Tags
attraction, battle of the sexes, casual sex, commitment, dating, divorce, love, marriage, red pill, relationships, temptation
Something that can get a gal in trouble quick is letting her “feelings” guide her way in life, rather than her values.
The antiquated word for it is “temptation” and it is old as time itself. Temptation has led many a girl astray.
And oh boy, can doing things you know you shouldn’t sure be tempting — but time and experience has taught me that even if it seems like no harm, no foul at the time, giving into temptation often (almost always, actually) has repercussions you don’t consider at the time.
The thing about letting what you know is “right” lead the way versus what you “feel” is that for the most part the concepts of “right” and “wrong” are absolutes (despite what modern society may say, there is a well known “top ten” list, btw) and doing the right thing may seem to “cost you” at the time, but it can pay off mighty well in the long run.
For example, when I was 14 I was dating a guy who was 17. (I know, I know… in retrospect that was not wise, note to other 14-year-old girls!) He would pick me up in his beautiful vintage hot rod and take me out and we would neck for hours. Wow did I like him and wow was that fun. But whenever he tried to push for “more” something always told me to say, “No, not yet…” and we never got any further than 2nd base (on top of clothes, mind you.)
Not that I wasn’t tempted, or he wasn’t either, but I had been raised with a value system that said I was too young, and I was. Even when other girls I knew were going all the way.
Well, after a few months of that he broke up with me. Soon after I found out that he had gotten another girl pregnant during the same time period we had been seeing each other. At 18, he became a father although he and she did not get together.
A few years later I ran across him at a gathering at a mutual friend’s house. He sought me out right away, and poured his heart out to me, saying how much he regretted not waiting, and that he was sorry about all that. I told him no problem, and no hard feelings. I knew that he was already paying the consequences for giving into temptation (with her, not me) and that he had suffered enough, knowing he had a child he’d never really be a “father” to and who he very rarely if ever got to even see. I can’t imagine what a hard price to pay that must have been, on all sides.
But that time, they were not my crosses to bear. You see, not giving into temptation then saved me from possibly becoming a mom at 15. I am glad to this day I did not.
And don’t get me wrong, he wasn’t a “bad” person. He wasn’t some cad, trying to hoodwink me. We were both making our choices and I knew full well what I was doing, and (luckily) what I decided not to do even though we probably “could have” gotten away with it.
Now I will not claim I have never given into temptation, of course we all have, but I can say pretty much every time I have done something I knew I shouldn’t, or very nearly every time, I have lived to regret it. It rarely pays off in the positive. Call it morality or karma or cosmic balance, but I have seen time and again it gets you somehow, some way, almost every time.
I will keep thinking on it, but I cannot recall a single time doing the “right” thing came back to bite me. Interesting.
Obviously, temptation can take many forms beyond sexual temptation. All are equally damaging (and it sounds almost naive to say, but also wrong!)
Living by the ideals of “right” and “wrong” may not be much in fashion today, but the truth is those lines are there to protect you, not to deny you. So the next time you are tempted to cross them, try remembering that you’re really only harming yourself and very often others as well.
Alas, Bloom. I can’t relate.
I was taken to a convent at age three and released when I reached almost 19, just in time to meet Mike. I’d never kissed nor dated any other boys. That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.
((flawlessly chaste and perfect angel emoticon))
But I have misbehaved plenty since….
😀
Gah I don’t like that coprophagic grin either. I miss my silly tongue emoticon!
@:-P
I’d comment but I’m ducking behind the coffee table, dodging all the neo-Victorian virtue signalling. Thanks for the update on high school. I’d never heard about high school kids necking in cars before.
It’s stunning to me how red pill and brave this blog has become.
BV you do realize this blog is aimed at young women? Do you not think this is appropriate content for that audience?
dodging all the neo-Victorian virtue signalling
Virtue signaling it is?
Or voice of experience it would be?
Right. Everyone posting is middle aged. But you write for the children. Carry on.
Perhaps BV and Ton would like to take turns doing a red pill themed post aimed at helping young women navigate the modern world? I am truly curious what you guys would say.
I do my best to translate what I have heard around the sphere, but naturally not being male perhaps I am not quite getting the translation correct?
BV I can see the back end stats for this site and I can attest the number of folks commenting versus visiting is over 100 to 1. I am not sure who they are, but I hope they are at least partially young women!
Not that middle aged or older women are not also welcome, but I guess I was trying to aim for advice I wish I had gotten myself, and also what I would say to my own girls in a few years based on what I have learned/experienced, BEFORE they spend years making some of the mistakes/buying the feminist kool aide like I did.
Perhaps you should focus on how the world works, instead of making shit up about how the world works. Since this is a “redpillgirl” blog, that should be straightforward.
My experience is that it’s impossible to bullshit young men and women. Why not try a different approach, one that describes the world we all live in?
YMMV, but I’d leave out the parts about men are icky-poo and come on to attractive women to satisfy their selfish, atavistic desires. Most girls want to be an object of male desire. So they’d likely be confused by direction to infantalize men as base sexual creatures who cannot be trusted to be mature or honest.
Very insightful thinking. I wish I had more to contribute but I love the topics you raise in your posts. I hope you keep it up.
“Very insightful thinking. I wish I had more to contribute but I love the topics you raise in your posts. I hope you keep it up.”
Agreed!
BV, I am not sure if you mean in general or this post, but they had sex, they made a baby, that’s how life works. I am not saying he is yucky for wanting sex (or that she is) or trying to be Pollyanna about that, I don’t think. They gave into temptation. There were lifelong repercussions. That’s reality. Playing with fire burns.
I’m with Sue. “Agreed!”
RPG,
What may be unsaid is that denying men sex is not virtuous in itself. It is an exercise in power. Hours long make out sessions? You were playing with fire and doing the equivalent of pulling wings off flies.
Sorry to be so harsh but, you have no idea what it is like to be a high school boy. What our heroine should have done was to cut things short and gone home.
Denial of sex, while it is a woman’s prerogative, is an issue for me. At least for single guys, there is hope in finding another girl. For married men…
BV you don’t had to agree, I guess I am curious what you would advise women differently when it comes to temptation?
Fuzzie point noted, it seemed to be mutually enjoyed but perhaps for a young guy that’s not good. Better to wrap up early. Noted!
Sorry to get all hot under the collar but, this gets to me. I have been there a few times in my life. What I have done is to accept it as rejection, put my shoes back on, and walk out the door. It’s either rejection or teasing, both are good reasons to walk. It hurts because I really liked the girl and it could have gone a long way.
By the way, 100:1 is standard for views to comments.
I hope what I have said is of benefit to young women. They have a lot of power and if they use it for ill, it will scar their boys for life.
To expand on what I said, a man in love can move mountains. Power like that needs to be applied judiciously.
14 is pretty young, Fuzzie. I don’t think most girls know their power at that age. It’s very new to them. Maybe now with the internet they do, but I had no idea.
(then again, convent…*cough* but more seriously, I was almost 17 before I kissed a boy, ever…now it was obvious men were staring at me, even to oblivious me, but I didn’t really put the two together the stares just really unsettled me rather than making me feel “sexual power”)
Sorry for the highschool anecdote BV. LOL 🙂
BLoom:
BV and Fuzzie are correct here. Your anecdote really doesn’t do much to help young women understand the way the world of sexual attraction works and how the world really is. You might avoid anecdotes and instead speak/write in general terms about female nature.
Your anecdote was an attempt to describe how women should avoid sex because bad things can happen if a woman has sex too soon. It’s better to describe the nature of a woman, her sexual power, and what that power can do when wielded correctly and incorrectly.
here’s a quote from something I wrote a long time ago, posted over at dannyfrom504.com. It was some “advice to women” thing I pissed out of my keyboard.
_________________________________________________
“Men display themselves to women. Women choose men based on the displays they see. Thus, you will be the one doing the choosing. Men will approach you and talk to you, chat you up. Almost all the time, it is because they want to get to know you with the ultimate goal of having sex with you. They are not talking to you for intellectual stimulation or to befriend you. They want to have sex with you.
“You will not find most of these men attractive. You will have to reject the vast majority of them. A simple “I’m not interested” will suffice. Be kind. Do the rejection in private if you can. If you can’t, do it as quietly and discreetly as possible.
“The men you will find attractive will be those who display confidence, power, charisma, and dominance. Just recognize that most other women will also find these same men attractive. There will be other women who will be better at attracting these men than you are. If you deploy sex to “get” these men and beat out other women, then about the only thing you can reasonably expect from these men is sex.
“In relationships with men you will be governed mostly by your feelings, while men look to their thought processes and judgments. This is not a bad thing; it just is. Don’t make decisions based on feelings or your girlfriends’ judgments.”
***
“To keep a man, you must offer more than looks, age and chastity. You must cultivate a pleasant personality. Optimism, cheerfulness and an upbeat outlook are key here. Men don’t want a pessimist, or a woman who complains and nags. Be kind, pleasant, optimistic and nondemanding. This is not to say that your needs are not important. They are. Just recognize that his needs are important too. Your wants and needs do not always come first.
“Don’t be crass, rude, vulgar, profane, sarcastic or caustic. Don’t complain about his hobbies or interests. Men absolutely hate it when their women complain, grouse, or bother them about things. Men absolutely hate being around a pessimistic woman who can’t find anything good about her life, her circumstance, the people around her, or herself. Men do not like gossiping, sniping or sarcasm from women. Most of all, men absolutely do not want to be with women who act like, talk like or look like men.”
________________________________
Those quotes are how the world really is, and the forces that were at work when you were necking in your 17 year old boyfriend’s Camaro.
In the “real world” of today, the exchange doesn’t happen because the 17 year old has a bicycle, not a Camaro. And he doesn’t have the stones to approach a 14 year old hottie. He whacks it to online video porn in his bedroom every night.
The 16 year old high school linebacker approaches the 14 year old girl who already has her Gardasil vaccination and her birth control pills, and he takes her virginity in his bedroom. They sleep together more often at her place because her mom and dad are divorced and mom doesn’t really care what 14 YO does.
Ouch Deti…
And by sixteen she is leaking fecal material into her panties from taking too many rear entries.
And the butts and guts nurses note, “Gee….we’re seeing a lot of teenaged girls in here. It used to just be homosexual men…”
😦
Note to girls and women reading…don’t do anal too often.
That could be you.
This is a true story, and the increase in afflictions (in teenaged girls and young women) that were once exclusive to male homosexuals is actually happening.
It seems a thing in particular these days for girls who take it up the boot to “preserve their virginity”.
“BV you don’t had to agree, I guess I am curious what you would advise women differently when it comes to temptation?”
I’m not BV, but I’d advise women not to get in the Camaro in the first place if she doesn’t intend to sleep with the guy. I’d advise her to be upfront and clear about what she will do and won’t do with a guy long before the “alone with a guy in a car” situation ever happens.
If she’s going to fuck, then go through with it and fuck. If she’s not going to fuck, then don’t get in the car in the first place. And if she is going to limit her sexual conduct, saying “this far and no farther”, then she needs to make that clear long before she ever gets alone with the guy.
_________________________________
I’d tell the girl more about her nature and men’s nature, re “how the world works”.
Boys pay attention to her because they like her, want to spend time with her and want to have sex with her or as much quasi sexual conduct as they can get. She is doing all this because she wants attention from boys — she wants any kind of attention she can get, and if all she can get is sexual attention, she’ll take that. Her youth and physical attractiveness give her immense power. She must wield it wisely. She can use it to get sexual attention from the hottest men; or she can use it to get attention from boys/men who will actually like her and care about her. It’s her choice.
IF she uses that power to get sexual attention from the hottest men, there will be men who will expect her to live up to her representations and might not stop if they and/or she are unscrupulous and/or intoxicated. If she uses that power to be more selective about the men she associates with, she might be able to get a man who actually cares about her. In high school, though, most men are going to want sex and aren’t going to “care” all that much about her because neither the boys nor the girls are all that mature and are not fully formed emotionally or relationally.
Deti,
Your characterization of the present is more than a little Scary. Fourteen year old girls are more sophisticated than twenty year olds when I was that age.
Also, while it was on another thread, I believe that single and married people shouldn’t mix. For the lonely divorced women, there are a lot of single men to choose from. They can’t be hard to find.
Liz
Yeah I’ve heard of this phenomenon of high school girls needing treatment for anal/rectal injuries from anal sex.
Five years ago when I showed up here the outrage was about high school girls blowing guys in high school bathrooms and the backs of school buses.
This is really all getting to the nub of what this thread should have been about — girls do what they do because they crave attention like the drunk craves his drink and the nicotine addict craves his next ciggie break. And they do what they do because they don’t understand why they’re doing it — for attention — and because no one ever tells them they cannot.
Liz: Being a 47 year old man, and having been married a long time, I haven’t met too many women who are all that keen on anal sex. IOW, they’re doing it because the hot attractive men they’re fucking want it; not because they find it so pleasurable. And these guys are making it clear: If you won’t do it, I’ll move on to the next girl who will do it. If you want me in your life, you’ll do what I want.
Sounds quite familiar, really. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve had women (even my own wife) say or strongly hint: If you won’t do/be/say this, I’ll break up with you and NO SEX FOR YOU, or I’ll just stop having sex with you. If you want me in your life, you’ll do/be/say what I want.
It makes me think these attractive men are using their own power which is a result of their own attractiveness contrasted with most men’s relative unattractiveness.
That’s what this thread should have been about — how a woman uses and can use her sexual power.
I am more than a little afraid of the level of sophistication girls have. It dovetails nicely with boys just out of high school being rabid MGTOWs. If they haven’t experienced it first hand, they have seen or heard about second hand.
That means the vast majority of the boys are beyond frustrated and, even beyond angry, with the sexual marketplace.
This is not good.
Fuzzie:
All these girls really have is sexual “sophistication”, meaning they have a broad and deep understanding of the mechanics of sexual practices. They have a lot of sexual experience.
They also have a lot of relational experience in discerning who is hawt and who is not. They are all paying attention to the most attractive men, and ignoring all others.
It is because no one is telling girls “no” and “you cannot do that” and “you are not allowed to do that”. It is because they don’t have fathers putting down guardrails on their behavior. It is because, using the anecdote Bloom mentioned, women are being “trusted” to put down their own guardrails (which essentially means they have no guardrails). They live in a world Dalrock described, of roller coasters popping up wherever they are, and they ride the roller coaster, and everyone else around them makes it safe, and they are not expected to do, say or be anything to make themselves safe.
Deti,
I have heard stories of fathers who attempted to put limits. They get trashed in this culture.
You made me thing of the future for these girls. They don’t have one. They may try to tell stories, or believe that men will buy into the “new normal” but, I don’t think that men will buy it. This will not end well for them.
Thank you Deti for adding all that, you are correct, young women need to hear the “why’s” behind the behavior, too. And the rest. And from a guy. Well done! Thank you!
Fuzzie:
Half these girls don’t even live with their fathers.
Deti,
I am starting to see the ramifications of all this. Somewhere else, a woman wrote that women have three life stages: maiden, matron, and crone. In the current society, they are stuck in the maiden stage. Without a father, they can’t observe their mothers interact as matrons. This is basic and ionly considers part of the social aspect. As for the sexual aspect, we have a bunch of alpha chasing superficial temporary sex partners.
This is bad.
“This is really all getting to the nub of what this thread should have been about — girls do what they do because they crave attention like the drunk craves his drink and the nicotine addict craves his next ciggie break. And they do what they do because they don’t understand why they’re doing it — for attention — and because no one ever tells them they cannot.”
Agreed Deti, today girls are taught all about birth control, and how not to get pregnant, and how to have safe sex, yada yada but not anything about what you are revealing. Can you take the story forward as the girl goes into her 20s, and 30s, and where there are forks in the road, and what the result of taking those paths will be? I think that’s something ypung women need to hear, what lies ahead based on their choices…
And also how those choices are viewed from the male perspective, not just from the “you go girl!!!” Advice of other gals…
Or BV, or Ton, or any of the guys…
I know I vex you at times but I truly appreciate you guys adding the male point of view here, a you have a perspective women seldom hear but badly need to… From a guy.
RPG,
What Deti is describing is how things stand now. To extrapolate to the future is something that requires genius and, even then, it cannot account for the unexpected or unforeseen changes to the culture. Anything ventured today would be a guess and my guess is that it would be wrong because the status quo cannot be tolerated indefinitely.
Before seeing your comments, I was worried for your kids. Building the tower won’t help. They still have to go to school and there they will have to deal with feminist teachers trying to influence them and peer pressure.
@ fuzzie blissfully my oldest isn’t I to all the games and such, she’s quiet and shy and not attention seeking. She wants to be homeschooled actually, something we are looking into. I think it’s perfect timing to get her out of the mainstream…
RPG,
One thing that helped another blogger was to move from suburbia to rural America. If you are already there, that should help. I hope that you can keep your kids away from this. Deti has a finger on the pulse of the culture but, I hope that he is wrong about this malaise persisting.
Agreed Deti, today girls are taught all about birth control, and how not to get pregnant, and how to have safe sex, yada yada but not anything about what you are revealing. Can you take the story forward as the girl goes into her 20s, and 30s, and where there are forks in the road, and what the result of taking those paths will be? I think that’s something ypung women need to hear, what lies ahead based on their choices…
My paradigm is different from other men, so take this for what its worth.
There are really only two main forks:
teens- choosing how to express your sexuality. You will find men that will support whatever you decide just be upfront and honest about it. An understand that choices will limit your future options.
early twenties- choose to prioritize family or something else. If family is what you want become the type of girl that men want in their lives. Do not play games. If you don’t want family, or don’t want it right then be honest about it.
late twenties, thirties, forties – If you don’t like were you are in life, revisit your two forks. And if you believe in God, pray a lot.
RPG, after thinking about this, I don’t think my last comment will be helpful to your readers. If you get the chance please remove this comment and my last one.
Hello, this looks like an interesting blog, maybe a good place for much-needed discussions. On this post, I’m a little confused by some of the comments from some of the guys. Are you saying a girl should never make out with a guy, unless she is going to have sex with him then & there or at least very soon?
Just yesterday, I was thinking about my high school boyfriend who was my first make out partner, and smiling…remembering the feeling of warmth and closeness and how nice it felt (though scary!) having my breasts caressed for the first time. (I certainly wasn’t ready to have sex with him or anybody else at that age!) Was I really torturing him, by getting him turned on and then not satisfying him? Would it have been better to wrap up our dates with just a handshake or a kiss on the cheek?
Shouldn’t developing physical intimacy, like developing emotional intimacy, be a gradual process?
Really listening, really trying to understand
–Laurel
Laurel,
Long makeout sessions that don’t go there are a torment. It must be the same for women, perhaps to a lesser degree.
Really? I think it is realistic, which is helpful. But if you like I can remove it.
I definitely think this is the answer for all your readers:
Young women need to get over this. The poor penguins don’t know what to do?
Hi Laurel, welcome. That’s a good question. I don’t think they are saying if you make out with a guy, you should be prepared to go all the way. Especially I think if people are young teens, things are assumed to move slower (at least when I was young, which was admittedly over 20 years ago!) say than if someone is a divorced 40-year-old, for example. But I think what they are saying is that perhaps young girls (and even older/sexually experienced women who are not wanting to get sexual with a new person just yet) should be aware of the male experience and that perhaps long drawn out but go nowhere sessions are not as good as keeping things short and sweet, showing interest in other ways rather than with long make out sessions. I am not a guy so I don’t know, but that’s kind of what I am understanding. I had actually not thought of it that way before, but can see how that makes sense. It’s not like the girl “owes” the guy if he gets aroused, but if the girl is not wanting to be sexual, getting a guy too aroused is kind of not fair. I am tying to think of a female equivalent, which is difficult as it can actually be physically uncomfortable for a male to be aroused without release where for women, this is usually not the experience. I guess imagine George Clooney (or whoever you think is really hot hot hot) making out with you for hours and then just when you think “here it is yay!” saying, “Well, it’s been great, gotta go!” If that makes sense? It feels like a rejection, even if not intended as such.
I am not following you Go Figure…. can you elaborate?
Oh sorry, the cartoons hadn’t loaded before, never mind 🙂
Fuzzy, I am glad you voiced this because I do think it is a point of misunderstanding between the genders. If a guy talks about “blue balls” well women can get all up in arms like he’s saying the gal “owes” him sex or something, when really what he is saying is, “my balls hurt. Ouch!” Making a guys balls hurt is “not cool.” So a gal not being too affectionate when she is not ready might be a good compromise. That said, she runs the risk of the old misunderstanding that she’s “not that interested.” It’s a catch-22 of sorts, but I think keeping things short and sweet and expressing interest other ways and well if he walks, know that’s kind of the result of other girls being more than willing to jump in the sack quickly, so the increased acceptance of casual sex by women kind lowered the bar so to speak vs. prior to the causal sex/sexual revolution/hook up culture phenom. But of course premarital sex always happened, hormones being hormones… but when the stakes were higher (no birth control really, pregnancy pretty much = marriage) people (women, really) were less quick to jump in the sack. Men having lots less optionality to “jump in the sack” are going to go for it whenever possible in many cases.
And of course I suppose a guy could also be standoffish as a way to protect himself, it would be interesting to see how a female reacted to that though! I wonder if she would feel rejected? Hum… Interesting to think on…
It goes back to the old opposing sexual strategies of the two genders, men can spread their genes far and wide w/o having to factor in a child (esp. before paternity testing, when a guy could be long gone before the signs of pregnancy showed) while women need to consider carefully each sexual experience, knowing if she got pregnant, she was having a baby no getting around that. So women used to demand commitment first, men would exchange commitment for sex. If a large percentage of women are willing to have sex w/o commitment, the whole thing kind of comes apart…
RPG,
It’s teasing and the guy should get out of there. Should he stay, he is allowing his dignity to be undercut. In any event, she said “no” and should be taken at her word. She said “no”, she is not interested, time to move on.
Simple as that.
One more thought. To get to this point, a normal guy is going to really like her.
Her choice.
This question isn’t one for alphas because, by definition, alphas are accepted. This is a question or betas and it is rejection by default. As betas, we just have to accept it and walk on.
Fuzzie,
I have a question for you. If you know it is not going to go all the way, is it still torture and worth dumping her for?
I ask because I have got my girlfriends off as they were grinding even through their clothes. I didn’t even get to their boobs, second base was a no-go. I must say that I enjoyed getting them over the edge even though I didn’t get there myself. And I knew it was not going there. I think it scared the bageegee’s out of them because they were much more cautious after that.
Just so nobody thinks I was some kind of player; this only happened a 2-3 times and one of the girls became my wife.
@ Fuzzie I would not say just because things don’t go there right away that she isn’t interested. I know that’s a common saying in the sphere, but gals who jump right in the sack are usually more than the average cray-cray, so I would not consider it an asset, nor a sign of true interest. Of course it should be clear she’s interested in other ways…
“…but gals who jump right in the sack are usually more than the average cray-cray …”
I realize this is a “red pill blog” but in fact, ‘gals’ who jump right in the sack are mainstream, high-achieving intelligent women with good bodies who want to jump right in the sack because … because … they want to and empowerment and lots of O’s and all the rest of it. This crap about cray-cray is projection. Men are the cautious ones these days, so evidently the middle-aged girls have met a few cautious men who didn’t do what they wanted when they wanted it. Role reversal always sorts these things out.
***
In terms of fair maiden Laurel, if you want to date a man and not sleep with him, end the date before the foreplay starts. (Like this is complicated.)
OK, so I know it’s complicated, here’s what you say and do.
“I had the most wonderful time tonight and I hope we go out again.”
“I think you are a good guy and I’m glad you asked me out.”
“Good night.”
“Bye.”
See? Very complicated. Unless you’re a feminist pretending to be RP and wish to advance a narrative of male exploitation of innocent, chaste womynhood.
BV, that may be but being hyper sexual is in fact one of the indicators of the cluster B personality disorders… not that all women who do so are that, but it can be a red flag. Just sayin’
Also, I know it is also commonly said in the sphere that a woman who jumps right in the sack is all in, but I know more than one woman irl who brag about using their sexuality as a tool to manipulate and get what they want, and they don’t give a rip about those guys, or empowerment, or orgasams. Perhaps if a guy is one who women regularly jump in bed with out of lust (the top 20%) this may not be the case, but if I were a man I would be suspect of it as I, again, know women who fully admit to using it as a way to sucker a guy into doing whatever it is she wants him to do. If he’s thirsty, or not used to female attention, guys can get led around by the nose. So I was more speaking about that than to your experiences. Based on what you describe, you must be in the top 20 to get the kind of action you do so your experiences, while normal for you, are likely not what the average guy experiences. If that makes sense?
Right, because you’ve dated so many women.
I always listen to what women say instead of observing what they do.
but in fact, ‘gals’ who jump right in the sack are mainstream, high-achieving intelligent women with good bodies who want to jump right in the sack because … because … they want to and empowerment and lots of O’s
But good wife and mother material they would be?
True bv I have not dated any women, but I have seen gals work guys over better than a con, and not just ones who admit to it. Women can be darn trecherous, as is commonly discussed around the sphere. I am glad I don’t date women, actually. I trust very few of them myself.
GoFigure,
Walking out the door is not necessarily dumping. Getting away from the source of conflict is a good thing. She can call later. But, you have to be prepared to be dumped at any time with no notice.
RPG,
I don’t know what is going on but, you’re all right. You may not know it all but, you are trying. It may be some kind of dominance/submission issue. Who knows?
Thanks Fuzzie, I would be the first to admit I don’t know everything, and that I am open to learning! My experience certainly is not all experience. I was thinking of Vixen, for example. I have seen her play four guys at once, each believing they were “the one.” And each convienently “helping with her bills,” as well!
Bloom, BV:
I don’t think most girls who jump “right in the sack” are all “cray-cray”. Depends on where they are in life.
Generally, girls are jumping in the sack because they want attention and sex, in roughly that order. So BV is right in that it’s because they want the good feels and empowerment and fun times and warm fuzzies etc.
But many of them, particularly when you get to women who are 30 and over, have accumulated some baggage. That’s not the same thing as crazy. Maybe they’ve grown accustomed to using men and being used by men. Or they have a personality disorder (which is really a disorder in one’s relational skills and real time responses to other people and situations, not true psychopathy or schizophrenia). They’re not crazy; they’re just a bit neurotic and weird (aren’t we all?).
Bloom, most girls are sleeping with men because they want sex, and “empowerment”, and the good feelz. They’re not doing it for manipulation unless they’re gold diggers or actually married to the men they’re sleeping with.
Could be Deti, perhaps for both women and men. As one of my favorite sphere quotes by another goes, “We’re all wandering around in the smoking wreckage.” It’s so broken on so many level it’s true the odds are mightly against relationships these days, especially under the current paradigm. The “new” way is a complete fail for both genders, ultimately. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts the gals shagging for fun times and empowerment aren’t actually winning in the long term. Or very happy, although there may be fleeting highs along w the crushing lows. What I am saying is I would not recommend to other women a carousel approach, despite it’s current acceptance and popularity. I think BV and I may be talking about different slices of the same pie. I doubt BV is recommending such an approach works either, or then again perhaps he is? Short term maybe it works. Long term I don’t think it’s the path to empowerment or EPL would be a successful life strategy instead of pulp fiction at best.
The message of the post (forget the anecdote for a moment) was for women to avoid letting temptation (or the hamster, or her feels, or whatever term one chooses) guide her way. Avoiding the carousel would be one example.
“Don’t touch the shiny thing.
**Don’t** touch the shiny thing.
DON’T TOUCH THE…
…oh…
you touched the shiny thing”
I myself have spent a lifetime yielding to temptation.
So, instead of This Sinner telling you which cards to play,
let Stefan lay out the odds.
Quick screen-grabs at:
0:24:23 Child Abuse by Family Structure
0:25:25 Child Abuse by Parent
0:37:57 Poverty Rate
0:40:30 Poverty
0:40:35 Homeless or Runaway Children
0:43:31 Education
0:43:50 High School Dropouts
0:44:30 Children Behavioral Disorders
0:48:50 Rapists with Displaced Anger
0:51:00 Youth Suicides
0:54:30 Crime
0:56:15 Drug Use and Family Dinners
0:59:10 Early Puberty
1:00:15 Early/Late Puberty
1:03:00 Adolescent Impregnation
1:04:25 Infant Death
1:05:15 Night-time Awakenings
1:06:10 Language Development
Ladies, be informed, have fun.
I wish you joy.
fwiw, I think the women having sex immediately in a relationship may be “high achieving, highly intelligent women,” but there is something wrong with them or with their perspective on trust and relationship growth/dynamics. Its like a set-up for a failed relationship (moving too fast), although maybe some could last longterm. Women who do this are missing a pretty important aspect of morality and judgment (maturity) in their character that will carry over into how they treat their man that stays with them later (if they even want there to be a “later” …).
It sounds similar to the women who are 29 or 30, still unmarried and “couldn’t imagine being a mom right now!” I know some women like this – Christian women at that. I’m pretty sure they jump in the sack very quickly with a guy… because they lack judgment, morality, maturity, are selfish, don’t want to “grow up” yet, etc. if you want a woman like that, go ahead but you won’t find happiness chasing easy women. Relationships with them will not last or at best, will be horrible, because they lack what it takes to have a “good” relationship (of course there are always outliers… lol I guess this is the male version of “But NAWALT!!!!”) Wanting to believe easy women will make good partners is blue pill.
Of the only married couples we know that are truly happy (very few), the women weren’t the kind that have sex immediately. Maybe its an outlier thing to have morals and want to wait to make sure the man genuinely cares about them and isn’t just going to use them for a one night stand (or a series of failed short relationships that constantly flips). Its just not a recipe for happiness….
RPG,
A while back, Rollo had a post on his alpha commenters abusing his beta commenters and the newbies. I didn’t read it thoroughly and I didn’t even glance at the comments. I guess there was no need. To sum it up fortunate people hold people less fortunate than them in contempt. I have worked enough Christmases in retail to be fully versed in this principle.
I had forgotten about Vixen. You know some winners.
I haven’t made a study of narcissism but, the alpha mindset does take on some aspects of it. Narcissists can’t stand dissension.
Another thing about narcissists, they are charming. The best known was Josef Stalin and he was said to be very charming.
@ Fuzzie, I know what you mean, I am not so sure the “haves” feel contempt so much as they just can’t relate to the struggles of the “have nots.”
I knew a girl who was just by luck, unusually attractive. She has a very angelic, baby face and so people just assumed she was such (she was NOT) but things were just easier for her, doors opened, people sucked up to her, helped her… she herself was oblivious that life was not that easy for everyone. And why would she know that? She had never experienced it herself.
Similar to how women have trouble understanding how it feels to be a man trying to get a date, for example. For women, it’s usually much easier. So they think, “What’s the big deal?” Not knowing any better…
Stopping to put one’s self in another’s shoes, to really consider life from their pop, and be very helpful in building bridges and understanding others. When someone is vexing me or I don’t understand them, I will stop and do this and then I usually see it’s not even about me… it’s the world as they see it.
Fuzzy, I do not know why but I seem to have a bling sort or a magnet for narcissists both male and female, friends and in relationships. Indeed they are very, very charming, they seem perfect at first, in fact. They can seem very thoughtful, caring, “there for you” and such. It’s only over time that the truth is revealed… they see you not as a person with needs, thoughts, and emotions of your own, but a tool for them to get what they want. A means to an end. It’s like they are stuck in the developmental stage where one believes only they are “real” and everyone else is just there as an illusion, not “real” people. Well of course that is not true. But that’s how narcissists can justify, for example, completely disregarding the feelings, needs, emotions of others. And when you don’t do what they want, watch out! Not allowed. It’s not fun.
What I have learned is the best defense is a good offense. Having good boundries is the key. They will try to “work” you, but bc of the boundaries they “bounce off” and go looking for someone who is more easily “worked.”
I could write a whole post about this… in short, people fall deeply in love with them only to discover they cannot love anyone but themselves.
p.s. I am not saying anyone here is this, btw. This is a general post.
Also to everyone, as a general note, please refrain from singling out other commenters by name in general. It’s possible to make a general point w/o naming names. Thanks! 🙂
RPG,
I worked too many Thanksgivings and Christmases. I was always tapped because I was single. Over the years, I lost the respect of my family. All to sell something to somebody that couldn’t take a day off from shopping and I am talking about absurdly small transactions. I calculated that a pack of cigarettes was twice the average transaction.
I didn’t name names, except for Josef Stalin and, he won’t take it personally. That was a bad thread yesterday over at Spawny’s and I took it personally. It’s hard not to when it is directed at you personally.
It is a measure of genius to be able to put yourself in another’s shoes. Shelby Foote said that this was Abraham Lincoln’s strength. I am going to break your rule and say that I could care less what Ton’s reaction to that would be.
RPG,
I just read a group of comments elsewhere. What gets to me is the sheer smug kneejerk presumed superiority of self-professed alphas. It’s not my job to fix them.
Re narcissists, it strikes me that there are two separate dimensions to what is usually called Empathy: (1) the ability to *understand* other people’s feelings, and (2) the tendency to *care* about other people’s feelings. When you get (1) but not (2), you get a very dangerous kind of personality that makes a good con man or electable but damaging politician. When you get (2) but not (1)…which is rarer but does happen, you get someone who is genuinely trying to be helpful but is so bad at getting inside the heads of others that he winds up doing more harm than good.
If someone meets the first condition but not the second, that would be the perfect qualification for a sadist. Yikes!
I went and looked up “Dark Triad” after that comment it seems to hold water. This is more than a little sicko.
I am just wandering among the smoking wreckage….. as we all are. We were born into the current situation, we did not choose it. But yes, it is broken. And more and more by the day….
But the times, they are a changing. The winds of change are already underway. Be strong. Right and wrong are not idealistic concepts, they are absolutes. Most will not see. Those who do, they will have good lives.
Or those who see these and stand by those absolutes may in fact pay, but their standing firm is what makes right and wrong matter. And it DOES matter. Even if that is inconvienent.
I am but a blip on the screen of eternity. If that blip contributes positively, even if it does not pay out in my own lifetime or for me personally, I am content. It’s bigger than me, or you, or them. It’s much, much bigger than the here and now.
It’s an eternal struggle. May the force be with you.
I could cite numerous examples of such individuals who personally paid for standing by absolutes. Many, the most famous names of history. Nobel. It matters. You are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. There are but two sides….
Or those who see these and stand by those absolutes may in fact pay, but their standing firm is what makes right and wrong matter.
This is completely true. Well said.
RPG,
I would like to believe. It’s just that I have seen too many instances of the wrong thing being rewarded.
RPG,
It’s very qwiet here. Is everyone out hunting wabbits?
Happy Mother’s Day!
Did Madeline Kahn tease the monster?
“I have found that more often than not, if I had to talk myself in to doing or not doing something, that it was not the right choice in the long run.
It may be hard to start do the right thing, but it is always easiest in the long run.” However, there have been instances where making the right choice has bit me in the ass. Or more accurately, some others retaliated against me for doing the right thing, when I confronted and outed their misconduct.
Well said and spot on.
Question. Do you mean the male’s physical attractiveness, or his attractiveness as a potential provider in one form or another?
Not only would the woman feel rejected, she would probably give him a hard “next”. Men seem to accept being rejected a few times by a woman, where women seem to not get past being rejected as readily.
I could post my view of male vs female opportunities for having sex, but it’s a bit crude so I’ll pass for now.
What I do think needs to be said, is that extended make out sessions as you describe, should always be prefaced with how far you are willing to go. Or at least how far you think you are willing to go at the start. Not doing so will make most guys think the girl is a cock-tease, even if that’s not what she means to do.
Depends on the girl, don’t you think?