The other day a post at Chateau Heartiste comparing the femininity of movie icons then and now got me to thinking about the beautiful Grace Kelly, which of course lead to a web search which led to the idea for this post.
But let me back up a bit, there is a red pill concept called “The Wall” which basically means the point at which a woman goes from young and attractive to not so much. At what age this happens varies by the woman, with some unfortunate ones hitting the wall in their mid to late 20s (usually due to hard living or bad luck genetics) while others may be nearly 50 before doing so (rare.)
What is taboo to say in society today (but women should know) is that a woman’s most valuable assets are her beauty and youth, not her education, money, or career (that would be men.) But many women today are putting off marriage to focus on education and career over family, not knowing they are literally missing their most potent years for securing her best possible mate. Only to realize at 35, the best men are mostly long gone and those left are shopping for a gal 10 years younger.
Post wall, women who find themselves single have a very high odds of staying so for life. Married women who are happily so will benefit from “wife goggles” which is a term that means her husband’s love blinds him to how his wife is aging and he still sees her as in her youth. You want those wife goggles firmly in place prior to the wall.
But back to Grace Kelly and her kin to illustrate this concept visually:
Grace Kelly got lucky with the wall
Her daughters Caroline and Stephanie, not so much (beware a heavy smoking, tanning, and a party lifestyle!)
Ouch. See what I mean? And these women are mega millionaire princesses. Even they cannot avoid the wall.
Now consider Caroline’s daughter Charlotte, now at the peak of her feminine power, consider her options for a mate right now.
She too will someday encounter the wall but for now she is in her absolute glory. As they say, don’t waste the pretty.
Don’t spend your best years in go nowhere relationships “experimenting” with stuff. If you do, you will miss the window to secure the best possible mate and future. Choose wisely. Treasure him and treat him well and he will do so for you. And be pleasant and have some domestic skills, too. Men like a daily supply of good food and clean socks almost as much as hot sex! Men who get all three? Happily married they be!
Let those who have ears hear.
An Inbuilt advantage is also bound to come with an inbuilt limit/wall. That limit can be extended well into the future though, if the advantage is wisely invested. Love is the only thing that really allows for that extension… which also requires submission because love is is a dominant force and can thus only be received through submission.
Rebellion only leads to a faster aging and a sooner death. But it’s never too late to change your thinking or renew your mind as it were, although you might have to learn how to be happy with less.
You are comparing a professionally done portrait of Grace with casual photos of her daughters. The differences should be obvious.
Everybody will age, and time is not kind to any of us, male and female. There is no ‘wall’ in life, unless you’re in Palestine. Or you look at life exclusively through the lens of sex and reproduction.
That marital advice sounds like a joke. Having been married once already and with a broken engagement recently, which duties would you say you neglected to perform that made your men flee? Forgot to wash his socks one time too many?
There is no magic ‘be nice and wash his socks’ formula to happy marriage, as you should know already, if only based on your own experiences. Life is more complicated than that, and so are relationships, in spite of red pill childish and solipsistic posturing. People vary in their needs and ‘one fits all’ formula does not work in life as neatly as magical thinking would lead you to believe it does.
By the way, been married 43 years.
@ human welcome. Something to know about me is that I have a rather dry sense of humor. So please don’t take things so literally. I realize there is more to marriage/love than clean socks, food, and sex. Nor am I saying women have no place in the world post wall. In fact that’s when I would say they are most powerful in a leadership way, as a matriarch. I do think strongly though that young women should realize about the wall and how could impact her life mate options. I wish someone had told me a lot of this stuff, I wouldn’t be single now.
Ps the broken engagement was a good thing. He was a narcicist. I dodged a bullet there.
I am curious if your husband might agree clean socks, a full belly, and hot sex could equal a happy husband?
Also, what do YOU think makes for a happy husband? Do tell!
Bloom I’m off to work. V-A-A-A-ROOOOOM 😀
Hope I don’t hit a wall on the way! The boss won’t be happy. The boss prizes my youth too much to put makeup on me! The boss is putting a hibiscus flower in my hair right now.. YIKES 😉
LOL
Love it, Bloom!!!! It’s so true! And definitely something moms should teach daughters while they’re in their house… so that they can understand to maximize their beauty while young, find a good spouse, and then grow into age embracing it rather than dragging their heels kicking and screaming (ie: wearing ridiculous tight mini-skirts or clothes for their age, dressing like teens etc.).
Maybe the women who age gracefully (like Kelly) understood age wasn’t something to fear? I don’t know…. ?
Lol Molly, aren’t you self employed? 🙂
Dragonfly, yep I think girls should be taught these things. In my youth women were encouraged to not focus on appearance, not out of vanity but out of fear of not being taken seriously.
It should be added that hopefully women are also adding character and wisdom to her value, inner beauty and a gentle calm demeanor is also beautiful and only enhances the deal.
Agreed too re post wall women adopting teen fashion, usually not a good look! One can be dressed w flattering fit and style yet modestly in a way that’s far more allure than lots of skin and curves.
Thanks for adding that!
Andreas, so true, attitude is big as well! Well said!
Btw. Isn’t charlotte darling? 🙂 those eyes! those lips! stunning. Grace Kelly’s granddaughter!
Princess Grace more than beauty she had.
Grace also she did possess.
Made her more attractive it did.
Gentlemen like women with grace they do
Everyone’s looks fade as they get old and wrinkly. I think with attractive people who take good care of themselves, they can usually manage to stay desirable decades longer than others. Now my question is, if a red pill man seeks to snag a young woman at her peak SMV, what does he do a few years later when that is over? Does he stay with her, does he cheat or switch her out for someone better looking?
BTW, about how the Manosphere understands “the Wall”. I believe it equates more to ticking biological clock than just appearance. A woman’s Sexual Marketplace Value (SMV) has a lot to do with her ability to procreate. Once she has lost that ability, or the ability is too much in jeopardy due to higher chances of birth defects or lower fertility, there is a big drop off in SMV, hence “hitting the Wall”. That a woman may also start looking more her age is more a correlation, not the cause itself. The age of the Wall itself is subjective, but most men place it between approximately 28 and 35 years old.
After hitting hitting the Wall, most men won’t even hazard a guess on SMV. Gentleman like me who actually prefer post-Wall women, for lack of need to procreate, have to arrive at our own subjective standards and measures of beauty. We’re outliers of the Manosphere, for sure, but traditional markers of aging like wrinkles are not necessarily a negative, and can be a positive in our personal Hot Babe (HB) scale. I definitely award bonus points for a good head of snow white hair.
Hi Ashley, welcome! As you may have seen, the “red pill man” is not a single entity. I’d avoid those focused on turn and burn mating choices and look for a restpected/leader style man with high potential (a young alpha) who will commit young. There are several such men in the sphere w long and faithful happy marriages. This caliber goes quick and is rarely let go.
Eccentric, good point, not all men desire procreation as a driver and so yes, they sort differently.
Yoda good point re a graceful nature, always attractive.
Captain Capitalism made an observation months ago in one of his posts. As long as there is a reason to appeal to the vanity of a woman, there is no wall. There are plenty of reasons to do that and few of them have anything to do with sex.
I think a lot of guys are looking at the “Wall” as some grand temporal retribution for women looking down at them from their high horses. It doesn’t happen. Very few people can acquire humility.
Clean clothes are nice too, but, food id very important..
I’d eat a gun if I spent 43 minutes with human, let alone 43 years
And I would note longevity does not equate succes
As is typical with women Ashley has confused being red pill with some version of morality. Red pill is looking for and finding truth. Nothing more, nothing less
As for women and the wall, I have done a lot more then the most of men, I didn’t put myself through all those trials and tribulations to bang old chick’s. High value men bang younger because we can and younger is normally better based on looks and attuides
Human: “Everybody will age, and time is not kind to any of us, male and female.”
That’s some major fucking wisdom there. It rocked me so hard I had to go to the library and make a journal entry, print it out, put it in a time capsule, and launch it into outer space. I was still shaking, post-launch, so badly with the brilliance of the insight that I drank a pint of bourbon and smoked a couple of Rothschilds.
Anyway, a young man needs to learn how to evaluate his girl’s aging. Hot at 25 doesn’t mean hot at 45; beautiful at 25 might mean beautiful and hot (given the right habits) at 45. Do have dinner with your girlfriend’s mom, and if you’re not interested in the mom, you’re not going to be interested in the daughter.
The two hottest women I’ve known in the past 20 years were in their 40’s. YMMV. Unfortunately, one is an ex-, and really, that’s not a good thing to contemplate or pursue (but shit happens). Perhaps Human would like to explain it all, given her 43 years of expertise. She sounds extremely insightful about these matters. The internet is a wonderful thing, what with all the insight being floated about.
Ashley and her stuff about men “switching out” their women: men are the committers, women are the switchers. The data on that are irrefutable.
Waiting with bated breath for Human’s insight on Happy Husbands. The tension is excruciating.
Since it’s time for me to go to bed, Bloom, just save yourself some time. Kindness, respect and good sex — and a man will be delirious, if not disbelieving in his good fortune.
@ bv that is interesting (said clinically not emotionally) about men being the committees. I would agree. Sure there are some men who “play the field” and “won’t commit, but as they say in red pill land those are the top 20% guys. That leaves 80% who are not like that. In real life I see women leave/end marriages more than women. Often capriciously so. What was once rare (divorce) is now practically expected. But it causes as many or more problems than it fixes in most cases. The grass ain’t greener… It’s AstroTurf. Not that women don’t get dumped or some marriages aren’t better off done, but somehow the fringe has become the middle… I believe a majority of divorce is in retrospect, unnecessary and unproductive. Working stuff out often seems harder but would have been easier…
* more than men…
I’d look at the girls lifestyle as well as her lady family members.
Does she smoke? Eat poorly? Run to much? Take care of her skin when she is young because she wants to age well?
I would hazard a guess and say most top 20% men don’t play the field once / if they settle. Mostly because men are lazy
Bloom & BV:
Don’t talk about men generally when it comes to commitment. Alphas don’t commit–they maintain their options. Betas commit. Remember that there are three sexes–alphas, women, and betas. Don’t mingle alphas and betas in your thinking.
Ton, top 20% men may not play the field, but they keep their skills sharp and maintain options.
Lol at men’s laziness–before I can flirt with a broad, I have to twist my own arm and get my mind thinking along those lines, unless a broad indicates lots of interest.
Regarding lots of interest–was at a wedding this past weekend and danced with the bride’s mom and was amused to see her “in the moment” after dancing while also full of emotions from her daughter getting married–the mom couldn’t stop touching my arm, shoulder, back and kept chatting me up like she didn’t want to let me get away. I was lazy anyway, hah, and didn’t flrt. Her man wasn’t far away either.
We have to keep an eye on our women at weddings & funerals.
I agree with BV: “A young man needs to learn how to evaluate his girl’s aging”
On the flip side, a young woman needs to learn how to age well. At twenty-something, I pretty much ran around in (Mike’s) boxers and large tee shirts, and ked sneakers and kept my hair in a pony tail. I stayed in shape (the most important thing) but really didn’t do anything else. As I aged, I started dressing better and putting more effort into my appearance. A lot of women start to age and/or have children and decide that’s the time to let themselves go. And they never get it back, or they put their efforts into the wrong things. Wife goggles are a very good, very real thing. Mike truly sees me as he did 20 years ago.
Just to add, per the ‘lunch with her Mom’….Mike used Mom’s looks to evaluate how I’d age, but he sure didn’t use her personality. If he had, he’d have run away like a jack rabbit from a prairie fire.
Clean clothes are nice too, but, food is very important..
For a bear especially important food is.
But bears have clothes not.
Perhaps back scratching service instead good it would be.
Yoda,
Bears fur coats they have.
Bamer,
There are only two sexes.. Betas are essential neutered. They just get to pay for everything like the chumps they are. God is fine with this arrangement.
Age and time is unkind to everyone but at the same rate
A 20year old man is nit yet near his peak smp/mmp value. A 20 year old girl is. A 30 year old man is still rising, a 30 year old girl is declining in value. A man holds on to his peak value longer, women peak sooner and expire quicker
Just is what it is
And the smp/mmp has changed a lot in 43 years. It’s doubtful anyone married for that long has much to contribute or understands what single folks are rolling with in the here and now
Bears fur coats they have.
Lol that’s a good one Yoda! 😀
Like most things on this mortal plain, genetic influences are unfair. The women I’ve known who sustain their looks, whatever their genetic starting point, do it the same way men do: they watch what they put in their bodies, shake their bones, and develop a signature look.
This picture was taken when the subject was 44; she’d had no plastic surgery. She rarely drank, didn’t smoke, exercised 4-5 days a week, and kept the stress under control. Maybe I’m stupid, but she looks better to me than most college girls (all but the high 9s and 10s). It’s sounds like there are a couple of women here on the same plan.
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/105360314-eve-chilton-weinstein-during-32nd-annual-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=R4V%2FQay2ANwpmCZhkZDSEkpJJcU9WNR4ei9g9FdmvuGG%2B4PknfDioAg1TJxIvJNiuM8NC1Zfjll7PoeT7e8rZw%3D%3D
It’s sounds like there are a couple of women here, on the same plan.
***
Gamer, I don’t know any high-achieving, high alpha men who run around, but obviously there are subcultures (e.g., professional sports, cinema, finance, and politics where men do around — but still keep the divorces under control.) Therefore I reject your seemingly organic association of married-man alpha qualities with promiscuity or serial monogamy.
***
Liz, on goggles, I’m always surprised when I see pictures of my ex-wife, or see her directly, because the graven image I have in my brain is of someone much younger. I think this works with men, in reverse: I have a tendency, like a lot of guys, to pretend I’m still 29. Amusingly, I was helping my strength coach and his Dad a few weeks ago. I identify with the coach; I’m the same age as his dad (though closer to the coach in fitness level than the dad).
To Virgins, to Make Much of Time:
http://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/virgins-make-much-time
I might be crazy (and sorry Bloom… so off topic)… but I wonder if there are goggles for people we love. I swear I have mom goggles. I always think of her as she looked when about 40, and thought she looked like Cinderella. She’s in her 60’s now and sometimes it shocks me when I really really look or notice how she’s changed, because I still see her as 40 and so beautiful. Weird.
By golly you are right! Properly set with good, nurturing, secure mothering a woman achieves the “mom goggle” effect, too. To be the matriarch is not to be feared if the wife and mom goggles are set. But wo them, a woman alone wo a family to look at her w loving, rosy eyes? Well, that’s the drawback if it being all about “me” too long – a gal ends up all alone. Women should not aim to end up unloved and alone, our very nature craves and lives and breathes to build nothing but the opposite! This could be a whole other post. Embrace being a wife and mother, it is what a woman’s life who marries and has kids should be about! Yep, yep.
Gamer, I don’t know any high-achieving, high alpha men who run around, but obviously there are subcultures (e.g., professional sports, cinema, finance, and politics where men do around — but still keep the divorces under control.) Therefore I reject your seemingly organic association of married-man alpha qualities with promiscuity or serial monogamy.
Lol at your imitating a woman’s solipsism and reframing.
Having options =/= breaking one’s vows; flirting =/= fakking
Do you know any low-achieving high alpha men who run around? I assume that the wife doesn’t withhold sex often from a high alpha man. A beta might run around if the wife withholds sex.
Are men who are high alpha going to be high achieving? If a man invests his time and energy into his business, will he have much left to work on his attraction skills?
Let us not forget the music subculture where men run around. Lots of men are in local bands.
Bamer,
There are only two sexes.. Betas are essential neutered. They just get to pay for everything like the chumps they are. God is fine with this arrangement.
Betas get married. Some of them get sex from their wives. It’s a matter of contention whether alphas ever get married. Maybe men get married as betas and some of them alpha up?
OK, gamer, I’ll ignore you from now on. But please update us on your weekend dancing activities.
BV, I thought you were using dry humor. Oops. Bad 2 be beta butthurt.
Lol.
Speaking of genetics and aging…
A person who comes to mind with EXCEPTIONAL genetics, absolutely stunning woman in her youth who aged horribly due to bad habits is Bridget Neilson. I remember (never watched the reality show, but I saw before and after photos) she got a ton of plastic surgery in her early to mid 40s to show “improvement”. It wasn’t much of an improvement. I saw a photo of her at 50 online, espousing “how much younger she looked” than her age. I’d say she could pass for a well-preserved sixty-something.
BV: I mentioned this at Swithy’s but re your comment about “man googles”, Mike is going to spar with a young ‘un (age 25) this weekend at the base. It started just between the two of them but I guess word got around and now people will be coming to watch it, and rumor has it they are setting bets.
Someone sent Mike this video. 😛
That’s a great video, Liz. Go Mike. He has a huge advantage. The 25 year-old fighter pilot thinks a 45 year-old man is ready for a wheel chair. Hahahaha.
Rust never sleeps, but the kids think anyone 10 years older than they are is useless. I played my last alumni baseball game at 37, and went 3/4. At my daughter’s last college lacrosse game my football coach (50 yards away) recognized me and walked over and said, “Why couldn’t you be this big 30 years ago?”
I am squatting more now than in college, though, admittedly, I should be squatting more yet because I’m often hungover on MR day. I can live with it, considering the medical history.
Go Mike. Full report, please.
Go mike! 🙂
So my friend who’s wife frivorced him and ran off with some other guy but is still trying to destroy her ex so of course she can point to him as “a loser” she haaaad to leave (clap clap so brave!) would it be wrong for me to throw skittles in her driveway every now and then as a joke? Lol. What a witch. I will write a post on that one sometime soon!
@ Liz rumor has it Bridgette Nielsen did the Saudi escort thing after she got divorced. Maybe that’s why she looks so haggard?
Mike should win, cet. par. A man at 45 is near the top of his strength. A young man has the advantage of quickness and speed.
As regards women and aging, Mrs. Gamer has a few very fine wrinkles that show up when she smiles. No age spots, though she needs moisturizer and makeup to make her skin look its best. She has some small jowels, but those disappear when she’s horizontal. Gravity can be a woman’s friend. Mrs.Gamer’s face looks like it did at 35 when she’s horizontal. Mary Kay is amazing. (And let’s ignore boob sag here.) No wife goggles (or googles) on me, either.
Also, what do YOU think makes for a happy husband? Do tell!
I will; glad you asked.
BV mentions kindness, respect, and sex. He is right.
I’d add stability and predictability. Men do not like changes, particularly unexpected, in their daily lives and routines. They are creatures of habit.
Loyalty matters as well, a lot, but that is covered under respect.
They also like to be admired for their manly qualities. The good ones want to be heroes and, yes, save their damsels in distress. It helps for their damsels not to be too independent and capable of everything, because when that’s the case, the hero may feel redundant.
The heroic feats of damsel-saving should be acknowledged with appreciation and gratitude, but that’s also covered under kindness and respect (one hopes).
Clean socks are optional. A nice touch, but not a make-or-break one, not for good men.
Sincerely hope you will find happiness, Bloom — in marriage, God willing.
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The wall does not get us all. Its not that simple. I am 55, and I still get carded. Men hit on me all the time. but love does have something to do with it.