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abuse, battle of the sexes, break ups, commitment, dating, divorce, emotional abuse, gender, love, male emotions, malemental health, men, men and depression, men and emotions, physical abuse, red pill, relationships, verbal abuse
Before I started following the manosphere, I pretty much believed the main stream media’s portrayal of male emotions — meaning namely that men have fewer emotions than women.
Turns out, it’s not true. Men actually feel emotions very deeply, perhaps even more deeply than women. But how those emotions are processed and expressed is different, so on the surface this can give the appearance that men do not have the emotional depth or breath that women do. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Women tend to express emotions outwardly, talking freely to friends, family, and others about their emotions. Men tend to express their emotions inwardly, presenting a stoic face to the world even when inside they may be feeling anything but.
According to the “Mental Health” chapter of a book I have been reading, “Is He Worth It: How to Spot the Hidden Traits of a Good Man” by Shawn T. Smith, PhD, statistics show that more women than men are diagnosed with and on treatments for mental health issues such as anxiety or depression. This on the surface seems to suggest that women have more mental health issues than men.
But the author goes on to explain when one looks at the bigger picture, men are more likely to engage in substance abuse (alcohol, food, gambling, drugs, etc.) and are a full four times more likely than women to commit suicide. When these factors are taken into account, women and men struggle with these issues at about the same overall percentages, he says.
The difference? Women are more likely to reach out to their doctor or to a mental health specialist for medication and/or therapy when they are feeling anxiety or depression than a man, while men are more likely to self medicate and/or (tragically) commit suicide as a way to cope with their depression or anxiety.
It’s unclear if this is due to a gender difference, a social acceptance difference, or a combination of factors. In general women reach out to others for support, mainly other women. Men often only reach out to their own partner for emotional support, and less frequently to other men or family members.
It’s important for women to understand these differences because many times what seems like relationship problems, a man who is grouchy, sullen, and non-responsive, and/or engaging in substance abuse despite thing seemingly going relatively OK, can often be the result of his feeling anxiety, depression, hurt, or fear in other areas in his life, such as at work, and those emotions are then translated into emotions such as anger or moodiness.
Too often women respond to the expressions of anger and moodiness by internalizing them, thinking it is about the relationship, when in fact it may be completely unrelated. I have personally experienced this, and have seen it in other couples. I have even seen this misunderstanding between male and female emotions lead to unnecessary divorce.
Instead, a woman can and should step back, not take such expressions personally, but consider if in fact they may be signs her man is struggling with anxiety, depression, fear, or hurt in some area of his life. In this case, instead of engaging in conflict with him, taking a patient and empathetic approach combined with and some probing and problem solving may be a far more productive/constructive.
In other words, be a helpmate. Be on his team, rather than adding to his stress. You may be able to help. Or what may be needed is time for him to work it out with your support.
Maybe he needs to consider changing jobs? Maybe he is under too much financial pressure? Maybe he is under too much physical or psychological pressure? Maybe he needs to identify the cause and make some positive life changes that will lead to a resolution of the cause of his struggles?
I hate to admit this but it is true, when I was young and newly married, I almost entirely only considered my own experience, as many women do. What a mistake. I wish I had known this information earlier in life, so I could have been a help to my then husband in his struggle with his feelings about being in a dead-end, no-win, taken for granted job despite his being an excellent worker as well as understood better how his ex girlfriend cutting off contact between him and the child they had as teens were the cause of his drinking and detachment. Instead, like many women do, I was clueless he was even feeling those emotions and just assumed his moody, grumpy, sullen attitude was because he was unhappy with me.
Unfortunately this profound misunderstanding was a big cause of our marriage falling apart, because rather than realize he had for over 10 years been struggling internally with some very powerful emotions, I just assumed when no matter what I did things did not improve, that he just didn’t care to work on “our” problems.
Shortly after our divorce the company he worked for sold to another and he is now one of the most valuable members on their team. So much so the owner has taken him under his wing and is grooming him to be his successor. He’s finally being recognized as the true, loyal, hardworking employee he has always been. He’s also quit drinking, and has been clean and sober for many years. He reunited with his now grown son, and they have a relationship that brings them both great joy. He’s also remarried now, and he seems to be happily so.
I often ask myself “what if?” What if I had understood? What if I had reacted differently? What if I had waited just a little bit longer? But the truth is, I will never know. I can’t go back in time and undo what has been done. All I can do is acknowledge it, learn from it, and do different going forward. And I also hope my sharing this can perhaps help other women (and men) avoid the same outcome.
In short, men do have very deep emotions. When they are grouchy, sullen, angry, or withdrawn it’s often because he’s struggling with those emotions internally. Rather than add to his struggle, do your best to lighten it and to be a point of joy and refuge in his life. Men need their woman to be that.
Perhaps the men here would like to share… is this so, or if not, please share how so in the comments.
The more I learn, the more I see that men and women do not have to be enemies. In fact, I believe that together, as true partners, life is easier for both. It’s too bad society promotes a battle-of-the-sexes approach to remlationships, rather than a collaborative one. Luckily couples in the know can choose to be a team, rather than to be on opposite teams.
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(Please note: I am NOT recommending women silently endure abusive behavior from her man in hopes that things will improve. The above is referring to normal levels of anger, sullen, grouchy male behavior, not ongoing physical, emotional, or verbal abuse. Likewise, men should not endure abusive behavior from women “because of emotions” either.)
“It would have made me a shitty friend to not help him, imo, so that was part of my decision making process.”
YES! And one’s self concept goes in to this equation too…how would you feel about yourself and so forth. But that’s a measure of your character, it’s what makes you a good person, Tarn. 🙂
Okay, need to take an internet break. Have a great weekend!
One more thing (because, internet, it’s so hard quitin’ you…)
Thought I’d add, one of the first conversations Mike and i ever had was on exactly this subject.
He was the first person I’d ever met who saw things exactly as I do. This is years before I’d ever read Ayn Rand. It didn’t bother me that he didn’t believe everyone is motivated by self interest.
It actually was pretty gratifying to meet someone who thought the same way as I did.
It didn’t bother me that he believed everyone is motivated by self interest, meant to say.
@ Liz good to see you and yes that is very interesting indeed, I would agree!
I wish that I could help you with your laptop. It’s gotten too quiet here.
Me too fuzzie, maybe I will just re type it on my other one. So weird… 🙂
What about hooking the laptop up via ethernet cable?
@fuzzie I think perhaps fate is causing the delay in that post… But I have also been working dawn to dusk outside. High season approaches…
Bloom,
Make hay while the sun shines. May thi be your best year yet!
When women show their feelings, it is called “being emotional” by men. When men do it, it is called “drama” by women. You girls say you want a sensitive man, but that’s not really the truth. You want someone who will listen patiently to all of your issues, but don’t really want him to share the same way.
Hi Moi. Nice to see a new person. 🙂
You girls say you want a sensitive man, but that’s not really the truth.
The majority of women, including some who comment here, do prefer their man to be the “captain” and them to be the “first mate”. Others simply want their men to be stoic in the face of the woman’s emotions, or a source of stability to contrast her subconscious (?) shit tests and mood swings. As Ton would probably say, it’s asinine to complain that water is wet. Enough female commenters in the manosphere have all out admitted to being this way that I think NAWALT, but EWALT.
However, it may just be a case of personality types rather than male vs female. Since you’re new, I’ll use my example: my SO is a ENFP male, and I’m a INTJ female. He’s extroverted, loves the spotlight, is highly charismatic, extremely talkative, repetitive, and outwardly emotional. I’m the exact opposite. But because we love and care about each other, it works out well. Yin yang, bitches.
I don’t know that it really is about MBTI types, but that men are “trained” or “expected” to only exhibit certain types of emotions. Being angry or happy about something is deemed normal (to an extent), but being sad or showing it about certain things is seen as weakness, and often ridiculed by other men and by women. More to the point, men can never cry in front of a woman without her giving him a “hard next”, unless they are already in a relationship of some sort. Even then they run the risk of her looking for the next branch to swing to. But switch roles and the results are much different.
This is true for many, yes. And I find it incredibly sad despite this truth.
Strangely, in my family, all my siblings and I were taught that crying is weakness in almost every situation. My brothers turned out like most guys. My sisters yell and slam doors rather than cry. I go quiet and “shut down”, for lack of a better turn. Seamus is the *only* person I can cry around and not think that a knife is headed for my back, rare though it may be. Likewise, I do not think poorly of him when he cries or vents.
Humans are not robots. We have both a logical brain and emotional brain. Neglect of one side creates an unbalance state and can lead to mental stress.
I made myself into a half liar with my last comment. I am a sympathetic cryer. If I see someone crying (a character in a movie, for example), I will have tears pouring down my face as well, even though I am not experiencing any negative emotions and can still carry on cooking, or talking, or whatever else I was previously doing. But I don’t count that as weakness-crying, since they’re not really *my* tears, and I don’t care if people see them.
Tarn – that is so interesting. I grew up unable to cry. It wasn’t till i was married to my first husband that i was able to cry about/over anything.
now i can and do cry easily.
I still can’t let myself do that, but it’s gotten much better. Being told that crying for a legit reason doesn’t make you weak or stupid…It’s pretty therapeutic, isn’t it? Hence why telling males to remain emotionless is so hurtful to them. Nobody should cry at the drop of a hat, but neither should any of us need to be outwardly cold when there is just cause for emotional release.
Re: sympathy crying
It’s hella weird. I’ll have tears running down like I should be distraught and sobbing my heart out, but I’m not feeling anything abnormal. It’s as though I’m crying for the other person. Odd, to say the least.
I think that it’s not that men can’t make themselves vulnerable to their SO, but that they don’t feel like they can always trust them enough to do so.
And it’s not always because of betrayal due to adultery, or other really significant issues. Sometimes it is because of an extended history of not being supported in relatively minor things.
Ladies, every time you go behind your husbands back and do something for the kids that YOU BOTH agreed you wouldn’t do, you are pushing your SO away and damaging your relationship.
@RPG: I’ve read through this post a few times, and the one thing I don’t see, is if you asked your ex what was really going on with him.
I know that mine would try to do things, but they were never what I wanted/needed at the time. I know she was trying, but her efforts were based on her perception of what was going on and what would help. When I tried to explain all I got was anger that I didn’t appreciate her efforts, even though she couldn’t see that all she was doing was making things worse.
We don’t see things as they are, we see things as “we are”.
Guessing what someone else wants/needs may or may not be spot on. Sometimes just asking, can be a lot more effective than actually doing anything.
Tarn – i got an email saying you ‘liked’ my comment … i’m not able to ‘like’ comments here … am i doing something wrong? 😦
Ame,
When you click on a post and make a general comment, it simply registers as a regular comment. If you go to your email notification and actually hit the reply button (like what I’m doing with this particular comment), it shows up in-thread but also as a direct reply if the person has a WordPress app. Since I don’t own a computer/laptop, everything I read and write goes through my WordPress app, and gives me the option to “like” direct replies…even if “likes” aren’t normally offered on the blog itself.
The app is free, and doesn’t require much space or updating. If you’ve got a smartphone, I recommend it.
Tarn – ahhh, that makes sense. i do have a smartphone, but a simply one … and really only use it for phone stuff 🙂
I didn’t know that either! Don’t have a wordpress app 🙂