Since finding the Red Pill, one litmus test I use when confused if I should continue a relationship is this: am I asking myself questions I shouldn’t be?
There are lots of examples where this could apply, but to name a few, if I am asking myself (or him) about the following once we get past the “just met/getting to know each other stage” I will remind myself, “If I have to ask this, there’s my answer.” For example (some of these are from my real life examples, some are based on experiences of friends):
- Is he really telling the truth?
- Why does he keep questioning if I am telling the truth? (when I am)
- Is he saying we are exclusive but signs say he’s still seeing others?
- Why isn’t he doing something he said he would? (like contact you when he said he would, show up when he said he would, etc.)
- Why is he so (needlessly) difficult to get in touch with? (Obviously I don’t mean while he is at work, etc.)
- Why isn’t he there reasonably on time when we had plans and if something has changed, why has he not let me know?
- Why is he more often than not wanting to “leave things open” rather than making plans somewhat in advance?
- Did he seriously take my cell phone home after a date to go through it, then claim I must have “left it in his truck”? (It happened! As soon as he brought up stuff from old texts before we even met, I knew he’d dug deep, deep, deep! I am admittedly lazy about deleting old texts, emails, etc. but if someone wants to know something, they should ASK not SNOOP, imho. He really tortured himself needlessly by doing that, and it turned out he was hugely jealous and suspicious when he had NO reason to be, not good.)
- Why are there large gaps of time where I don’t hear from him or know what’s going on?
- Why have I not met his friends, family, co-workers, or other important people yet if he says we are exclusive/serious?
- Why has he never had me over to his place (a friend dated a guy for A YEAR, supposedly exclusively and leading toward marriage, but had oddly never been asked to his house in the same city. Yep, he was married!)
- Why is he nervous when his phone rings, he gets a text, or oddly protective when showing you photos or anything else on his phone?
- Did he really just ask the waitress/my friend/my sister for her number??? (kidding, extreme example but you get my point)
- Etc.
I am not especially prone to jealousy, clingy, insecure, or one to accuse. But if my gut is raising a red flag about a potential love match, and one plus one is not consistently equaling two, I have learned the hard way it’s best not to ignore it. Especially if one finds themselves asking such questions more often, not less often, as time goes on.
As a very wise person once said to me, “People are already giving all they want to give. Asking them to give more is the path of pain. Asking yourself if what they are offering is enough, or not, and then acting accordingly is a better path.”
So if you find yourself wanting to have “the talk” well, you are ignoring the obvious most likely. If he’s not initiating “the talk” or is dodgy about things, there’s your answer. If he says something like, “I like you but I am not looking for something serious right now,” believe him and either accept that or walk. You can’t push a guy into a commitment.
(Note: I am not saying a woman should shit test a guy over and over, or make him “prove” himself to you, expect him to say “how high?” when you say “jump”, expect him to answer to you at every moment, play silly immature girl games, try to be the boss, or create drama where these is none. Hopefully it is implied that you are doing all you can to also be a good potential mate and behaving yourself accordingly. Also, if he’s not actually doing anything to create doubt but you are feeling it anyway, that’s something you should work on before you attempt to be in a relationship.)
Another way to put this can be found here: Men Who Like You Will Explain Themselves. Lots of troubling unanswered questions is rarely a good sign.
Life is too short to wonder where one stands or to put up with a lot of dating drama. No matter how cute, rich, interesting, or built — if a guy is yanking you around, it’s best to be honest that he just isn’t wanting/ready/willing/able/interested, cut bait, and give him a hard “Next!” (The same advice applies, I would imagine, to guys about gals.)
What do you think? Good advice or too harsh?
Please discuss in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Working at a game shop would be a lot of fun. Next time we get ready to buy a new game I’ll remember to ask you first.
For christmas we got a bunch of new games and only seem to like about half of them. Both of us really wanted to like pixel tactics but that is now my least favorite game that I own. Doubt I own it much longer (It only took 2 month to get rid a of a christmas present. My poor wife, she has the hardest time trying to find things for me).
“Where things can go sideways is when people start to assign morality to it, that it’s “wrong” for women to be like that, it’s “evil” or it’s something they SHOULD be able to control. That’s like calling a polar bear evil for eating sea lions. It’s not pretty, but IT IS WHAT IT IS. Welcome to the red pill, like someone once said if it makes you feel like you are about to vomit, you’re starting to get it.”
Postmodern nihilism — babbling chaos — is what you get when divorce accountability for individual behavior (“when people start to assign morality to it”) from public morality. This is why the public square is the *appropriate* venue for ethical and religious debate. As Richard John Neuhaus wrote, what is religion but a culture that teaches us *how to live?* Once we ask the question “How to live?” we are obligated to ask “How *should* we live?” And how is that not a matter of public, civic concern? (Roseanneroseannadanna of course disagrees: “I’m okay you’re okay I am woman hear me roar if it’s not one thing it’s another!”
Intersexual relations are frequently feral and punitive, today, because the notion of subordinating a personal impulse (hypergamy, promiscuity, blowing up families, stealing children, criminalizing masculinity, drinking wine with breakfast (well, maybe not the last)) to a common social contract is fled. To say that we cannot assign morality’s filter to destructive behavior is mistaken; it’s like saying that grown adults should abandon their toilet training because the random evacuation of one’s bowels is perfectly natural.
***
RP men avoid marriage for the reason Bloom ignores, as is normally the case when any woman discusses this stuff: the government stands behind only one of two people in a marriage (or, one of four, assuming two children). Google Riker’s Island: that’s where I go if I try to attend my son’s parent-teacher conference.
Put another way: watch what happens when you tell an enlightened woman, “Sorry, I’m not mixing love and money (and government) again.” All they’ve got is “Come back, I’ll be nice this time!”
***
Liz, my crazy (female) 767 captain friend once called the stews “cart donkeys.” I remember thinking, “That checks out.”
“a friend who had been happily married 20 years confessed when her husband was diagnosed with cancer that she felt this huge urge to divorce him” It’s true, I’m afraid, women do instinctively turn on a man who is having difficulties…serious disease, job problems, loss of status…and it is horrifying. Because no matter how super-alpha you are as a man, there will be times when things go badly wrong. Yes, you can minimize her bad reactions by maintaining confidence and a strong frame, but if your problem is bad enough, she is still likely to want to “eject,” and to feel very resentful if she can’t. I’d guess that in the majority of cases where a man is having problems, his wife’s reaction causes him as much or more suffering than whatever the base problem was.
That said, I do think there are big differences in this from woman to woman…and one of the most important things in wife-choosing or long-term-gf choosing is to pick one who is best (or at least least-bad) from this point of view. Which raises the question: what are some indicators for how reliable she will be in bad circumstances?
For example: If a girl has shown great loyalty to her female friends, sticking with them even if they get very sick or are out with the in crowd…is this an indicator of loyalty to a husband, or are the psychological mechanisms completely different?
GoFigure,
Working at a game shop would be a lot of fun.
It is. I’ve worked here for over a decade.
Could’ve gotten a more stressful, but better paying job, but I went with something that pays my bills, gets me a little bit of savings, and that I actually *enjoy*. Hope to have my own one day, too.
Next time we get ready to buy a new game I’ll remember to ask you first.
Oh, please do! I read comics, paint miniatures, role play, and am into videogames, non-collectible card games (think Marvel Legendary or Ascension instead of Magic or Yugioh), and love boardgames of all kinds. I’ll quite gladly help you out! 🙂
For christmas we got a bunch of new games and only seem to like about half of them. Both of us really wanted to like pixel tactics but that is now my least favorite game that I own.
I’m not surprised, unfortunately.
I have some customers who tried to play one of the copies we got in…they didn’t like it either.
My poor wife, she has the hardest time trying to find things for me).
Maybe suggest a virtual gift card to Thinkgeek, CoolStuffInc, Crazy Igor’s, TrollandToad, or Card Kingdom? I’d recommend my store too…but that would be telling, lol. 😉
@BV so true. And perhaps I picked the wrong word by saying “morality.” What I was trying to say wasn’t that the way women act today and the things you mention are OK, clearly they are immoral and not good. I am not sure how to put this, when I hear men in the sphere saying some form of “women are evil” it seems as unfair as saying “men are evil.” Women are women. Men are men. Yes both should strive to understand and control the worst parts of those natures while developing the best parts of them. So I wasn’t meaning team woman should be excused, or that the FI out of control is ok. If that makes sense? Women can and should rise above their base levels. Indeed!
Overall I agree marriage is a bad deal for men. Still I believe it can be done well on an individual level, such as Liz and Mike demonstrate. If one chooses not to marry in the current f’ed up legal and social climate, that’s an equally valid choice too and one I wholeheartedly support!
On a lighter note, manatees know what they like, and they like the big girls:
One of my secret getaway places is Fort Peirce: blue collar town, there’s a motel on a canal with 1950’s terra-cotta floors and metal cabinets in the kitchenette. Good airport, also a customs shop for clearing to the east and the Bahamas.
Good questions Anon Al!
I think there would be tells, such as her attitude toward feminism, men, the legal climate today, and such. Does she see it from a man’s pov too? Is she against a system so unfair to men? How does she treat the men in her family? Workplace? Life? Does she think of others equally or even above self? Does she lack an entitlement attitude? Is she humble? Kind? Drama-free? Mature?
Where I live there is a religous sect similar to Amish. I see these qualities in these women. They are raised to be wives and mothers. To support their husbands. To put family before self. In the general culture not many women are raised this way. So I guess that would be my advice.
As an aside, a few weeks back I went to dinner at a place owned by members of this faith. I immediately noticed the place was filled with exactly the demure, chaste, feminine, modest, humble women men in the sphere dream of!
I wrote this article about seeing this culture up close, as my kid’s sitter is of this faith, and what I have learned from her. She was more ready to be a mom and wife and to do so well at 19 than I ever was, thanks to my messed up feminist upbringing that basically did all it could to ensure I didn’t develop those skills but focused on the false idols of “education!” “Career” and “independence” instead! In my 40s I am still relearning these once common womanly basics! Sad!
If you do want to marry, look for a gal like this: https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2014/11/12/inside-a-world-without-feminism/
Men and women are both fallen. At the moment, feminist culture celebrates female depravity. That culture is now the law. There are no women lobbying to change the law. Read into it what you will.
Liz & Co. were married before they knew what was going on. Capt. Mike, I will wager, knows 20 strung-out and broke divorced pilots whose children consider them curiosities with the checkbook, making $200K/year, for every happy husband. So they’re fortunate.
There’s a useful saying in business and other contact sports: luck is never a strategy.
This. Doesn’t. Work.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcF-LhSUkAAcmEz.jpg:large
True BV Liz and Mike are blessed indeed! It makes me happy to know they are happy. I am always amazed that despite being raised w feminist dogma herself, Liz saw through that (with Mike’s guidance, sounds like he had strong frame early). She is rare indeed! 🙂
I will miss her so! Sniff. Four more months…. Sniff.
Omg the manatee gal. She doesn’t even look human! 😦
I think maybe the manatees could use some glasses.
At my old job, I ran into a descendant of Gen. John B. Gordon CSA. In his later photos, you only see him from one side. The side of the jaw that wasn’t hit with a one ounce subsonic solid lead minie ball. If his wife weren’t there to feed him soup while his jaw was wired shut, I never would have met his descendant.
Do I need to go back in time to find that kind of loyalty in a woman?
Ton mentioned how bad military wives are now. Could it be because of all the benefits? It’s like the men are worth more dead than alive.
The first reaction to BV’s story was that modern women aren’t too good with keeping their marriage vows. Who knows where they would be now if she chose to ride it out? He’s obviously recovered. At a guess, better off.
RPG,
There is a big difference between understandable and acceptable. While the stuff modern women are pulling is understandable, xo way is it acceptable.
My Dad’s second wife dumped him after they sold the house and he got out of surgury. She made sure they got to the ten year mark.
BV,
If any man is in the presence of a woman who thinks this is how reality should be, I hope he runs fast and far…
Agreed Fuzzie, it is NOT acceptable!
I asked my wife her thoughts:
On the topic of women leaving after a man has/expresses weakness in job, life or health.
Mrs. goFigure; there has to be another explanation or these are shallow women.
On the topic of women losing interest after a man has/expresses weakness in job, life or health.
Mrs. goFigure; there has to be another explanation or these are shallow women.
I follow with; Women are just filling the biological need for resources and protection.
Mrs. goFigure; aren’t humans supposed to have higher reasoning and be a better than base biology.
On the topic of being able to talk to and share thoughts with your wife.
Mrs. goFigure; how can you be a wife and support your husband if he can’t share with you?
There you have one woman’s take on things.
Sorry my italics didn’t work right. anyone no how to close italics proper. Obviously what I tried didn’t work.
She also mentioned that I am not free to talk about the attractiveness of other women to her. Dang, I guess none of us have the perfect spouse;)
So GoFigure’s wife is a feminist pull-string talking point robot. Go figure.
“Omg the manatee gal. She doesn’t even look human!
LOL Yeah, the first thing that came to my mind was, “natural mistake for the manatees”. 😛
I also wonder how a person could be assaulted by them? They move pretty slow. I mean, REALLY slow. And she’s obviously a very bouyant gal. They’re even slower at the water’s surface. (we see a lot of them out here)
🙂
Sorry, BV don’t get the reference or idea you are implying.
Forgot to add: Thanks for your kind words, Bloom. 🙂
Never mind BV. I finally interpreted your bad english. It clear you have no clue what your talking about. Go Figure!
Maybe she was attention whoring?
“I am so hot even the manatees can’t resist me! Snap snap!”
GF, My eengleesh is bad because my real name is Jose Jimenez. GF, yourself! (Abbreviated version: GFY.)
Your wife recites every trite “all women aren’t like that, so duh, it’s his fault” line in the playbook.
It’s true Liz, you add a refreshing ray of hope many many times!
BV, my wife says its the women’s fault but if you want to be a marter go ahead.
Oh, squee! Glad you think so, Bloom. 🙂
“Maybe she was attention whoring?”
Manatee does have the word “man” in it!
Wonder what they said in man-atee speak
“Whale, whale, whale, what have we here?”
(I’m evil)
Liz,
It has been a while since I have seen a manatee. I had forgotten that they move slowly.I’ll bet that she had to cooperate a LOT in this sexual harrassment. It’s a pity no one caught on film and uploaded it to youtube. Great comedy!
Preach it BV
I’m totally with you on this. Usually we are just asking ourselves or others in hopes our gut is wrong. We ignore our intuition when it’s there to guide us. I recently learned what “gas-lighting” was and I realize oftentimes it was done to me to make me doubt myself. Never again! lol
*Gaslighting – form of mental abuse in which info is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false info is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception and sanity.
Indeed, and I have been guilty in the past of ignoring red signs, trying to “read the tea leaves” instead of realizing the obvious, and such. Since I started asking myself this question it just clarifies things in a very simple way!
I too have experienced gaslighting, it is weird how well that “works.” For much of my marriage my ex was doing this, and I was always confused, second guessing, feeling “something” wasn’t right but not sure what, feeling guilty when I hadn’t done anything, apologizing to try and make peace when again I hadn’t done anything… no matter how hard I tried to make things “balance” and “work” they just never did. Head games! Yuck! 😦
Agreed, no more of that noise!!!
there are two cures for gaslighting
0FG’s
ball gags and what not.
They work well in tandem
I could never put my finger on what it was he was doing to me so I was thrilled when I came across this definition. My ex actually admitted to me after a therapy session that he purposely would mislead me or lie when I was on to something b/c it pissed him off that I was right. He was so annoyed with my “sixth sense” that he wanted to squash it out of me and make me think I was wrong. Manipulative and weak is what I now think of him. So, hell yeah! No more of that noise!
I like the idea of asking myself that question out loud. ❤️
Lol Ton, did you mean ZFG? (Zero fu(ks given?)
Somehow I don’t think my ex would have taken to a ball gag very well, but then again…. maybe so! 😉
I think ‘gaslighting’ is b.s., as I trust my own observations, but when in doubt, most problems are resolved with checklists. As in, if you don’t trust your own observations and memory, carry around 3×5 notecards. Check, cross-check, observe, decide.
My normal reaction to ‘gaslighting’ is “Haha, you’re lying.” I hadn’t thought about the ball gag approach, though spanking, and other activities involving significant amounts of lube, have been helpful.
More seriously, it’s very easy to gaslight children, and that, my friends, is a tough one. Keep your eyes open and help one. A child with a psychopathic parent has no idea what is real or not real well into adulthood.
–Jose Jimenez.
“Gaslighting” is a pretty advanced technique of manipulation. It would be most likely used that by someone that has a personality disorder. Seeking the advice of Tara Palmatier would be a good idea. Finding a new place to live would also.
Trust me BV, my ex indeed was an excellent gaslighter. Sadly I see him do the same to our daughter from time to time (and for no good reason except to mess with her head) like promising her she’ll get a hamster, then after she’s spent months saving up, buying a cage, supplies, etc. he says while they are ***at the pet store*** to pick it up after all that waiting, that her step sister can have one but she can’t because, “there’s no room for you to have one too, unless you move in with me.” I unfortunately am not kidding! She was devastated. Mommy (very nicely and calmly) asked him to give her back the money she had spent on buying supplies he then gave to her step sister (who had contributed $0.00), and I got her an even better cage, supplies, and two adorable baby sister gerbils to enjoy here at Chateau Bloom, instead. (I am NOT making this up!)
I mean if he didn’t have room for a hamster…how would there be room at his place for her? See how that makes no sense? Who does that to an 11-year-old?
Mind games suck!
Oh, and I also (very nicely and respectfully) reminded him that he should discuss changes to the custody agreement with me, and that we would need to change it legally if big changes are made, not lead our daughter to believe it is up to her to decide. (I left out, “especially just so she can get a hamster.”)
I don’t talk much about this part of my world here, but it ain’t always easy to co-parent with a narcissist, trust me. Mostly I try to talk to him as little as possible…unless something like this happens and then I very gently say my piece. So far it works mostly well… I’d call “mostly well” a huge success, considering…
Just looked up the Right Stuff reference to Jose Jimenez.
Ah, the good old days when they were allowed to have some fun on the radio. These days…No way, Jose!
but it ain’t always easy to co-parent with a narcissist
welcome to man land darling
@ Ton indeed. There’s a good reason I can empathize with guys in the red pill. In some ways, I’ve been there too.
Another example. Last week I get served w papers threatening a lawsuit for an unpaid medical bill. So I look I to it and it turns out it’s from last Nov., part of a test for our daughter . I had already paid my half of it back then, but apparently he never did. The $150 is now $500 and change thanks to charges and fees. He was also served and came unglued, assuming it was my fault. Luckily thanks to my lazy not deleting of any texts, I was able to go back and find the text I sent telling him about the bill in Nov and what his part was, and his reply agreeing to pay it. So I forwarded those to him. He acts like I’m “lucky” and insists I only pay half! Which I actually am going to do just because it’s not worth fighting it w him.
I wonder if he would take a ball gag… It’s kindof an appealing thought! Lol! Kidding!!!
Good grief! That sucks Bloom. 😦
Sorry you have to deal with that. 😦
Bloom,
This ex you’re talking about sounds *exactly* like my bio father, right down to the whole “If You Lived With Me, You Could….” mind games and lies.
It is what it is Liz, could be worse I suppose… Actually once I clued into what he was doing, suddenly it was much easier to deal with as I can usually stay a step ahead, or have learned to cover my a** in dealings with him. People like him actually get off in some sick way by putting others into no-win situations and then enjoy watching the emotional pain it causes them. So the best defense is a ZFG attitude, deny them the satisfaction by not getting spun up/hurt/etc. no matter what they do (at least not letting them see it, anyway.) Engaging in the no-win battle plays right into their hand…they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that dra-aaaama. Sadly. If you just say, “Ok, whatever…” and don’t give a s#it, that actually takes their sick “power” away, and messes with their head, instead!
On a brighter note, we have discovered that gerbils are awesome little critters. They are a desert animal, so they drink much less water than mice or hamsters or what not, so they aren’t a stinky smelly mess like many rodents can be. We have them in a 55 gallon aquarium filled about 6 inches deep with shredded paper bedding. They are a burrowing animal, and are constantly busy doing that, so every day they have completely remodeled their system of tunnels and caves (some up against the glass so we can peek in). It’s fun to watch them, they happily scamper about, dig, dig, digging and then randomly popping up to the surface like little groundhogs. Their favorite “treat” is a toilet paper tube, they can shred it down to nothing in about 15 minutes! My guy got us a set of colorful chalk “markers” the girls use to draw on the glass and decorate the cage. Super fun. And better than watching videos or whatever.
So the silver lining? We never would have gotten them or had such fun with them had all this not happened! Lemons into lemonade…
I love gerbils. They are awesome pets.
Just make sure to give them stuff to chew. Their teeth never stop growing. Also, keep the lid on the cage. They can jump seriously high!
🙂
Yes, they are chewers for sure. We found that any wooden “toy” put in their cage is sawdust within a short time, but as you say it is good for their teeth and the toys are only a few dollars. We also give them a pile of timothy hay every day, which they love to chew up into small bits and drag into their burrows, and the empty toilet paper tubes.
Also like you say, they are FAST so we keep the lid on and mostly watch them rather than try and handle them. The second night they were here, I was with my youngest half dozing while she was watching a cartoon, and my oldest had tried to pick one up only to have it spring right out of her hand and scurry away like lightning under the door. I am not even sure how I managed it, Super Mommy Power maybe, but I saw it dart past out of the corner of my eye and instinctively just grabbed it. I am such a ninja! Gerbil escape thwarted. (The cat wasn’t so happy about that! Our dog seems to want to eat them too, so another good reason to keep the lid on tight!)
Also kinda funny, the step sister who initially “lorded” the having a hamster when my daughter didn’t now complains because she has to take care of it! Ha, ha!
p.s. There aren’t many children I don’t care for, but this step sister is one of them. She’s everything the RP guys talk about, a super vain, self centered, all “me, me me” cheerleader type, 14 going on 25. The first time I met her she tried to stare me down, which of course she lost, but I thought that was really weird for a then tween to so obviously try to establish dominance with an adult. She joked later that she does that to everyone, she likes to make people uncomfortable. (Another budding narcissist, how fun! Not.) Luckily, her future (and I predict it will be the usual “go-gurrrl carousel woot-woot!” stuff based on the fact that she will already only wear very tight and revealing Victoria Secret brand clothing, etc.) is not my problem! And she provides a lot of “teachable moment” examples for my daughter about how NOT to be! Luckily too, my daughter does NOT look up to her, but sees her for the shallow silly creature she is.
And wow all that sounds rather catty, which is why I don’t talk about this stuff much here. You’d have to be there to see it…but trust me I am likely UNDER exaggerating.
RPG,
I am sorry that your ex puts you through all that.
Actually it could be worse, Fuzzie. So I am thankful that it isn’t, and make the best of a bad situation. I take the high road, for my kid’s sake. They are what is important.
Kids are a good influence on adults, aren’t they? Talk about bass ackwards reasoning.