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attraction, battle of the sexes, break ups, commitment, courtship, dating, divorce, love, marriage, red pill, relationships, romance, sex
A commenter on a Red Pill blog I used to follow (Just Four Guys, which unfortunately is no longer online) once said something I think is an idea worth sharing, and one not shared nearly enough.
He told the tale of twice being on the verge of proposing, and twice changing his mind after having this conversation with his potential life mates:
Him: What are you looking for in a relationship/marriage?
Her: (She easily comes up with a long list of must have attributes, ways the relationship/marriage would benefit her, what she would expect from him, etc.)
Him: And what would you bring?
Her: (Blank confused stare, crickets…)
In both cases, he realized that she had not given any thought, not even in passing, about what she would BRING to a relationship, simply what she would GET from a relationship. And for him, that was a deal breaker.
So ladies, take heed. Next time you find yourself making a list of what HE needs to do, be, give, etc. (which by the way, often leads to feelings of unhappiness, lack, and dissatisfaction if you are making that list about a current partner, much less a dream one) try switching it up and thinking about what YOU could do, be, and give instead.
After all love is a two-way street, isn’t it?
Let those who have ears hear.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
bad health, heavy debt, pending lawsuits, snark, disloyalty, obesity, age
@ gamer, my you are in a cheery mood today! 😉
lol, actually I am…just a bit of humor noire…I’m still thinking about that red-headed girl and about the Croatian girl.
You mean Big Red? Who wouldn’t wife her up??? 😉 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRcgTgSnx54
First is sex (top priority!). Also good meals and watch his health and massage his feet if he likes. Keep the house clean and welcoming. I would get out of his space and not hog the house! Sometimes I would not bring enough as it is woman’s nature. My mum “Ezzy” taught me, eh. I’d keep loyal and trying. Now I must say Hi to spawny and then off to work I will ROAR ON MY BIKE! lol
He sounds like a very lucky man, Molly! And you are lucky, too!
Your mom is one smart cookie! https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2014/11/28/guest-post-by-ezzy-on-choosing-your-man/
I like the “vertical vs horizontal” model in the linked post by Ezzy. ’tis true, a strong sense of “vertical” affiliation over time…affiliation with a family, a military unit, even a long-lasting company…can act as an effective counterweight to strong “horizontal” pressures for conformity and fashion-following.
When famed management writer & consultant Peter Drucker was very young, he worked as an assistant to a wealthy Dutch banker, who lived in a large house with his nine “wives.” The banker, who apparently didn’t believe in birth control, also didn’t believe it was healthy for a woman to have too many children, so when that N was reached, he’d divorce her, marry another, and they would all live (happily?) together in the same house. (Drucker said he couldn’t tell the difference among them; they all seemed like the “regulation Dutch housewife” to him.)
The banker told Drucker that he had learned ***”the type of woman for whom I make a good husband”*** and saw no reason to depart from that pattern. Notice that he (the banker) did not say (at least as quoted) “the type of woman who makes a good wife for me,” but rather the other way around. Which I expect is relatively rare thinking in either sex.
Absolutely David! Ezzy had a lot of good things to say there. I am hoping I can be that horizontal influence in my girls, and future generations, even if I did not have that myself (my mom raised me to be a single independent woman! In the 70s I suppose that seemed to be the thing to do, but even she can see now the flaws in the plan and supports my Red Pill thinking ways!)
Another good point David. I think in general, at least in the U.S., we’ve been encouraged to be self-focused for far too long. Independence and self reliance are good traits, don’t get me wrong, and they were critical in those folks striking out to a new land where it was do or die. My pet theory is the way America was settled, and by people of likely a more adventurous and independent stock than those who stayed behind, still lives on today — in both good and bad ways. Thinking of the others, or the collective, doesn’t have to mean abdication of self. But in our culture we are prone to either/or thinking, rather than seeing one can be and do both.
I wrote an article similar to this topic a while back. http://thoughtcatalog.com/ashley-pariseau/2015/02/ladies-what-do-you-have-to-offer-in-your-relationships/
We have to cut women some slack here because in the narrative of “Men chase, women choose,” women haven’t really been encouraged to think about what they offer. They were brought up being taught that they are pursued by men that are working to prove themselves to her, not the other way around. However, times are changing and the more women demand from men, the more she should also have to bring to the table.
In my relationship I bring:
-Sex of all types
-Emotional support
-Appreciation
-Respect
-Strong friendship
-Gifts
-Humor
-Money/funding for our outings
-Ability to plan our outings
In my relationship I receive
-Sex of all types
-Emotional support
-Appreciation
-Respect
-Strong friendship
-Humor
-Company
It works for us.
For your readers, I was referring to the red-headed girl in my post.
This girl here is basically every woman I have ever met in my life in some way shape or form:
I love this. More women need this mentality. They’d be happier. I’d bring support and respect. I’d bring a willingness to contribute to my family, financially or otherwise. I’d bring emotional control. Not enough women bring emotional control. I’d bring love and time for his family, as well as mine. I’d bring compromise and acknowledgement that he’s the leader.
With Tarn always sex on top it is
Damn straight, Yoda.
I like it that way. 😉
Molly said the same thing though…
I’m honored that you’re only “picking on” me, Yoda. 😛 Lol
For sure Ash! Thanks for sharing the link 🙂
Sorry Gamer, thanks for clarifying! 🙂
Yoda,
Had you asked me, I would have put food at the top of the list, but I am a bear.
Craig,
Five minutes in was all I could handle. Big Red has her act better put together. Yikes!
I think that it was Rollo Tomassi who pointed out that , sometime int he 60s, Women became the “prize”. From that point on,the world had to conform to them.
The woman that will meet a man halfway is rare.
I like it, Bloom. 🙂
One thing to consider…it’s not unusual for a relationship to start out one way (considerate, thinking about his needs, ect) and end up another way. People tend to think about the other person and put on their best behavior when they are trying to entice. Quite often, it isn’t their “real” personality or behavior. That kicks in later, when they’ve grown “comfortable” and a commitment has been made.
Growing comfortable with each other should be a good thing but using that “comfort” and commitment to take the other person for granted is not.
The red-headed girl was warm and sweet and interested in me. Sings, plays guitar, and writes songs. I’d like to see her again.
Liz,
@ Liz very true, and sadly all too common. The “bringing” shouldn’t stop once a commitment is made!
Years ago, I heard of a test for that. Early in the relationship, pick an issue of little consequence and refuse to bend with the word “No”. If she goes through the roof, run away. Run very fast.
I needed training to cope with my own nature.
That is a good test, Fuzzie! Screens out the Type 3 personality disorder folks (narcissist, borderline personality disorder, etc)
I needed training to cope with my own nature.
If only more women like this they were…
Yoda hi! I can’t claim credit. I was very very lucky I had the right mum, eh! I would never have thought of it on my own, and she just trained me anyway. I was too young to remember when she started. Like my granny trained my mum and my great gran trained my granny, etc etc till it becomes our default. My mum is like it all the time so it’s all I ever knew at home. I’m not yet**, tho I’ll keep trying to be and will be when a bit older. **E.g. I still have some group thinks (I’m getting better tho)
Another twist on this OP: Sometimes a relationship is stuck in 4th and you want to hit the nitro and overdrive and see what happens. So a dramatic move is required.
Say someone you like is inept in relationships, mostly because she confuses feminist empowerment dogma with personal attractiveness and value. There’s some trauma to be factored in, like getting some people killed, but whatever.
She keeps saying “You’re the one.”
As mentioned, time for a game-changer. So out of the blue you say, “Okay, cool. I’ll follow you to the next station, provided I can get a job, an interesting job.” Understand, this means closing up the house and living someplace hot and unpleasant and not being very safe. But she can make a call and get you the job, if she wants to. Her response is to start crying and say “We have a lot to talk about.”
Then, oddly, she locks up and is hard to reach. That, of course, is her answer, but no reason for you to pitch a fit. It was worth a shot. You shrug and stop calling. This romantic idea that lives are constructed from intentional desire, bracketed by notions of respect, desire, and delight, falls prey. Falls prey to reflexive suspicion and relationship power plays. You make a life commitment and it’s perceived as a statement of weakness.
So fuck it. You stop calling. You ignore the streaming texts which are all of the “You can call me now” variety. And you’re up stirring some cube steak (hammered slices of eye of round) and eggs at 0315 and listening to Paul Desmond and reading Frank Conroy and smoking a great cigar and drinking Bustelo coffee by the pint and … the phone rings.
You explain, “If you said ‘I’m willing to move to [somewhere in the unfashionable rural upper midwest, which is where you are] and live with you and be yours alone’, do you think I would be hard to reach?”
The thought has never occurred to her. You had offered someone the rest of your life. She’s focused on a Hawt Weekend now. You respond.
“No, I’m not traveling to DC this weekend. I’m feeding pigs.”
“But it’s Valentine’s Day!”
Eh, if it’s Valentine’s Day, it must be “Do what I want!” day. This woman is panicked by her spinsterhood, and the clear and present knowledge that her career will *enforce* her spinsterhood. Her response to a proposal is to demand party-time at the Hay Adams, or at minimum the Intercontinental in Chicago. Adolescence appears to be permanent for many of our distaff side.
As Bloom notes, we live in a culture where the dudes bring the goods, or not. The babes are consumers, not equal counter-parties to the trade.
BV,
You bring up a good side point, very relative to the upcoming “holiday” this weekend. If a gal actually gets upset about her guy refusing to “celebrate” Valentine’s Day (or even cares about it at all, imho) run fast and run far.
@ bv — wow, that’s a prime example. I don’t know what more you could do or offer, strange she would then turn tail and ghost. Good call on not dropping everything to jump thru the “forget all that, let’s talk about how you’re going to make my Valentine’s Day dream come true!” hoops.
I hate to admit, but I used to get overly spun up about valentine’s Day hoopla myself (in my 20s). Many ended in unmet (unrealistic) expectations and a less than loving mood. Silly. And so counterproductive. Plus, the worst day to go out to dinner all year is Valentine’s, every place is overbooked, understaffed, and half as good as on any other night. It’s such a Hallmark holiday.
If people are just as good to each other every other day of the year, Valentine’s doesn’t have to be an occasion to “prove” anything. That’s my idea of a perfect Valentines Day these days!
Cheers!
Indeed Molly, it was great fortune to be born into such a situation. The gals in your clan got it right and played it forward. And I know you’ll take it the next leg of the journey someday, passing the same wisdom onto your own!
@ Tarn agreed. But if she’s romancing him, maybe offering to make him one of his favorite meals or do her part to create an extra special day, she may be a keeper! 🙂
RPG,
Did you say “favorite meal”? Oh, my!
Buena Vista,
When she calls back, tell her you have chartered a plane nd are going to the Bahamas with the pigs.
Kidding aside, it does look like fun.
Absolutely, Bloom!
“I hate to admit, but I used to get overly spun up about valentine’s Day hoopla myself (in my 20s). Many ended in unmet (unrealistic) expectations and a less than loving mood. Silly. And so counterproductive. Plus, the worst day to go out to dinner all year is Valentine’s, every place is overbooked, understaffed, and half as good as on any other night. It’s such a Hallmark holiday.”
I often wonder why some people get really spun up about holidays, and others not. I’m not so sure it’s necessarily (always) a matter of poor character as Tarn describes. Some people are just more sentimental about those types of things.
I’ve never been sentimental about holidays. Back when Mike and I were study-dating, I said if I ever had kids I would tell them there was no Santa right away, and we wouldn’t do the Christmas “gift” thing. He really thought that was out there and told me about his Christmas experiences as a little boy…trying to “catch” Santa and so forth. He was very meticulous and set up some pretty intricate traps. Those memories were a big part of his life, whereas in our home I had no fond memories like that. So, when we had kids we did it his way and I have a LOT of great Christmas memories now.
Anyway, memories matter. Not to say attention whoring obsession with holiday gifts and gimme are attractive traits there’s just a vast middle ground there and some of it comes down to personality. I can even see it in our kids. The one that favors me most never asks for anything. Birthdays, Christmas, doesn’t matter he never needs or wants anything. On the flip side, he’s excited over the smallest things. We often let the boys open one gift the day before Christmas and he once opened a package of batteries. He smiled brightly and said, “Are these for ME?!” with excitement. We let him pick another gift though. I’m pretty sure if it had been a lump of coal he’d have been happy and went somewhere to draw on the sidewalk with it, or something.
The reaction of BV’s paramour does sound juvenile, and strange.
But I’ll bet she’s never boring. 🙂
OT side note for anyone interested, I’ve been watching a period piece called Poldark which I’m really enjoying. It’s free streaming with Amazon prime.
🙂
I said if I ever had kids I would tell them there was no Santa right away,
Bad this would have been
Set you down a bad path it would have.
Next you would have claimed that no little green men there were
Perhaps BV’s friend stationed on Degoba she should.
Learn some humility she might
Just thinking further, I think a good litmus test as to whether a person is particularly “passionate” about life experiences (which might include holiday celebration/appreciation) versus “gimme”/”I need stuff”/ and “it’s all about me”
is just the way they treat others. A person might appreciate gifts and similar “surprises” very much but if they are the “passionate” type it should be refected by the things they do.
Stated more succinctly, people who are passionate about holidays/appreciation and so forth should be very giving, not just interested in receiving.
Heh, from what I can gather I think BV’s friend is about to be stationed somewhere kind of like Degoba, but with less humid.
humidity.
“Next you would have claimed that no little green men there were”
😀 Yoda.
I am glad that Mike talked you out of it.
Speaking of batteries, my Dad loved wind up toys and every Christmas he opened a box of all his favorites from Christmas past. It was a good tradition and fun too.
Interesting Liz, I would agree. It’s fun to celebrate, certainly no harm in it. except when it becomes a big s#it test, thats not cool. Enjoying Valentine’s Day doesn’t have to equal huge expenses.
It’s something I am trying to instill in the Bloomettes. Fun memories and meaningful gestures do mean a lot. I got my girls these silly cards that sing and do stuff and they were tickled to death. I got some candy and such too, but nothing over the top, and it’s all been sprinkled over several days.
Me too, Fuzzie. 🙂
“It’s something I am trying to instill in the Bloomettes. Fun memories and meaningful gestures do mean a lot.”
I agree Bloom (and also agree about the sh*t test).
Thing is…for a person like me it took me a while to understand why this stuff was important. I thought because it didn’t matter to me it shouldn’t matter to anyone and I think I was kind of inconsiderate (at first). In short order, I started to understand (maybe I was a bit of a feral child?) and Mike and I met half way (I am more considerate about holidays and he is more flexible on what to save as “keepsakes”…his mom still has all his tests from elementary school Good grief!).
@ Liz, I can understand that! I tend to be fairly sentimental, my beau is intj, like you. So sappy is not his language. Nor does he go on and on w the compliments. But I read up on the intj and learned they show don’t tell. He’s super good to me, unbelievably better than anyone ever. So he “shows” over and over how he values me, and that’s way better than empty flattery any day. 🙂 plus intj are fairly selective of the company they keep, so to be “in” is a huge compliment in itself!
I am infp, so the introverted and female version of Mike, basically!
That’s great, Bloom! 😀
Happy Valentine’s Day!
From the standpoint of a bear, I can’t understand how or why humans make things so complicated.
The video is G rated. Bears aren’t terribly good at kissing.
Aw, happy Valentine’s day, Fuzzie! 🙂
That was great Fuzzie! Happy Valentines!