Tags
alpha, attraction, bad boys, battle of the sexes, beta, blue pill, casual sex, dating, love, omega, red pill, relationships, romance, sex
In the fine tradition of Red Pill shiv master Chateau Heartiste, today we will play a little game called Alpha or beta?
The idea is to access, from subtle body language tells in photos, if a guy is Alpha or beta.
Today’s candidate comes to us via frequent commenter Ton, who shared a news article on the Alpha/beta handing out a flower to each and every girl (900 of them) in his high school for Valentine’s Day.
Ton writes:
“Here’s a guy who will never be laid; maybe he should pack up and move to that yankee city with the platonic cuddle clubs.”
So, like the girl I am, I immediately visited the Alpha/beta’s Facebook page to snoop and found some photos of him and the ladies. From this, I am not so sure his grand gesture has not made him a hypergamy target in the small fickle pond that is his high school. (Utah, need I say more?)
I replied:
“@ Ton I dunno, rose boy seems to have a blonde hottie admirer, click thru to his Facebook!”
In typical Ton fashion, he replies:
“As if likes of FaceBook etc equals being balls deep in said hottie?”
So, dear readers, let’s have a look. What do you think — Alpha or beta? Let us know in the comments, and why you think so.
And with his previous girlfriend (also a looker, I’d say. Possibly blondie before coloring her hair, although to me blondie looks to be a natural blond? Hard to say.)
What do YOU think, my friends? Alpha or beta?
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Stupid.
Alpha and beta aren’t innate, but to the guy in question, they can feel that way.
Say our young hero goes to college, and wants to go to graduate school. It would help a lot if he had some published research. So: he needs a professor to tag along with.
“How are you on lab work?” asks a professor, looking at him over the rims of his glasses like he’s something the dog left on the carpet.
Who is the alpha in this situation?
“Uh, by the way, when I was 17, I gave a carnation to every girl in my high school.”
“That’s, um…great, but…do you have any lab experience?”
None of this is to imply that there aren’t some high school girls madly crushing on him right now. There probably are. But…these are high school girls. They’re stupid, just like high school boys.
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/08/14/count-no-man-happy-until-the-end-is-known/
@ seriouslypleasedropit I would agree that Alpha is situational, and that the state of mind and status can come and go. I am actually not a big fan of the “Alpha = the ONLY way beta = hopeless LOSER” definition of these terms either, they are indeed overly simplistic. Thanks for commenting!
While the guy may look like someone who would be tormented all the way through high school, he is functioning as an alpha for two reasons. First, he is getting the girls and, second, pulling a stunt like that should crushed him with the girls. It succeeded. Alphas can’t do anything wrong while betas can’t do anything right.His status may be local though. Nine hundred flowers had to cost a lot of money. He may be the only son of the richest family in the county. That helps with girls.
True, Fuzzie — there may be other factors at play that made this work out ok for him, but the same move would normally (as Ton so rightly says) be a complete bomb for another guy. I’d say he’s doing something right to be able to pull this off…and admittedly even though in many of his solo FB photos not included here he looks like a complete omega — jazz hands and all!
Despite that, I am basing my Alpha judgement on the fact that these girls he is snuggling with in Facebook photos are quite attractive, higher in surface smv than him. But as we know with hypergamy, girls never go below their SMV rank, only above or in a pinch equal. Guys will go below, above, even, whatever within a few points because for men who he is seen with does not alter his SMV rank nearly as much as for a gal. Blondie is gladly going to a HIGH SCHOOL DANCE with him, in public, for all to see!
Plus, while female smv is largely based on looks (face, figure, grooming, style, etc) a man’s is based on a wider range of factors, looks being just one and often not the most important (which is why one sees the sugar daddy phenom of Anna Nicole and her 97 year old billionaire, for example.)
This kid would not be allowed by these girls to take such photos with them, much less post them on FB, if they did not perceive him as higher smv ranked than themselves. Women be like that — it’s not a right or wrong thing, it’s a “the way it just is” thing.
Just like men judging women by appearance is a “just the way it is” thing, as much as the fat acceptance crowd (and even most women) would like it to be otherwise. The 300 pound gal with the heart of gold…. fantasy that she will land a top ranked man. See: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/deluded-fat-chick-of-the-month/
(Trigger warning, don’t click on this while eating, and again Heartiste is in rare shiv-impaling form with the wordsmithing! Quite offensive, or could be considered so. Fair warning!)
Apparently INT death stare he has not
Gamma. That first photo (the way she’s looking at him and he’s not paying attention to her) was positive, but it went straight to cringe-worthy after that. He seriously needs to hit the gym and learn game. I’m guessing those girls are calling someone else to come over after he drops them off from a date.
He’ll probably get a good education and a decent job, be celibate during his 20’s and some woman will get her hooks in him in his 30’s after she’s changed lanes and climbed off the carousel. The sex will be great at first (before they’re married) and after a kid or two he’ll return to being an incel for a few years before she divorce-rapes him. He’ll cheerfully enjoy watching while she gets back in shape, buy her a new wardrobe and pay for having her tits done; thinking that she’s doing it all for him. When he gets served the papers it’s going to rock his world.
The worst part is this guy is probably so blue-pill feminist that he’d get his panties in a wad if anyone tried to explain the truth to him. Hand him a copy of “The Rational Male” and he’d probably make it about half-way through the first chapter before writing it off as a bunch of crap written by a misogynist loser. Because that’s what he’s been trained to do. And if he’s a good churchian he’ll drink the kool-aid of servant leadership and ‘mutual submission’ never knowing that his supplicating behavior causes his wife to loathe him and hold him in utter contempt.
This kid would not be allowed by these girls to take such photos with them, much less post them on FB, if they did not perceive him as higher smv ranked than themselves. Women be like that — it’s not a right or wrong thing, it’s a “the way it just is” thing.
Ummm… no. There are plenty of virgins out there with facebook photos like this, beta orbiters that get their photo taken with pretty girls they’ll never have a chance with. And plenty of guys “date” girls for months if not years and never get sex from them. The girls don’t mind him spending money on them but he isn’t getting any of *that* from them. The hot guy in the foam pool in Vegas on spring break? That doesn’t count. The older frat guy she met at a party? She was drunk, it wasn’t her fault. Her boyfriend? He’s a *really* great guy, but she’s just not ready yet.
A photo? There was a time when it would have been about a relationship but today the photo is all about *her* and nothing else. The real answer would be found on *her* facebook wall and seeing the photos she’s tagged in, plus the comments. That usually tells the real story.
I suspect you’re projecting here because you seem to be way too honest to callously manipulate guys like that. And keep in mind that the girls now-days are a whole lot more mercenary than when you were going through high school. The world has changed, toots.
Re: my assuming the girls are honest operators, could be Toad. Very well could be…
Artisanal Toad’s comments ring true for ordinary circumstances but, this may be the exception. He is appearantly succeeding with contemporary women, so hei si functioning as an alpha. That makes him one.
I do remember my time in high school. It was my best buddy who shagged my steady. I was lucky to get a hug at the door after dinner and a movie.
It’s funny, how decades later, you remember stuff like that and it hurts just as much as it did then.
OK, I am willing to concede that I am wrong and Ton is right. I have always believed that it is MEN who determine who is AMOG (Alpha man of the group) and women simply key into that, so if they guys here are saying beta/omega/gamma I will trust their judgement on that.
It is so weird how differently men and women see the world. Like carnival fun house mirror weird!
(((HUGS FUZZIE!))) 😦
Perhaps also the power of preselection is at work here, clouding my judgement as a gal? When I look at his solo FB picks, ewww, no. When I see the pics with him and the ladies, then he suddenly doesn’t look so bad (of course way to young for me, and all that, but hypothetically)
Fun house mirrors!
Call me jaded if you will, he may very well be an exception to the rule and have natural game. All bets are off if he’s involved in theater. Going by the percentages, I call gamma.
Fuzzy, if it taught you a lesson about what women are like, you’re better off that it happened than if it didn’t because you had your eyes opened. I watched something like that happen when I was in the Marines. One of the guys was “in love” with this bar girl (prostitute). He wanted to marry her and wouldn’t listen to anyone on the subject. When he asked the 1st Sgt. for the paperwork, one of the NCO’s decided he needed some strong medicine. Friday, payday, final formation before being turned loose on liberty. The duty roster was announced and lover-boy has duty until midnight.
The NCO that put him on duty then announced to everyone that he was going to go nail lover-boy’s girlfriend, but he’d try to get done with her before he got off duty to give her time to get cleaned up. Half the platoon was in the bar when he took her upstairs, where he spent the night with her (paid for long-time). Lover-boy gets there about 0100 and the mamasan tells him his girl is busy. A bunch of the guys were still in the bar and told him she was upstairs with his squad leader and had been for hours.
He got trashed waiting for her but finally got dragged home around 0400 before shore patrol picked him up. Was it cruel? Not really. In reality it was the kindest thing anybody could have done for him. A few of the other guys sampled the goods that weekend and he endured a lot of commentary about what she was like in bed, but on Monday he told the 1st Sgt to cancel the paperwork. He also stopped going out in the ville drinking and started taking correspondence courses, so it really worked out for the best for him. It had to hurt, but not nearly as much as she would have hurt him later.
Redpillgirlnotes,
Thanks. If you look at the poll, it is evenly divided. I still think if he is functioning as an alpha, he is, in spite of appearances.
Toad,
It has been decades and I still don’t know what lesson I am to take from it.
I would definitely place my best buddy in the alpha category.
Doesn’t spund like much of a best buddy to me, Fuzzie! (((HUGS)))
>I have always believed that it is MEN who determine who is AMOG (Alpha man of the group) and women simply key into that, so if they guys here are saying beta/omega/gamma I will trust their judgement on that.
Follow that as far as you can.
http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2012/06/keynesian-sexual-marketplace.html
A good question to ask is: did he lead men to do this thing. It sounds like the kid is popular with the ladies, but: who is his best male friend? (Ever meet that girl who says, “I hate girls, they cause drama”?)
The problem with relying on female acclaim to judge a guy is: game works, and do you really want to trust an opinion swayed as easily as that? Another way to put it is: don’t you have a female friend who is a good woman, but men don’t look twice at her?
Now, we’re kind of pulling the rug out from under you, because the assertion is rampant that, “Alpha is whatever women are attracted to, and alpha > beta,” and now we’re saying that’s not so. But, welcome to the internet. Its contradictions and learning galore!
It’s hard to tell from photos. Those might all be friend zone pictures. He doesn’t look very alpha to me, candidly. My thirteen year old is more alpha.
@ seriouslypleasedropit… Fascinating I find all this, even if the rug is pulled out! 🙂
Perhaps so Liz, he doesn’t look alpha to me either but I guess the photos perplex me. The affection *seems* genuine. Maybe I am super naive! Sigh…
@RPGN: “Perhaps also the power of preselection is at work here, clouding my judgement as a gal?”
Yes, I would say that’s the case. The guy IS NOT AN ALPHA but have seen this sort of confusion before. And ran into it myself in my old Blue Pill days. These attractive women are seen with this guy for two reasons: the ATTENTION they get and they know they are SAFE with him. Safe as in … this guy would never in a million years actually try to f*** these girls … if he did try … the girls would try to be nice to his face and makes excuses … but in reality would want to RUN FOR THE HILLS !!!
And that is actually kind of a shit-test. If this guy were to actually try to have sex with girls like that … a real Alpha would succeed … a non-alpha wouldn’t. Reality check: There is no way in hell that guy is or would be having sex with them. So he fails the Alpha test. So I’m with Ton on this one.
If there is this much discussion, it has to indicate that the principles are flawed. Alpha and beta are terms borrowed from studying animal behavior. There, the distinction is much more clear. The alphas have sexual access and get to reproduce and the betas don’t. In the manosphere, it is blurred.
Bloom,
Somehow, this post jogged that long dormant memory.
He’s very baby-faced tho not much younger than me. I voted omega which might be a bit harsh. The women posing with him are just groupies for the flower boy, here today gone tomorrow. I see by his eyes, he will not be a man’s alpha like the ones I know tho he might be a false leader.
(Ever meet that girl who says, “I hate girls, they cause drama”?)
Mrs. Yoda kind of like that she would be.
Being married to a Jedi enough drama for her it is
Pre-selection, like the force, powerful it is.
Untrained women use it OT bad effect they do
Interesting Rocket! Yep, could very well be the power of preselection at play!
RPG,
You have good powers of observation. These girls like being in physical proximity to this guy. Perhaps I had it wrong, can girls in high school be after a guy for beta bucks? We don’t have all the information.
@ fuzzie, the gal’s body language doesn’t look forced to me… It’s hard to judge from photos.
And as I mentioned before, I once worked w a guy who by all appearances should NOT have been a chick magnet (computer geek, not tall, not built, not stylish, not sauve) but he was dating TWO early 20s very attractive gals nonetheless in the office and they were literally fighting over him! Travis, I will have to write a post about him because it really made no sense but it was happening nonetheless! Tis a mystery…
That kid’s got Lambda written all over him. His wife and 3 kids will be shocked when he makes that announcement…
A Red Pill Girl wouldn’t troll the audience with photos of an obvious doofus, probably gay, collecting gay friendzone merit badges by spending money on chicks who think he’s an adorable little puppy. *That’s* the boy the girls will run to when some asshole tries to carjack her at the multiplex?
Seriously, Bloom. Really? What? Is this satire?
Next post: Andy Warhol: Alpha or Beta? He was awfully popular with girls.
RJ now that could be, and would explain girls feeling safe w him. Hummm…
You have a point BV. I was kindof playing devil’s advocate. True not the guy one would run to for protection, or … Ahem…
Buena Vista,
Andy Warhol popular with girls? Why did Valerie Solanis shoot him?
RPG,
You did mention Travis once before. From what you have said, do you think preselection may be a factor? That two women were fighting had to draw the attention of women from all over.
RPG,
You are not trolling and, certainly not on your own site. I am beginning to think that too many people are too dependent on stereotypes to inform their prejudices.
My thirteen year old is more alpha.
Does he resemble this guy?
Ok, ok…. I had not even considered the possibility that this guy is perhaps KNOWN to be gay, and so there fore he is the token “cool gay guy friend” to these girls, who of course would naturally then feel free to snuggle up to him and act coy and such, knowing he would never call him on it (plus I think many times girls see that as kind of a double dog dare — can SHE get the gay guy to go straight from her sheer awesomeness?)
I am hopelessly naive, clueless, and obviously not getting the memo. Ah well, I kind of like that about myself… I come from a bygone era where things were….um…simpler.
My thirteen year old is more alpha.
The green eyed one he is?
If so, proud I would be
Or I mean yes, of course it was satire! Ha, ha, ha. Gotcha! 😉
Um yeah…satire…that’s it. Sillies!
Utah is a special case. Young women raised LDS aren’t capable of standing up for themselves, especially not against the men in their lives. It goes against their religion.
Now this young man would clearly be beta in any other location. But in Utah, he showed he’s got capital and is willing to spend it on women. The line seeking his bestowal of an MRS degree (or more than one, if he is FLDS) would be forming rapidly upon the word being spread. Thus in Utah, he’s as alpha as they come.
Ok BV I have added another option to the poll and removed the restriction of only voting once so anyone who wishes can change their vote! 🙂
Fuzzie said:
“…can girls in high school be after a guy for beta bucks?”
Yes. My high school girlfriend (who later dumped me for HER girlfriend) was only running about with me so that I’d take her to the prom. There was never any hope for getting any from her!
The surprise was going to be on her. I never had any intention of taking ANYONE to the prom.
I like Blurkel’s insight. Combine that with my suspicion that he is born to wealth and we may have someone who is high on Donalgraeme’s PSLAM scale.
alpha and beta isn’t innate? aloha is only situational?
is this the comedy hour?
Over the 24 years of kicking in doors and shooting brown skin people in the face I meet countless men who were mean among men but betas or worse around women
They two spheres are not the same; they certainly can overlap but chicks are likely to be wet over losers most men despise, like so,e semi fag pop singer and women are likely to despise a man who is well regarded by men because of his high character
If chicks grooved on the sort of guys men like and respect, betas would be held in high regard and there would be no man o sphere; if chicks fucked dudes who did limp shit like hand out 900 flowers, betas would be popular with chicks and there would be no man o sphere
These reminds me of an officer I knew who thought he was big pimping because he liked to give chicks those 6 foot tall roses when he was feeling spry…. and then it would be the 90 day count down to them spreading for a new dude.
long story short, if beta shit worked like the flower gig, then we wouldnt be here
Ton, you never fail to break it down to the basics. You are right, once again, like always! And yes, I did say that out loud! 🙂 Well done!
That is strange, as you say, how guys could, say be fearless in battle, then fold when facing the ladies.
Also true re: we wouldn’t be here if men who deserved respect from the gals were actually getting that, and guys who don’t weren’t.
This is all both simple and infinitely complex. I am not sure I really get it, despite all this time, but I am trying to. 🙂 The male brain is SO DIFFERENT. What seems obvious to you all, well it is not as clear as day to a woman! And maybe vice versa?
Seriouslypleasedropit @ 9:56 I finally got a chance to read the article you linked to. YES!!!! 1000 times YES! That explains sooo much! Thanks for sharing that 🙂
Anyone who hasn’t read it yet, highly recommended!
“Utah is a special case. Young women raised LDS aren’t capable of standing up for themselves, especially not against the men in their lives. It goes against their religion.”
That’s a good point, Blurkel (and welcome back, btw…hope you’re feeling better) 🙂
Mike had an anecdote a while back. He was speaking with a (former) LDS woman in a bar and she said she could pick out the women who were Moes. Then she started pointing to this one, that group. Mike thought that was interesting, but he wanted to know how you could tell. She said to go up to them and ask, “Do you choose the right?” and see what happens. He said the response was REALLY obvious. “YES! Yes we do!” they said, all giddy that THIS guy was Mormon too….
Funny how my YES yes comment was made right after Bloom’s YES yes about something else. Maybe I was influenced subliminally? Human psych is strange. Even my own. 😛
I have a set of non typical lifestyle choices which gives me a clearer view based on wildly differing experiences
Part of peoples problem is they have not adjusted their thinking to the current situation
At one point in time, when women didn’t much of a say in such things, it is likely that men did pick the alpha of both groups ( for lack of a better phrase)
Now we have this rather confusing situation because men were weak and stupid, foolishly allow women to have a say in the matter, and women fuck up damn near everything while at the same time peoples thinking have not changed to the tactical reality of the battle field
@ Liz, I don’t know much about lds. What is the significance of the question? I wonder how the gal could tell by just looking? Very interesting!
@ ton this is true, life has changed radically in the past 40 years (5 even!) and our brains are largely operating on info from pre history. I do agree w the article that the old rules still apply under the surface, and in a when shtf scenario, would be right back in play. Perhaps bc of your work, and actually seeing those shtf moments, civilizations and regimes collapsing, you get this better than most?
No idea on either count, Bloom. I don’t know how she knew (but she was raised in that community so it’s probably a bunch of subtle observations that go into the bid picture…kind of like I can tell when it’s an American speaking Italian even if their Italian is very good and they’d “pass” for most people).
Apparently “do you choose the right?” is code for “I am LDS”
While awake with insomnia last night, I was able to snoop my way from his FB page to Blondie’s. Based on info there, these two are a couple-couple (at least on the surface.) Comments like “Such lovebirds!” and “Awww, you guys are so in love” and such. Blondie replies with enthusiasm, now whether that is bc she feels so or bc she’s getting validation-feelz, hard to say.
Mental note: Social media privacy settings folks, lock that stuff down tight! 😉
OT anecdote, we were in a bar in Sardinia with my Italian cousins and the waitress started telling us about the place (30 bucks a drink, even if you were drinking water, crazy expensive but famous people went there). As she left I asked her in english, “Where are you from?” It was obvious to me she was American, but even my Italian cousins couldnt’ tell.
Liz,
The tin foil in the froggie helmet must be why you are getting mental messages. That or you’re psychic. Didn’t you have another story about Mike? Next, you’ll say I am thinking about food.
Hee hee Fuzzie. Must be. 🙂
Farm boy: I just started reading up and saw the image. LOL! Too funny.
This thread does have me twisted up. I am very much leaning to blurkel’s explanation. Setting up house with a rich man’s son right out of high school is a very old standard reproductive and lifestyle strategy for small town girls.Add in that they are Mormon and it further complicates the issue. It would not surprise me that these girls have been told and seen it demonstrated that riding the carousel is a trip to nowhere.
This story made the news because is falls into “Man bites dog” category.
Finally, red pill wisdom is not absolute or dogmatic. It only has to work a majority of the time to be considered true.
Having said that, flower boy is functioning as an alpha.
This man is clearly effete.
Bloom
Let’s say a rose costs $1 each. Think of the social commentary about Sir Galahad buying up 900 roses so that no girl at school goes without at least one flower. Lots of girls are going to think that she deserved all $900 without sharing with anyone else, and some will try to be the one with the monopoly. He ends up with the best available girl.
The trick will be can he keep her. The fact that he spent this much once is seen as proof that he can do this anytime. If he can’t, she’ll be back to alluring the jocks with pro prospects.
Liz
Thanks for the “get well” wish. I am improving, but pneumonia takes a while to clear. Still working on getting healthy so I can get back to posting more than a few comments.
Bad boy types do the best when the wheels fall off
They are the ones most willing to engage in risky behavior like the black market that pays off, the ones most willing to fight and steal and semi organize gangs that offer income/ food/ protection. Plus they have those sort of connections and affiliations formed before hand.
the dumb ones take that to far the smarts ones play it right and do better then the rest.
again with the face book…. really it doesn’t tell us much. Is he a beat orbiter and all that is playing into his beta game trying to encourage her to fall for it? Do the people on the inside know its a BFF? Are they having sex or is he a safe boy friend for her parents while she is fucking the local drug dealer?
Way to much being read into such small amount of info
Just read the link that seriously had linked to and I had actually read that before. No-maam, bonecracker have been around for a long time. And I actually agree with that article AND disagree with much in the manosphere regarding the definitions of Alpha/Beta/etc. Much of the sphere considers Alpha pretty much a Notch-Count and anything that leads to increasing your Notch-Count to be Alpha behaviors. I think that’s just not true at all and the no-maam post is much more accurate; To repeat its here: http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2012/06/keynesian-sexual-marketplace.html
Liked BV’s comment that the dude in the pics is Gay. Didn’t think of that … one of the reasons that WOMEN LOVE GAY MEN … is because they are SAFE. They don’t have to worry about a GAY MAN wanting to have sex with them … which was my original thoughts on the pics … the reason the attractive women are with a guy like that is because they know its SAFE. The guy has no nads and would never actually want to F*** them … so they suck up the male attention and don’t have to do anything in return. WIN-WIN for them. Or maybe he’s just GAY, lol.
Assuming that he didn’t pick daisies from a local field, he paid for 900 flowers. How much do flowers cost in the US? Even if they are only $1 each, he has sent the message that he has $900 to burn on a gesture. Either he has money to burn or his parents have. That’s a strong message of wealth.
Secondly, this gesture will have afforded him an amount of temporary celebrity.
Both of those are factors that appeal to a certain type of girl.
I suspect that the girls in the photos are there because of the social position it gives them, at least for as long as anyone remembers his grand gesture.
Love your blog btw.