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attraction, bad boys, battle of the sexes, blue pill, break up, break ups, career woman, casual sex, commitment, dating, divorce, feminism, love, marriage, red pill, relationships, remarriage, romance, single independant woman
For as long as I can remember, nearly everyone in a position of authority has advised me and other women of my generation and those who followed to craft a life as a “strong independent woman” or SIW rather than to follow a traditional path of marriage young and for life.
In theory, being a SIW frees a woman from the oppression and control of a life dependent upon a man. With her own education, career, money, and independent nature she can conquer the world on her own terms, thank you very much! Such a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle, it was once said.
I know a women who is now in her early 60s who has followed the SIW path, an early adopter of sorts, and her story in many ways exemplifies the life cycle of a SIW.
In her youth she did marry to a charismatic “bad boy” and had two sons, only to find out a few years into the marriage that bad boys don’t change and when he tired of her, off he went leaving her alone to raise their two children. Back in those days mandatory child support and other things were not in place, so she was truly on her own.
She’s highly talented and so she channelled her energy into becoming one of the top interior designers in our area. She is yet quite a looker, so I can only imagine her in her youth. Doors opened thanks to her charming smile and crafty ways. She was on top of the world, at one point not getting out of bed for less than $10,000 a day in her early 40s. Life was easy. The richest people in the area courted her skills.
Then for reasons she has never fully explained, she decided to move to a South American country on a whim, thinking she could just take her talents and abilities along, recreating her highly successful career wherever she went.
For ten years she held onto that dream (and/or perhaps another bad boy relationship she’s never admitted to) that never materialized. In fact it only went from bad to worse as the years marched on. I followed her tales of struggle on Facebook, and even sent her money a few times when she was so desperately poor she didn’t even have food to eat.
She’s never outright said so, but she’s hinted heavily that she even turned to prostitution as a means of survival during those days. But what she didn’t realize was that even though her looks had always opened doors for her with men, other stars were rising as hers faded, and her ability to get men to do whatever she wanted whenever she needed was fading with it.
Two years ago, when she neared her 60th birthday she finally had to give up and moved back to the United States. She lives with her adult son and struggles to find even the minimum of work in the field she used to own outright. In her absence, other designers moved in, and now they are the talk of the town while those who used to vie for her attention barely remember her name. In addition, she does not have the ability (or desire) to work long hours like she once did.
Her options are limited, and she knows she exists only on the good graces of her son and his family. But it is precarious, as his own marriage is under duress and his wife resents having the additional dependent, even if she cooks, cleans, and watches the kids. Her sons are not that bonded to their mother either, resenting how she often put her own life before theirs during their childhood, partly out of economic necessity but also out of her self-absorbed need to be the best of the best, admired by all.
She realizes now what she did not in her youth — being a SIW might be a whirlwind prior to age 40 or so, but the plan falls apart as a woman enters her golden years. Thinking the party would never end and that she could always support herself, she didn’t bother to save for retirement or plan for the years when she will not be able to work.
Prior to age 40 or so, she had many wealthy men who wished to marry her, in addition to many admiring lovers, but she turned them away not wanting to be “tied down.” Today, her chances of finding a husband willing to make up for her complete lack of assets at this point is slim, and even if she could find such a man, she’s so used to being alone I am not sure she could even make the transition from SIW to wife at this point.
In many ways, hers is a modern day version of the famed courtesans of the belle epoch period in France. Committed to no man, but lover of many, they also found the party came to an abrupt end with age, and many of those who once ruled the social scene and were quite sought after, pampered, and spoiled by their admirers often ended up destitute, alone, and abandoned in the end.
So beware, ladies, the siren call of the SIW life. Nothing is free, and there is always a price to pay for coloring outside the lines. Far better to find a good man early in life, commit to him, raise children, build a life together, and live out your golden years safely surrounded by the stable family and life you and your partner have built. Women who do so end their lives as the venerated crown jewel of their family, the adored matriarch.
Perhaps it lacks to dramatic highs and lows of the SIW life cycle, but as my friend would be the first to admit, better than facing a precarious crash landing just when one needs stability the most.
Let those who have ears hear.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Even after being on the receiving end of of all this strong, independent woman stuff, I still feel sorry for her. It’s not over. My Dad’s last wife managed to remarry, in her eighties.
not only is the content powerful, but your writing is excellent 🙂
Awww, thanks Ame! I have worked as a professional writer and journalist for over 15 years, my “day job” on top of my agro tourism biz! So that helps (but apparently not with my typos! Lol)
I feel for her too, Fuzzie, and for the many women who have been led astray by the SIW narrative. I believe it’s the female version of the blue pill, and equally destructive to crafting a truly successful life as the blue pill has been for men.
Also @ Fuzzie, I too have seen women successfully remarry late in life, but they are usually of the marriage minded set rather than a retiring SIW. I hope she does meet someone, and that if she does, she loves and appreciates him with all she’s got!
p.s. she keeps asking me for the address to the blogs I follow, after I tell her about all the great guys around here! But I don’t share those links with people in my real life, both so I can speak freely here w/o fear of being outed and share my real life observations of red pill teachings w/o making those people upset. I am not sure how she would feel, reading her story like this! I tell her story not to embarrass, but to illustrate a bigger picture. It’s not about her personally, but about the narrative her tale exposes as false.
And the moral of the story is:
Every woman depends on a man in some way.
Every woman needs a man’s guidance.
Had this woman properly selected a man in her youth, with the help of her own dad and other men, she’d now be a respected, dignified matriarch instead of an involuntarily humbled and resented housekeeper for her son’s family. She wouldn’t submit to the men around her, though, and relied on her own understanding and her own leadership. She got greedy and stupid, though. She wanted more “fun”. She was working very hard as an interior designer, and felt she wasn’t having enough “fun”. Thus, her disastrous South American excursion, where she abandoned everyone in her family for a decade.
Women need the leadership and guidance of men. Women do not do well when left to their own devices. Women are more easily deceived and led astray. Women need men in their lives to put down boundaries and guardrails.
Your example is just now learning this at age 60. Hope she’s finally got it.
Indeed, Deti. Indeed….
I am not so sure she gets it, despite her unhappiness with the status quo. She’s held onto the SIW raft so long…she clings to it even as it sinks, hoping somehow it will return to its former buoyancy…rather than looking ahead 20 years and taking action to prevent that even more dire ending NOW.
I know why she wants to know web addresses. She want to talk to all the the great guys that you know. For what may be the first time in her life, she is seriously husband hunting. That she has little to call her own makes her even more mobile and spurs her on. this may work. The incentives for her are in line with what a potential husband may want.
One question. I s this the one who has an immigrant daughter in law who is spending all the money? That would add to her insecurity and boost her incentive.
she keeps asking me for the address to the blogs I follow
Perhaps you should mention to her blogs not.
Be like Yoda you can.
Your knowledge comes from who you are.
One and the same, Fuzzie!
She may want to meet all of you, but I am not so sure you guys would want to meet her! Unless you like sassy, spitfire types! If so, I would be happy to make introductions!
She’s actually a lovely person, but the time in S America and the loss of all she once had has changed her, there is a darkness now that was not there before. She’s had some very hard knocks. And as you say, her future is far from stable, even now.
Indeed, Yoda!
She’s also a total neat freak and a great cook! Unlike at least some SIW, she does have those qualities!
There are plenty of quality guys all around her; but
1. whole boring stable guys
2. she has nothing to offer
prevents her from seeing/realizing this. She does not need to be introduced to other great guys in the the inter-webs….
I would agree Go Figure, perhaps self examination she should pursue first?
Thinking the party would never end and that she could always support herself, she didn’t bother to save for retirement or plan for the years when she will not be able to work.
This fact showcases her naivete and stupidity.
It may sound harsh, but truth hurts.
She obviously forgot that the Independent part of being a SIW necessarily includes one’s finances. Making the type of money she did, it would have been exceptionally easy to put even 5% of every paycheck into a temporarily untouchable savings account, start an IRA, etc. That she didn’t just proves that she is the type of woman Deti speaks of at 6:55.
I wish her luck, nonetheless.
Indeed Tarn, many women seem to overlook that “independent” part of the SIW narrative — looking to govt. or a man at the nth hour to save them instead.
Precisely, Bloom.
Here’s the “secret” to being a real SIW:
Live like a single man would.
Do not ever look for handouts.
Expect/offer to work long hours.
Be frugal rather than frivolous.
Know that you will have to climb your own ladders and open your own doors.
Be a responsible adult.
That’s all there is to it.
Every day I feel so thankful that we, as women, have the freedom to choose our path in life. We can become what we set our minds to, and I encourage all women (and men) to do just that. Some will be natural born leaders in society, and some will be great wives and mothers. We get all kinds of conflicting messages as we grow from girls to women. I know I’ve heard the message about being a SIW, but I also have family and old friends that firmly begs the question, “Hey! When you gonna get married? When you gonna have kids?” as if that’s all there is to life at my age. It’s our responsibility to reach within ourselves to find our destiny, instead of just relying on outside forces to tell us what to do.
Tarnished says it so well: “Here’s the “secret” to being a real SIW:
Live like a single man would.
Do not ever look for handouts.
Expect/offer to work long hours.
Be frugal rather than frivolous.
Know that you will have to climb your own ladders and open your own doors.
Be a responsible adult.”
It sounds like this woman’s downfall really started when she made the crazy and foolish decision to move to South America.
Had she lived like Tarnished suggests, she would be in a far better place today.
With that said, it usually is better to be paired up early with a faithful partner, and this would be the case whether you are a man or a woman. Those who prefer to go it alone should follow the path that Tarnished describes.
Bloom –
“p.s. she keeps asking me for the address to the blogs I follow, after I tell her about all the great guys around here! But I don’t share those links with people in my real life, both so I can speak freely here w/o fear of being outed and share my real life observations of red pill teachings w/o making those people upset. I am not sure how she would feel, reading her story like this! I tell her story not to embarrass, but to illustrate a bigger picture. It’s not about her personally, but about the narrative her tale exposes as false.”
i keep my two worlds separate, too. there are some who know me in both, but they’re a select few and honor my privacy 🙂
There is nothing wrong with being a SIW, just plan accordingly for the time after 40 when looks NOT EFFORT cease to give you a free ride. Change genders and its called?…think think?…MGTOW?
Right! Men have been leading productive, independent, interesting lives FOR MILLENIA. The difference is we see more than a week down the road, see reality and have both best and worst case contingencies.
SIW are great. We ignore us, we ignore them.
Bicycles need movement and the open road, not stinky old fish.
Just enjoy your job, contribute to your 401k, plan for a quiet retirement in assisted living and do your own thing. You go girl! You don’t need no Man bailing you out!
(and post fertility\wall why would we anyway)
p.s. In your youth you bathed in male tears. If we were as mean in our middle age we could swim laps in the olympic pool of your tears when you realize what you have done and you have to work for another twenty odd years.
Just for the sake of arguement, as Tarn said. Lets take feminism at its word. SIWs.
Why do you even think about men, care if wee look at you, ask for abailout, have men ANYWHERE in your game plan.
We bicycles were not needed so ladies Go Your Own Way! We did.
And guess what, its incredibly liberating.
Wait what? Sorry didn’t hear that? Now, figure out how to say it without bring a hypocrite. Oh you do need us. Sorry, too late, we got tired of waiting and masde other plans
thedetisaid:May 26, 2016 at 6:55 pm
“And the moral of the story is:
Every woman depends on a man in some way.
Every woman needs a man’s guidance.
Had this woman properly selected a man in her youth, with the help of her own dad and other men”
——-
i agree. my dad was very abusive and just a bad man. there was a scene about two months before my first marriage with my fiance – who would become my first husband – and my parents. the three of them had it out then pulled me in and made me choose between the abusive parents and the fiance who was acting like a stupid ass. well, i sure as heck wasn’t going back to the abusive parents (who were beyond delighted to get rid of me as it was), so i chose the stupid ass fiance.
i’ve wondered … if my dad had been even half a real man … hadn’t used me for all sorts of sordid things. if i respected him even a little bit. AND … if my mom respected him and submitted to him (in their relationship they were both equally bad, so the latter would not have helped the former) would i have chosen my parents? my parents saw stuff in my fiance, but it was more like a mirror than a window.
my mother told me many years later that both my sisters and i all three married men like our dad … she said it with an, “Oh, well, sucks for you,” attitude and voice. and i wanted to scream at her, “Where the hell were you?!”
my oldest was a baby then … and i’ve since told my girls many times … they can make any choice they want, but they will know what they are choosing. i will not hold back the truth. they’re both scared of marrying someone like their dad. i’ve told them i will definitely tell them the truth. i can’t make them marry or not marry, but they will definitely know the truth.
Tarn –
“Precisely, Bloom.
Here’s the “secret” to being a real SIW:
Live like a single man would.
Do not ever look for handouts.
Expect/offer to work long hours.
Be frugal rather than frivolous.
Know that you will have to climb your own ladders and open your own doors.
Be a responsible adult.
That’s all there is to it.”
—
truth.
During the year from hell both Mrs and I looked into the Abyss of what if. Needless I would have fared better. We both set firm expectations of what a husband and weife do empty nest. we both (mostly me) set out deal breakers and the old take for granted ideas that led us there. So we stepped back.
Interestingly her circle of friends ditched her saying it was too much drama but only After we announced we were staying together. Our theory: jealousy that she pulled it out of the crash, that she turned her back on the sisterhood and embraced feminimity and grace.
To witt I spent three days putting up a new decorative fence. She came out to watch and help. At one point she didnt like the trim I had in mind but made a “suggestion” rather than a I want. Had many offers of did i want a drink etc. First time in thirty years a home reno without someone yelling and storming off. Because I manned up and she ladied up.
Morale of the story. She had a choice. Be SIW (capital I) or be a wife.
She chose (wisely) and still acts accordingly as do I.
SIW is a choice. If you make it take the responsibility for your INDEPENDENCE that comes with it.f
Life is choices.
Get up or not
Breathe or not
Be Independent or want companionship
Be strong or ask for help
Nothing is good or evil
but everything has reprocussions
I am not you nor are you, me
I cannot choose for you
Only You can choose for You
But choose wisely
for something will happen.
Anyone else notice it is a year to the day since the life after frivorce article referenced.
Interesting both paths lead to the same lonely, destitute, late 50s life of unforseen (but obvious) consequences.
Agree with all your comments, Horseman.
Some additions.
Actions have consequences.
Freedom and the open road is good for a few, but a poor choice for many.
Long days, effort, and sacrifice are not glamorous but they do lead to contentment for some.
Live in the moment, but plan for the future.
Be kind whenever possible.
Cherish those who are close to you, and seek make their lives easier as they do for you.
Recognize that independence does not entail relying on ones government, credit cards, loans, or the charity of others. It is something an individual puts time into creating…It can never be given.
Tarn –
love 🙂
Thank you, Ame. 🙂
Interestingly Horseman, I have not seen nor heard from the frivorce article since… But yes, different paths to the same tragic result. I swear feminism is the blue pill flip for women… It doesn’t work, pretty little lies of a different sort…
RPG,
She can’t be sassy. She be like Horseman’s wife.
“It sounds like this woman’s downfall really started when she made the crazy and foolish decision to move to South America.
Had she lived like Tarnished suggests, she would be in a far better place today.”
I agree. Strange story, really. The woman self sabatoged gianormously. I don’t think, with that (previous) mindset, she would have made a responsible wife either. If she was foolish enough to make these kinds of choice, she probably would have bankrupted a spouse.
Read an article not long ago about an elderly woman who was a librarian her whole life, at some University. When she died they found out she had a great deal of money saved (it all went to the university…over a million). She’s never made a large wage (far far less than 10k a day), but she lived intelligently and frugally. I’m sure that’s the way I would live, if I were a spinster, too. You don’t need a lot of 10k days to put some away.
I did manage to save 13,000 dollars from jobs I had before college (and about a year or so working while in college). It would be more if I hadn’t spent many months convalescing in a wheelchair/crutches. That’s what I had in my bank account when Mike and I met. And I lived off of less than 500 dollars a month (including rent, utilities, everything except tuition). I never made over minimum wage at that time.
there is no such thing as a strong independent woman.
Agreed, Liz. She certainly knows how to spend money, but not so much how to manage or save it.
She’s recently been helping me spruce things up at my biz and while she has great ideas, they are larger than life! I have to take what I can from her ideas then do a smaller scale realistic version! For example, she wanted the new garden space to be a world class garden people would come from all over the world to see. I said, “How about some grass, trees, shrubs, and bark dust for now?” A world class garden??? Who’s going to take care of THAT? Me? Lol! I have enough to do…
Champagne and caviar dreams, beer and hot dog budget?
I never thought that I would say this but, she needs a beta bucks husband pronto, as in yesterday. She also needs to develop a taste for beer and hot dogs. Hint: Grey Poupon helps.She has reached the point in her life where women derive the full benefit of hard monogamy. You also need to remind her that she has a lot of competition and the enviornment is not target rich.
When my Dad lost my Mom, he was in his late fifties. The refrigerator was full of casseroles from wannabe second wives.
Agreed Fuzzie. And maybe she and I are just different. I would rather have a set of beautiful hobnail milk glass lamps from a dusty thrift shop for $4 each than something brand new from the most expensive store. Even if I had lots to spend, I am simply a frugal person. Instead of buying plants for my garden, I grow most from seed or start them from cuttings. Both because I enjoy it, and because it’s more satisfying to build and create something than buy it out of a box or be able to brag about the $$$ I spent. Keeping up w the Jonses is so not my thing, status symbols mean nothing to me. If anything, that commercialism repulses me. And I have found often those who look rich are maxed out in debt and those who drive the 10 year old car are. No matter how much or little one has, economizing and making the most of it makes sense to me. But I know not all feel that way.
Luckily this was already my nature when challenging financial times hit the past few years (an understatement). I can live on next to nothing, create abundance out of nothing but hard work and creative thinking. I never would have been able to make it otherwise. And w/o a penny of tax payer $ either. I am proud of that! 🙂
The SIW:
https://artisanaltoadshall.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/gen-3-16-exegesis/
SIW? That’s a ward who thinks she doesn’t need a guardian.
Road. Hell. Good intentions. Friendly Hamsters. You know the story.
RPG,
Is she the kind of decorator who wants you to toss it all and buy new? Not good, especially when there are heirloms.
I like thrift shops too. Rewiring lamps is good, simple work.
“She’s recently been helping me spruce things up at my biz and while she has great ideas, they are larger than life! I have to take what I can from her ideas then do a smaller scale realistic version!”
Beware Bloom. But I’m sure you already know that.
Those types of acquaintences have a way of talking you into a great deal of work (and their desires tend to be flighty, so they are likely to abandon you when this work they talked you in to becomes inconvenient for them).
@ Liz, indeed! For some reason she started to cause drama between her and my neighbor who has been helping, trying to get me into it as well. Not sure if she was trying to make him upset so things wouldn’t go ahead or what, but I asked her to stop talking to or texting him and then he, his two buddies, and I actually did the work. She seems to be self and other sabotaging, and as I always say, “Isn’t my life complicated enough?” Who needs that? I’ve got her at arms length now bc of all this. Interestingly in three weeks of very intense work, there was ZERO drama with the guys and myself! We had fun and got ‘er done! If she had been in the mix, I am sure that would not have been the case. Drama — who needs it?
Uh oh!
IMO Interior designers unless from an architect background are usually pampered princesses by money, birth or marriage who have grand ideas where money is no object and they cultivate clients by moving in the in crowd. They start by using “his” money to “furnish” her house.
I just bought 500k of furniture for our new 15 million hq. The “designer” was a junior architect who incorporated fixtures, textures, look into the architectural design.
IMO Interior designers unless from an architect background are usually pampered princesses by money, birth or marriage who have grand ideas where money is no object and they cultivate clients by moving in the in crowd. They start by using “his” money to “furnish” her house.
—–
thanks for the intell as I am in the process of hiring one.
Wow, Bloom… what a strange, sad story. I know an interior designer that did kind of the opposite of what your friend did. She and her husband are really interesting people… got married young, had 2 kids, and saved up a bunch of money. Now she’s a grandmother in her 50’s, and started her dream of interior design with a friend of hers (who also at least has adult children). Their business has become one of the most successful in our area of South Texas. It is quite amazing the creative beauty they pull off – looking at the pictures of the homes they decorate – it’s mind-blowing.
How strange that her life compared to the other woman’s are so different!! She’s getting the best of all kinds of worlds: doing her “dream job,” that she absolutely loves, married to her husband (and they actually have an incredible marriage), and getting to be a grandmother who dotes on her grandbabies!
I need to add her story into the last post I did where I interviewed her about making her dreams come true… https://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2016/05/20/8294/
@Ton
Winning strategy: Decorate with good-looking women.
A plain layout will focus the attention on the women and after that a nice smile and a bit of cleavage (especially if there’s something there to cleave) will go a long way. Everybody loves a woman who likes to say yes… except other women… but it’s the men who have money.
Don’t hire just one, hire at least two and get them to compete, that’s critical. If it’s just one of them they’ll sit there and enjoy the attention, but if it’s two of them and they’re competing to see who can get guys to spend the most money, watch how fast they stop wearing bras… just saying.
I used to know a guy who had a convenience store that was kind of off the beaten track. He started hiring girls that had won beauty contests and it became a destination. His sales went through the roof, good looking girls *wanted* to work there, and his wife felt so threatened she told him it was the store or her. He pointed at the door, she stayed and lost weight. Everything was fine until he got caught banging one of the girls and she divorce-raped the hell out of him. She got the store, fired the pretty girls and tried to run it herself and went bankrupt. I love stories with a happy ending.
And just to speak of their marriage… this woman and her husband taught a marriage class we did 8 years ago – and their happiness/love was such a great inspiration back then. She was going to night classes to get an official interior design degree during that time, so the unsaid message was – create a beautiful marriage first, be a good mom to your kids who’s there for them, then once they’re gone or older, do what you’ve been waiting to do.
It really worked out for her!
I was kind of hoping that our interior decorator was ready to settle down. I don’t think so. Once this SIW model is embraced, it must be tough to give up..
She’s not ready.
I am curious about why she went to South America.
LOL I am hiring one for my beach house
trying to enjoy the money I’ve been making vs enjoying making money
This may be the last word on this thread. It looks as if the life of a SIW does not end well. Feminists who promote this lifestyle would be well advised to consider it. As for ordinary women, it may be a good idea to spread the word rather than keep silent.
“As for ordinary women, it may be a good idea to spread the word rather than keep silent.”
we can, and do, spread the word. however, people will believe what they choose. not many are ‘teachable.’
there are some who hear the truth and immediately turn their ear towards it, and learn, and follow. but those are few. most take the bits and pieces the want and force them into their lives. like puzzle pieces from different puzzles, they’re just smashed together.
what’s so sad about this story is that even hitting bottom hasn’t changed her pov. she’s still clinging to what she thinks is true b/c, at one point in her life, it worked. she hasn’t learned she cannot duplicate that again.
sometimes i see ‘teaching’ as layers, nuggets of wisdom, that hopefully given over time will add up to something significant. then at that one, critical moment, whenever that may be all those nuggets of truth come together and make sense.
my late Mentor taught me so much in the few short years i knew her, but probably the most critical thing she taught was to remain teachable through my whole life. there were times i would say something, and she would light up and write it down! here i was in my 30’s with a woman in her 60’s, and *she* was still learning … and learning from *me*?! those were deeply profound moments for me, and i decided then that i wanted to be like that … that i wanted to remain teachable through my whole life … and that i do not want to limit who my ‘teacher(s)’ is/are by age or other such factors.
there are rare moments when i get to share deep and profound truth with someone on a large scale. but most of the time i’m just passing along small nuggets of truth and wisdom with the prayer that, when the time comes, it will click and make sense for that woman.
one of the joys i’ve had with my teenage girls is when i’ve asked them to read a book or article that explains something true and important. they will read it and look at me with that ‘duh’ look and say, “Mom, you’ve already taught me this. Why did you make me read it?” and i just want to jump and do a snoopy happy dance! yay! i got something right! squeee! 🙂
“LOL I am hiring one for my beach house”
Do the hell hounds like to swim? 🙂
One of the Hell Hounds loves boats
The other scares off the water
my sister recently spent time with my dad and his wife, and my mom. dad’s wife brilliantly instigated a rift, as bitchy, manipulative women are so adept and natural at doing.
in the end, what was said by my mom made me think of this, and her. she and my dad are equally guilty – they both abused each other and us, especially me. she broke free of him some 8-9 years ago with a mega boat load of change. i hear she’s run through it all. she was whining about how terrible my dad treated her (which he did – very passive-aggressively). she doesn’t see her part, though. (actually, my dad doesn’t see his part, either – they are both adept at blaming each other). but, he and his new wife (who truly is a manipulative bitch), have the hefty bank account (which she so skillfully let my mother know about), and my mom doesn’t.
i remember many, many years ago being in a meeting at a church where they were teaching about how to minister to shut-ins. the lady said something i’ve never forgotten. she said that when the elderly complain about no family visiting them, take it with a grain of salt. sometimes that elderly person is the reason their family is no longer around.
i don’t know how to handle this stuff with my mother … or even if i should. am i responsible for her? also many years ago i told my parents i would help them when they were older, to which my mother flat out replied that i would never be able to do what she wanted so my help would not be welcome.
as a christian … where does my responsibility lie? do i have any responsibility here? questions i’m pondering.
Ame,
I cannot answer as a Christian, but I can answer as a person with a similar situation, though mine only involves my biological father’s side + my stepfather himself.
where does my responsibility lie?
To keep yourself calm, sane, untroubled, drama-free, and far from those who have already proven quite capable of causing you pain without remorse.
Ame, I definitely don’t have as much experience as you, and don’t know what you’ve been through as I haven’t been through that myself… but maybe my experience will be at least of interest to you? Definitely feel free to disregard it if it doesn’t apply to your situation.
I know you read about my mom and her history with her parents being abusive. It was something that she has always had to live with even though she’s had closure and forgiveness, it’s still something that I think she may struggle with at times in her own personal spiritual growth. My grandma (her mom) passed away back in 2011, and it was extremely fast – a month’s time – but she had enough time to finally apologize to my mom on her death bed. So she got that closure there… but with my grandpa, he’s taking a long time to pass, and has gotten Alzheimer’s disease and she made the decision to put him in a nursing home.
I don’t think she ever really got any kind of closure from him, and it definitely affects the way she treats him now. She had him at first in a good really nice nursing home, but moved him almost a couple of years ago now to a cheaper one that I didn’t like for him. She really rarely sees him and even checks up on him, I have to go frequently to make sure he’s being taken care of and not abused and neglected – there have been times where I noticed something that showed they’d been neglectful and that he was actually suffering with an infection or illness and they never would have caught it.
It is very hard to understand without feeling anger at her, as to why she isn’t taking proper care of him checking on him, or visiting him, but I understand in a way – he’s never apologized really to her – so it’s like they never really repaired the relationship in a “real” way. My grandparents took care of me when I was an infant until I was 3, and all I ever knew of them was that they were wonderful – he was so incredible with me, I have only good memories of him. I’ve heard that once you abuse your children, your parent card is ripped up. But then I’ve also heard that grandparenting is a second chance at fixing your mistakes you made with your children. I know my dad is VERY different with my boys (so much more patient and fun and loving) than he was with my brother and I growing up. And my mom is better with them too, lol.
But seeing my mom when she does make the rare effort to take care of him and make sure he’s getting what he needs, I feel like it’s done for God, and it’s Him shining through her at that point. I do not think it would be right for her to just say, to hell with him and not take care of him. We do have a duty to take care of elderly relatives even if they were mean – but that is my opinion and convictions based on some of the verses in the Bible that say things along those lines (that that is what true religion looks like).
Tarn –
“To keep yourself calm, sane, untroubled, drama-free, and far from those who have already proven quite capable of causing you pain without remorse.”
wisdom right there. just the thought of being around either of my parents sends me into a panic attack. one lives in florida and the other in california, and i’m in texas. neither wants to live here, and i don’t see myself living in either of those places. to be honest, i think the oldest of my two sisters will end up taking care of our mom, and my youngest sister will end up taking care of our dad. and that’s more than fine with me. i am very content never seeing either one ever again.
Stephanie – i totally understand your mom. i know she’ll feel relief when he finally passes.
“I’ve heard that once you abuse your children, your parent card is ripped up.”
that’s an interesting way to put it.
“But then I’ve also heard that grandparenting is a second chance at fixing your mistakes you made with your children.”
well … my parents struck out both times there. my girls probably wouldn’t recognize them if they passed each other on the street.
I’m so sorry. I still don’t understand how people can not care about being grandparents! And that was probably really painful for you, too, in realizing that they just don’t want it enough or care. That’s one of the issues I have with my husband’s parents and siblings – feeling anger that they don’t care enough to get over their own issues and be normal family members. We reached out to them when I was pregnant with our last child, and they just never bothered to try to get back into our lives. A few weeks before I was due, I had to deal with some intense anger at realizing how much they just didn’t care. They don’t care enough about being grandparents to our children to make amends with him for his childhood and then they way they treated me when we were married for 5 years (we stayed around them for that long until we finally just had enough of them 😦 ). We want them back in our lives for our kids’ being able to have a relationship with them, but then we wonder at what cost would it be?
the cost is sky high and never enough.
my girls don’t have any grandparents who care. they have no idea what a loving grandparent looks like. all they know is mean and abusive and selfish.
A beach house? Party at Ton’s new pad!
May, I briefly enter what I take to be a predominantly female space – and merely to observe that the SIW has long struck me as the modern version of a Courtesan (your reference above). As I understand the position, Courtesan’s fell into one of two types, the sexual desirable and the LardArse, that is to say the promiscuous and the less attractive but hard working.
I have no remedy for the fate of the childless and unloved corporate woman if for no other reason than Wedlock and Motherdom themselves seems to produce little happiness either, but – as a single man – I do sometimes cry internally for the waste that seems to emanate through the life of the corporate woman, at least I as a mere male feel the desire to tame such a female much as one might seek to tame a wild horse. Better for both horse and owner in the end, but what is one to do.
I wish you well.
It hurts to read this post. It reminds me so much of one certain person, and where her life has been and seems to be headed. She had the chance of something much more stable, but threw it away. And not just once or twice.
I wish she could see where she’s headed.
And I wish I could help change it…
BTDT with my parents. Opened the door, but they never really walked through it. Give them an opportunity, but forcing miserable people in to your kids lives, will only cause more misery for everyone.
“and even more so ended their careers by getting married”. I think that the red pill has some good advice, but sometimes it takes it a step too far. To go as much as to suggest that women of a certain age and women with a certain notch count cannot find marriage or a ltr. From what I have observed in the real world this is complete nonsense. My grandmother in the 1950s had married 3 times by 3 different men and had 3 daughters, one by each man. She married my grandfather, who was 10 years younger and they had my mother together. They stayed together until death. I know dozens of examples just like this one. It’s not an ideal situation imo, I would rather be with the same man from a young age and so would most people, but it doesn’t always work out that way, and the red pill shouldn’t be offering women such discouragement when they end up single post wall when real life example time and time again proves that they have every possibility of remarrying or landing a ltr again.