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Now it’s been said that women have no place in the manosphere, nor can they comprehend or be red pill. I can see the point, and mostly agree. Manosphere sites are for men, and women should respect those male only spaces, just as we would expect men to respect women only spaces.
However I have myself learned tremendously from my exposure to the manosphere and the red pill, and so I am not so sure I would say women being exposed to these ideas is without merit. In fact, I know that for me personally it has entirely changed how I live my life and approach the world — for the better!
I was just as clueless, perhaps more, as anyone when I stumbled across the red pill. I was drinking the mainstream media kool aide and believed pretty much all of it. It had never even occurred to me that perhaps those facts might be skewed to support an unspoken agenda that was in turn destroying the relationships between men and woman, and destroying families.
I was horrified. But I could also see it was true. I wish more people understood how our “modern way” of thinking is leading us as a society right toward a cliff.
But there are no sites, or few, where women can be exposed to these ideas that could help improve gender relations and help get things back on track. In fact, that’s one of the main reasons I started this very site — to provide that place where women (and men) can learn about a different path. A path back toward men being men and women being women.
And in turn, then those women (and men) can raise the next generation without all this social experiment nonsense that was foisted upon my generation — the idea that gender is a social construct and that being the same is the answer. Men and women are not the same. They are uniquely suited to play a role, with strengths and weaknesses, and they are in my humble opinion two parts of a whole.
My advice to the women who come here and to the manosphere in general would be to listen, truly listen, to what these men are saying. Put yourself in their shoes. See the damage that has been done. Understand the anger, frustration, and pain. And then be and do different than the average women. Rather than argue with them, or defend yourself and claim, “I am not like that” realize that on some level, yes you are. But you have a choice. Become aware of where women fall, and guard yourself. Use it to become a better woman. Then, teach other women to be better women, too.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
“My advice to the women who come here and to the manosphere in general would be to listen, truly listen, to what these men are saying.”
This is the key, right here. Women can learn a lot from the manosphere but you can’t do that if you are only listening to respond, you must listen to learn, and internalize, and grow.
Great post, and I agree. I do have to add a caveat, and say that you must read it at face value, but mix in some humor. Understand that men do communicate differently than women. We throw insults around like they are nothing, and we tend to use hyperbole a lot. You may not agree with everything that is said, and we will never force you, but we do make some valid points. Always remember with those that you disagree with, a broken clock is right twice a day.
Always remember with those that you disagree with, a broken clock is right twice a day.
This generally holds true when considering what the women have to say, unless it’s coming from a different planet. For some it might be Venus, which is kind of close, but for feminists it’s definitely Uranus.
I have been reading and studying the manosphere for a while. I try not to comment unless I have something of value to say. From the blogs, I have learned a lot, and I still am learning. Even if I don’t agree with something they say, I think about whether or not there is truth to it, and they I start my own research to see if I can prove them wrong. It’s been hard at times to sit through some of their more harsh opinions, but instead of getting angry, I use it to my advantage. I don’t know if they realize how many women are keeping up with their mindset, but there’s definitely good use for women to at least read their stuff.
I am not a Red Pill follower myself, but can see and appreciate the need for what it teaches. Having a blog like Bloom’s here, which can potentially aid in creating conversation between RP men and women is a very good resource.
CalloftheMGTOW wrote:
“Great post, and I agree. I do have to add a caveat, and say that you must read it at face value, but mix in some humor. Understand that men do communicate differently than women. We throw insults around like they are nothing, and we tend to use hyperbole a lot. You may not agree with everything that is said, and we will never force you, but we do make some valid points.”
This is a good statement, and worth repeating (and used as a warning).
One must learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. There will be hyperbole in there. It’s hard to know how to interpret some things.
I’d also add that, some Red Pill guys will NEVER be on the same page with the vast majority of women (of any type), and that’s just the way it is. In my opinion, it’s fair (and probably wise) for most of us to distance ourselves from such men. However, there will be others who have much of value to share.
RPG
My advice to the women who come here and to the manosphere in general would be to listen, truly listen, to what these men are saying. Put yourself in their shoes.
This is vital. If you want to have a great marriage/relationship you need to truly understand your husband/man and put his needs in front of your own. You also need a man that will truly understand you and put your needs above his. JMO
spot on, Bloom! there is so much to be learned if we just watch and listen and absorb, most often quietly.
============
CalloftheMGTOW said:
April 29, 2016 at 7:14 pm
“Great post, and I agree. I do have to add a caveat, and say that you must read it at face value, but mix in some humor. Understand that men do communicate differently than women. We throw insults around like they are nothing, and we tend to use hyperbole a lot.”
I absolutely agree. men ‘spar’ differently than women. they think and write differently … b/c they ARE different. we women do *not* need to understand men; we simply need to accept them, as they are. that does not mean we have to agree with every opinion out there, but we can disagree quietly – we do not need to voice our disagreements.
=======
I might also add that women do not need to immerse themselves in men’s stuff. we do not need to go into men’s ‘locker rooms’ and try to be one of the guys. hopping over to their sites and learning how to be better at being women is important. immersing ourselves in men’s rooms is not. we need to let them have their places without invading.
I’ll just add this:
Where you sit determines what you see and the irony of feminists talking about “male privilege” in an environment in which women can”t be held accountable for almost anything is off the scale. The manosphere has guys who have been knocked down, chewed up, run through the grinder and spit out on the other end. THEN, they’re told to act like nothing has happened, “get over it” and pay, pay, pay while the system supports the woman’s continued abuse. How about a trip to court every time you want to see your kids? I’ve been there, it happens.
The most amazing thing is that instead of guys walking out the door to burn the house down and go out shooting, they climb in the bathtub and blow their brains out. The fact that the increase in middle-aged white male suicides spiking up in a very big way didn’t seem to be worthy of consideration was just the same sauce, different day. The women’s response? “Guess they just couldn’t’ get over it…”
The advice to listen is good, but it’s something I don’t think many women will really ever understand because the current situation for men is just so far outside their paradigm that it’s incomprehensible to them. It does not compute and therefore it must be a bunch of misogynist bullshit. Which, when they say as much, just adds insult to injury and the men respond rather forcefully. It happens so often that men will preemptively lash out at women just for showing up. You know… kind of like when a “not hawt” man shows up for a “women only” function.
This is a recent comment on my blog, in which a woman was able to express her outrage at what I’d said (I’m good at provoking outrage) without going into meltdown mode:
Hi Artisanal Toad,
I’m new to your blog, and I’ve been sufficiently enraged and triggered. My mind has been blown. Well done, sincerely. I’m studying your flow chart on what God said about marriage, and I have not yet found an obvious flaw in your reasoning. But what about…
She then went on to make an argument, but did so politely in a way designed to stimulate honest debate rather than telling me I’m full of shit. Not a lot of women like that commenting in the manosphere.
Remember too there is lots of anger, pain and frustration here in the sphere that men vent without caring if the snowflakes get their feelings hurt. If women want to listen to the sphere, suck that up. Recall the damage that troll did here a while ago cause she was upset. The true sphere is a man space. we speak bluntly and truthfully. Otherwise we do what mgtow do if you wont listen. We shut up and quietly go away. PERMANENTLY.
RPG,
It’s hard to run a co-ed blog that deals with issues of male/female relationships. It has to be friendly enough to keep the women and honest enough to keep the men. At some time, someone is going to get their feathers ruffled.
I have to second our hostess’s advice to women to remain quiet, or, at least, restrict knee jerk reactions. Society has given women many advantages. In fact, too many. A knee jerk reaction from a woman may only be an attempt to protect those advantages.
Toad has a point.
I agree 100%. I am learning so much and am becoming a better, more self aware person for it.
This is an interesting post … especially given the recent schism between the old RedPillWomen guard on Reddit (now the RedPillWives sub) and the main TRP sub and other manosphere sites like Rollo’s Rationale Male.
I think there is a great deal of debate going on right now about what being a “Red Pill Woman” actually means, both within and outside of a marital context. Also, how to deal with the fact that, at the end of the day, there will always be conflict between male and female optimal mating strategies.
For instance, the basic stance of TRP right now for men is “Do not get married” (which as an EC on TRP, I fully agree with). But that conflicts with a dualistic alpha fucks/beta bucks female mating strategy. More thought needs to be given to how a woman can be Red Pill, without either 1) pushing for some tradcon marriage or commitment that TRP opposes, or 2) simply becoming plates for red pill men.
The driving question then is: what’s the middle ground? What makes a “Red Pill Woman”?
Copperfox3c –
“The driving question then is: what’s the middle ground? What makes a “Red Pill Woman”?”
if you had to right now, how would you answer that?
Artisanal Toadsaid:April 29, 2016 at 10:31 pm
“I’ll just add this:
Where you sit determines what you see”
truth.
“restrict knee jerk reactions.”
wisdom from The Bear.
Ame,
I don’t feel very wise. If anything, I probably feel furry. *silly face*
well, Sir Bear, should one put such stock in one’s feelings 😉 😉
(furry is good though … cause it’s cuddly and soft and warm 🙂 )
I don’t feel very wise. If anything, I probably feel furry.
They aren’t always mutually exclusive, Fuzzie.
You could be an owlbear…*wink*
This is an interesting post …especially given the recent schism
What happened? Is there a post about this on TRP, or did it occur over many conversations?
Tarn,
“Who? Who?”
Copper fox, it is a good question, and you are right about the quandary of the opposing mating strategies. I know when I first read about afbb, I ran it through what I had seen irl and found it all too often true. I think women being aware of afbb could help them make more concious choices, rather than let the hamster and feelings drive her. Perhaps it could be a warning too, both not to play with cads and also not to marry someone just to marry bc you’ll regret that long term and it’s terribly unfair to him as well. Occasionally I do see it, couples who have been together for a long time who enjoy each other’s company yet, and who you could hardly imagine apart. In those couples I see no fear of, “what if she frivorced me?” Or whatnot bc neither could ever hope to find better. Lucky are those who find it.
Tarn & Fuzzie –
“owlbear”
Love 🙂
Ame,
I like it a lot more than Farm Boy’s reminder of Al Gore’s “ManBearPig”.
Toad: “She then went on to make an argument, but did so politely in a way designed to stimulate honest debate rather than telling me I’m full of shit. Not a lot of women like that commenting in the manosphere.”
This is true.
But there also aren’t a lot of environments in the sphere conducive to discussing gender/sex issues “politely” and in a way that “stimulates honest debate”.
But (I’ve mentioned this here recently) that’s true of just about everywhere on the internet, for every issue. That’s why most places start to become echo chambers over time.
Dissenters (even respectful dissenters) are either shouted out (in unmoderated environments) or moderated out (every blog is going to have a bias…unless it is run by a group of people with diverse and conflicting belief systems, and a set of rigid rules imposed for everyone…to include the moderators).
That said, if such a place existed it wouldn’t last long because interest would wane (just as my old debate forum went tits-up a while back, with the availability of more and more options).
People (myself included) typically like to say what they want to say…so they try to find an environment where they can do that. So ultimately a place where sex/gender issues could be discussed “politely” and “reasonably” and all that, would take an enormous amount of work to produce for little gain and a lot of frustration.
I think what draws me to the sphere is the same thing that draws me to other types of political/military discussion. There’s a commonality and the subject interests me. I have a vested interest. I have more knowledge about specific cases than most (though I cannot really discuss them, which sucks…especially because I love to blab).
But I’ve never called myself red pill.
Anecdote (OT)
Mike’s farewell was last night (he has a lot of training to go to so we aren’t moving for a while). Today he is at an all day rifle course. He some tactical pants online (just 30 bucks! cheap liz says squee!) he is wearing them today and they look GOOD.
We just had a funny text exchange:
Mike: I like my tactical pants
Me: I like them too. I hope there aren’t any girls around. You aren’t allowed to wear those pants without me again 😉
Mike: Lots of hotties in bikinis here. They usualy mill around at shooting ranges.
Did I mention I like to blab? Yeah…to continue with the first thought.
It’s interesting to me from time to time (well…rarely but upon occasion) to take a look at other places that claim the sphere is “toxic” and all that.
They always claim impartiality and “TRP” is full of “haters” and so forth, so I might make a post or two or three just to explain, “Hey, you realize you are just as “toxic” and “hateful”…” then they ask for examples so I provide them.
I am always respectful, polite and so forth.
It’s pretty interesting to see how angry and personal and passive aggressive they become, right after assertions of their own self-described superiority and non-bias.
But I’ve seen it just about everywhere there is a large number of participants, for every type of belief system.
Liz
Lots of hotties in bikinis here. They usually mill around at shooting ranges.
We’ve been over this before, Liz: don’t pepper spray the cats. They’re just being cats…
But there also aren’t a lot of environments in the sphere conducive to discussing gender/sex issues “politely” and in a way that “stimulates honest debate”.
I’m not claiming I have such an environment on my blog, all I do is explain what the Bible actually says and point out that the church has been lying to Christians for 1500+ years about sex and marriage. That tends to provoke enormous amounts of outrage on the part of churchians and feminists, but I don’t think I’m toxic about it. The problem isn’t so much the women as the men who are worse than the women. Last year I wandered off the reservation and commented about what the Bible really says about “cheating” husbands on a Christian (feminist white knight) blog. An outraged woman responded. (I write comments in Word, so I have this saved in a file)
I responded to what I saw as the problem.
I got banned for that and the comments were deleted. By a male (I won’t call him a man) who was too concerned about how his female readers would react to allow the truth about the care and nurture of husbands to be discussed openly.
And for those of you who don’t recognize it, the advice above came from Gary Smalley, the Christian psychologist. A woman was about to divorce her husband and wanted to inflict maximum pain on him when she handed him the papers so she asked Gary how to really hurt him. I paraphrased what he said. Funny thing about the story, at the end of 30 days she found herself married to a guy she didn’t want to divorce and realized she’d been the cause of all the problems.
Liz – haha! I tell my husband that they can adopt women walking behind men anytime they want as I love walking behind him and admiring the view! @;)
——
“(he has a lot of training to go to so we aren’t moving for a while)”
cool! so we get to have you around for longer?! 🙂
“We’ve been over this before, Liz: don’t pepper spray the cats. They’re just being cats…”
LOL Toad. 😀
That was quite a response to that woman!
Well…you’re right that if she did those things there is a high likelihood her marriage would improve.
Artisanal Toad –
“We’ve been over this before, Liz: don’t pepper spray the cats. They’re just being cats…”
tehehe
——————
“I’m not claiming I have such an environment on my blog, all I do is explain what the Bible actually says and point out that the church has been lying to Christians for 1500+ years about sex and marriage. That tends to provoke enormous amounts of outrage on the part of churchians and feminists, but I don’t think I’m toxic about it. ”
have read thru some of your blog and have not found anything toxic about it. opinionated? yes. strong convictions? yes. but I wouldn’t call that toxic.
——————
“I got banned for that and the comments were deleted. By a male (I won’t call him a man) who was too concerned about how his female readers would react to allow the truth about the care and nurture of husbands to be discussed openly. ”
stupid, stupid male. why would a man *not* want all that?
these things, though, make me wonder about my first marriage. as hindsight is more distorted than 20/20, sometimes I can’t remember everything at one time. i’ll read this and think … wow, if only i’d known xyz, things would have been better. i’ll read it another time and realize even doing all these things (which I did – minus the gaining 80 pounds), he still wasn’t happy and there were other issues I had no control over. I know this is vague b/c I really don’t know how to present all that happened … but I do know that doing the same things in my now-marriage yield different and very positive results.
Hee hee Ame.
Just saw your post. 😀
A nice bottom is…a very good thing in a man.
Liz – tehehe! makes sports SO much FUN to watch! my husband just laughs at me. I mean … if I get down on the field w/those guys, can I slap their butts, too (j/k … my husband’s is the only one I want 😉 … and one is certainly quite enough for me)
Warning: Threadjack approaching.
Need to ask this and looking for honesty not just to poke the bear. (not you Fuzzie)
I work in health care with 5:1 female male ratio and have seen the I’m not happy play out over and over. As I access the benefits files I KNOW over 60% of the female staff claim no male on benefits or indicate single. Putting aside the EatPrayLove thing. and seeing virtually all of them still single years later.
Here is my question.
Realistically what value does a 40+ woman bring to any man?
Looks …post Wall and at best a rearguard action
Babies….. really? 1% with 30k of IVF
Money….at forty the guy has his own or is used to do without.
Companionship….the guys and dog are waaaay less trouble and do fun stuff.
Fun Stuff…antiquing? gardening?….no baseball, hunting, beer drinking
Sex….um see Looks plus a lower libedo and alternatives (porn)
Die Alone….Google George Cloony Sell Me Marriage
Also compare the golf swing speech in Tin Cup and the I believe speech in Bull Durham to the I dont feel that speech in Up In The Air. Basically that Soulmate feeling?? Can be found in a well hit golf shot, line drive or good scotch.
So forget why they blow it up. What intrinsic value does a 40 year old woman have even if she is an 6 (as Dalrock says there are no 8s after 40 even Heidi Klum. 8 for her age but in SMP a 6 at best.)
p.s. Mrs moved out for three months two years ago. Saw her options. Came back very red pill. What keeps us strong…my default setting is There is the door.
Again looking for a real answer on value not just throwing mgtow gernades.
Rojita,
After thinking about it, I think I can explain what a Red Pill woman is.
I believe wives understand quite well, at a very intrinsic level, just how much power they have over their husbands in monogamous marriage and over men in general. They don’t have to be told, they can see it and feel it.
I also believe most wives don’t have the slightest clue just how much that fact effects their husband, and THAT is the unspoken dichotomy in these discussions that doesn’t seem to be getting any airtime.
The men not only understand what kind of power the women have, but husbands understand the corrosive effect that has on them. As Lord Acton so famously put it- “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely.” Women pretty much have absolute power over men these days and it’s corrupted the hell out of them. The evidence is everywhere.
Ame, you say the guy who deleted my comment and banned me was stupid. No, he wasn’t, because he knew quite well that women don’t want to be told that anything is ever their fault or that they need to change. Even if changing means they’ll get what they want. Women don’t want to be held accountable and by using their political power they’ve achieved that in monogamous marriage and in a lot of other areas. This is why, as a rule, women are not and cannot be Red Pill.
A Red Pill Woman is one who understands her position in God’s scheme of things and supports God’s design for women.
Guys will talk about “patriarchy” as if it’s some kind of talisman, but even the men who advocate Biblical behavior don’t know what it actually is or they’re afraid of talking about it. There are only two sources of morality in this world, the Law of God and the Law of the Jungle (might makes right). There is no middle ground. What feminism has done is to throw out God’s Law because they don’t like what God has to say about a woman’s place in His design for things; and BY FORCE they have implemented their own agenda using the power of the state.
God said don’t kill your children, that’s murder. God said don’t get divorced, He hates it. Women often ignore that and say “Well, the law says I can!” As soon as they say that and take action on it, they prove they have rejected God. Their morality is the Law of the Jungle rather than God’s Law (which is where all the brown babies come from- the Jungle). Problem is, the day is coming when this thing is going to burn down and God will be your only hope… because the men will have checked out.
And God does judge. Galatians 6 says “God is not mocked.” Read about how He’s going to treat these arrogant women in Isaiah 3 and then take a look at Isaiah 4:1-2. The branch of the Lord is the church, so that’s a prophesy for our times, not back then. “Save us from our reproach.” After destroying marriage and society men won’t want anything to do with them and after being punished and reintroduced to God’s Law they’ll want to be married even if it means (gasp!) polygyny.
Here is what women and feminism are fighting and rebelling against:
1. Women are cursed with hypergamy, it’s not an evolved trait. (Genesis 3:16)
2. Women are cursed to be ruled by a man (Genesis 3:16)
3. A man can have more than one wife if he chooses (Genesis 2:24)
4. A wife can only have one husband at a time (Romans 7:2-3)
5. A man can have sex with any woman he’s eligible to marry (Gen. 2:24)
6. A virgin has no agency (consent) in who she marries (Deut. 22:28-29)
7. Losing her virginity is marriage (Gen. 2:24; Ex. 22:16; Deut. 22:28-29)
8. A wife banging any man other than her husband commits adultery (Ex. 20:14)
9. A man can only commit adultery banging another man’s wife (Lev. 18:20)
10. A woman’s father/husband can annul any of her agreements (Numbers 30)
11. Wives are to submit to their husband, in everything (Ephesians 5:22-24)
12. A wife’s submission isn’t based on her husband’s behavior (1st Peter 3:1-2)
13. Sexual morality for men isn’t the same as for women. (Lev. 18:22-23)
14. A Husband must love his wives (hold them accountable) (Ephesians 5:25-33)
15. Corporal punishment is an option for a rebellious wife (Revelation 3:19)
16. A wife has no authority to divorce her husband (1 Peter 3:1-6)
That’s just 16 points off the top of my head, but every one of those applies to women today and that’s what feminism opposes. And the funny part? #15 is the one that will probably send most women over the edge. Most women can admit they don’t want a husband who cheats on them but they do want a husband who is attractive enough that he could cheat on them. Most wives don’t want to be spanked, but most would be thrilled to know that if they stepped far enough over the line that their husband would put them over his knee. They just can’t admit it. But you’d be amazed at how often I’ve found that looking a woman in the eye and saying “You need to be spanked” causes an arousal response from her.
Red Pill is, at heart, a moral perspective that must be based on the Bible. Women don’t like that because of God’s design for women contained in the Bible.
Unfortunately, the church created feminism when it violated God’s Law by making a few selective edits to the Law, claiming that men no longer had the authority to initiate marriage (the church said THEY decided who was married and when) and that marriage was by consent only- the consummation didn’t matter. The church doubled down and claimed men and women were equal in terms of sexual morality because SEX IS EVIL. Yes, they said it’s evil and a sin even within marriage unless it’s only done for the purpose of procreation and then only in the missionary position during the night with the minimum amount of clothing removed and the act completed quickly with as little pleasure as possible.
Ton pointed out that most all the women here piled on with Team Woman when Sue was trolling away a few posts ago. What he and others were pointing to demonstrates women’s deep-seated anger with the fact that God said they were to be ruled by a man. And, it doesn’t help that while women *want* to be ruled by a man that’s truly fit to rule them (an attractive, dominant masculine man), there just aren’t enough alpha’s to go around. This is where the love affair with monogamy came from: It isn’t that women hate sharing a man, it’s that they hate the though of sharing a *beta* husband. Show them an Alpha and women quickly demonstrate they have no problems with sharing.
Even worse, the churches are totally controlled by feminists, cucks and SJW’s who teach men cringe-worthy doctrines like “mutual submission” and “servant leadership” that strip them of their masculinity and turn them into spineless betas that put women on a pedestal. The wives naturally respond with contempt and revulsion to their supplicating husband, which results in dead bedrooms. Show me what passes for a really “godly” man these days and I’ll show you a man who stimulates feelings of revulsion in women with options. Until they’ve changed lanes and are looking for a good provider. Then they’ll hold their nose and give him good sex up until the marriage. After that it dies off because they aren’t attracted to him, but now they’re married and she’s in control.
In a lot of ways I think the Red Pill is different for men and women, but the one point of commonality is God’s Word. Not the feminist crap taught in churches, but what God’s Word really says.
Show me a woman who publicly supports God’s design for women and opposes the enemies of that design, even if it causes her to publicly be in conflict with the sisterhood… and I’ll show you a Red Pill Woman. Show me a few eligible Red Pill women that know how to share and I might change from a toad back into a frog.
Here is my question.
Realistically what value does a 40+ woman bring to any man?
Looks …post Wall and at best a rearguard action
Babies….. really? 1% with 30k of IVF
Money….at forty the guy has his own or is used to do without.
Companionship….the guys and dog are waaaay less trouble and do fun stuff.
Fun Stuff…antiquing? gardening?….no baseball, hunting, beer drinking
Sex….um see Looks plus a lower libedo and alternatives (porn)
Die Alone….Google George Cloony Sell Me Marriage
Here is my $0.02:
A girl has 3 things of value she can offer a man that he can not easily get somewhere else:
1. Sex (the value of this does decrease with age).
2. Good mothering ability (age definitely effects ability to bear kids, so you can say this has a shelf life).
3. Support 24/7 (can be emotional, physical, financial or other. Each man will have his own needs)(I think this is different than companionship).
It does not matter what age the women is (18-80), these are the only things of value she can give to a man. By 40s the second one is basically done and the value of the first one has decreased; so that leaves the 3rd item. How many 40 something women have much to offer there? If they have something to offer they will be taken.
Artisanal Toadsaid:May 1, 2016 at 2:09 am
Rojita,
=====
LOVE “Rojita”
hope Bloom loves it, too 🙂
Well, she *is* Senorita Rojita… I don’t think it’s a dye job.
Artisanal Toad,
That got deleted? No sense of humor. Seriously, that does undercut all the Churchian female dominance covert marriage game plan. It kind of tells men where not to look for wives.
Horseman,
Whatever point a woman has in her favor, I have no doubt that she is finding a away to overvalue it. I think that you addressed your question to the men. I don’t think that forty year old women are ready to self examine .
Artisanal Toadsaid:May 1, 2016 at 2:09 am
“A Pill Woman is one who understands her position in God’s scheme of things and supports God’s design for women.”
i agree.
=======
“What feminism has done is to throw out God’s Law because they don’t like what God has to say about a woman’s place in His design for things; and BY FORCE they have implemented their own agenda using the power of the state.”
sigh. yes. i have seen this up close. it’s ugly.
=======
“God said don’t kill your children, that’s murder. God said don’t get divorced, He hates it. Women often ignore that and say “Well, the law says I can!” As soon as they say that and take action on it, they prove they have rejected God.”
i’ve had women come back to me and say, “I should have listened to you.” yep. they should have. now they’ve screwed things up, and i’m out.
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“Problem is, the day is coming when this thing is going to burn down and God will be your only hope… because the men will have checked out.”
the women worth anything will have checked out, too. i’m glad to help women, glad to show them what the Bible says. when they flat-out reject it, i’m out. if they want my help again, they need to prove it.
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“Red Pill is, at heart, a moral perspective that must be based on the Bible. Women don’t like that because of God’s design for women contained in the Bible.”
i agree. would you say than an Alpha man is what God describes a man should be? when i read all this RP stuff and Alpha stuff, it’s all what i see in the Bible.
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“Even worse, the churches are totally controlled by feminists, cucks and SJW’s who teach men cringe-worthy doctrines like “mutual submission” ”
have you written anything addressing ‘mutual submission’ and that bible verse they get it from? i’d be interested in reading it if you have.
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“In a lot of ways I think the Red Pill is different for men and women, but the one point of commonality is God’s Word. Not the feminist crap taught in churches, but what God’s Word really says.”
agree.
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“Show me a woman who publicly supports God’s design for women and opposes the enemies of that design, even if it causes her to publicly be in conflict with the sisterhood… and I’ll show you a Red Pill Woman. Show me a few eligible Red Pill women that know how to share and I might change from a toad back into a frog.”
“that know how to share” ?
Ame
have you written anything addressing ‘mutual submission’ and that bible verse they get it from? i’d be interested in reading it if you have.
Actually, I have a post I’m working on right now that discusses mutual submission and servant leadership. The mutual submission comes from Ephesians 5:21, which feminists claim is the “context” for Ephesians 5:22-24. That’s a really bad argument because all of the submission stuff in the NT points straight back to Genesis 3:16 “and he shall rule over you” and Genesis 3:16 is the context for Ephesians 5:22-24 as well as 1st Peter 3:1-6. Some idiots claim that Christ lifted the curse, but since snakes still crawl on their bellies and women still have painful childbirth, I’m pretty sure they’re wrong about that.
The whole “Ephesians 5:21 is the context” argument essentially says “we’re submit to one another in fear of Christ, so who are you to Lord if over me?” Compare that to how God responded to a similar argument at Numbers 16:3 and tell me if it’s a good argument…
“that know how to share” ?
I’ll never do monogamy again, but I would be willing to go with a formal poly marriage using a written covenant of marriage. I was in two different poly relationships before I did the monogamy thing, and all things considered I prefer poly.
But, that assumes finding the right women. I really don’t care about their sexual history as long as they’re eligible to marry (not already married). I have no problem at all with sluts, as long as they’re my sluts and they’re serious about their faith. And young enough to have babies. Kind of nice to seal the deal that way and besides- I like milk.
So, yeah, they have to be OK with sharing.
Ame
would you say than an Alpha man is what God describes a man should be? when i read all this RP stuff and Alpha stuff, it’s all what i see in the Bible.
The longer I live and the more I study the Bible, the more I am convinced that when God designs something there is nothing man can come up with that will function nearly as good, much less better. Polygyny is necessary for monogamy to function correctly. Between polygyny and that “loophole” that allows a husband to have sex with the cute widow down the street and not be in sin… you see dread game built into the Bible. Polygyny means the man is not giving up his most powerful relationship tool (“Next!”) by making a commitment to marry and it’s the ultimate tool for dealing with a rebellious or unfaithful wife in a system that doesn’t permit divorce. Keep in mind that while Genesis 2:24 did not restrict the number of wives a man might take, Christ pointed out in Matthew 19 that neither does it contain any authority for the man to terminate a marriage (“but from the beginning it has not been this way”).
God gave men an enormous amount of authority. With great authority comes great responsibility and that’s a combination that forces men to grow. Alpha’s are used to exercising and using authority. Alpha’s are comfortable giving commands and expect to be obeyed.
All you have to do to stunt the growth of men is wrap them so tightly in rules and regulations that they never get the chance to spread their wings and fly. “Oh! But they may crash and get hurt!” So? It happens, usually because of stupidity. Why are muslim men perceived as being so dominant? Because their rules allow the men to be dominant.
I don’t know if the Alpha man is what God describes a man should be, but what I do know is that God’s design produces far more Alpha men than the designs of feminism. Keep in mind that only a certain percentage of men will be Alpha, but that’s a contextual scale. If you went with Vox’s socio-sexual hierarchy then a solid Delta raised in a Biblical environment would be perceived as alpha to the people of this culture and a natural Alpha raised in a Biblical environment would probably be shot on sight as a menace to society. Or made president.
Artisanal Toad –
“And young enough to have babies. Kind of nice to seal the deal that way and besides- I like milk.”
“Polygyny means the man is not giving up his most powerful relationship tool (“Next!”)”
you had me laughing 🙂
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“Polygyny is necessary for monogamy to function correctly.”
can you explain that more … or direct me to a link on your site that does?
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” I was in two different poly relationships before I did the monogamy thing, and all things considered I prefer poly.”
– what motivated you to do the monogamy thing after two poly relationships?
– what did you prefer about the poly relationships over the monogamous?
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and probably a weird question – how many languages do you speak? using “Rojita” and something else (can’t remember) that i read on your blog made me think you possibly speak more than one language. just a curious question.
Toad,
Given the portrait that you paint of modern women, it is more than discouraging and it all stems from attitude.
Perhaps instead of red pill women I should say red pill aware women.
I actually have a theory that there is a female version of the red/blue pill that is yet to be explored… The pretty little lies fed to girls and young women that lead them astray in modern life, similar to how boys and men have been led astray from their true natures.
@ horseman as to why any man would want a woman over 40, well as a woman over 40 myself, I find that luckily they do but I would not recommend being single at 40+ as a good strategy for a woman.
Toad,
I started reading your blog and came across this statement;
“As you’ll have noticed, the general rule of thumb is that if she isn’t a virgin then in all likelihood she’s most definitely married to the guy who got her virginity. Your first order of business is to determine her status and if she’s got one of those unintentional marriages, help her get rid of it.”
How does one help a woman get rid of an unintentional marriage? I get the point that the man she surrendered her virginity to is in fact her husband and have no issues with that. But helping her get rid of the resulting marriage? That is confusing.
Toad, never mind, found it. I should have continued reading before asking.
RPG,
There is something to be said for experience.
I hope that makes you feel better. *smile*
Fuzz and RPG.
They are not ready to self examine.
Good test for RPGs article. If you, as a woman in the sphere, are not ready for critical self examination of your beliefs and self improvement, what the hell are you here for??
Trolling?
A pity party?
Mock the bicycles you dont need?
My question is an honest one thought by millions of men asked to man up for frivorcees and carousel riders. Other than you want us to (your favorite answer) what honest answerdo you have.
If you can’t answer or start thinking about it…GO AWAY.
hmmm isnt there a thing about that? Men asking women to Go Away.
its on the tip of my tongue…:)
Actually if I could finda forum I would love to ask any women for an answer.
I posted here and Spawnys because its the only place I have ever found honest women (Tarn, RPW, Liz, others)
And I was a regular for years at MMSL ( before he sold out) and Dalrocks.
To answer the original post question for the average woman
“What Sweetie?
Yes, I see you have a vagina.
I’m sure its very special.
But so does literally half the planet.
Now go over there and listen quietly, the men are talking.
If you have something relevent to say of course I will listen to you.
Now run along.”
Or is that too direct?
OK, now that Horseman has stunned us with his MGTOW assholery and answered his own question, lets see if he can answer a real question.
Let’s just say two miracles happened. First, Horseman woke up one day and none of the current problems with marriage existed and it was marriage 1.0 all over again. Second, Horseman was somehow able to marry a smoking hot HB9.5 when she was 20 years old. Not only was she drop-dead gorgeous, but for the past twenty-something years she’s been a sweet, faithful, feminine, submissive nymphomaniac wife to him. She has been a lady on the street, a chef in the kitchen, a maid in the parlor and an absolute freak in the sheets for over 20 years, but now she’s over 40 and according to him, she’s only a 6.
So, horseman, are you going to ditch her for a younger, hotter, tighter woman? Or maybe, just maybe, you can recognize you’re asking the wrong question based on false assumptions using false logic?
Can you even identify the erroneous assumptions and logical fallacy of your original question now that I’ve pointed to at least some of it? Because if you’re half as smart as you think you are you should realize that your Mrs. Wonderful had to choose to be Mrs. Wonderful every single day of your marriage and will have to continue doing so for however long the marriage lasts. Which means your marital satisfaction has nothing to do with her age and looks, all other things being equal.
Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results, so her history doesn’t really matter, does it? Meaning, of course, that other than shared history your odds with her are no different from any other 40-something that’s just another used up vagina. Right? And your brilliant version of logic has just demonstrated that older women have no value, which means you should ditch her and go shopping for something younger, hotter and tighter because you’re just that kind of guy: a wise MGTOW who correctly sees that a woman’s only real function is to provide sex and her value is measured in how she looks and fucks.
Horseman, perhaps instead of posting MGTOW bullshit you should be teaching your dog how to fetch your fleshlight whenever you’re ready to masturbate. I suspect that would be the most beneficial use of your time and benefit society by helping you avoid propagating your mental retardation into the next generation.
Horseman,
You have gotten great feed back over at spawnys. If that dialogue had happened here I would add a little.
I wish you the best in finding value in other people (including your wife).
Ame
“Polygyny is necessary for monogamy to function correctly.”
can you explain that more … or direct me to a link on your site that does?
The easiest way to explain why polygyny is necessary for monogamy to function correctly is in terms of business monopoly and I was serious when I said the man’s most important relationship tool is his ability to say “Next!” Just as in the business world, where any monopoly situation rapidly devolves into bad behavior, monogamy is no different. As soon as a woman is able to irrevocably remove any competition she is free to mistreat and abuse the relationship.
I think you can admit this is happening in marriage today, but the fact the legal system is now so lopsidedly in favor of women merely exacerbates the existing condition caused by monogamy that’s actually been going on for a long time. The Law of Marriage (Genesis 2:24) did not contain any restriction on the number of wives a man might take and according to Christ (Matthew 19) it also didn’t contain any authority for a man to end a marriage. As He said “but from the beginning it has not been this way” and that means polygyny has been part of the marriage equation from the beginning.
So, based on the evidence, it appears that polygyny is an essential element of marriage and removing it has resulted in a much-degraded marital situation. The real problem is that with polygyny removed, the only option left was divorce, and we all know how that turned out, don’t we
At the bottom of my post “How Marriage Begins According To God” there is a link to the “Big Picture” and the entire left side is an explanation of both divorce and polygyny and why they’re related to each other. On the right side is some historical stuff to demonstrate how we got the current doctrines that don’t agree with what the Bible says. It’s a big image so best to save to disk and look at it with something like the windows photo viewer- especially if you have a scrolling mouse -which makes zooming in and out easy.
Anyway, if you look carefully at Scripture, historically you’ll see a second wife was almost always taken as a “rival” wife because the first wife was not pleasing to the husband for whatever reason. It’s popular to claim men are at fault for everything, but for every asshole husband married to a long-suffering wife, there’s a wife who refuses to get with the program and be what Scripture tells her to be to the detriment of her husband and family. Nowdays I’d have to say it’s heavily skewed to the horrid wives rather than hopeless husbands, but I’m a guy. The husband was not to divorce his wife in the original design, but Moses came along and changed things. That got abused because that word “indecency” was ambiguous enough that it got defined all kinds of ways. Jesus came along and clarified what “indecency” really meant, then, later He took divorce back off the table for His servants in the church. That’s covered on the chart.
Taking a second wife serves several functions. First, it continues to honor the vow and the covenant marriage, even though the wife isn’t holding up her end of things. Second, it subjects the wife to the public shame of being put on the shelf and replaced in the affections of her husband. Shame is a very powerful tool for motivating women because they cannot tolerate being shamed. Third, it’s a real example to other wives in other marriages that the husband does have options if they won’t hold themselves accountable and do what they’re supposed to.
events transpiring here a few weeks pass prove there are no red pill women
artisanal
I have been married for twenty eight years. I raised two kids to independent adulthood. my wife is fifty and middle aged fat. We are not nor have we ever been in wuv. We did however agree we had similar values, wanted kids, wanted to accomplish certain things and so got married as friends specifically to raise a fsmily.
I insisted she be a sahm thru teenage years. We had ups asnd downs and three years ago in the year from hell she moved out for several months.
We are back together. but no games and The Door is right there.
Why? Because we took vows to our different gods, society and our families. Word given means something.
I have nurses literally throwing themselves at me as a 5%er provider. Tempted yes. Done it No. My wife is rare but noit a NAWLT. She tests. she fights hypergamy. But I call her on it and she keeps me honest.
Older women have value. My observation is MOST bank on looks, babies, manshaming and martyrdom to get buy. And those particular things do fade and do not attract NEW men after THEY initiate frivorce.
I personally hope my wife ages like Katherine Hepburn. The Speech to Charlie is one of the sexiest most devote things I ever saw.
My question was to understand the legion I personally see blowing things up in mid forties, not improving, and bewildered why EPL didnt happen.
Cheers.
”what motivated you to do the monogamy thing after two poly relationships?”
I listened to my church and Bible teachers who all told me that marriage was one man and one woman, period… and then I met this woman and… a tale as old as the hills. All in all, it was a huge mistake. In fact, every major problem in my “marriage” was the result of listening to traditional, conservative church teaching. Besides, the poly relationships just kind of happened, I didn’t set out to make them happen.
– what did you prefer about the poly relationships over the monogamous?
In hindsight and what I’ve learned from my relationships with folks who have poly marriages, it’s generally just a better marital structure than monogamy if the man can handle it. I can attract women willing to do that and I can handle the management, but there are also some specific reasons.
1. Easier on the women. In today’s environment monogamy sucks, not just for men but for women too. The competition between the wives and the accountability that provides is wonderful, although it has to be managed. The women can get their emotional needs met from each other and I keep a bit of mystery about me, which is a good thing. The wives have their own “herd” built into the marriage so they aren’t as easily influenced by women who have no interest in the success of the marriage (unlike monogamy), which is really important. In conjunction with that, polygyny is weird enough that any social ostracism the wives suffer tends to force them closer to each other with an “us against the world” kind of outlook.
2. Easier when it comes to children. I really like the rule of “all wives are mom to all children” because it deals with authority and jealousy issues related to children. If a child needs to be changed, fed, counseled, disciplined or just held and loved on, whoever is closest, has the time or perhaps is best suited. I know one family in which all the wives nursed the babies (nice bonding thing) even though one of the wives had to induce lactation in order to do so. There is no age at which a woman cannot induce lactation, so age isn’t an issue in that area.
3. The structure makes the husband more dominant and attractive and the wives more submissive and feminine. There’s no other way to put it. If you understand game, all kind of stuff applies. Other wives find him attractive, therefore he is attractive. The wives compete for his attention, which puts him in a dominant (more attractive) position. His options give him an abundance mentality and all the little games wives play in monogamous marriages don’t work in a poly marriage. If the husband and wives go out together, the preselection bias alone (everybody can see they’re more than just friends) means women will hit on the husband, which proves to the wives that he is a high-value man (other women want him).
4. Higher household income, greater financial stability. One wife works at home, the rest of the adults work outside the home. This gives the family a SAHM along with multiple earned incomes. If someone loses their job, it isn’t the automatic crisis it is in a monogamous marriage. With a SAHM homeschooling is definitely on the agenda and with more adults in the household more can be done with the children.
5. All the incentives are arranged to reward staying in the relationship and penalize leaving it. Which is the opposite of monogamy. With a well-written marital covenant (signed contract of marriage) the only thing a court could possibly be able to deal with if a wife wanted out was child custody, and the husband would probably get custody.
6. Many hands make for light work. With multiple wives (and one working full-time in the home) the chores are all taken care of very quickly, resulting in more family/leisure time for everyone. This also means more time for the pursuit of personal projects and goals as well as more time spent with the children.
7. Plenty of sex. Unlike monogamy, being turned into an incel is not on the agenda and it isn’t just plenty of sex, it’s sexual variety as well.
Notice that I put the sex at the end. Yes, it’s important, but its only one rather small aspect of everything involved with a successful family. Three wives is six marital relationships. Add two children to each wife and you’ve now got a total of 55 family relationships. It’s actually pretty cool to draw it as a diagram. Sex may be the sin qua non of marriage, but relationships are what a family is all about.
Can a woman be red pill? I certainly think that women can be red pill aware, having found it because they want to know why the marketplace is so messed up. However, it is human nature to act in one’s own interest. It is difficult to avoid taking advantage when so many concessions are made to women.
Artisanal Toad,
I can see how polygamy solves a lot of problems but, at the bottom of it, we don’t have enough incentive for women to get with the program as things are.
Horseman,
I have had mental exercises in which I try to explain human mating and marriage to horses. They usually respond with a lot of snorting.
Fuzzie –
“Horseman,
I have had mental exercises in which I try to explain human mating and marriage to horses. They usually respond with a lot of snorting.”
you crack me up!!!!! 🙂
Ame,
How would you expect a horse to respond? They would see it all as needlessly complex.
After all, they have “horse sense”.
Fuzzie – LOL!
you, my Bear Friend, make this world a better place simply for being here 🙂
I’d rather be a silly bear than a sad one.
Horseman you are right, I think your question may have been misunderstood. Many a 40 some frivorcee thinks life is going to be perfect if she just “sheds her chrysalis” only to find her smp/mmp isn’t what it was when she married and it’s a cold, cruel, uncertain world out there. I have seen many who could not be talked out of it at the time come to regret their decision greatly later. And when it really starts to hurt is 55+, I know several such “SIW” types who now have nothing, nobody, no retirement, living w kids if they are lucky, and little hope of things changing for the better. One reaps what they sow. If you don’t plant in spring, play all summer, enjoy fall, come winter times are tough. Not good strategy.
RPG,
For those over fifty five, what they saw in their youth as an abundance of men has been whittled down to nothing by the Grim Reaper. Yet, they still cling to the abundance mentality.
Indeed Fuzzie, a few see, but many continue to blame everyone but their own choices.
RPG,
Maybe it will have been worth it if a few women learn that men will only been on OkCupid for a short time before they go back to the cave.
@ fuzzie re the cave, indeed that is true. Women falsely assume men will put up with almost anything and then be there at a moment’s notice when desired. It doesn’t work that way, as much as women wish it did.
RPG,
The presumption is that male libido will overwhelm reason. We have been holding ourselves in check since our early teenage years.
Ninety percent of men only last three months on online dating.
RPG,
I doubt women will ever really come all the way over to the mans side of things. At best I think men and women and meet in the middle. Here is my little story to explain why:
For a many hundreds of years human males and females liked to play the game of life together on team US (us as in you and me). Both genders found this arrangement mutually beneficial and they would both sacrifice to make team US work.
Now there were some people (more women than men) who would play for team US even though they did not like it and would prefer something else. Social pressure and a lack of other options pushed them into playing on a team they didn’t want. A few of these dissatisfied women found support and backing for a new path in life. To gain social acceptance they relabeled team US as team MEN. They then started a huge scheme to convince all women that the goal of team MEN was to control women.
What these dissatisfied women really wanted was to play for themselves on a new team called team ME, but they knew that it would not be accepted so they labeled the new team, team WOMEN. With backing and support groups they then proceeded to tell everyone that you either support team MEN or you support team WOMEN. The whole time hiding and obscuring that it was really a question of supporting team US vs. team ME.
Over time more and more women were convinced to support team WOMEN and thus fewer and fewer women were willing to put in the work and sacrifices needed to make team US work. It is/was much easier to play for team ME. See they had been told that playing for team WOMEN/ME allows you to have it all (family, career, house, etc.), and it would take less effort because they would no longer be held down by team MEN. Women started leaving the playing field because the grass was greener somewhere else.
After many years of women leaving the field to play for team WOMEN/ME, the men started to notice. Some started to respond by getting mad and saying “if you will not come play with us men, we are going to take our ball home so no one can play”. Men were going to show them a thing or two. Failing to realize that women left the field first so walking off the field wouldn’t show anyone, except those still playing on team US.
Some of the men decided to make a new team as they left the field and they called it team ME-N (pronounced me dash N). These men started to tell others about this awesome new team and as they talked they figured out better and better ways to get back at women, never figuring out that those women had already moved on.
Leaving the field and joining the new ME-N team gave the people/entities who backed team WOMEN/Me power over these men. A power they did not have until after men started responding. First women fell victim to these groups and now men are doing the same.
Today women can leave the field and join team ME and men can leave the field and join team ME-N. Neither gender is focused on working together leaving fewer and fewer players for team US. To try and bring men or women back together on team US is mostly a fool’s errand, but the best way to do it is by going out and teaching them the lies and inviting them back.
GoFigure,
I liked that.
thanks
I’ve seen a couple of women get frivorced to take up with someone who gave them the “tingles”. Almost all of them traded down, and regretted it later. They also tried fixing things with their ex, and that crashed and burned as well. Unfortunately (or fortunately) stuff like that becomes know to other guys, who will think twice about making an approach for anything serious. And if a guy is serious, there’s a good chance that she’s not in a place where she could have a healthy relationship, and is just another crash waiting to happen. Not necessarily all the woman’s fault though, and we’ve all been fed the Disney fairytale of what a relationship should be.
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