A friend of mine lives with her son, daughter in law, and their two kids aged 4 and the younger is 8 months, both boys. They have the average blue pill life going, and while they are frantically trying harder and harder to work the script, it’s just not working.
They both have better than average jobs. They live in a ritzy neighborhood in a brand new house they just built. They drive brand new cars, wear name brand everything, and from all outside appearances they are a success. Living the American dream.
Except it’s really a house of cards. The couple spends every penny they have and then some. They are fortunate to have my friend living there and taking care of the kids, the cooking, and the cleaning in exchange for room and board because if they did not have that, they would be thousands even more underwater a month than they are.
Despite this they are busy spending, spending, spending anyway. Planning a two week vacation to Hawaii. Buying a boat. Impressing their friends with their latest and greatest aquisitions.
But the cracks are beginning to show. He confessed to his mother that he hates his life, feels trapped, wants to run away to Hawaii and leave it all behind. He’s even hinted at suicidal thoughts, feeling he is in over his head and despite working 60 hours a week, just can’t get ahead.
His wife shows little interest in her children, leaving the majority of their care to her mother in law. She pops pain pills and laxatives and despite being rail thin worries that she’s fat. She’s constantly going to doctors, insisting something is wrong, but they can’t seem to figure it out. (I wonder if she tells them about the pills? That may be the problem…) She works in a medical office as an assistant, but she says she wants to do something else, from home, but she doesn’t know what or take any steps to make it happen.
Yesterday, a box arrives in the mail from Blue Apron. Despite the fact that my friend is a gourmet cook who makes everything from scratch, even putting entire meals together ready to just put in the oven and bake, the daughter-in-law decides what they really “need” to make life worth is this dinner in a box that all her friends are doing.
I suppose it’s convenient, it all comes packed together, just what you need, ready to assemble into a “home cooked” meal. But that convenience is expensive, about $40 a day and she’s signed up to get 6 dinners a week. The amount of packaging is another issue, there is an incredible amount of waste associated with keeping all the fresh ingredients cold and protected in transit. All that — trash.
I would predict this couple will soon crash head first into some serious financial problems, and their marriage likely will not survive. Another broken family, thanks to the blue pill. I hope not but all signs say they are hell bent on barreling down this path right toward their doom. Sad.
My friend advised her son, “Finish the landscaping around the house and then SELL IT. Get out from under all this mess and live a simpler life and be happy.”
I hope he listens….
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Wow. That’s a BP life, sure, but it’s also just a plain stupid one. If your friend already cooks, why do they need pre-made dinners? If the DiL wants to work from home, why is she not taking any steps to make it a reality? If the son already works 60 hours a week yet still has trouble making ends meet even *with* his wife working, what would it take to make them realize that is not normal? Why are they planning 2 week vacations when they’re swimming in debt?
And, most importantly, when will he see that this lifestyle is quite literally going to be the death of him? Your friend’s son needs help. Real long-lasting help and life changes, not a crappy psychiatrist who’ll just prescribe “happy pills” to numb him. Please say he and his mother understand this and are working towards it?
I say he needs two things:
1. To figure out what is important in life and focus on those things and move everything else to the back burner (including his 60hr/wk work schedule).
2. He needs a wife who will listen and follow his lead on this.
Tarn his mom gets it, he still thinks it will work out, somehow… I hope he takes her advice.
@ go figure, I think he’s afraid to work any less, he thinks the solution is to work more. but I agree w you. As for his wife, I am not so she she would listen or let him lead. He said the boxed dinners were a complete waste, she told him they are doing it no matter what he says
Not good!
@ Tarn,
My friend is not only an amazing cook, she’s an Italian cook — which is like over the top cook. I think it is more about a power struggle between the husband and wife than anything here, the wife wants it all and she wants it now. Very entitled. Not good. She’s 1st generation Russian. Apparently they met when she saw him in a club and came up and sat in his lap. He feel for her right off. She’s very much a spender, he tries to make her happy, but it’s just more, more, more… Sad. She’s not a happy person either, despite all she has. I don’t think she has any idea what’s wrong — she’s living a very empty superficial life. Looks good from the curb, tho!
As for his wife, I am not so she she would listen or let him lead. He said the boxed dinners were a complete waste, she told him they are doing it no matter what he says:/ Not good!
I think it is more about a power struggle between the husband and wife than anything here, the wife wants it all and she wants it now. Very entitled. Not good. She’s 1st generation Russian. Apparently they met when she saw him in a club and came up and sat in his lap. He feel for her right off. She’s very much a spender, he tries to make her happy, but it’s just more, more, more… Sad. She’s not a happy person either, despite all she has. I don’t think she has any idea what’s wrong — she’s living a very empty superficial life. Looks good from the curb, tho!
All he can do is try to work with her and help her understand (he can’t do this until he gets it). If she is to stubborn to move with him then he should think about moving on. Life is to short to waste.
It is OK to admit that you were stupid and that there is such a thing as to much crazy. But nobody should double down on stupid and crazy. Just start over.
More stuff doesn’t equal more happiness. In fact, it’s usually the opposite.
Go Figure, I agree. I hope he can get her to see it, for his kid’s sake. If she were to get custody, that would not be good as she barely interacts with them now. It’s like she had kids to check the box, not because she loves kids or wanted kids. I told my friend if they do divorce, tell her son to push hard for primary custody. But of course the odds are not in his favor, even if he would provide the better environment.
Tarn: “That’s a BP life, sure, but it’s also just a plain stupid one”
Yeah, I was going to say it’s the BP life for sure.
But the B doesn’t stand for blue it stands for brainless.
Perhaps they could say, “We didn’t choose the brainless life, the brainless life chose us. ‘Cause if you’re brainless…well, really, what are ya gonna do?
It is amazing how many people have such completely self-generated “problems” though.
Just reading again I guess my response above is a little harsh. It sucks the guy is having suicidal thoughts, but damn…who wouldn’t with that lifestyle?
I don’t get why people do this.
Mike’s sister and brother in law are exactly the same, but her parents (Mike’s parents) have bailed them out again and again so that’s learned behavior. This is more like hitting yourself in the head with a shovel repeatedly.
“He said the boxed dinners were a complete waste, she told him they are doing it no matter what he says:/ Not good!”
No, not good at all. Maybe he could cancel the credit cards and dissolve the joint account?
No, not good at all. Maybe he could cancel the credit cards and dissolve the joint account?
Done post haste. It should have happened some time ago.
Perhaps trying to force a showdown she is.
When mad he gets,
his fault it would be
In new house he does live. New car, he does drive. “Designer labels” he does wear. Sounds like (from what Bloom has posted) his fault it partially is.
That could be true also Yoda…
Indeed, he’s chronologically a man and now a father but not a patriarch. She’s chronologically a woman and now a mom but not a responsible adult. She runs the roost bc he was never taught how. Blue pill.
Liz Yoda virus has she does
A big insult the delivered food is to the Mom it is.
Perhaps meant to drive her away it is.
You basically just discribed my own BP life. Wife that didn’t want to care for her children, despite protests to anyone making that accusation. Alcohol, pain killers, laxitives, self harm, classic BPD (borderline, not blue pill). Took me more than ten years, with people telling me I had to get out, before I finally got free. Now two years into divorce and some end is in sight.
Luckily I discovered TRP and opened my eyes to reality.
Cutting your spouse off from shared funds, which they all are after marriage in most states, can be considered abuse. I’m not saying not to do it (I did) but know it can come back to bite you in the ass. Remeber, “no fault” really means “no woman at fault”.
This was me in the 90s. Management consultant making 80k working wife living in Toronto. Son was born September 94. December 94 I had one day off, Christmas. Worked 41 days straight. In March 94 sold the house, wife stopped working and moved into inlaws basement…for four years! We paid off our debt. got a house.
Never looked back. Twenty years later we live on forty acres in a century home in a small city. Three horses in the back yard. Wife went back to work last year when the last went to tradeschool. Both cars are paid, we have a pool put in for cash, mortgage of under 140k and a reserve of 5k in cash at all times. We have no credit cards for ten years now. My car is five years old but runs. I am the only manager who still eats peanut butter for lunch instead of eating out to 50+ a week. In five years at 57 the mortgage will be paid, I will drop to three days a week and my kids will graduate debt free. They pay as they go.
Why …because I to wanted to kill myself from being young and successful. But I saw the light. We sacrificed the trinkets but our house is still the one in all the kids stories. my wife was proud to say when asked what she did. oh I am on maternity leave…oh how old are the kids…21 and 19. But there was always someone there foir them and a home cooked meal. and we are celebrating marriage year 29 this fall.
And I am red pill as they come. I tell 2000 Belgians to back off and lug 60lb bales of hay out before you get out of bed. And just this morning my wife said, leaning on the kitchen counter, you don’t have to be quiet, the kids don’t live here any more.
We both agree if we didn’t have each other we would both be MGTOW. Only woman I know who can quote Rollo’s iron rules and thinks RPG and Judgybitch rock.
RPG,
Someone will have to do an intervention with the wife. It’s about debt not blue/red pill.
If they don’t get a handle on this soon, she will be living in a two bedroom rented apartment while he sleeps in his car. They will be divorced.
She worries me about the pain pills. If she is drinking too, that will have a magnifying effect.
He may not survive the divorce.
To put it to them in positive terms, there is no better time to clear away debt than in a smooth economy. Where they are at, they won’t be able to handle a rough one.
Is the wife from a major metro area? If she were from a smaller city or the country, she wouldn’t be this entitled. For what it is worth, the last I heard was that Moscow had the highest cost of living anywhere. It managed to top Paris!
The first thing that has to go are these stupid dinners. That is close to a grand per month!
Yoda you got that right, the mom was very offended and declares she’s no longer cooking. Or cleaning up after dinner. Or eating boxed dinners!
Horseman your story made my day! Thank you for sharing it!
@ Fuzzie, I have met the kids but never the couple, so I am not sure she would even care what I think. Hopefully the universe will open that door for me, and if it does I’ll give her the red pill with both barrels!
So many people live in misery like this, so unnecessarily. I am so happy to hear that sometimes some, like Horsemen, escape and make it! Yay!
Hopefully this couple will too.
Its about choices. But more the courage to do it.
Imagine the crap I got from my buddies. 31 with a two year old and a pregnant wife living in her moms basement!
But after four years of saving we laughed because the loan officer didn’t know how to do the paperwork for a 25% down mortgage. He had never done one! Everyone did the 5-10% CMHC mortgages. And a SAHM was a sacrifice but the kids actually praise it. All their friends were daycare/latchkey kids. Our house is where the teenagers hung out. Why I said dont go back to work in the teenage years. Be the listening mom to the neighborhood. We had more kids and teenagers run away from fighting parents to sleep on our couch. Hell most nights we had to yell out how many for supper cause it was always more than the four of us.
and it worked. Both kids have multiyear LTRs likely to go to marriage and are well along in trade apprentiship and university. (little miss says the Boy is working up the nerve to ask me for her hand and she is only 20.)
Agree with The Bear
They may not make it if their jobs or interest rates go in the crapper. Divorce for sure. Bankruptcy likely. Substance abuse dangerously tempting.
who do they want to impress more? Neighbors and collegues who dont give a crap or those who love them?
Hell if need be and I really hate to use this one….
Man up and protect your family from a life of poverty anyone can see coming! And if she whines about the trinkets put her over your knee like a child and explain it must be done for their own good.
not to mention the heart attack just waiting.
Neil Gaiman’s short story the gift is a brilliuant if dark exploration of this exact scenario.
Not all Eastern European women are like this one. I follow a marriage/tour agency on youtube. He had a leasing company when he brought her over from Ukraine. That all tanked in 2008. She went to work at Safeway to cover the basics while he tried to get the agency off the ground. It couldn’t have happened otherwise.
RPG,
Do you have a spare room at your house for the Mom? It may come to that, and soon.
RPG,
Over a year ago, you wanted me to find a video that I had linked previously. I do get to wandering a lot on youtube and it can be hard to find my way back. Was this it?
It can get really crazy when titles aren’t in English or, use the Roman alphabet, for that matter.
@ fuzzie I have told her many times she is more than welcome! She can cook up a storm all she likes! Lol.
RPG,
That is good. Giving the Mom a safe place to land should take a load off. You may get a phone call in the middle of the night bot, that is what friends are for.
This whole thing is like knowing a train wreck is going to happen and being powerless to stop it.
One more thought about the couple that has the agency. He’s from here and she is from there. That is ideal for carrying on a business that has one foot in each location.
@ fuzzie I am not sure at what age she moved here w her folks, I believe. Women are women, dear bear. They lead, disaster follows. Same the world over. Boxed $40 dinners to “fit in” and such. Someone has to say “no” and stand form, and it’s him (a risk, true) or she’ll run it into the ground anyway. He’s kinda got nothing to lose by saying, “look, this is insanity. I am not happy. You are not happy. We have kids to think about. Let’s get this place ready to sell at top dollar and then live a simpler life.” Or something. But to continue working harder thinking “happy wife, happy life” when she’s so far from even knowing what happy is, is madness.
RPG,
If it continues, it will end in disaster. Unfortunately, the only advice he is going to get is “Happy wife, happy life”. Unless he finds his way to this corner of the internet and, that is not easily done. I am worried about him. He is already putting in a maximum effort. If this blows up it may kill him.
Fuzzie, my friend is not red pill but one day she was here when the other gal I know and have written a out, the sahm w the fantasy of frivorce, was here moaning about her hubby, again. I started giving her red pill advice that she was destroying her own happiness w her thinking and what she should do is love up her hard working husband and appreciate him, and my friend (the mom in this post) jumped right in and backed me up 100%. She’s learned the red pill informally, via the school of hard knocks. She’s an amazing designer, has worked all over, super talented, but now single and living w her son after a lifetime of SIW. Anyway… I should write a seperate post about all that…the point I am trying to make is she’s my in. And now w Horseman’s story to tell her (worked into conversation) I will plant the seed of how her son can save his family (squee!!!) fingers crossed!
@ fuzzie yes that’s it! Thank you for delisting it. Do you remember the conversation it was in response to? 🙂 the plateau, the other path, turning the herd? Yay!
Re posting I mean 🙂
And a SAHM was a sacrifice but the kids actually praise it. All their friends were daycare/latchkey kids. Our house is where the teenagers hung out. Why I said dont go back to work in the teenage years. Be the listening mom to the neighborhood. We had more kids and teenagers run away from fighting parents to sleep on our couch……….
And modern women think a career is more important than this. Haaaaaahaaaaaaa.
I am glad my mom was their every single day of my teen life, biggest influence in my life. Always ready to listen. I can’t tell you how many of my friend adopted her as their second mom. My only fear in life is to disappoint my mom. (sorry doesn’t sound very red pill).
Go figure, I don’t know if it’s red pill either but to have a mom like that is a blessing, that’s awesome! She sounds great. And yes, make her proud! 😉
To be a good parent (both moms and dads, in their own separate but unique way) is one of the most important jobs, I believe. I could write a whole blog (or many) on this but I believe many of the problems we see today also come from selfish and/or bad parenting, cattle call daycare, etc. if one has kids, for Goodness sale make raising them well a priority!
GoFigure,
And modern women think a career is more important than this. Haaaaaahaaaaaaa.
The only time a career is more important than raising children properly is if you’re like me/other eternal bachelors and don’t have any of your own. If you have kids, they absolutely take priority over your career.
Or should.
Both Ame and I (and maybe Liz?) were elder siblings who had to take care of our brothers and sisters much more than is commonly expected. I don’t know about her, but I was one of those latchkey kids spoken of before…Nowadays, most of the things I did under the age of 13 (walking to/from bus stop a mile away, being home alone or with siblings for hours at a time, picking up groceries from the local deli to make dinner, etc) would be evidence of “neglect” by our parents. All because of careers becoming more important than their kids. Fwiw, I actually appreciate a lot of the early growing up. I just wish it hadn’t been a necessity, if that makes sense.
rpg
Glad to help. If you need more details just ask.
and a burrito in a box for the bear 🙂
Thank you for the burrito!
RPG,
I don’t remember the surrounding convo but, while on the thought of “turning the herd”, in a real herd, the lead stallion could do that. To that point, there is some speculation that betas “persuaded” alphas into “sharing” in the very distant past.
I am very worried about this bunch. I think you should be prepared to take in the kids along with their grandmother. I don’t think that their mother is up to looking after them.
Bear I admire your thinking but unless both parents walk away wo a fight, my or her getting custody of those kids is unfortunately a slim chance in hell… Their parents will need to figure it out. I hope the do…
Oh wow, mom just told me dil was preggo when they married! He wife’s her up. But older baby looks more like his buddy than him. 2nd one looks more like dad. Ak!
RPG,
I am worried. Hope for the best while preparing for the worst.
RPG,
Just saw your last comment.
Omg if it’s so, it’s a blue pill tale at it’s worst! BB after AF. All this is alleged and unsubstantiated, of course. I am only getting one of three stories here remember. But it’s not sounding good, worse all the time actually.
And people say the red pill is….(insert insult here.) Really??? Isn’t the above insanity?
I get the feeling that we may be in one of these progressions.
Omg choose… That whole movie! Lol.
I worry for them and direct good things their war bear, but they are not my problems nor yours, thankfully. Except they are because you and I and all of us live in this consumer driven society of empty or at best momentary happiness.
May this blog and all our discussions here and on other blogs make a difference somehow, someway! That is why I write about these things. Too many are living the above and don’t even know why it’s not working no matter how hard they try.
RPG,
I hope that they can get back on track. They have to. They have kids.
The thought did occur to me that this wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t feel that it was necessary to go halfway around the world to find a wife.
American women are trashing their own reputations with collective bad behavior. Yes, men will travel halfway around the world to find a life partner.
Yes, men will travel halfway around the world to find a life partner.
Sometimes even stay there.
Tarn,
Men shouldn’t have to go halfway around the world. Across town makes sense. If it doesn’t work out, little is lost. Not only is is hard to support a long distance relationship, it’s a lot easier to support one cross-town just because contact is easier.
Agreed, Fuzzie.
I was simply saying it happens, not that I think it’s right.
Tarn,
Something is out of whack in the sexual marketplace. Markets can’t stay irrational forever but, the can outlast an individual’s patience.
Fuzzie,
Something is out of whack in the sexual marketplace.
It’s called female entitlement.
Just go read any dating guru’s blog…EMK is one I frequently browse to see what the average 25-35 yr old single woman has to say about the dating market. They really *don’t* comprehend the advice given, especially that of complementary personalities. The majority are alpha women: Type-A trait careerists who earn 6 figures a year, are ultra motivated (some might say borderline obsessive) lawyers, doctors, realtors, CEOs, etc and own the latest fashions, newest cars, big condos or expensive apartments…and want a man who is just like them. It’s funny, because EMK has written numerous ways about how a beta/passive/more relaxed man would actually be complementary to them, but each time the outcry is “I shouldn’t have to settle!”
Gives a very insightful look into things…
She already lived here Fuzzie.
He was trying to do the right thing, after obviously not wrapping it up. That he didnt wait and demand a DNA was a mistake likely. Blue pill thinking got him that far. Now, it’s a mute point. The ball is in play. Offense is the best defense, yes?
He is also not totally blameless as Liz has pointed out. Who’s running that show? Who should be? Even if it were equal it would be more fair than this.
Anyway I have been SUPER busy prepping for high season! Kickoff in one month.
Liz I hope you mean it I can email after you move bc I will if we pinky swear total secret pinky pact. 🙂
Actually long distance sucks but is possible with clear communication and defined end points with the right people. Its working for me. But overall yes odds against it.
Fuzzie the sexual marketplace has never been rational…. Same same, always the same, from the start. Yes the laws allow more outright bad behavior but it’s always been there if not overtly. It is human nature to be a dumb ass, hence Grace and sometimes stuff does work out. (I paraphrase).
And sorry is any of that sounds short, it’s been a heck of a stressful day of dealing w freaking drama retards. Oops, did I say that out loud???
Lol
RPG,
It’s not that it has always been irrational, it’s that it has never been more irrational.
Tarn,
I did read a little EMK before I found this corner of the internet. I don’t now.
Rocket lives. Just checked in and low and behold god was speaking; cause the current post was very apropos. Did a search and it seems the evil troll Sue departed after my last post; she should have been banned prior to it … but whatever; it happened.
So, the current topic is appropriate on 2 levels. My current sweetie and a former plate. Lets begin with the plate because I probably won’t make it past that. Plate just had a birthday and pushing 50, not there yet but getting close. Moved back to my home town and moved in with her son … after her last divorce; #3. Kid never married his girl yet got her pregnant. He’s 24, she’s 22. Despite them young and healthy, they had a severe downs baby. Yes, this is detectable but guess the docs never checked because both were young and healthy. So, not so old Grandma arrives home to find that GF doesn’t have a clue how to raise a child. None the less, a Downs child. Why ? Cause the mother ejected her father who is nowhere to be found. She has a Step Father who sometimes steps in to help; and took over when her mother self destructed. So, she is a single mom raised by men because her mother was such a fuck up, doesn’t know how to be a mother.. Now … the dad. Is not so bad, has a good job and tries to be a good parent. Works lying tile, in construction, and makes good money. Problem is … the plate trying to destroy his life. He tries to man-up , but given society and his upbringing, his mother (the plate), etc … its hard. Really hard.
So anyway, GF decides she’s not married … so can walk. And since Grandma is ok with taking care of kid … she can walk. She is not responsible. Can blame everything on someone else. And she knows that later, after she has destroyed father, kid, and Grandma …. she can come in at any time and get her kid back. Yeah … she got a pussy …. she make rules and the rules favor her.
Was thinking of telling the plate the truth. Don’t take the kid. Don’t let your son take the kid. Make the GF show up and sign papers giving the kid up for adoption; so she realizes she will never see him again … and she’ll balk. She’ll man up. She take the kid and learn to be a good mother. She might even agree to marry her son. BECAUSE she has no choice. When women are given a choice … they fuck it up.
That is the problem today; women have too much power and too much choice. They can choose to get married. Or not. They can get a job and support themselves. Or not … mooch off the government or a man or not.. And that’s related to the following … which is, have a kid or not. The pill, abortion, they control it … and a man doesn’t. So they have all the control and yet NONE of the accountability. That’s where it goes wrong; none of the accountability.
.
I agree. Men should have more rights as fathers in the say and role of their offspring. I also think that paternity should be confirmed by blood at birth in order to complete a birth certificate when possible, understanding special circumstances or waived rights. I think knowing that, women would be a lot more careful trying to pull one over on men. What kills me, is you need to take a parenting class to divorce with children, but you don’t need a parenting class when you register a birth or get married. You take a birth class to get you through the experience if you wish to, but geeze! The system is ass backwards. More levity and equal responsibility (and accountability) would really help society overall.
I saw a video last night from a guy that married a Russian. Disaster. From what I could tell, she never bonded. She ended moving to the Southwest and getting together with some other Russians. They were all divorced and they had well rehearsed stories. I can see how this could happen. Basically, they want an easy entry into the US. It can’t be all that common though as, the word is that the divorce rate for foreign marriages is only twenty percent compared to the domestic figure of fifty percent.
The moral here must be to be cautious of whirlwind romances.
If the wife in the OP was already here, could she be a part of this community? It is all too easy to prey on the good will of men.
“Liz I hope you mean it I can email after you move bc I will if we pinky swear total secret pinky pact”
Of course I mean it! Pinky swear back at yah. 🙂
Liz,
I wish we could keep your company. Your input as a well grounded married woman is very helpful.
Truth.
Done! Pinky pacts forever!
*sniff*
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Well, that does it. I’m sorry, but RedPillGirl, you are just plain WRONG. First off, you have no idea if this is true or not because you are only getting one side of the story. Second, this is catty gossip. But third, you obviously have not been on the receiving end.
Let me tell you something — having been in a position of trying to fit in a family where I was “different”, I can tell you that being compared constantly to mothers-in-law, aunts, sisters-in-law, you name it, is HELL. Especially if you’re young and you want to make a good impression and fit in and get people to like you. Depression is real, sorry, ladies (and gentlemen, if you are reading). Doesn’t surprise me in the least that she’s taking pills and a mess. I’d be, too, if I had to deal with realizing that the dear, precious mother-in-law was so much better than I, and I couldn’t hold a candle to her. No matter what I did, I couldn’t cook like her, I couldn’t do anything like her, and it was no secret just who was the saint and who was worse than the Devil himself.
It didn’t stop for me until I finally learned how to stand up for myself, and that wasn’t easy. It wasn’t in my nature; I was a pleaser and I wanted my husband to love me, and I wanted his family to like me. It became obvious I wasn’t going to gain that at all, and it got worse with the addition of children — I couldn’t raise them “right”, either. Fortunately I wasn’t subjected to this kind of tale-bearing. And the problem has ended because I finally put an end to it with the help of others who taught me I did indeed have the power to assert my authority in my own home and tell the interferers to leave me alone.
I have shared many opinions on a lot of things with you, but this shows me your true colors — a bunch of women just waiting to tear the eyes out of someone who is vulnerable. Because that’s EXACTLY what you are when you act like this. I don’t think you will take to this kindly because it has been my experience to see that when anybody disagrees with anybody red-pillian or manospherian, the dissenter is usually subjected to vocabulary that would make a sailor blush.
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
@ St. Thomas, Thank you for sharing another possible side to this story. You are right, I am only hearing part of it and these are just my outside observations. If nothing else this couple is living way beyond their means, which in itself is a big cause for marital problems and divorce. I don’t mean to vilify the DIL, it’s more the “typical American lifestyle” that leads to so much trouble that I am trying to point out here. Thanks for commenting and sharing your pov.
Many people in this country live beyond their means. This is usually the fault of both, not only one. Most of the women I’ve known are the ones who are juggling the budget and worrying about getting the bills paid. If you are commenting on the typical American lifestyle, then say that. The story you related above is just plain shameful, placing all the burden upon one person. You are backpedaling here trying to say that you weren’t really tale-bearing and acting like the wife is the evil person — and the mother-in-law is a sort of saint when she is really acting more like a meddlesome busybody who has absolutely no right to be living in her son’s and DIL’s home taking over like this. You need to consider the far more likely possibility that the DIL is unable to stand up for herself and is stuck between the son and his Mom cracking down on her for her perceived “wrongs”. This is a far more common scenario and you are not helping anybody this way. In addition, you are not a member of this family. Therefore, you have no right to gossip away with the juicy story you only got from your friend. I’ve seen this type of thing before. It’s downright evil. Stop it.
I’m done now, and I have really seen the light…..I know one other Red Pill woman and now I see exactly what you are all up to……catty gossip, tearing apart women who are usually in tough situations trying to juggle everything, and building yourself up in that way. Maybe you don’t have enough to do.
Thanks for allowing my input.
Wow St. Mary’s, that’s about enough of that. Your input is noted. BTW, You don’t have to read my blog. Nor tell me how to live my life, what to write, what to think, how to see life, or what to say. You may find this a revelation, but just because you FEEL something does not make YOU RIGHT. How do you know the situation above is true or not true, either? Think about it….
Speaking against the feminist narrative? Oh dear! Here come’s the shaming now… “Evil! Catty! Judgmental!” Oh my!
Note I did not say it was all the DIL’s fault, THEY AS A COUPLE are making these choices. He and her both.
Perhaps if THEY lived w/i their means THEY would not have to have the MIL as a live in servant and could actually PAY for childcare instead of a new boat and a two week vacation to Hawaii!
Whatever… your input is clearly projection and delusional.
It is not at all uncommon to see mother-in-laws inviting themselves; or other family members inviting themselves. I know plenty about that myself, and also know plenty about being cowed by other family members. Oh, do I…..
You should also keep that in mind. And if you are saying it is both their faults, you certainly did a poor job of it in your original post. Read it again. You pointed all the fingers at the wife. Whatever fingers you pointed at the husband were only in regards to your belief that he was not cracking down on his wife enough, which is only another way of pointing all the fingers at the wife.
Nobody told you how to live your life, and of course I don’t have to read your blog. But if you are going to dish out dirt, then you should be able to take someone calling you on it.
“Delusional” and “projection” are frequent words used to try to discredit anybody who calls malice out for what it is. I’m not the least bit surprised.
But don’t worry, I have made my point and you are now free to reject it. Thanks again!
St. Mary it is not uncommon for others to impose, true. But they cannot impose if one does not let them. How is she contributing to the solutions with her going along, if that is indeed the case (versus her being part of the problem?) What solution would you suggest here? Spend more money? Give up? Take pills? Drop out of her children’s lives in the same home? Check out? Or to take ownership and be part of a constructive solution? Are women empowered, or helpless?
Thing is, and we all know this is true, she could take half of it all, get on govt. programs, get support and help, “escape her oppression” etc. There are endless avenues for women to do so (but curiously few for men, even if they are fathers who feel suicidal…men btw commit suicide far more often than women, but of course there is no outcry about that…)
Fair enough. I allowed myself to be imposed upon because I did not know how to take any ownership of my own power. Please understand that there are many women out there who were raised to believe that their job was to obey. They were made to understand under no uncertain terms that to question the status quo or to dare to suggest that they also had ideas and solutions that might have been contrary to the established situation was the ultimate rebellion and the result would be a pretty severe punishment. I am not making this up. The totem pole stack exists, and probably more than you may want to believe. Pulling out of that mindset can take years and may need help. Trust me. I know all about this.
Here is what she needs to do:
1. Seek out help. Personally, I recommend Codependents Anonymous as it is free and most literature can be found at public libraries. Get a sponsor and be honest with the sponsor about what’s going on. This should help to gain the confidence necessary to confront.
2. Get practical. Shop and cook from the sales. First, inform the mother-in-law that she will be planning meals from there on; help will be gladly accepted, but she, as the wife, will be making decisions. As an informational note, a lot of good Italian food ingredients can be pricey, especially if you are accustomed to shopping at the Italian delicatessen. With small children like that, you need to use the Crock-Pot a lot and it is not uncommon for a boy raised in an Italian household to have had a Mom who spent all day in the kitchen (and somehow also got everything else done). This is going to be the major bone of contention, so she has to be ready to get tough about it. She has to say what she is able to do and what she cannot do, and that her energy level is not necessarily going to be the same as the M.I.L.
3. If her husband complains, let her remind him that they freely chose one another in marriage, nobody put a gun to his head. She loves him and is doing the best she possibly can do for him. But there are also two small children to consider. Now, of course, I don’t know what their schooling choices are going to be, but they choose homeschooling, then her energy levels will be WAY more expended and she will be even less able to do everything the way dear Mother did it.
4. If the mother-in-law complains, let her remind her that she is the wife in the family. She appreciates genuine help, but doesn’t appreciate constant undermining. If she wants to do that, then she should consider a move.
5. Stop the boat and the fancy vacation in their tracks. ABSOLUTELY NO boat and no vacation. This is a no-brainer. If they want to vacation, let them go camping (I’m choking on that one as I detest camping myself) or take a day trip in the car to some local attraction.
6. Commit to saving a certain amount each week. Just arrange an automatic deposit into the savings account, no matter how small — even five dollars a week if that’s all you can do. The point is to put something away. You can always increase this amount later when finances become less tight.
7. Be firm. Don’t back down on your principles, and if you have been betrayed and battered down by all the people on your back, DO. NOT. CONFIDE. IN. THEM. Confide only in your CoDA sponsor, or a trusted friend (preferably an older lady). You cannot trust a person who has beaten you down verbally or emotionally for months or years; being vulnerable with these people is akin to throwing blood in the water to the sharks; they will definitely eat you for lunch. Once you have the handle on things, then you can gradually start normalizing the relationship, but if you can perceive that things could start slipping again — get those walls UP and FAST. Don’t put yourself into the position of victim again.
8. Marriage is for life. Marriage is about bearing the cross God sends you and working within that framework. But you do not have to be walked all over by those stronger in personality than you and you can carve a portion of peace for yourself even in the worst situations. See here at http://stthomasmoreacademy.blogspot.com/2015/07/marriage-and-cross.html
This may not be for everybody, but since you asked me about practical solutions, here’s my offering.
“Are women empowered, or helpless?”
For most of the years in my life (so far) I believed the latter. I was raised to obey and be meek. It backfired. Often it does. I am no longer meek and quiet and I’ve also learned to question people who demand complete subservience. This will probably raise the cry of “feminist”. But that’s fine; it’s the way things often go in this life. I am among the wrong crowd here, so perhaps this is the time to bow out as graciously as is possible. Thanks again!
Actually St. Mary I think you had some constructive input in your last comment. Let’s keep things constructive, and solution based.
Subservient, or first mate to his captain, does not have to mean abused, nor should it.
“Subservient, or first mate to his captain, does not have to mean abused, nor should it.”
Agreed…..but I come from a very different side of the story than I perceive you do and the majority of the ladies who appear to hold your opinions. You’d be very surprised if you lived in the shoes of a few other women…..it would do you good to see all the angles before tale-bearing in the manner you have chosen.