, Jimmy, I got the shaft.
But I don’t have to worry about totin’ a billfold anymore.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
I let my wife tote it.
I’m gonna be carryin’ food stamps.
You get it, judge?
I’m gonna be indebted.
That’s my money.
Huh?
Contempt of court?
What do you mean I’m in contempt of court?
How about Bitch Came Back by Theory of a Dead Man?
Redpillgirlnotes,
Things are too quiet. I am going to presume that nothing has happened. May I suggest that you call him and tell him he’s missed?
I don’t know anywhere near enough about the situation to offer any advise.
But if he asked for space, calling him might come across as annoying and needy.
Sorry to leave you guys hanging. We have been in touch via email so its not been total radio silence, but we have not had a chance to *really* talk. I suspect that won’t happen until this weekend when the kids are not home. So far I can’t really tell if he’s leaning one way or another. Been doing a lot of thinking myself, too. And keeping busy spring cleaning, may as well put the restless energy to good use…
Redpillgirlnotes,
Please keep us osted. We care. While my advice is contrary to Liz’s, I didn’t want to see your beau slip away. He must really like you. This would never had gone as far as it has if he didn’t.
Agree with Liz.
If he hit the brakes, he’ll need to change his mind independently, and after you two have had a heart-to-heart. And you’ll need to decide if you think this is an anecdote, a one-off — or an emerging pattern. From what you’ve disclosed, this has been a whirlwind romance, a whirlwind engagement, and now a whirlwind disagreement about something. Well, there’s no reaping the whirlwind. Keep calm and put bacon on. If you are going to date once- or twice-divorced men (who have brains and a functioning memory), you’re going to have to deal with the abyss that is marriage for men.
And not just intellectually, because I know you grasp things intellectually. Perhaps he caught himself staring into the abyss, or one of his friends just pointed it out. One of the commenters here thinks being “optimistic” is a solution, but it’s not. It’s folly compounding a social deficit that masks dysfunction. As Nietzsche noted, when we stare at the abyss, it’s good to remember that the abyss stares back. Whether or not we attempt to convince ourselves it’s just a dip in the road.
My last unsolicited observation: he sounds like an overachiever. As such, he may have outlined a property and integration plan that he thinks is a good idea over a period of time, and in overachiever fashion decided to beat his own plan. Or he may have been dealing with his latent fears by burying them in extensive planning.
Please excuse any off-base suggestion. I wish you both well.
***
Also, and on a lighter note, *spring* cleaning? Yikes, it is 6F here. I shoveled more snow this a.m., and I forgot to plug in my truck last night so the fuel gelled. I would guess you already have crocuses peeking out.
I think that you are on to a lot of what’s going on BV. It’s getting more and more “real” as we move toward a combined future, and we are getting close to some point of no return things, like him wanting to put his house for sale w/i a month. To add fuel to the fire, he contacted the owners of the property next door, they called yesterday and said we have first right of refusal, but if we don’t buy it they are selling it, which kind of means we either do it or the opportunity is gone, not great timing. And the price is 50k higher than we had hoped, and they will carry the contract but want half down. So that’s more reality, and pint of no return. He is an overachiever for sure. At work he manages three departments and 75 people. And somehow still hardly breaks a sweat. So he also has big plans for us, and the business, and the future…I am the one who is wary of taking on too much in our first year, getting in over our heads. I believe he can do it, I am not as sure I can! I am a hard worker and have achieved much, but next to him I look like a slacker! He is “go, go, go” and I am more the type to line up all the ducks then go. Like finances, for example, I don’t see how we will be able to swing all of this big plan. Not that it wouldn’t pay off once it was all done, easily with increased weddings and increased sales, not to mention increased long term value. But I can’t see how we will manage the $ part between here and there. I am sure he’s got a plan for that and at work, that’s one thing he does — manages budgets. He can scan a whole spreadsheet of numbers and pinpoint the one thing on the whole page that doesn’t jive in seconds. Anyway, maybe my hesitation to “go big or go home” has planted a seed of doubt in his mind, that maybe I either don’t believe in him (not true) or that I can’t keep up, or something… Not sure.
And yes, things here are in bloom, the crocus have already come and gone, daffodills in bloom now, and plum trees, and things are budding out. It’s very early, usually that’s happening around Easter! I am hoping this false spring isn’t followed by cold weather, or my fruit may be a flop this year, and my grower won’t be any better off either. Not good….even tho the sun sure is nice!
@BV … There is nothing dysfunctional about being an optimistic person. A healthy marriage (which I’m sure none of the divorcees here had, so by default, your jadedness and contempt results in pessimism) involves learning patterns to communicate effectively.
Some of the most successful people in the world were optimists. Pessimists are the dysfunctional ones that no one wants.
To me, the heart of pessimism is giving up on life, having no faith to endure trials life brings, having no joy – the epitome of it brings death (suicide). That is what pessimism speaks into the heart of another person, whether you want to believe it or not.
Optimism is the faith in life – it blooms desire and growth – continual seeking of beauty in all things. It births LIFE.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
Albert Einstein (an optimist)
Realistic pilots live longer. Realism is not “pessimism.”
We just proved Deti’s theorem. Best wishes. BV out.
I think you’re comparing realism with a kind of lunatic optimism. You’re saying that the optimist doesn’t plan ahead, know how to fly instrumentally, doesn’t take caution in their choices. To you, an optimist is an idiot. It’s not complete opposite sides of the spectrum.
An optimist that has logic (not lunacy or naivete), has courage to take risks – a realist that leans more toward pessimism moves around in life in an abated fear that motivates everything they do. They resist change because it goes against their safe security (even if they silently agree they’d be happier with the change), they back out of good things (like a relationship with Bloom) because realistically, how could any two people make a marriage work? It would have to be “mystical” like a unicorn, for it to actually work for them – a realist looks at the difficult work and says “no, I don’t want that, its too much work/growth/pain.” . That is how a realist thinks – they don’t believe in happy endings because 1) all the work in between that goes into creating a healthy marriage means it wasn’t “happy” at all times, and 2) they give up long before that because they lack optimism and courage to keep communicating, to keep trying, or to keep their motivation.
A realist reaps what they sow. They survive their flight. And even then, they conclude it wasn’t enough (closet pessimist – nothing is ever good enough for them) they still have other “problems” in life -surviving that flight just ensures they still have to deal with the “misery that is life”… No room for faith here, they only survived because of them planning ahead – nothing special or worth getting happy over. No joy there. And they continue in life with expected failures, and no real joy in success.
Nothing is a miracle with a realist, because to them, miracles don’t happen
It’s almost 80 here and I called in sick to ride
women get to be optimistic in a way men cannot afford.
@ dragonfly and bv, I can see it both ways. Optimism and pessimism can in many ways shape one’s life experience: if you expect good or bad things to happen, that is likely what will happen. But even the most optimistic can just have some plain old bad luck, or get kicked to the curb, or what not, just as the pessimist will still encounter good luck from time to time. Realism is a balance of both in my mind, realizing life is both good and bad, expecting both good and bad to happen, controlling the risk of good and bad when possible but also realizing some good and bad will happen anyway. I kind of slip and slide between the three. It is likely any of the three could go too far… Heck, when I start to think about marriage, and all that can go wrong, I can work myself up into a tizzy right quick. I can see how my fiance might too. Past experience as a predictor of future experience and all. BUt I also know people who were divorced who are now happily remarried, so that happens too. It’s not once doomed, always doomed. Those who never divorce and are happy, they are the fortunate to not know how sucky, sucky, sucky all that can be, for sure. I wish nobody ever had to go thru it.
@ ton, Good for you, from 19 the other day to 80, now that’s a heck of a change in your luck! Enjoy!
Yea I just find that (in my personal experience) people that look down on optimists, tend to call themselves “realists” while really they themselves are closet pessimists – and THAT is why they despise the optimist. It’s an ugly, snob-way of viewing people who are happy.
BV revealed his playing hand when he responded to your last post. Anyone could tell you were earnestly and honestly wanting to gain knowledge for yourself (really for what you could DO for your fiance), of what men truly appreciate from their women in a relationship. You had beautiful intentions, you truly wanted to bless your fiance with what he would like, but BV took your vulnerability, and made it all about how it wasn’t enough for him (the realist – closet pessimist – nothing is ever good enough… no matter if it your best efforts to show them you care). I know it sounds awful to point it out, but that’s because the attitude of the pessimist literally… stinks. It leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth.
Imagine if it were the other way, a man trying in earnest to find out what his wife would appreciate he do in their relationship? And her telling him that he should already know, and not expect her to have to do “all the work” (aka: for her to own her part in taking responsibility to acknowledge what she wants when he’s earnestly asking)? Women do do this… but it is wrong, just as the way BV chose (yes, it was a choice) to view your earnest post as missing the mark. An optimist would have used that opportunity to reveal to you what you wanted to know, a pessimist decides that the fact you had to ask, means that you aren’t good enough – that it wasn’t enough.
It’s ugly. And it reaps what it sows… frustration in relationships.
In our marriage, we have had times where we lovingly talked about what the other would like us to do – what they’d really appreciate, and we’ve used that OPPORTUNITY to learn things we didn’t previously know that the other person would like. That’s the way a healthy-minded person views that scenario. An unhealthy person takes that question and is angry or irritated that you couldn’t “read their mind” to know what they really wanted all along. Again, its the whole realist being upset that its a marriage with work and not a mystical, I can read your mind kind of marriage. They secretly want a unicorn, but are angry that they don’t exist (angry realists), they aren’t a “true realist” because they don’t accept the REALITY that you (Bloom) were earnest in your asking – that it came from a place of real love, that you can’t read their mind, and that it takes a optimistic viewpoint to take you up on your challenge and answer in vulnerability. Instead of being the optimist that creates their own opportunities (and gratefully APPRECIATES them), they’d rather complain that life isn’t perfect and that you don’t have the innate knowledge to meet all their needs. The angry realist rejects earnest people’s efforts.
I’ve seen many of these kinds of men and women while working in the field of science. They are usually atheists or “agnostics”/closet atheists aka… pessimists or “realists”/closet pessimists. They are the real “deficit” in the workplace as they have the possibility of hampering an entire team’s work ethic with their digging in the heels to be happy people. They are the most frustrating people to work with… I’ve been burned many times with these types – I once had to managed a team with 2 such people on it – they polluted the whole atmosphere with their refusal to be positive in life, to view their work as something positive. While I ultimately had some great positive effects on them, it was never enough – they were bottomless pits, and they made my life so much harder as each time I tried to make things better for them, they reacted like BV did to your post – my earnestness and genuine love and care for these people wasn’t enough. I can’t imagine being married to a person that refused to be happy, because they’re a snobby “realist.” Now I have no respect for that – it’s ugly and unnecessary in life, and I’m not afraid to call it for what it is.
it’s the opposite of how God would want us to be.
Despise…. wow that’s a mighty big jump to conclusion
@ dragonfly I get what you are saying, but I did not read that in bv’s post, that he was saying this is happening bc I just don’t get it. I have known bv for over a year and while he can be a curmudgeon at times, yes, I have never felt he had ill will toward me or anything. I think he truly does wish me and my fiancé well, even if he personally thinks marriage is nuts. That’s how I read all that anyway…guess I am an optimist? 😉
All that aside part of the issues we are having clearly are my own. Two years ago I went through an almost perfect storm – lost my income, my partner left two weeks later, I was a single mom, two small kids, a new business that was nowhere near profitable, local govt added regulations that added huge unexpected costs to continuing that biz. I had to rob Peter to pay Paul, do whatever it took, partially drain my retirement, the stress and worry of that day after day after day… It has done something to me, something not good. When I read descriptions of burnout, that’s the closest thing I can find to describe it. He’s frustrated by it, and so am I, but I have not been able to shake it yet. That’s not what this arguement is about, but it’s part of it I am sure. I don’t let most people in close enough to see it. Now he has, not sure what he’ll do w it. Hopefully not decide to walk, although I could see why he would.
More thoughts on the perfect storm, it was humbling for sure, but it also allowed me to see how good people can be. Countless people, some I barely knew, offered to help in all sorts of little and big ways. Like mowing my grass, helping out for free at my biz, gave me money, watched my kids, etc. it was incredible, that sense of community. I have got the ship back on tack again, still letting up on plane but it’s better every month. I guess if I survived that, I can survive almost anything. What kept me going was my kids, I had to show my girls I wouldn’t give up no matter what. But yeah, it’s taken a toll and I have yet to totally shake that. Our fight wasn’t about this but it kinda was, he asked me to do something and I hadn’t. He is go go go so it bugged him and so he feels I am not showing i am on board. He gave me an ultimatum. I balked. In my past experience ultimatums have not been a good sign. He read thst as i am not all in, even though i have legit reasons why I didn’t get it done (financial) I probably should have just got it done, figured the money part out somehow. I dunno, we’ll see.
Can I pay my alimony in optimism?
Yes… “despise”… I’ve read enough of the sphere to see that most of these men truly believe and have deeply internalized AWALT, and will brutally crucify any man or woman who says otherwise. I get that there is hurt, but it becomes hate rants and rage-filled personal attacks pretty quick… like their “despise” of any optimism is brewing just underneath the surface.
Are you capable of viewing the positive sides of life even though you pay alimony?
Yea… I thought so.
Redpillgirlnotes,
More details help. If it’s financial, I would think it would be relaqtively simple to resolve. If you held back based on fear, he needs to understand that.
Girlwiththedragonflytattoo,
I don’t know all the details that relate to Buena Vista and SfcTon but, from what they have said, they have been through the wringer.
Ease up.
I think that having never been married may help my attitude int that I haven’t been hurt to that extent.
@ fuzzie I explained the financial part, it did not seem to help, By that point he was already fed up w my lack of action. He’s been very cool as in not warm. I am trying to be hopeful but he seems pretty checked out. Time will tell… It’s hard, really hard.
Redpillgirlnotes,
I would like to see the two of you succeed but, this is beginning to sound like a “shit test” I don’t have all the info and this thread is too public.
When in doubt,watch an animal video.
@FuzzieWuzzie – I’m sorry – I just truly don’t like hearing or seeing people diss optimism. Realists are snobs deep down, they look down on optimistic or happy people – and that is offensive to me, because I believe we have a moral obligation to be happy.
Romans 8:28… And we KNOW that ALL things work together for the good, for those who love God. We have to believe this… and since I’ve encountered people like that before (that are realist snobs), that have been incredibly hurtful to me, it’s offensive to see it again – to be called “dysfunctional” because I choose to view things in a positive light.
My hubby was reading these and turned to me and said how I’ve been through so many things, and yet I still choose to be positive – and he loves that. Bloom proved in her sweet comment about how she looked back on that time of going through the storm, that she is an optimist through and through – and guess what? It’s attractive!
Realism was invented so that they could look down on people who choose to see the positive things in life. Realism goes against Romans 8:28 because it doesn’t believe that ALL things work out for the good for those who love God.
Sorry it may sound not so nice, but its truth. ❤
@FuzzieWuzzie those red pandas are soooo cute!!! Those are my dad’s favorite bears. ❤
Girlwiththedragonflytattoo,
The animal videos are my small contribution to making the world a happier place.
@ fuzzie and they do. I didn’t realize pandas looked kindof like cats (no offense to pandas)
Have you seen this one?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3ICW3bhtk
I have wonderful life and talk about it all the time but saying be optimistic doesn’t jive with how the deck is stacked.
Do you face the threat of alimony to an unfaithful spouse? For life? Do you keep way less then half you earn after taxes and alimony? Do you face the threat of being forced to pay child support for kids that aren’t yours? Having the courts back your ex wife’s play to keep your kids away from you? False domestic violence charges? A sexless marriage? The higher chances of divorce for a second marriage?
Hells bells let’s be optimistic, not save for retirement and count on our optimism winning us the lottery
I have a wonderful life because I will never remarry. What I get to enjoy, I enjoy because I said no to remarriage. I get shot at for living so I am no pessimist but I understand the realities on the ground regarding women and the courts.
You can quote all the Scripture you want, but their was no Sky Six fire support during my marriage. Or the other millions of marriages that fail. The Good Book also tells us to count the cost before we start a project. Counting the cost, saying it’s a bad project and not starting it not a lack of faith or optimism.
GWTDFT, you have just proven AWALT, unable to see and empathize with men.
I do try to see men’s problems and empathize with men – its why I write primarily to women (trying to get them to see the male reality of things). I was writing to women before I ever found the manosphere – and I only found it because a MAN thought what I was writing lined up exactly with what the other manospherian people were saying. Since then I’ve had many men comment that I understand them and that they wish their wives understood these principals I was trying to impart.
I think I just got carried away with disgust at how Closet Pessimists look down on Optimists as being idiots without logic or caution. That is not Optimism. That’s what the Snobby Realist wants to believe (to justify looking down their nose), but viewing life optimistically does not in any way, have to be without logic or caution.
I do think men are wise to be extremely cautious entering marriage – I never said that the “solution was to be optimistic” like BV stated a commenter said. The costs are extremely steep, indeed, for men… I never said anything otherwise.
Well, I admire BV greatly.
I’d go on about that, but I don’t want to be too smarmy (beautiful writer, beautiful human, keen witted, Renaissance man extraordinare, and so forth…) and I hate it when commentary becomes overly solicitious and the poster comes across like they’re on the payroll…I line I’ve just about crossed above.
We all come to the table with different life experiences. I’m a realist, (a happy realist, but a realist) 🙂 my husband is an optimist (with a great deal of skill, but also luck…luck has saved his bacon on a pretty regular basis). Realism isn’t fatalism.
My 0.01 cent.
One thing that bothers me about the controversial aspects of the sphere (at least, the way it is viewed) and the necessity for anonymity here is the fact I don’t know how I’ll be able to read his published work, if and when he publishes. I’d very much like to.
Optimism vs pessimistic
I am pessimistic about a great many things in life because the reality of the situation
I am optimistic I will come out on top because I always have, in no small part due to never turning my eye away from ugly reality.
@ scfton I get that, I can be almost Pollyanna optimistic at times, but because of some of what I have experienced in life, I also have a very practical/realistic side. I know bad things can happen to good people, life can be random, unfair, and cruel. Like you I believe life is what we make it. Knowing the cold hard truth can make one jaded but it can also build strength and preserverence. I guess I am a positive cynic, if such a thing exists, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I don’t know if that’s good or not, but because of the anxiety footprint left by my father dying in a car accident when I was a toddler, I plan much further ahead than most people, and am always scanning the horizon for possible trouble. It’s likely hurt me in many ways, but it’s also served me well in other ways.
Meeting the fiancé for lunch “to talk.” Gulp. Wish me luck!
Right Liz.. I don’t think anyone needs to be one or the other, but the fact that a person chooses what they will be is huge. And I would guess its more of range instead of fixed points on a map… you can be a happy realist that thinks optimistically (happy) or an unhappy realist that thinks pessimistically. I agree with Einstein that there are only two ways to really view your life (people just say what they want, but generally fall into the two categories).
@Bloom, to me this describes an optimist: “I know bad things can happen to good people, life can be random, unfair, and cruel. Like you I believe life is what we make it. Knowing the cold hard truth can make one jaded but it can also build strength and preserverence. I guess I am a positive cynic, if such a thing exists, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.”
You don’t have to be a cynic (a person who believes that people are motivated purely by self-interest rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reason). To me, I try to believe in mankind’s goodness, yes, many fail, but there are still many good people out there. Good luck with your fiance.
Redpillgirlnotes,
I wish yu good luck too! It will all turn ou for the best.
I linked Kug Fu Bear Finds a Light Saber over at Spawny’s and addressed it to Yoda.
Thank you
Good luck, Bloom! 🙂
Lol Fuzzie, yeah I thought you might show that to Yoda, I loved how the bear was throwing it in the air while twirling it, quite the coordination!
Thanks Liz, I wish I could say it went great but he still is acting very distant, cool, detached. He listed all his concerns, calling some of them showstoppers. No solutions or ideas for how to improve things. And it was all me (red flag) Not very encouraging. It’s like overnight from caring and loving to distant and cold. I don’t get it. We are very different personalities, he is very logical, orderly, structured where I am a creative, intuitive, unstructured. We are both high achievers, but the processes are very different. This seems to be where he is sticking, going from adoring my differences and finding them fascinating to now they are grinding on him. Doesn’t feel good. I like me. I am not perfect by any means, but it seemed pretty conditional, now those same things he once liked are flaws (and they are actually both strengths and flaws, just as his personality traits are.) Not sure about that, it feels like it’s turning the corner to nit picking. I have suggested a few pre-marital counseling sessions, we’ll see. He may be done. I cried all the way home.
@ Liz I emailed him thanking him for meeting up and he said he felt I was so distant and that he missed me! Maybe we both have our asteroid shields engaged??? Mars and Venus? Time will tell. I replied I felt the same and would like us not to feel so distant, too! Maybe there is hope.
And now the men here can see women waaaay over think things, surprise!
Redpillgirlnotes,
I’m sad that it didn’t resolve over lunch but, you did mention a reason for hope. It does sound like heart stopping cold feet for him. This is a rotten dating market to go looking in. Too much divorce and all the rest of it. I can’t think of anything to tell you. He’ll have to work this out himself. 😦
My guess darling is…. it revolves around the break neck speed of things but what the hell do I know? Plus I have been drinking since second breakfast.
Oh goodness Bloom – sorry I was so ridiculous making such a big deal out optimism/pessimism and yada yada while you were going through real heartache. So selfish of me 😦 So sorry…. Women overthinking things… yea I don’t know anything bout that!
So sorry, Bloom. 😦
@ ton I agree, I am fine w slowing things down. I’d prefer it actually. Whirlwinds are great and all, but you gotta be sure there is still a there-there after the storm passes. I still have the rest of my life, to live, one way or another…
From what I have read such things are not uncommon during an engagement. It is serious biz, getting married. I don’t take it lightly for sure, even if the legal structure is on my side. It’s not “let’s see” for me, it’s forever after.
Just don’t take it personal darling. That’s all the advice I have. What people do rarely reflects anything about us as individuals
And all this is why when I hear people say “go girl!” to women bored but not badly married, I want to be the opposite voice, divorce and starting over are no easier. A different path but with it’s own trials. If people can make their marriage of their youth work, best to do that. The more people go through, the harder it is. I have my baggage and he does too. Much easier at 23. My .02.
@ ton thanks, very easy to take it personal. I am not perfect, but I do mean well and try hard. Still so far it eludes me…
It may be time for a bear video.