attraction, bad boys, battle of the sexes, blue pill, break up, break ups, casual sex, commitment, courtship, dating, divorce, feminism, gender, love, marriage, red pill, relationships, romance, sex
Sorry, I have been busy with real life endeavors as of late and have not had much chance to write, or even comment! But rest assured, I am still here and all is well!
I have an idea stewing in my head but it’s not quite complete, so perhaps for now perhaps you guys can share some ideas for topics you’d like to see me tackle and discuss them among yourselves? I’m all ears…
Have a GREAT weekend!
I think so, too, but I could be wrong. It just doesn’t seem like an example of Game from the many topics I’ve read on the RP subreddit. There’s no underlying manipulation involved in what Larry said, just like there’s no underlying manipulation between my guy and I, when we laid down the fact that protection *must* be used with other partners since we don’t. Otherwise…no sex between us. It’s not a threat or form of coercion, just a fact.
“What puts this under the Game umbrella, rather than the Regular Adult Discussion umbrella?””
Tarn, I think it definitely applies to red pill discussion because it represents how things work out well when a woman is “red pill,” or otherwise, has traditional values and concepts about what it means to be a wife. Being loyal, being trustworthy, being someone who actually contributes and makes his life overall better for having married her… these are all red pill women goals, and they stem from basic traditional Christianity. You can find all of them in the Proverbs 31 woman, which is basically God’s idea of perfect femininity. “A virtuous woman is her husband’s *crown.*” And there are so many verses in Proverbs besides that one chapter that are basic red pill women concepts.
So Larry’s wife and her behavior, his seeking out someone like that, is to me, red pill. There seems to be two camps in the manosphere: people who think marriage in all it’s forms is blue pill, and people who believe that married men can actually be red pill and make it work in their (usually already legal) marriage. Larry may not be red pill, but his marriage and the model of it, really does seem to be.
And I can see how someone could see it all as “purple pill,” because if women were all more like Larry’s wife, most manospherians think men still would have no need to be red pill. I actually think differently, I see the red pill as a way to bring back positive masculinity, but I also see how it’s not applied (always) in ways that actually help society. It’s not meant to help *society*, it’s meant to help men cope with a new, quite horrible society.
Ok, ok, ok you guys… What’s all this? I support BV and Ton’s and Tarn’s (any anyone’s) right to decide they do not want to marry but I also support other people choosing marriage. Marriages can be good, as well as bad. We often forget that around the red pill but some people truly are happily married (like our dear Liz) and wouldn’t we all agree that she, her husband, and their children are all healthier and happier for it? I doubt Liz (or Mike) advises their sons to never marry, but rather to marry wisely. But only Liz could really answer that… I would be curious to know!
Making another comment to get updates…
welcome back! don’t let this undo all your destressing and down time 🙂
We had a wonderful trip. Now I have been playing catch up! 🙂
(sorry, this is so long, but I think it’s kind of important on what BV brought up about sons and marriage)
It’s something I’m trying to study right now actually, even before BV’s comment about offering our sons up to chaos just for the sake of romance. I want to be able to help our sons find a wife who is a rare treasure, help him know what traits to look and vet for…. But I also want him to be red pill in mindset and understand that marriage may not be his pursuit if he can’t find this rare jewel.
A red pill wife should do these things:
“A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband” Proverbs 12:4 She should working on and growing in maturity towards becoming someone who is truly good, not just talks good and looks good, but actually faithfully walks it out day in and day out.
To us, my husband and I, because we’re Christians we would want him to pick a Christian woman who is relying on God’s help in this… because we don’t believe people can adhere to such strict guidelines without His daily power in their lives. If he doesn’t for whatever reason, we’ll still love him and stand by him, and we’ll love on her like she’s our own daughter. I want to treat his future wife with respect and love and cherish her because my son does, so I’ll respect religious differences, even if it makes me uncomfortable).
I do believe that there are people out there who are amazing, good people and don’t believe in God, and I do think he could find a woman that would be good who was not Christian, but I also believe that unbelievers are still sinners, imperfect and in need of Christ’s power that would change some of the nuances in their behavior… because they’d understand that they’re living for God, and that everything they do (not just some things) are of great importance, because they are ultimately doing it for Him. This kind of thinking just changes a person’s whole outlook in dramatic ways. So ultimately, being a woman of God is important to us, hopefully I can help him understand also how important it is.
“The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will not lack anything good.” Proverbs 31:11
So when I was studying this verse^ the Hebrew word for “trusts” translates “to be of good courage, to take heart and to feel confidence.” So her husband is able to actually have peace of mind that his wife will be able to handle things. She must be mentally strong, emotionally strong, and he feels confident in that she’s going to take care of running their home well so that he can focus on his work/ministry/life responsibilities without having to worry about what she’s doing or if she’s handling things properly.
I think this is crucial to a man being able to succeed at work and financially even. So her being emotionally stable and strong, having mental grit to see through whatever comes their way in marriage, is going to GREATLY benefit him, and also her as she reaps the benefits of this kind of character as well as how it helps him and their family. All this was displayed in Larry’s story.
“She rewards him with good, not evil, all the days of her life.” Proverbs 31:12
So again, even with this verse you can see that the red pill mindset is to anticipate women who DON’T do this, it’s a reaction to what immorality has caused in society. When men or women live without a God, they have a tendency to live for themselves. We see that all the time now with women who live with a focus on what rewards HER with good, what SHE can get out of every relationship. Even Christian women live like this all the time 😦 so we are prepared to help our sons understand that and avoid women like that as much as possible. I want them to have a life of their own choosing, with eyes wide open, so that they understand the detriment of divorce but also know the pro-masculine traits (usually depicted in game theory) that may help them to avoid it. One good thing that I think our marriage does show our sons is how my husband *does* act red pill in many ways with me – in front of them, and I know our oldest picks up on that. But the problem is that a lot of it is still up to me, women really do have moral agency, and I still have to decide to work on myself and keep these qualities, even though he does make it easier, it feels natural to want to be all these things for him. But I’m still a human and have to make good choices.
There’s two people involved in a marriage to make it work, and to me the red pill mindset for men is in reaction to women being used to not having to do or be anything valuable at all to her husband. If she brings nothing of value to him in these very clear, very doable ways, of course men are going to have a reaction like MGTOW. Women need to come back to these values (and yes, they are Christian values), if they want a happy marriage and a happy husband who faithfully provides for them in the future.
“Who can find a capable wife?
She is far more precious than jewels.” Proverbs 31:10
So yes, Larry found a true jewel of a wife, she is like a crown to him. There are still virtuous women out there, and men who find them will of course be elated and praise them… they are reaping the benefits of finding such a jewel, and they know it’s possible.
I don’t think there is any way to be a good stepfather.
I’ve seen a rare few, Fuzzie. However, they are so far removed from the one I had, or Larry had, as to nearly be a separate species of human. Not all stepfathers are abusive assholes like ours were. Just like any man, they *can* be good and loving.
Tarn, I think it definitely applies to red pill discussion because it represents how things work out well when a woman is “red pill,” or otherwise, has traditional values and concepts about what it means to be a wife. Being loyal, being trustworthy, being someone who actually contributes and makes his life overall better for having married her…
I absolutely agree that it belongs with RP discussion, Dragonfly. Like Ame, though, I’m unsure if it belongs under the category of Game, rather than something like Facts or Relationship Prerequisites. On the ither hand, as one of the “Purple Pillers” you speak of I admit that I could be missing something.
We often forget that around the red pill but some people truly are happily married (like our dear Liz) and wouldn’t we all agree that she, her husband, and their children are all healthier and happier for it?
Most likely. They do have a very good marriage. And yes, I’m personally against marriage and support singlehood/MGTOW above it, but there *are* quite a few commenters here that I’d say act as excellent examples of what it should be but rarely is. They are to be supported as well, imo.
I like your comment directly above this one, Dragonfly. Though I don’t agree with all of it, it makes sense from a Christian standpoint, is very well thought out, and shows you are proactive in thinking of what is best for your sons in a society that does not.
Kudos. 👍 We need more mom’s like you.
SFC Ton said:
you are only “married wisely” until she changes her mind. Then its you vs the full weight of the State
The stepfather thing is another bad bet. I have seen a lot of men try to be good stepfathers and only one succeed. Blood is thicker then water etc
“Like Ame, though, I’m unsure if it belongs under the category of Game, rather than something like Facts or Relationship Prerequisites.”
Maybe it’s from having a nutty mind, but I can see a way to connect it to Game discussion.
So I think a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, Dalrock discussed how women who were more inclined to be virtuous due to their upbringing or just their personal choices, needed less gaming by their husbands.
Even Stingray has a post on that to some degree, talking about a woman’s submissive or dominant traits and the correlation with gaming needs (wants? desires?) from her husband in behaviour.
So I can tie it into Game in my mind… but maybe that’s just me 😉
SFC Ton said:
That makes sense DF but I also see people tying Game to Deception vs Game as Frame Control and what not
So I can tie it into Game in my mind… but maybe that’s just me
Okay. I wasn’t thinking of it that way. Hmm.
Ton’s comment at 4:06 is indicative of my initial view. But maybe that’s something Bloom can talk about in a future post? Unless she already has, lol.
April 13, 2016 at 2:21 pm
rather than quoting any specific thing … i’ll just “Love!” your whole comment 🙂
all that you wrote about Larry’s story being RP makes sense. when the couple naturally act RP, it flows, well, naturally.
When the couple naturally act RP, it flows, well, naturally.
It really does seem to be the case, doesn’t it? When people act in the gender roles that truly suit them, relationships are just better all around. Nobody is fighting for dominance, or being pressured into a follower stance, because it’s just *allowed* to happen. I know my own relationship wouldn’t work if my guy and I had to force ourselves into roles that didn’t reflect our natural personality traits, and that most likely holds true for anyone.
Dragonfly, I agree with your post on April 13, 2016 at 2:21 pm.
I will teach my sons all of that as well.
I will also teach them to live good (golden rule) lives. I will teach them to avoid the ‘meat market’ (smv/mmv marketplace). That by avoiding the market the women around him will self select. Meaning, women with crappy values will not willingly spend time around men that have strong values. I will teach him that if he focuses on being the best person he can be, there will always be women wanting some of his time. That he should carefully evaluate women who choose to be part of his life and expect most of them to not be worth his time. That he should plan on a life with no wife. (If he finds a woman that is worth his time and they agree to share a life, then great. If not, then he is still great).
It does not seem that most here are willing to face the fact that women now compete for men. I will teach him that they most certainly do and that he can have his pick of the litter, if he decides he wants to.
Ton said:you are only “married wisely” until she changes her mind. Then its you vs the full weight of the State
You are absolutely correct. If my sons want to pursue a religious marriage and leave the state out of it. I will encourage them to do so. I will also advice them about prenuptial or even postnuptial agreements. I will try to teach them that the only thing of value in their marriage is their wife and kids. So, if their wife changes and becomes valueless, then the only other thing he needs to fight for is the kids. Unfortunately, the state almost guarantee’s he looses on this. Refusing to get married does not change that one bit.
goFigure – your sons are fortunate to have you for their dad.
I have to second gofigure. If your son finds a woman to partner up with that has a cooperative attitude, he is very fortunate. There is a very real possibility that he won’t.
It’s true, “game” is often perceived as some sort of deceptive/abusive/insincere/trickery when in fact it really is understanding women and how they think and what works and doesn’t work. Can it be used deceptively? Yes. But it is not inherently deceptive, I don’t think.
@ Fuzzie, there are such women out there bear. All is not lost!But yes, they will not be found in nightclubs or pick up joints or on Tinder or hooking up…
That leads to another issue. There are no venues that work for men. If they do, it is only temporary.
SFC Ton said:
If my sons want to pursue a religious marriage and leave the state out of it. I will encourage them to do so.
Fuzzy, dozens of couples have gotten married at my place. And many of them (not all) have been really good matches! Out of all of those, only 2 divorces so far. Many babies! So people must still be able to meet each other and make it happen. Where there is a will, there is a way…
Ok guys, new post to discuss! Finally 🙂 https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2016/04/13/the-power-of-your-thoughts/
You are blessed with being able to do weddings as an income source. Have you talked to any clergy about how weddings have fallen off a cliff in the last twenty years?
Fuzzie – “That to another issue. There are no venues that work for men. If they do, it is only temporary.”
i agree. this is a huge issue. where can single people actually meet others who are marriage material. huge.
It amazes me too bear but believe it or not where I live wedding venues are all booked in advance, not enough supply!
Ame how did you meet your hubby?
RPG – believe it or not, eHarmony.
Ame I know several couples who met that way! I didn’t find online dating worked for me but to be fair I only tried it for about 6 months. It felt like too many akward job interviews to me 🙂 I probably was not really in the right space, either. Newly divorced. Terrified of dating. It wasn’t good timing, too soon!
RPG – we’ve met quite a few, too. idk why it works for some and not for others. idk why it worked for us. i just know it did 🙂
i did wait for two years after my divorce to even think about dating. it helped with a lot of things for me to do that.
Yes Ame, I think I tried too soon. Dating at 35 was a shocking reality check vs. last dating at 19. I wouldn’t play “the game” and wasn’t ready for what I experienced. I wish I had waited, smart of you!
Basically bc I wasn’t into casual sex, I got rejected a lot. Oh well, I am OK with that! 🙂
there ARE good reasons to be rejected!
yeah … i met my first husband when i was 19, too … divorced at 41. definite culture shock.
i think this might be of interest to you:
Interesting, It does agree with my idea of having a marriage with out the state (an idea I got from other web sites). I definitely will not encourage my kids to have sex until after the ceremony. JMO.
yeah … that one’s iffy. i think there’s a place for a Right of Passage … that it does something in the way we think. but i can see where there are some personalities where their private vows could be more powerful than their public ones. also, i think the weight of an engagement is significant. it doesn’t seem to weigh as much as it did in biblical times – or at least in the worlds i’ve been in.
In general I totally agree.
Shawn Weiler (@pleetodora) said:
I like your website. I have known about the red pill for some time, but since recently researching it I am not certain that its’ proponents are totally accurate in their understanding of women. I would appreciate a woman’s perspective on certain statements (to follow) that I am skeptical about.
” I doubt Liz (or Mike) advises their sons to never marry, but rather to marry wisely. But only Liz could really answer that… I would be curious to know!”
Sorry Bloom, I just saw this last night.
I want our boys to have what we have. They want what we have, too.
I think the family unit is the best and most stable way to raise children (and there’s much evidence to support that), and I want lots of grandchildren. But we advise them to be cautious and try to lead by example. Mike gives them most of the advice, since he is a guy and they are little men. He definitely does believe in marriage, but he has also told them (in front of me), “Boys, your mother wants grandbabies so you are to ignore any advise she gives you about relationships and marriage.”
Insert “desperately” wants grandbabies above. I miss the baby stage very much. Even though they just about killed me LOL! Mike thinks I should volunteer to be a cuddler (those baby cuddlers at hospitals). Maybe I will at the next place.
Shawn Weiler (@pleetodora) said:
I don’t know if I buy this one.
“Women love pragmatically, they lack a capacity to love unconditionally for romantic partners, this love is reserved for their children.”
@ Shawn, that topic is well covered at another blog, rational male. I will dig up the link… It would take a whole post to explain that…maybe many…