Tags
battle of the sexes, equality, feminism, gender, matriarchy, men, patriarchy, red pill, single independant woman, submission, women, women's rights
Today I’d like to share a story to help illustrate a point. I’ll get to what the point is later, but first the story…
When I was 26 or so, I had the amazing opportunity to travel to China and Hong Kong with my uncle, who is Chinese, born in China, raised in Hong Kong, educated in the US, and married to my mom’s sister.
He is my favorite uncle, and I am so blessed to have him in my life and world. Thanks to him I have been exposed to a wonderful and beautiful culture I never would have seen otherwise. The Chinese culture is the oldest continuous surviving culture on earth, and radically different from our own. Thanks to him, I have had a “translator” to help me understand the origins of these differences, which I am sure otherwise would seem quite baffling. (The culture is group based, conformity based, community based, and many other things rarely if ever found in American culture which prizes the individual over the group.)
The Chinese are also, thank Goodness, infinitely polite and ever patient. My uncle must sometimes just cringe in amazement at his American niece (very much a proud and loud independent feminist minded female at the time).
But back to the story. So I got to go on this trip. My Uncle’s oldest brother was also there, he met us there (he’s a longtime resident of New Zealand where he settled after college.) We also saw and met many other family members along the way, including a sister in Beijing, a sister in Hong Kong, a sister visiting Hong Kong from Maryland, their mother, uncle, and aunt all in Hong Kong, and various other cousins and distant clan.
There were banquets and feasts and touring and a trip on a boat down the Yangtze (pre-dam) and all sorts of amazing, amazing things. A trip of a lifetime.
While in Bejing we toured the Imperial Palace, home to the former Emperors of China, and a just amazing, must-see place. It is HUGE, and goes from large public spaces, to mid sized official spaces, to private residence spaces, to the most intimate spaces only the Emperor, his servants, and his wives saw.
Anyway most of the trip my uncle and his brother did all the talking, planning, and navigation. My uncle was so young when his family fled the communist takeover of China that he only speaks Cantonese, the language of Hong Kong. His older brother, eight at the time they fled, speaks both Cantonese and Mandarin, the language of mainland China. Hong Kong and China are vastly different places, cultures, and such — truly fascinating. Especially then, when China was just opening to the West and Hong Kong had just reverted to Chinese rule from Birttish.
But again, back to the story. After spending an entire day touring and walking from the front gates of the palace to the exit at the rear, we were all anxious to get something to eat and get back to our hotel. Cab drivers were waiting right outside the gate, very boldly approaching groups and seeking riders. I for some reason decided to take charge. I choose the cab driver, my uncle and his brother (my uncles really) looked at each other with a knowing look, agreed, and we got in. I felt so proud of my independence and my ability to make my way in the world as a fierce and fearless female!
When we got to our destination, the driver informed my uncles the price was significantly higher than promised. You see he was not an official cab driver with an agreed to fare and government backed policies, but a hustler, and thanks to me we were in his clutches. My uncles quickly paid the higher fare with little arguement. Problem solved! Or so I thought.
Later that evening they very nicely and patiently informed me I owed them for the additional fare, as after all the cab was my choice, so it was only fair. Cringe. They were right and I knew it, so I forked over the $40 or so extra, which at the time was a big part of my “spending money” for the trip.
They taught me something without ever saying a word and it was this — I should have trusted them to lead the way and make the decisions rather than try (demand) to foolishly “prove” myself their equal.
Eating crow is never a fun thing. But I took my lumps and choked it down without complaint. And I learned something that day — men know a lot more than we women often give them credit for. Listening and looking to them for guidance can be a wise strategy, but takes a humble and dare I say submissive frame of mind to yield, but it’s a lot better than eating crow. Try it sometime!
Or you can get used to saying, “Mmmmm, crow….yummy!”
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
(And for a good look at the Imperial Palace, the movie “The Last Emperor” shows it well, and tells the story of how China became a communist country, as well. Excellent watching!)
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Yay! (Throws confetti and dances a jig!)
Cookies, anyone? 🙂
Fixed. So you had it almost right, inside the two brackets put i to start then /i to stop 🙂
btw, for those who don’t know me, when I used to get all worked up and nearly go off the red pill rails, I would say, “Cookies anyone?” as a way to crack a joke and move myself along. 😉
btw Go Figure, that was SUCH an intj answer! Love those intj’s! 🙂 The voice of reason they are!
goFigure is great! Thank you again goFigure! He does say that not all red pill guys agree with him, but all I know is that he makes a lot of sense.
I think Go Figure is a she, yes?
I’ll weigh in on the Sue distraction. I think she suffers from what all females suffer from: gender bias. She’ll listen to what Bloom has to say because she’s another female … but if a male enters into the conversation …. he’s automatically wrong; because he doesn’t have a vagina. And she becomes stubborn and confrontational because of that.
So here is a homework assignment for Miss Sue. There is another red-pill aware anti-feminist who all could learn from. She goes by “Girl Writes What” – Karen Straughn. Like many, Karen was a key gateway for me into Red Pill awareness. Please note that I’m a man. I don’t suffer from gender bias like women do. As the knight said… the Red Pill is about the truth, about reality. As a man, I don’t care if that truth is delivered from a man or from a woman. It just doesn’t matter. But for Miss Sue … it appears that gender does matter and perhaps it would be better for her to learn from another female.
I haven’t followed Karen much for a couple of years but I believe her best body of work is older and not more her more recent stuff. I could be wrong, though. If you go to her youtube channel and search for “most popular” you will see her best work and most of it is 3-4 years old.
Not sure what others here think of Karen … I think she is effing amazing in her approach and her clarity.
Here is Karen’s work: https://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos?sort=p&flow=grid&view=0
Sue, if you truly want to learn what the Red Pill is about … go watch some of Karen’s vids.
Peace
Rocket, I like what goFigure has to say, and he’s a guy.
There are varying opinions on here. The ones that make sense to me, I agree with (this means go Figure’s, RPG’s, and others). The ones that don’t make sense to me, I don’t agree with. It’s that simple!
Like everyone here, I go by what I’ve witnessed in real life. If someone tells me something that is simply not true, based on my life, then why shouldn’t I reject it? I’m not being influenced by some feminist propaganda here, it’s not someone telling me some myths that I’ve bought into, it’s me seeing what I see, and now being told, “You didn’t see that.”
Karen has some good stuff. Worth watching for sure. I have seen some but can only follow so many sites on the regular… 🙂
Sue like to use the “if I can find one exception, your general rule wrong it is”.
In describing the human condition always correct rules never found they are.
But ones that work mostly well, find one can
Yoda, what “general rule” am I arguing against? Right now my main bone of contention is that when someone has a strong passionate inclination towards something, they should pursue it. Male or female, makes no difference. If a smaller percentage of women feel this passion, so be it. What’s the problem with that?
RPG, I am starting to watch one of the videos. I will report back later! 🙂
Yoda’s probably talking about what you are saying on an “overall” level, like Tarn said maybe its “not always like that” or “you aren’t like that” but if it’s “like that enough of the time” well that’s a trend. That’s what we discuss here, trends not individual cases.
So for example, if one was to say I don’t ever (fill in the blank) that may be, but if you look around and most other people or even maybe just some people (fill in the blank), well to say people in general don’t (fill in the blank) is true bc you don’t (fill in the blank) when in fact some or most do (fill in the blank) that would not make your exception to the rule disprove the rule.
I’d have to think of a real life example… He’s not saying this about any one thing in particular you say, more about how you are reasoning on an overall level. For example:
“I would never steal” may be true, however that doesn’t mean other people also wouldn’t steal, because obviously some do. Lots do. Not everybody does, true. I don’t steal either. Great! Neither of us steal. That again, still does not mean nobody does, orcthst stealing isn’t an issue just because we don’t, wouldn’t, never have, never will, or even have never known anyone personally who would, or have ever seen it in action.
I am pretty sure that’s what Yoda is saying but he can confirm or deny if he likes.
Again, it’s not about YOU. Lots of people use reasoning like that. Even I *wish* these things I write about were such common sense they didnt need saying, and maybe at one time they were, but today these ideas may seem almost unthinkable (to some not all.) I am glad they seem like no brainers to you! That’s good. You are ahead of most! 🙂 it’s the others who have never heard things like this, or would find them odd, I am saying them to.
The girl who is so immersed in hook up culture bc “everybody’s doing it” may hear “don’t ride the carousel, it’s hurting you” for the first time and maybe reconsider her actions. See what I mean? That’s who I am writing for… Those immersed in “modern culture.”
“Even I *wish* these things I write about were such common sense they didnt need saying, and maybe at one time they were, but today these ideas may seem almost unthinkable (to some not all.) I am glad they seem like no brainers to you! That’s good. You are ahead of most! 🙂 it’s the others who have never heard things like this, or would find them odd, I am saying them to.
The girl who is so immersed in hook up culture bc “everybody’s doing it” may hear “don’t ride the carousel, it’s hurting you” for the first time and maybe reconsider her actions. See what I mean? That’s who I am writing for… Those immersed in “modern culture.”
I see. And you’re right! So much of it is a no-brainer. I’m like, “Obviously! That’s only common sense!” But for someone who has heard this for the first time, then it’s an important message.
I’m still ruminating over the “men do everything better” topic. (Sorry.) Maybe I can clarify my thoughts a bit more.
A good work ethic has been lost in this modern world of political correctness, where everyone deserves a trophy, “it’s not fair that you’re better (because you worked harder), so we’re going to take away from you and give it to someone else.” But that’s where I’m coming from.
In the case of talents and ambitions, I was saying before that I realize that men, being the breadwinners, often have more drive, ambition, confidence, and this translates to more success. That’s fine. There’s nothing “unfair” in that.
Where I was tripping up is that it sounded like some guys (but I don’t think go Figure) were saying that, “It doesn’t matter what you do, how hard you try, as a female you’ll never be as good as a man.” But that does not align with what I’ve witnessed personally. I have never seen a connection between gender and excellence, it’s always been work ethic. Those who don’t work as hard, don’t get as far. It’s that simple.
Obviously, in some fields, a work ethic is only going to take someone so far. If I wanted to be a firefighter but for example, I’m only 5’2″ and 92 pounds, work ethic isn’t going to cut it. But in the fields I’m most familiar with, work ethic is the primary determining factor, assuming the person has a reasonable amount of aptitude.
That’s what I’ve seen and what I’ve lived. If some people believe differently, that’s their right, but I just can’t stop believing something to be true when I’ve already lived it.
I’m still crawling through one of those videos, something about atheism. Will report back. 🙂
Okay, I forgot something I should have said before: On the work ethic thing? I don’t believe it only applies to a few narrow categories of talent. I believe it applies frequently enough to make a statistical difference. It’s not a matter of “Oh, this is a small exception to the rule.” No, work ethic beats a lot of things, in a lot of disciplines. Not all of them. (It can’t make a 5’2″ woman a suitable firefighter.) I’m just leaving that out there. If some here disagree, okay, I guess I’ll still go with what my eyes tell me and they can go with what they believe as well. Such is life… 🙂
Later that evening they very nicely and patiently informed me I owed them for the additional fare, as after all the cab was my choice, so it was only fair. Cringe. They were right and I knew it, so I forked over the $40 or so extra, which at the time was a big part of my “spending money” for the trip.
I’m glad they taught you accountability, and didn’t just wave away the extra money you owed. Also glad you didn’t throw a fit, which is something I’ve actually seen older teens and young adults do when confronted with losing some of their non-earned money.
They taught me something without ever saying a word and it was this — I should have trusted them to lead the way and make the decisions rather than try (demand) to foolishly “prove” myself their equal.
Interesting. I really wasn’t sure how this post was RP until this paragraph. I thought it was going to be a post regarding Accountability For One’s Actions. It surprised me at the end, when it became a Listen To Men More topic instead. The way I read it, your error wasn’t necessarily the fact you didn’t let your *male* relatives lead, it was that you didn’t let your *more knowledgeable* relatives lead. The face that they happened to be your foreign-living uncles instead of your (hypothetical) foreign-livibg aunts was besides the point…which is to defer to those who understand the current situation better.
Eating crow is never a fun thing. But I took my lumps and choked it down without complaint.
Which is for the best. Many youths nowadays would not.
And I learned something that day — men know a lot more than we women often give them credit for.
True in general. But I think it’s mostly true for SJWs, Feminists, and other gynocentric people. If one already thinks of men as people, who all have different strengths, weaknesses, and knowledge, then this concept of “giving men credit” for what they know just happens on a daily basis. I know things, my friends know things, together we know LOTS of things.
Listening and looking to them for guidance can be a wise strategy, but takes a humble and dare I say submissive frame of mind to yield, but it’s a lot better than eating crow. Try it sometime!
I don’t think that looking to others, be they men or women, requires a submissive mindframe. Certainly an intelligent one, or at least a common sense one of “they have more information than me, and therefore can make better decisions right now”.
But I don’t think my friends or my lover are being “submissive” towards me when they ask for my advice, directions, or recommendations just as I’m not being submissive when asking them the same. It’s just an exchange of resources, nothing more or less.
I’m still ruminating over the “men do everything better” topic.
Wow. Just finished reading the comments…this topic has been going spinning around here for longer than I’d have though! Lol.
Sue, I believe that Success comes down to 3 factors:
1. Does the person have the intelligence/IQ needed to pursue X? Significantly more men are in the -80 IQ range and +120 IQ range than women, just as significantly more women are clustered in the median 100 IQ. This doesn’t mean ALL women are average and NO men are, just like it doesn’t mean NO women are geniuses or morons and ONLY men are.
I consistently test at slightly over 130, and my lover is about 120. Statistics are just that…statistics. They say how things could be + how things are for a majority of the population. They become less useful at the individual level, as you know.
2. Does the person have the physical ability to pursue X? If we’re talking about pure strength, the strongest man in the world is going to be better than the strongest woman in the world. Biology has seen to that, as “unfair” as it may be, because men require a minimum of 5% body fat to live, whereas women require 12-15%. Our bodies are also typically smaller (again, statistics! not individual!), and men produce a LOT more testosterone than we do. But this doesn’t account for other physical demands like flexibility, agility, or simply getting into cramped spaces, which I’ve seen more women excel at than men, precisely because they are lighter, have different types of muscle, and are smaller.
Then, of course, there’s the matter of health in general. I can run significantly faster than my lover, despite him being taller and male, because he’s out of shape and I’m not. When we volunteer at gaming conventions together, we can both carry 70 lb boxes by ourselves, but he’s quite a bit more tired after a few trips than I am, because I work out daily and he doesn’t. But we’re both in jobs where the physical strength we do have doesn’t matter all that much, and much more reliance is put on our knowledge. Contrast this to those who are firefighters, boxers, wrestlers, EMTs, police, in the military, etc. and yes, there are jobs where men will be better than women nearly all the time.
3. Does the person have the common sense to take an unbiased look at the first two factors, and see if there’s anything else that they’d be better at and therefore should do instead? This is the point that I think so very many women forget. Like Bloom said much earlier, kids become your life when you have them…there’s no real time for a full-time career AND a family. Forbes has reported again and again that something like 3/4 of career women would greatly prefer to be SAHM, but only around 10% of men would prefer to be SAHD. Take from this what you may, but I really do think that women like myself…who KNOW they do not want marriage and children, ever…are incredibly rare. Feminism has hurt the overwhelming majority of women, and sold them the idea that motherhood is lesser, kids are a drain instead of a blessing, and marriage is a form of oppression/drastic inequality. Some of us truly weigh our options and conclude that family life is not for us…but so many, like the ones Deti and BV know…simply never put any thought into it. I would never say that women shouldn’t or can’t have careers “because vagina”, yet I’d caution the upcoming generations, male and female members alike, to take a long look at what they honestly want out of life and *actively* work towards it.
Thank you again goFigure!
Your welcome.
I think Go Figure is a she, yes?
Oh, wow. So many places I could go with this. Lets try this:
When I visit planet earth, I usually claim to be human.
As I observe humans, I often wonder if this is wise!
Sue, nobody is asking you to agree 100% or to conform 100%. For example, tsk believes marriage and children are too much of a risk for a man in today’s culture. So he’s decided not to marry or even date, but instead to focus on his other goals and dreams for himself. I am ok with that. It’s his life. I even understand, even if I personally seek marriage w a marriage minded man. I don’t say to tsk every time he posts, “why don’t you believe in marriage tsk? I do. Everybody does. That doesn’t make sense to me.” He doesn’t say to me, “RPG why do you believe in marriage? I don’t. How can you believe in marriage if I don’t?” Etc. I just figure that’s how he sees it, that’s how I see it. We don’t have to convince each other otherwise. In fact my understanding his point of view makes me understand even more so why being a good partner is important in marriage, and how if I do remarry, I must NOT be that type of woman so often discussed in the sphere.
If you believe tsk or Ton or whoever is wrong about women and careers, that’s fine. But to continue to bring it up over and over, like either you have to change your beliefs or they do, that you can’t agree to disagree and let it go, well that’s where you might want to reconsider…
Ok tarn, you can interpret it as I should have listened to the more experienced, regardless of gender, that is also true!
Exactly Tarn, woman have been sold this “you can have it all” mentality, when in reality nobody can. You can have A or B, but probably not A and B, and definitely not A-Z. But women practically kill themselves trying to bc they have been mislead its possible. I feel for the many women, and their families, I see caught up in the madness!
Go Figure I could have sworn you had said you were a female chemistry teacher but maybe I misremembered that and if so please ignore my confusion. It really doesn’t matter to me if you are male or female! 🙂
Or I should say it makes no difference… 🙂
Re gender and careers, there are plenty of factors other than IQ and physical strength that determine what jobs a person can do. For example, I’ve seen people flame out (and been the agent of that flaming out, in some cases) because they kept playing harmful politics even though they were bad at it. I’ve seen people limit their careers severely because they were afraid to do anything for which they hadn’t been formally ‘trained.’ Lots of people fail because they are poor listeners, many because they can’t speak or write in ways that others can readily understand or be convinced by. etc.
Others fail because listen they do not.
Or let emotions get the best of them they do.
Anakin a failure because of these factors he was
Lol. Not that it is untrue that a decent amount of women nowadays just don’t listen to men “because mansplaining”. Experienced men are definitely worth listening to! Forget the Fems who think otherwise!
As do I, Bloom. My own mother has a great self-owned business like you do…pays not only her bills, but also that of my youngest sister and brother (they are over 19, but still live at home). Yet what she’d really like is to only do part time work, and have a traditional man around the house. My young sisters say they want the same…but their dating records speak otherwise. I know I say it a lot, but things are not as they should be. 😦
I consistently test at slightly over 130, and my lover is about 120.
Ok Tarn, I have to ask, where do you consistently take an IQ test? I have never in my life had an IQ test nor have I ever herd of one being offered.
GoFigure,
Yeah, most haven’t. 🙂
I took one in AP Bio in high school, as part of an extra credit assignment involving genetics and whether intelligence is hereditary. Then I took one in college for a Psychology course. Both times I scored slightly over 130. I don’t know why/when my guy took one, I just trust him when he says he’s about 120.
Regardless of IQ, I think that while intelligence is an awesome trait to have and cultivate, it’s more important that people be kind and empathetic towards one another. 🙂
Sorry if I made it sound like “oh yeah, I take on every year, y’know, just because”. I may be weird, but I’m not that weird. 😛
Thank you, Tarnished, I always look forward to your posts. 🙂
Sue, I believe that Success comes down to 3 factors:
1. Does the person have the intelligence/IQ needed to pursue X?
Agreed. In a lot of fields, that’s where the rubber meets the road. In other fields, like the ones I’m more close to, it’s not so much IQ, but other intangibles. Like with a piano player it would be having an “ear.” (Whatever that means.) With photography it would be having an “eye.” That’s harder to measure. I don’t know if there’s any test out there that can accurately and with no variation, determine if more men or more women have a better “eye” or an “ear.” (There are all types of “eyes” and “ears”!) We can go with how many are interested, how many stick with it, but that still doesn’t really determine how many have the “eye” or the “ear” (or what have you).
2. Does the person have the physical ability to pursue X?
Indeed! And this area is where I think many women fail to get it. Like the aforementioned 5’2″ firefighter. I wouldn’t want her trying to drag me out of a building! Some jobs you just can’t do, you aren’t physically up to it. Just like I guess a tone deaf person might not be a great singer (despite “wanting” to) or a color blind person might not be a good landscape painter (assuming they paint in color!). If you can’t, you can’t.
3. Does the person have the common sense to take an unbiased look at the first two factors, and see if there’s anything else that they’d be better at and therefore should do instead?
YES, this is what I’ve been saying too. I think a lot of women would prefer to stay at home, but they are being “shamed” in this current political climate into thinking they “mustn’t.” But there’s also the whole economy thing, where they often can’t afford to, and that’s a shame. I believe that if women were independently wealthy, that many of them would not have a career, or maybe have some part-time fun hobby/career (like making flaming purple widgets), and would be just as happy at home raising the kids.
Feminism has hurt the overwhelming majority of women, and sold them the idea that motherhood is lesser, kids are a drain instead of a blessing, and marriage is a form of oppression/drastic inequality.
Again I agree. I feel fortunate that I was raised by my parents, because I saw how things should be.
And another part to that is, however, that my dad has encouraged my mom to pursue her dreams and talents. For those feminists who believe that marriage is a “form of oppression,” with couples like my parents, it hasn’t been. Women are allowed to blossom and bloom. I’ve seen several marriages around me of husband/wife teams where they both make fantastic widgets together, and seem very happy. Then if or when the wife gets pregnant, she will likely turn to making widgets part time, with her husband’s support, and as the kids get older, she will slide back into to full-time widget making. It sounds perfect!
What is causing me some conflict (and concern) is some red pill guys suggesting (this is an overview of what I’ve been reading for a while) that women shouldn’t make those widgets, a man is best left to making widgets, and widgets made by women are inferior anyway. Her widget-making is only taking away a perfectly good widget-making job away from a man. The only reason she ever wanted to get into widget-making in the first place was because some hairy-legged feminist convinced her she ought to, and if left to her own devices, she would be much happier raising babies and would never have an interest in widget-making at all.
This amazes me, but also I worry — will guys who feel this way pass this down to their future daughters? Will their daughters be told that if they were a son, they could pursue full-time widget education and widget-making, but as a daughter, they will not? Will they be unsupportive of their wives wanting to do anything outside of the home? (Will they not do what my dad has done for my mom?)
RPG: Sue, nobody is asking you to agree 100% or to conform 100%. For example, tsk believes marriage and children are too much of a risk for a man in today’s culture. So he’s decided not to marry or even date, but instead to focus on his other goals and dreams for himself. I am ok with that. It’s his life. I even understand, even if I personally seek marriage w a marriage minded man. I don’t say to tsk every time he posts, “why don’t you believe in marriage tsk? I do. Everybody does. That doesn’t make sense to me.” He doesn’t say to me, “RPG why do you believe in marriage? I don’t. How can you believe in marriage if I don’t?”
Well, I have a few problems with TSK’s point of view, but I think my biggest objection has been answered. He’s not going to have kids. So he’s not going to be telling any future daughter of his that she should not pursue a career doing something she loves, because “F—- her feelings, she should be raising kids instead!” LOL. (And he did kinda say some things like that.)
But, since TSK isn’t going to have any daughters, then I guess it’s all in the realm of opinion, so that’s cool. 🙂
Another thing I forgot to add: We talk about opinions, like, “I wouldn’t want to do this.” Since it’s someone else saying what they want to do, then it’s easier to say, “That’s your life, you do what you want.”
Part of this conversation is people telling other people, “YOU shouldn’t be doing this.” Telling somebody that they SHOULDN’T do something isn’t the same thing as saying “I personally don’t want to get married.” or “I choose to not pursue a full time career right now for the sake of my children.”
I am much more at ease with the common sense warning: “If you want kids (and most women do) realize that you can’t have both a full time career and kids.” This is true. If you’re going to have kids, they deserve your all. At the same time, I’d also personally caution women that it’s good for their mental and emotional health to have some past time outside of raising kids and a home, because they are eventually going to face an empty nest. And, if they always had a desire to do something (write a novel, learn photography) then it’s okay that they do that. As I said before, I see a lot of unhappiness, bitterness, and women who do feel resentful because they always had this burning “spark” inside them to do some of these things, and they pushed it back and ignored it, or felt guilty thinking they should do it. If that spark is in there, it’s because God put it there, and they should do something about it, in some form, during their life.
Sue,
Perhaps read this you should,
And stop oppressing yourself you might
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2016/01/08/the-proverbs-31-woman/
For 900 years experience the Galaxy I have.
Learn much one can if eyes open they are
Learn much one can if eyes open they are
Yoda, many blind people with no functioning eyes can see better than those with their eyes wide open.
Have your 900 yrs taught you anything about this?
After 900 years, learned “figures of speech” I have
Though “your speech” I did learn not.
Crow taste like chicken it does?
Sue, yes, if things change enough that I consider marriage, I would tell my daughters to focus on family over all else. They have far more time to study and practice their hobby than they do to marry and have children. If they spend life until thirty-five raising children, they have forty more years to study and practice their hobbies. If they spend life until thirty-five studying and practicing their hobbies, they have forty more years to study and practice their hobbies, because they lost their chance to raise children.
The idea that all the women out there that have been told to go for it, you can have it all, free yourself are bitter, unhappy, and resentful because they were discouraged from doing anything but being a mother is laughable. Women have been told that they could do anything they want, so go for it. Well, except settle down with a man and a few children, because then you are failing yourself.
If my daughters are going to sigh and wonder, “what if…” I would rather they have a husband and some children to ask, “What’s wrong, mom?” than to sit in an empty house and lay down in an empty bed with no one to soothe her doubts.
The Shadowed Knight
“Hey, you know, we are keeping half of the population out of the workforce. What kind of ideas do they have to offer?”
“I don’t know, there must be a reason why we keep them out…”
“Nonsense, what is the worst that could happen?”
All sorts of horrors.
“Oh, shit. Yeah, nevermind.”
The Shadowed Knight
Bloom, can you fix the HTML tag in my moderated post? It should be without those spaces after the “”.
The Shadowed Knight
[Fixed! Scary photos, btw! (shudder…)]
I’d like to comment on the “men are better than women at just about everything” comments that have been floating around because I think something important has been missed. And that is “work ethic”. Yes, intelligence matters but hard work can overcome that in many cases. I’m sure everyone knows people that they have worked with that are NOT naturally gifted and still succeed anyway. They succeed by working hard and I do not mean physically hard … I mean MOTIVATED … want to succeed, put in extra hours, learn stuff on their own time that they can apply to work, etc.
This is important because men and women approach work very differently. For most women … work is not a life goal … as mentioned here many times … a woman who has children would PREFER to be at home with them; work is just not the primary focus in her life after children … as it should be. It is even that way before children, work is usually not the primary focus in a woman’s life. Now consider the number of women … single or married … work are in the workforce … nearly ALL OF THEM would rather be doing something else … like be with their family … than be at work.
Not so for a man. For a man … in many cases … his work IS HIS LIFE. He puts his all into it. This is genetic and cultural all rolled into one. Rollo (TRM) calls this the “Burden of Performance” a man’s worth is judged on his performance … his ability to compete against men and succeed … for succeeding means he would be a good provider. And a good provider is what most women want, when it comes to choosing a BB. In other words … if a man does not work and be successful at it … enough so to provide for himself AND provide for a wife/children … HE IS WORTHLESS AS A MAN. It is that serious … for a man if you do not work and succeed at it … you have no value.
Again, not so for women. Women have value for simply existing … they have a Vagina and at the bare minimum can reproduce pretty much at will. Almost all women can find a man who would have her. And again … having children and being a mother … adds value. It is this very thing that drives a lot of men batty (like me !!!) these short, fat, stupid, lazy, cunts … something no man of value would ever dream of wanting as f-toy, needless to say a wife … walk around the world with the nose stuck up the air … like a bunch of conceited cunts. “I’m miss perfect and demand a tall handsome man !!!”. The reason this is infuriating to a lot of men … is because in a way it is true. She has value for just existing … while I have to work my ass off.
What this boils down to, is that all other things being equal … a man will work harder and be more determined to succeed because the stakes are much higher for him. In many cases, this is what makes men more successful at careers than women.
Rocket, may I ask you — do you read my posts? I mean this in all kindness. On 7:32 a.m. today I wrote this:
Sue wrote: “A good work ethic has been lost in this modern world of political correctness, where everyone deserves a trophy, “it’s not fair that you’re better (because you worked harder), so we’re going to take away from you and give it to someone else.” But that’s where I’m coming from.
In the case of talents and ambitions, I was saying before that I realize that men, being the breadwinners, often have more drive, ambition, confidence, and this translates to more success. That’s fine. There’s nothing “unfair” in that.
Where I was tripping up is that it sounded like some guys (but I don’t think go Figure) were saying that, “It doesn’t matter what you do, how hard you try, as a female you’ll never be as good as a man.” But that does not align with what I’ve witnessed personally. I have never seen a connection between gender and excellence, it’s always been work ethic. Those who don’t work as hard, don’t get as far. It’s that simple.”
In my experience, those with a good work ethic get ahead. There are so many variables for success, as someone else mentioned, you can be brilliant, but if you’re temperamental or unreliable, then you won’t be successful, or I would say if you have a huge ego and won’t take criticism. So much goes into it. But at the core of it all, is work ethic. Work ethic comes before “talent,” even. I’d rather have an excellent work ethic but only a moderate amount of talent, than a poor work ethic and a lot of talent. With a poor work ethic, all that inborn talent is just going to waste.
As for the rest of your post, Rocket, uh, there’s a lot of anger there. I guess it’s good to let it all out, but … okay whatever.
TSK wrote: Sue, yes, if things change enough that I consider marriage, I would tell my daughters to focus on family over all else. They have far more time to study and practice their hobby than they do to marry and have children. If they spend life until thirty-five raising children, they have forty more years to study and practice their hobbies. If they spend life until thirty-five studying and practicing their hobbies, they have forty more years to study and practice their hobbies, because they lost their chance to raise children.
In all honesty, I don’t think you’ve really thought this out thoroughly. That timeline isn’t going to work for everyone. Some women would be better suited studying for a few years, then having the family in their mid-late 20s. If they have a passionate desire to study something right away, why not get that out of the way sooner, when their minds are young and it’s easier to study.
But if a woman really doesn’t have any concrete idea of what she likes or wants to do, then it sounds fine to go right into marriage and family. As I keep on saying, one size fits all.
Then of course there are those women who want to pursue something that has a shelf life, like maybe ballet. It don’t think it would work to just start to study ballet at age 35.
The idea that all the women out there that have been told to go for it, you can have it all, free yourself are bitter, unhappy, and resentful because they were discouraged from doing anything but being a mother is laughable. Women have been told that they could do anything they want, so go for it. Well, except settle down with a man and a few children, because then you are failing yourself.
Where have you been? Seriously, where have you been? This is so commonplace it’s not even funny. It’s not only a female thing, it happens to everybody. Parents pressure their kid into a more “practical” career, and all the kid wants to do is play the guitar. Sure, maybe guitar is not a good career move for everyone, and I don’t argue that finding something else “to fall back on” would be a good idea. But if you squelch that passion for the guitar forever, sooner or later that kid will feel regret, bitterness, sadness, and “what if.” Anyone will have this, not just women. And often they do it to themselves. They decide that they aren’t “good enough,” or they’re embarrassed to try to learn at an “old age,” or whatever it is. There are a plethora of people out there who are living with bittersweet regret because they wasted a lot of time putting off doing something that they loved.
Rather than go round and round with you about this, I’m just going to link to Charle’s Stanley’s book, “Success God’s Way.” http://www.amazon.com/Success-Gods-Way-Achieving-Contentment/dp/0785265902/ It helps guide each person to find what they should do. I would think this would be the best answer for anyone in the Christian faith. Rather than have your parents pressure you into the mold that they believe is best, take it to God, let Him guide you. All I can say is, woe betide anyone who tries to stop another person from realizing the best plan that God has for them.
Oops, “one size does NOT fit all.” LOL, I wish I could edit that!
Perhaps “one size fits most” the common sentiment around here it is
Rocket / Sue….motivation and hard work are certainly very important. I don’t think you can conclude that because a young woman intends to have children at some future time, and ideally to stay home with them most or full-time, that that will keep her from working flat-out while she *is* working full-time. I’ve known several women who have done just that: superb full-time (more than full-time) work performance while childless, then after children seeking less-intensive environments.
I’ve known others who have maintained very demanding careers while also mothering 2-3 children, and as near as I can tell, doing both parts very well. One thing to remember is, different people have different energy levels, and some can handle combinations of stresses that others can’t/
That’s an excellent point, David.
Different jobs are easier for different types too, like people who are team-players/group-oriented vs people who do their best work alone.
Bloom: I edited and discarded several responses to the man-hating cunt Sue and her comment : “As for the rest of your post, Rocket, uh, there’s a lot of anger there. I guess it’s good to let it all out, but … okay whatever.”
I don’t know if she is a troll or just a fucking moron. I suppose she has no idea that lawyers are actually trained to use that tactic in the Family Court. Probably not, cause she’s a virgin and never been married and never been divorced but a FUCKING expert on all those things. So yeah, the lawyer comes out by insulting the man … calling him a pedophile and accusing him of molesting his own children and then when the guy gets PISSED and responds with the same sort of HATE directed at him … the lawyer appeals to the judge … see … he’s just ANGRY so you can ignore the facts, ignore the law, ignore reason, ignore reality and rule in favor of my my client. AND THE TWO FACED LYING CUNT ON THE BENCH DOES EXACTLY THAT. And I am speaking of the judge and the other man-hating cunts who run the family courts. They are all on the same team … the RAPE-MEN team.
I wrote out several M3 style diatribes at Sue and her fucked up entitled attitude and discarded them. Truth is … that stupid cunt has no idea what its like to be a man and have his life destroyed by cunts like her. Cunts like her think rape is bad. She has no clue what its like. I look at rape like what she envisions it looks like and laugh, really ???? . Wanna know what rape is, Sue ??? … rape is taking a baseball bat and covering it tar and setting it aflame and having it shoved up your ass, raw.. And leaving it there for days, weeks, months, years and laughing and mocking the poor bastard while he howls in pain and agony … oh … you’re just ANGRY so I can ignore what you’re saying …. hahah.. 1 +1 = 3,128 !!! See I’m a genius … does your ass hurt yet ?
Sue, you stupid fucking cunt, you have no idea what life is about. What anything is about. I had a flaming baseball bat shoved up my ass 12 years ago and its still burning my soul … every minute of every day. I wish I had only been raped because that pain would have faded long ago. I wish I had blown my brains out; but I didn’t. So now I just burn with hate. Hate for fucked up in the head, lying, delusional, two-faced, manipulative cunts like you. I FUCKING HATE YOU.
Bloom … dare you to publish this. I tried to be nice. I failed. You should have banned that cunt Sue when you had that chance. Fucking man hating troll. I’m done here. I tried to be nice. I don’t need cunts like her opening old wounds. Or you assisting her in doing it. We’re done. Good look.
Publish this. Dare you. A man would. M3 would. M3 did. And then walked away.
Rocket, all I wanted to do was talk about the work ethic! I will let RPG deal with the rest of your comments. I’m not taking them personally. I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time. Truly, I am.
And speaking of the work ethic, Tarnished and David, you are so right. The work ethic is vital, and I’ve known a lot of women who work like dogs and have all sort of energy, and a lot of what fuels their work ethic is their devotion for their kids.
Tarnished, right, there are different personality types, and some people will blossom in some jobs, and drag in others.
Nowadays with a lot of jobs being done online, it’s possible for people to work remotely, and sometimes be self-employed. I know of some successful authors who work at home, and sometimes they use gender-neutral pen names. A woman who breaks into that field will have no extra perks given to her because of her gender. She must succeed or fail on her own merits. Same with everybody else. With these types of online jobs, anyone can succeed, if they just put in the work.
Tarn or Liz, as INTJ women could you explain to Sue why she is frustrating so many people here.
What is causing me some conflict (and concern) is some red pill guys suggesting (this is an overview of what I’ve been reading for a while) that women shouldn’t make those widgets, a man is best left to making widgets, and widgets made by women are inferior anyway.
Yeah, some think that way.
There’s not much you can do about it, especially if the man in question is basing his belief off personal experience with shoddy/lazy female coworkers. It happens. The best you or I, as women in the workplace, can do is continue to use our skills and motivation to be exceptions to this “rule” so that another guy doesn’t have cause to say the same regarding us.
Her widget-making is only taking away a perfectly good widget-making job away from a man.
This always gets a chuckle out of me. On one hand, the manosphere talks about “women only do useless make-work jobs”. On the other, it’s “women are taking good jobs away from men who need them”. However, it sounds like more of a contradiction on the surface than it really is. A fair amount of jobs nowadays *are* actually just pencil pushing, bureaucratic nonsense, cubicle occupations, and both sexes eek out a living by them…but more women than men tend to go for these safe office jobs. A corresponding issue is that of Affirmative Action, where “minorities” like women (largest frickin minority there ever was, imo) truly *do* take jobs from men, in the name of “diversity” instead of y’know merit or real accomplishments. Given this, I don’t take much issue with the above argument. What I continue to not understand are the individual ‘spherians who complain about housewives leeching off their husbands and then denounce unmarried women who put in a full work week to support themselves. I can get two different men holding one of these views each…but when one commenter says both, I’m honestly at a loss as to what he wants women to do to survive. Beg on the streets? 😛
The only reason she ever wanted to get into widget-making in the first place was because some hairy-legged feminist convinced her she ought to, and if left to her own devices, she would be much happier raising babies and would never have an interest in widget-making at all.
The problem is that this is also true. I’m sure you know women who are on life paths, whatever they may be, that are incredibly different than what they’d prefer. I just think it can go both ways…there can be career women who desperately wish they were SAHM, and there are homemakers who regret giving up their jobs. The best anyone, woman or man, can do is to meditate on what *they* want out of life in the long run, then put all their motivation into making it a reality.
This amazes me, but also I worry — will guys who feel this way pass this down to their future daughters? Will their daughters be told that if they were a son, they could pursue full-time widget education and widget-making, but as a daughter, they will not? Will they be unsupportive of their wives wanting to do anything outside of the home? (Will they not do what my dad has done for my mom?)
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
There will always be people like this, just as there will always be people who are unsupportive towards their husbands and teach their sons that males are inferior. In case you haven’t noticed…our species kinda sucks, though some are suckier than others.
Sue, it sounds like you’re newer to the manosphere as a whole, or at least newer to the concept of commenting in it. Take it from me, it can be a rabbit hole. Even men who are decidedly RP or MGTOW can get overwhelmed with the amount of videos, blogs, forums, and comments sometimes. It’s a lot to take in, and not all of it is “good”. There’s pain, negativity, bitterness, and frequent lashing out by newbies. But there’s also great discussions, amazing posts, cool anecdotes, honest talks between the sexes you won’t find anywhere else…this is what keeps me coming back, other than my online MGTOW friends.
Your “job” is to take the good stuff that can help you and yours, but leave the rest behind. Not everything here resonates with me either…in fact, a lot of it doesn’t, because the gender roles/traits in my relationship are essentially reversed from what the Red Pill world says should work. By RP logic, my guy and I shouldn’t even *be* together, because I should be revolted by him. But for 10 years I haven’t been, because again, generalizations begin to fall apart at the singular level. I think if you remember that 1. You likely won’t change anyone’s mind, and 2. It’s pointless to take offense from a claim that doesn’t pertain to yourself, you may have an easier time here.
Gotcha, FB.
My most recent comment overlapped since I’m on my phone, but I hope it’s enough. If not, I’ll try again, or Liz can tomorrow.
Sue, this isn’t my blog and I’m not going to try and tell you what to do, but I highly recommend letting this topic drop. It’s no longer a dead horse…kinda looking more like ground beef by now. I can see where you’re coming from, but it isn’t conducive to the rest of the demographic here. And whether you mean it or not, a lot of what you’re saying is just rubbing salt into open wounds of the men.
If you’re serious about having more conversations, I invite you to use my blog. It’s no longer “active” (as in, no new posts) but it does have numerous manospherian topics covered by my egalitarian/Purple Pill perspective on things. And since it gets views but few current comments, it should be…safer…to ask questions there. Less pain going around is better for everyone. I don’t want any of the guys here hurting more, so I offer this option as a fellow commenter.
Tarnished wrote: The best you or I, as women in the workplace, can do is continue to use our skills and motivation to be exceptions to this “rule” so that another guy doesn’t have cause to say the same regarding us.
Yeah, I guess that’s all that can be done!
A corresponding issue is that of Affirmative Action, where “minorities” like women (largest frickin minority there ever was, imo) truly *do* take jobs from men, in the name of “diversity” instead of y’know merit or real accomplishments. Given this, I don’t take much issue with the above argument.
I see what you’re saying. And I agree, there are a lot of people getting jobs only due to affirmative action, and that’s not right.
What I’m finding a little frustrating (not against you, please understand) is that I do understand a lot of this, I do say that I understand (I posted earlier that I would be heartbroken if I’d only gotten a job because of my gender, instead of my merits). But sometimes it seems like nobody reads that and then they get this idea that I mean something I don’t. Oh, perhaps I do my fair share of misunderstanding too. Such is life!
I can get two different men holding one of these views each…but when one commenter says both, I’m honestly at a loss as to what he wants women to do to survive. Beg on the streets? 😛
I know. I know! You know it has really helped for you to articulate this, because it can be so frustrating to hear people talk like this. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks it makes no sense. (To say the least!)
The problem is that this is also true. I’m sure you know women who are on life paths, whatever they may be, that are incredibly different than what they’d prefer. I just think it can go both ways…there can be career women who desperately wish they were SAHM, and there are homemakers who regret giving up their jobs.
Yes, that is true! That is one of the other things I’ve been saying here, multiple times. There are a lot of women who really don’t have any specific career that they’re dying to pursue, but they are pressured into thinking they need to do something, so they do. Why not allow them to be housewives (if that’s what would make them the happiest) without trying to shame them?
The best anyone, woman or man, can do is to meditate on what *they* want out of life in the long run, then put all their motivation into making it a reality.
Absolutely agree with this, 100%.
There will always be people like this, just as there will always be people who are unsupportive towards their husbands and teach their sons that males are inferior. In case you haven’t noticed…our species kinda sucks, though some are suckier than others.
You’re right, what can you do. There are women who are complete shrews and it’s an awful thing to see them demoralize their husbands.
Sue, it sounds like you’re newer to the manosphere as a whole, or at least newer to the concept of commenting in it. Take it from me, it can be a rabbit hole. Even men who are decidedly RP or MGTOW can get overwhelmed with the amount of videos, blogs, forums, and comments sometimes. It’s a lot to take in, and not all of it is “good”. There’s pain, negativity, bitterness, and frequent lashing out by newbies.
THERE SURE IS!!!! There is a lot of negativity.
But there’s also great discussions, amazing posts, cool anecdotes, honest talks between the sexes you won’t find anywhere else…this is what keeps me coming back, other than my online MGTOW friends.
Okay, I will be on the lookout for them. Actually, this discussion with you right now is one of the great discussions I’m finding! 🙂
Your “job” is to take the good stuff that can help you and yours, but leave the rest behind. Not everything here resonates with me either…in fact, a lot of it doesn’t, because the gender roles/traits in my relationship are essentially reversed from what the Red Pill world says should work. By RP logic, my guy and I shouldn’t even *be* together, because I should be revolted by him. But for 10 years I haven’t been, because again, generalizations begin to fall apart at the singular level. I think if you remember that 1. You likely won’t change anyone’s mind, and 2. It’s pointless to take offense from a claim that doesn’t pertain to yourself, you may have an easier time here.
Okay, I think it’s starting to sink in. Please be patient with me! Thank you! 🙂
What I’m still going to have to get used to is … forgive me for saying it, but the rules of debate here are unfamiliar. I would like to give my opinion, and I guess what I need to do is just say, “This is my opinion.” And not actually respond to anyone else’s opinion? Because it seems like every time I do that, it just spirals down from there. That’s not the kind of online debate I’m used to doing.
You seem to be able to tell me what you think, and we can go back and forth and it’s fine, but it doesn’t work that way with everyone here. Anyway, please tell me what else I need to know, and in the meantime I’ll try to just share my opinion (because as far as I know, I’m “allowed” that, right?), and try to leave it at that.
Tarnished wrote: If you’re serious about having more conversations, I invite you to use my blog. It’s no longer “active” (as in, no new posts) but it does have numerous manospherian topics covered by my egalitarian/Purple Pill perspective on things. And since it gets views but few current comments, it should be…safer…to ask questions there. Less pain going around is better for everyone. I don’t want any of the guys here hurting more, so I offer this option as a fellow commenter.
Thanks, that helps.
Yes, I do have questions, and I think you’re an excellent person to ask. If you want to take the discussion over to your blog, that sounds good.
I can let this topic drop, that’s fine. You’ve helped answer my question anyway.
Honestly, not too frustrated by her. Sometimes it feels good to just beat on someone. She is not too bright, and she does not know when to stop fighting.
Long story short, men stupidly freed women, and you women responded by destroying what men had spent centuries building. You women tore down the greatest country the world has ever known because it bothered your feelings, and now you are debating if women are useful. In a sick way, it is pretty funny, if for nothing else but how oblivious to everything you are. In the end we will keep women barefoot and pregnant not because they enjoy it–though they do–but because that is the only way to keep you from fucking everything up.
The Shadowed Knight
Thank you.
I think that it’s the wisest course of action at the moment. I’ve already approved your first comment over on my blog, go ahead and ask whatever you’d like on the less commented posts.
Bloom,
I hope you’re ok with me “stealing away” a commenter from your blog? I just wanted to help ease the situation back down, especially given Rocket’s (and potentially other lurkers) very real and justified pain. There are places to ask newbie questions and places to not, and Sue hasn’t learned the difference yet. Let me know if I committed a faux pas here…
Sue, I’ve been catching up on the comments, and don’t worry, I think all women that find the manosphere at some point have questions about the ideas that don’t add up. I was going to say that you sound like u have a lot in common with Tarn. And yes, it is extremely frustrating to listen to the contradicting ideas – that is unless you just decide to not let it be “extremely frustrating”and simply more of a reflection of what these men are dealing with. Some of them just come to red pill blogs to vent, some come because no one else is talking about these issues this directly… But more and more I think some just want to vent. Some of the ones who are still married are married to ridiculous women in their forties that throw weeping tantrums like a two year old, and these men are bitter that they didn’t choose someone else. And when they take the red pill, they start to feel like they’ve been cheated out of a good life and marriage. It can be extremely toxic for them unless they move into a stage of acceptance that yes, they were lied to, but they also picked a highly immature mate and partner which they refuse to take responsibility for. I’ve mentioned before on Rollos blog that sex and expectations should be talked about extensively before marriage, and had men accuse me of blaming the men for picking women who didn’t hold up the end of a bargain contract, meanwhile this bargain was never even talked about between most couples. there are some blogs that are much more hostile to women, and it reflects the stage of grief the men are going through. The ones that hated hearing that these issues should be discussed prior to commitment are akin to the feminists that hate being told that getting drunk can lead to having sex with someone. They just assumed it would work out, and dont like hearing they could have had some control over it.
But I liked reading some of your comments, a lot of it is ridiculous rubbish, but I think the harmonious commenters see no point in arguing those things.
And sorry… I’m on my phone so I can’t pull quotes and things, but a lot of what the men said here was great and on point.
But I sympathize with you in your frustrations… I think even the part of the red pill that asserts that married women just use their husbands, that men and women should have opposing goals that hurt each other’s best interest, proves that at least some parts of it are not really for females to “get.”. Especially for female commentators who are in great marriages or in relationships like Tarn, who see that there can be “compromise” between the goals of the sexes. It’s mostly for the men who are coping with a divorce or with bitterly trying to make a red pill marriage work with a woman who IS just using him. Or for the commentators who ignore the irrationality and seek to have light hearted discussions about these topics.
And (sorry Bloom
) the same ones to proudly say “Fuck your feelings” are the first that would be butt-hurt if you turned it around on them and callously spoke that into the situation where they find themselves in being married to a 43 year old toddler. While they hate the truth that they *picked* this shifty wife, no female commentators here would dare tell them “Fuck your feelings” regarding it. So again, there’s a double standard in relating and it’s set up for grieving men to handle being lied to. I think they forget that women have also been lied to, and literally set up to fail in some ways (in finding happiness).
I think it was a good suggestion, tarn. Thanks!
Men and women, women and men, do not need to be enemies. We have been taught its a “battle between the sexes” when in reality it need not be. Too often it is, but it doesn’t need to be.
Any idea how to get a post to show up on Tarn’s site?
Go figure, do you mean a comment? I am not sure but Tarn will likely be along shortly. Sometimes comments “close” on posts after a certain number of days unless the setting are changed. Happy reading!
No, none of my posts have time restrictions. It was just that I have it set to moderate a person’s first comment.
GoFigure, both you and Sue are okay now.
Dragonfly, RPG, Tarnished, thank you! Thank you so much. Dragonfly, at lot of what you said was exactly what I was thinking. You really have defined well what’s going on for me. I’ll leave it at that and go meet Tarnished and goFigure over on her forum. Cheers!
so any day now we’ll start seeing great social an national improvements because of feminism and women working and what not?