For those of you from generation X, like myself, you may remember this very popular Van Halen song:
It’s a somewhat common cultural norm to assume that teenage males would be more than happy to get it on with their “hot” teacher, while the same age girl having a sexual relationship with a male teacher (even a “hot” one) would automatically be viewed as child molestation, always.
Hummm…let’s think about this…
A 15-year-old male high school student in LA who had such a “relationship” with his female teacher recounted this about the experience:
Yeh and the student first had sex when they went to his place to play video games, the student claimed.
“She started rubbing my face, calling me cute, handsome,” the teen told KTLA. “She started kissing me and from there we had sex.”
The teen said the summer affair didn’t turn out to be his idea of an exciting romance.
“Eat, go somewhere, come back, have sex,” he told the station. “I didn’t feel like I was in a relationship. I felt like I was kind of obligated.”
Sounds more like coercion/sexual assault than male fantasy come true to me.
Here is the teacher:
Often such cases are laughed off, or people might say the boy “got lucky” if the teacher is good looking. And it reveals a seldom discussed taboo — the belief that men (or boys) can’t be molested/sexually taken advantage of/raped by a woman.
But women can be molesters, can’t they? Women can abuse power too, can’t they? Is it really any different? Shouldn’t these female teachers get the book thrown at them just the same as a male teacher would (sex offender registry and all?)
Personally, I would argue it is an abuse of power just the same as if a male teacher did the same with a 15-year-old female student and that both should be held to the same standard of prosecution and punishment.
Actually it is surprising how many of these cases have come to light in recent years. It seems to me even MORE cases than male teacher/female student ones. Perhaps some of our commenters remember the cases and can provide links?
Double standards — good for the goose, good for the gander? Good for the goose but not for the gander? Sound like we need to make cooked goose both ways?
(As an aside, my own sixth grade teacher, a thin and fairly attractive (but quickly aging) blonde single mom in her 40s but with an icky cougar vibe, wore skin tight jeans and skimpy tank tops to class every single day. While I never heard any allegations of her getting it on with male students, she most certainly did toy with them and their emerging hormone-fueled sex drive, likely for her own “wall denial” validation. I wonder now why anyone within the school district didn’t have a word with her about her – daily – ) inappropriate attire? )
What do you think? Is a female teacher having sex with an underage student child molestation just the same as a male teacher/female student, or not? Please add your thoughts in the comments.
The amount of damage done has to vary with the individual but, it has to be present.
The reason there is so much of this female on male student stuff going is for two reasons. One, male teachers know that they will get the book thrown at them and , two, there aren’t that many of them left. Female teachers think that it will be laughed off or they will get a slap on the wrist. However, they are using the power of their position as a teacher combined with the confidence of their age to use boys for sex. Also, BV linked to a post by The Other McCain about female teacher/female student abuse.
About your sixth grade teacher, I think she got her jollies from teasing the boys and, likely, that was as far as it went.
One of the reasons that male teachers caught hell was because girls could end up pregnant. Well, I have heard of boys end up having to pay child support to their teachers. Yikes!
Sex is a lot of fun but, this is the wrong way to introduce young men to it. I think that it ends up being a power trip for the teacher.
fuzziewuzziebearsaid:
Tarn,,
If you’re about, would you comment. You are more familiar with Toy Soldier’s writing than I am.
Another thought. This is sick and it has to be all over the place. When one case a week comes to light in the press, how much is passing without notice? At a guess, I think that every high school has to have at least one.
Yodasaid:
Big comment thread this will be
Yodasaid:
Does have long hair she does.
That much going for her she has
I can remember two teachers like that when I was in high school. One was about 25, and she very quietly seduced a few guys. This was before cell phones, before digital cameras, nothing written down and no proof, so when it got to be a problem she was transferred to an elementary school to teach 4th graders.
Another one, I don’t think she ever took things to its conclusion, she was all about ego gratification. She dressed in such a way that modesty was an attitude she could put on or take off at will. She enjoyed driving teenage boys nuts.
I think the explosion of female teacher liaisons with male students is just the logical next step in a process that’s been going on for a long time and it’s part ego gratification on one hand and on the other hand it’s a case of a woman who is in a position in which she can tame her budding alpha, dominate him and bend her to his will. Yes, the sex is part of it, but I think it’s more of a dominance thing than anything else.
That’s what 50 Shades of Ghey was all about- a woman breaking and alpha and taming him to her will.
Lots of guys are like- “Where were teachers like that when I was in school?” and it gets laughed at, but I disagree that it’s molestation, per se. It’s actually worse than that because if the guy asserts her and dominates her she’s in a position to punish him. Don’t think for an instant that these women are going for beta-types, they’re attracted to guys that have an alpha spark. He may be getting laid, but the price he pays is damaging to his development.
Fuzzie calls it a power trip, but I’m willing to bet that if one could dig into the history of these women you’d find a lot of alpha widows who are trying to shift the power dynamic so they get their revenge. I doubt if they could articulate that, but that’s what I think.
fuzziewuzziebearsaid:
Yoda,
I do not know. We may yet hear from “manly men” that sex, under any circumstance, is good.
@ fuzzie I know you aren’t a heartiste fan but there was an interesting exchange in the comments section there a few days back where the 40-something guys were urging younger guys not to lie to and mislead young women, saying it’s more than just sex if it isn’t, bc of how it damages them. Better to be honest, or leave the gals alone if they weren’t going to commit rather than pump and dump. I was pleasantly surprised to see that discussion there vs. “shag em and bail, who cares, enjoy the fall!” as one might expect. I’d say the same in this case, these young men’s development has got to get skewed by such experiences. Maybe Cill could comment based on his experiences…
fuzziewuzziebearsaid:
I am in agreement with Artisanal Toad. It is about dominance. He has given us a more focused picture.
The oplder ones were tight to call out the younger ones for telling fibs. There’s not much confidence placed in the opposite sex from either side. They’re not helping. I understand, that overseas, if a woman catches a man in the smallest fib, she is out the door. No shaving a couple of years off your age or adding an inch to height.A cynical man once told me, lying is a bad habit to get into. It’s hard to keep them all straight.
Indeed Fuzzie, indeed! If you tell the truth, you never have to “remember” what you said later!
I have a near photographic memory (like my father and grandfather before him, just luck of the draw) so I am extra extra good at spotting stories not lining up in time. It’s a serious character flaw to be a fibber… Plus, lying to people about one’s romantic intentions, well that’s just an extra level of bad karma juju. Just don’t. Hearts are not to be played….
fuzziewuzziebearsaid:
FPG,
About fibbing, why make life hard? However, when you go down this road, you have to learn tact.
I have a near photographic memory
That’s really cool, Bloom. 🙂
Tarn,
If you’re about, would you comment. You are more familiar with Toy Soldier’s writing than I am.
The blogger Fuzzie is referring to, Toysoldier, is a sexual abuse survivor like myself and more in the ‘sphere than is comfortable to think about. He posts about once a week with a definite focus on boys/men who’ve been taken advantage of sexually, mentally, and emotionally. Sometimes it is regarding different cultures in the Middle East or Africa, but much of it is concentrated on the crimes occurring in the US and UK. Believe me…that’s plenty.
It is incredibly supportive to anyone who needs/wants to discuss their experiences, but most especially men. After all, men very often get the short end of the stick when trying to talk about the abuse they endured.
Between the severe lack of hotlines or organizations dedicated to male survivors, the constant criticism of “men always want sex” or “how could you not want it”, and the resulting myth of “a female cannot rape a male”, there is a lot to deal with. Add in the fact that many countries do not include Forced To Penetrate as anything more serious than “assault”, plus the concept of “even if both of you were drunk, you raped her”…Well. The problems are obvious.
If anyone here has lived through any type of sexual assault or abuse, I very much recommend talking about it with someone. There *are* people who care and are able to help you. You aren’t alone.
at 15 I had a full beard, was as strong as most men, had a juvenile record and been sexually active for 3 years. At 17 I banged a teacher in my school at a party. Didn’t know she was a teacher, but I knew she was blonde, had a nice rack and just got out of collage
So no innocence to steal. In most of human history a 15 year old boy would be doing a mans job, right next to his father and yea maybe looking to marry and what not
I don’t have the kids are kids concept. Really once again to have one requires some soft living
What does seem out of line is she is in a position of power over him, but… I don’t if he was the 15 year old king of England marrying the 30 year old queen of Spain or if they were both on the same shift at some low end job things would be different
But more realistically at 15 years old he has seen every sex act their is on the internet and possibly banging girls his own age so no, I don’t think it is the outrage others do. However the double standard thing is troubling as is how many boys who are preyed on (mostly by queer dudes and not straight women) and how little is done on their behalf
This is also and area I think Old School Particacrchy would handle best, with children being the property of the father, and he having the right to seek address on his own terms as the situation is really to fluid to handle correctly by the law
A woman at the centre of a paedophile ring which set children up as “sexual playthings” over more than a decade has been found guilty of offences including rape, conspiracy to rape and inciting a child to engage in sexual activity
reports The Guardian. A
Ten people – six women and four men – had been on trial accused of the abuse of five children. Marie Black, from Norwich, was alleged to have been at the centre of the abuse.
Black, 34, denied 26 charges during a three-month trial at Norwich crown court, but on Monday the jury convicted her on all but three counts after 19 hours of deliberations. She sobbed uncontrollably in the dock as the verdicts were delivered and was heard saying: “I’ve been stitched up.”
… Opening the trial, prosecutor Angela Rafferty QC had said Black, previously known as Marie Adams, played an instrumental role in using the children as “sexual playthings”. The abuse, which is said to have happened in and around Norwich and London, included forcing the children to have sex with one another.
On some occasions, the adults threw parties and played card games to decide who would abuse which child, Rafferty said. In interviews the victims described how they were abused in front of one another and other adults. Some of the abuse involved children’s toys, including Barbie dolls.
They said the abuse became so routine that the victims came to accept it as normal. One of the male victims said: “There would be parties and they would do some games where the boys were in one room with the men and the girls were in another with the women. The adults would have a card game and the winner would get to choose a boy to start touching their private parts and then hurt them afterwards.”
The amount of damage done has to vary with the individual but, it has to be present.
The reason there is so much of this female on male student stuff going is for two reasons. One, male teachers know that they will get the book thrown at them and , two, there aren’t that many of them left. Female teachers think that it will be laughed off or they will get a slap on the wrist. However, they are using the power of their position as a teacher combined with the confidence of their age to use boys for sex. Also, BV linked to a post by The Other McCain about female teacher/female student abuse.
About your sixth grade teacher, I think she got her jollies from teasing the boys and, likely, that was as far as it went.
One of the reasons that male teachers caught hell was because girls could end up pregnant. Well, I have heard of boys end up having to pay child support to their teachers. Yikes!
Sex is a lot of fun but, this is the wrong way to introduce young men to it. I think that it ends up being a power trip for the teacher.
Tarn,,
If you’re about, would you comment. You are more familiar with Toy Soldier’s writing than I am.
Another thought. This is sick and it has to be all over the place. When one case a week comes to light in the press, how much is passing without notice? At a guess, I think that every high school has to have at least one.
Big comment thread this will be
Does have long hair she does.
That much going for her she has
I can remember two teachers like that when I was in high school. One was about 25, and she very quietly seduced a few guys. This was before cell phones, before digital cameras, nothing written down and no proof, so when it got to be a problem she was transferred to an elementary school to teach 4th graders.
Another one, I don’t think she ever took things to its conclusion, she was all about ego gratification. She dressed in such a way that modesty was an attitude she could put on or take off at will. She enjoyed driving teenage boys nuts.
I think the explosion of female teacher liaisons with male students is just the logical next step in a process that’s been going on for a long time and it’s part ego gratification on one hand and on the other hand it’s a case of a woman who is in a position in which she can tame her budding alpha, dominate him and bend her to his will. Yes, the sex is part of it, but I think it’s more of a dominance thing than anything else.
That’s what 50 Shades of Ghey was all about- a woman breaking and alpha and taming him to her will.
Lots of guys are like- “Where were teachers like that when I was in school?” and it gets laughed at, but I disagree that it’s molestation, per se. It’s actually worse than that because if the guy asserts her and dominates her she’s in a position to punish him. Don’t think for an instant that these women are going for beta-types, they’re attracted to guys that have an alpha spark. He may be getting laid, but the price he pays is damaging to his development.
Fuzzie calls it a power trip, but I’m willing to bet that if one could dig into the history of these women you’d find a lot of alpha widows who are trying to shift the power dynamic so they get their revenge. I doubt if they could articulate that, but that’s what I think.
Yoda,
I do not know. We may yet hear from “manly men” that sex, under any circumstance, is good.
@ Yoda maybe she’s not every guys cup of tea but she seems attractive and why she would target students instead of find a grown man is beyond me!
Likely the imbalance of power, she calls the shots?
Interesting Toad, I think you are onto something there….
@ fuzzie I know you aren’t a heartiste fan but there was an interesting exchange in the comments section there a few days back where the 40-something guys were urging younger guys not to lie to and mislead young women, saying it’s more than just sex if it isn’t, bc of how it damages them. Better to be honest, or leave the gals alone if they weren’t going to commit rather than pump and dump. I was pleasantly surprised to see that discussion there vs. “shag em and bail, who cares, enjoy the fall!” as one might expect. I’d say the same in this case, these young men’s development has got to get skewed by such experiences. Maybe Cill could comment based on his experiences…
I am in agreement with Artisanal Toad. It is about dominance. He has given us a more focused picture.
The oplder ones were tight to call out the younger ones for telling fibs. There’s not much confidence placed in the opposite sex from either side. They’re not helping. I understand, that overseas, if a woman catches a man in the smallest fib, she is out the door. No shaving a couple of years off your age or adding an inch to height.A cynical man once told me, lying is a bad habit to get into. It’s hard to keep them all straight.
Indeed Fuzzie, indeed! If you tell the truth, you never have to “remember” what you said later!
I have a near photographic memory (like my father and grandfather before him, just luck of the draw) so I am extra extra good at spotting stories not lining up in time. It’s a serious character flaw to be a fibber… Plus, lying to people about one’s romantic intentions, well that’s just an extra level of bad karma juju. Just don’t. Hearts are not to be played….
FPG,
About fibbing, why make life hard? However, when you go down this road, you have to learn tact.
I have a near photographic memory
That’s really cool, Bloom. 🙂
Tarn,
If you’re about, would you comment. You are more familiar with Toy Soldier’s writing than I am.
The blogger Fuzzie is referring to, Toysoldier, is a sexual abuse survivor like myself and more in the ‘sphere than is comfortable to think about. He posts about once a week with a definite focus on boys/men who’ve been taken advantage of sexually, mentally, and emotionally. Sometimes it is regarding different cultures in the Middle East or Africa, but much of it is concentrated on the crimes occurring in the US and UK. Believe me…that’s plenty.
Here’s his blog:
https://toysoldier.wordpress.com/
It is incredibly supportive to anyone who needs/wants to discuss their experiences, but most especially men. After all, men very often get the short end of the stick when trying to talk about the abuse they endured.
Between the severe lack of hotlines or organizations dedicated to male survivors, the constant criticism of “men always want sex” or “how could you not want it”, and the resulting myth of “a female cannot rape a male”, there is a lot to deal with. Add in the fact that many countries do not include Forced To Penetrate as anything more serious than “assault”, plus the concept of “even if both of you were drunk, you raped her”…Well. The problems are obvious.
If anyone here has lived through any type of sexual assault or abuse, I very much recommend talking about it with someone. There *are* people who care and are able to help you. You aren’t alone.
Thanks for sharing the link Tarn! Very true, men don’t have many places to talk freely about such experiences, glad there is such a place online.
You’re very welcome! I hope it can help someone.
About fibbing, why make life hard? However, when you go down this road, you have to learn tact.
Not sure that “tact” the correct word it is
at 15 I had a full beard, was as strong as most men, had a juvenile record and been sexually active for 3 years. At 17 I banged a teacher in my school at a party. Didn’t know she was a teacher, but I knew she was blonde, had a nice rack and just got out of collage
So no innocence to steal. In most of human history a 15 year old boy would be doing a mans job, right next to his father and yea maybe looking to marry and what not
I don’t have the kids are kids concept. Really once again to have one requires some soft living
What does seem out of line is she is in a position of power over him, but… I don’t if he was the 15 year old king of England marrying the 30 year old queen of Spain or if they were both on the same shift at some low end job things would be different
But more realistically at 15 years old he has seen every sex act their is on the internet and possibly banging girls his own age so no, I don’t think it is the outrage others do. However the double standard thing is troubling as is how many boys who are preyed on (mostly by queer dudes and not straight women) and how little is done on their behalf
This is also and area I think Old School Particacrchy would handle best, with children being the property of the father, and he having the right to seek address on his own terms as the situation is really to fluid to handle correctly by the law
Here is some more,
http://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/6136b56935c0bf14e146e1c556326a2aae14b0e8/0_570_1471_881/master/1471.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=30ea09b24a43e582611a24516666fb12
A woman at the centre of a paedophile ring which set children up as “sexual playthings” over more than a decade has been found guilty of offences including rape, conspiracy to rape and inciting a child to engage in sexual activity
reports The Guardian. A
Ten people – six women and four men – had been on trial accused of the abuse of five children. Marie Black, from Norwich, was alleged to have been at the centre of the abuse.
Black, 34, denied 26 charges during a three-month trial at Norwich crown court, but on Monday the jury convicted her on all but three counts after 19 hours of deliberations. She sobbed uncontrollably in the dock as the verdicts were delivered and was heard saying: “I’ve been stitched up.”
… Opening the trial, prosecutor Angela Rafferty QC had said Black, previously known as Marie Adams, played an instrumental role in using the children as “sexual playthings”. The abuse, which is said to have happened in and around Norwich and London, included forcing the children to have sex with one another.
On some occasions, the adults threw parties and played card games to decide who would abuse which child, Rafferty said. In interviews the victims described how they were abused in front of one another and other adults. Some of the abuse involved children’s toys, including Barbie dolls.
They said the abuse became so routine that the victims came to accept it as normal. One of the male victims said: “There would be parties and they would do some games where the boys were in one room with the men and the girls were in another with the women. The adults would have a card game and the winner would get to choose a boy to start touching their private parts and then hurt them afterwards.”
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2015/08/a-woman-at-centre-of-paedophile-ring.html
Farm Boy,
I don’t believe Hell exists, but these type of people make me wish I did.