Tags
attraction, bad boys, commitment, dating, hookups, love, marriage, red pill, relationships
I recently met another SIW, this one in her mid-40s. Yesterday she shared her story with me, an all too typical one. She was engaged at 22, but her mother advised her to break it off, “not marry until you are at least 30.” So she did that, went to college, built a high flying career at a well known tech start up you likely use everyday, was paid very well and got some gravy train stock options to boot, bought her own place, travelled the world, and told herself, “I can do it myself! I don’t need a man!”
Except about a year ago she started to have major regrets. She started to have panic attacks just thinking about her job, and decided to quit that and spend a year “finding herself.” She’s luckily in the financial position to do so, and yet a year later she’s still aimless and wondering what direction her life will take now.
She’s slim, active, attractive. She’s got lots of cool interests and hobbies. I don’t know her well enough to know how much she’s dated, or how long her relationships have lasted but she doesn’t speak of anyone in the recent past.
I wonder if like I once did, she goes on dates and talks about her career and her travel and her education rather than what the guys in the manosphere clued me into what men really want to hear — about how she loves kids, is a great cook, and all the other feminine/wifely qualities she has to offer? Because of course, women are taught those things don’t matter to men, when clearly from men themselves, they do. And that when she talks about her career, travel, and accomplishments, what he hears is, “I am not ready/wanting to settle down.”
She’s got two canine “fur babies” but admits she’d much rather have a husband and real babies. But what her mom didn’t tell her at the time was she would miss the maximum MMV (marriage market value) window. By the time she was ready to marry, no prince charming was to be found. The commitment minded guys were long ago taken. And the men her age who were single either have long since given up on gals and gone MTGOW or have been through the divorce wringer already and aren’t willing to go down that path again.
At 46, the likelihood of a successful pregnancy is slim and despite ernestly looking (she says, although I wonder if she’s looking in the right places and at the great guys so often overlooked in favor of the flashier PUAs) she has yet to meet a long-term mate. She seems to suffer from the common fallacy that the guys she could date short term (her SMV or sexual market value) were the same she could expect to marry. So like many women who have followed her path, she finds the guys who likely would be interested in marriage too “boring.”
I wonder if someone had told her that she was choosing a fork in the road back then, if she would have taken the same path? I wonder if her mom realizes how the advice she gave her daughter long ago was going to lead to no grandchildren and a possible spinster daughter? I wonder if her mom would give her the same advice then, knowing where it has led now?
I am not saying she has not had a quality life or that she has not accomplished anything. Clearly she has. She’s smart, funny, and a really neat person. And like most women of my generation, she was following the supposed “best path” for a woman. But like many women find at about her age, you can’t grow old with a career. Your job probably won’t be as satisfying as a family who loves and cares for you. If family is truly the path a woman desires, she is best to seek it early in life, not wait until the window of opportunity is rapidly closing, like the fabled grasshopper. In ten years she’ll likely find the tech job market has moved on without her, and that what came easily in youth may not later in life. And that those who told her, “you can have it all, you go gurrrrrl, there will always be time for that later!” were actually selling her an experimental, unproven product.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow, realizing that one can’t have it all on demand. And that there might not be any going back. But one may not want to go forward, either. I hope she finds her way, despite the odds. I really do.
Let those who have ears hear.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
I love these stories. They just validate all of the choices I’m making now, not that I need much validation. I really enjoy your blog.
Thanks Belle! I am glad you enjoy it too! Sorry for the irregular schedule, like this post I tend to write as such experiences emerge and can help illustrate red pill ideas in a way women can understand and learn from. That and I have been busier than even a handful of people together should be, lately! Lol. Making hay while the sun shines, etc.
So she did that, went to college, built a high flying career at a well known tech start up, was paid very well and got some gravy train stock options to boot, bought her own place, travelled the world, and told herself, “I can do it myself! I don’t need a man!”
While it is true that a woman does not need a man to have a happy, accomplished life, I hear they are a necessity if one wants a husband. And of course, it is always much better for children to have two parents.
Honestly, it is as though these women do not take any time to consider the consequences of their actions. It’s very simple, however…
If one wants to be a wife and mother, start early. Begin looking for a husband in your early 20s, be wed preferably before age 26 with a husband roughly the same age. Have kids within the first 2 years of the marriage, after you’re in a good place financially. Be a supportive, pleasant, loving, and knowledgeable spouse and expect the same in return (albeit in a complementary way).
This way, you’ll have a happy, healthy family yet still be young enough once they are in high school to do other things with your life, like start a business, travel, etc.
If this doesn’t appeal to you, then do as I’ve done and actually decide (not consider, not hem and haw, not think “hmmm, maybe”) you are going to live the same as a bachelor male. Oh, and never expect any handouts or lament 20 years later that “all the good men are gone”.
sadly … there is still a lot of this advice being given by parents … graduate from college, get a good job, then think about marrying. do not even think about getting married before or during any of the above. imo it’s all very toxic.
“I hear they are a necessity if one wants a husband” Truer words have never been spoken!
True Ame, I consider this the female version of the blue pill — the pretty little lies women are told that turn out to be exactly that – falsehoods. And often at great cost to themselves and others.
Indeed Tarn, it’s good to live in the moment but also to ponder thoughtfully and often where one is headed!
Thanks, Bloom. 🙂
Yup. One’s future should never be left to chance. Plan, plan, plan…as much as possible!
Thing is, also, that I can clearly see she herself still doesn’t realize what’s gone wrong and why. I will try to break this to her in small doses, if she seems interested. The red pill awakening can be quite the shock!
RPG,
She has handicapped herself. To begin with, she’ll want someone from her social circle, as in another high flyer of about the same age. If they haven’t been through the mill themselves, they have seen enough of their collegues go through it. Also, they will have assets to protect.
If she believes that what she can pull for a date is what she can pull for a mate, she is in for a rude shock.
Another thing to warn her about. Men will presume the worst about her sexual past because she has had all this free time and women are very good at camoflage.
Tran,
Oh, and never expect any handouts or lament 20 years later that “all the good men are gone”.
Sooooo true.
I do not know why it is so hard for people to ‘own your own crap’.
Everyone please ignore my spelling of her name. My typing skills suck sometimes.
It is never to late to find a mate, as distinct from a father-for-kids.
Be pleasant (company),
be willing (in the bedroom),
be healthy (and that means weight, dear).
An insider tip for your friend if she is looking for “that spark” –
strong men can switch off attraction,
and often do so with someone they may be interested in
until she proves worth-the-trouble.
It comes across as Old World Courtesy
Usually misspell Tarn’s name I do not,
but when I do,
spell it as “Yarn” I do
Saracen and all, good advice! I am going to be seeing her again soon so perhaps we’ll get a chance to talk in more depth. Good suggestions! I will pass them along if/when the opportunity presents… I don’t get the sense she’s been a tart, probably more a workaholic type than anything.
True, Yoda!
GoFigure,
“Tran” is…oddly fitting. Lol.
I do not know why it is so hard for people to ‘own your own crap’.
Because being an adult that accepts full responsibility for the negative consequences as well as the positive outcomes of their decisions/actions doesn’t make them haaaapy. That’s why.
By the way, new game on the horizon to keep an eye out for: Mystic Vale. I think you’d like it, since we have similar tastes in boardgames, and I really enjoyed it.
RPG,
You are in the big leagues now. I found you listed on Hawaiian Libertarian’s aggregator. Congratulations!
Owning ones crap, self introspection, delayed gratification, and such are unfortunately not qualities so in fashion these days. But they work just as well now as they once dod. If women want equality and independance, they can’t simultaneously demand an escape hatch and endless optionality at their whim. Men have never had the option of looking to others to save them as adults. Despite the “men have it all” mantra. With self determination comes responsibility…
@ fuzzie, I am honored! I didn’t realize… May those who seek another way find answers here, as I myself found thanks to those before who explained all this to me (and I am still understanding it yet!) 🙂 thanks HI!
Saracen’s advice is sound but there is a caveat. At the end of this, she is going to have a roommate. A gal that I dated and kept contact with insisted her new husband move into her house and use the hallway bathroom while she had the master bath.
My last stepmom was the dame way.
Excuse me. Same way.
@ fuzzie, not that it is right but even my handyman’s parents, happily married 50-some years have a “boys bath” and a “girls one.” But I get what you are saying, too. One would think sharing should be the norm.
No one ever talks about, not the magazines, dating sites, purple pill o sphere etc.
What happens to the 45+ single women who have thirty to forty years of life expectancy. They become invisible. Non sellable, not news fodder.
Men realize that for them “love” will never exist and replace it with achievement, contemplation, contentment or even lazyness. But they move on and make lives they can live for the next thirty years.
A man may say I want to get laid but how many at 40 say where have the good women gone. They accept reality, do something else and dont pine. yes pine, not whine. Whine is public to get sympathy. Pine is what you do in the middle of the night awake and regretting. Few men pine of what could be.
These women will pine. For years and years. Feminists swam in male tears.
But the tears of these poor souls would fill an ocean. And it is tragic. Concepyually as a group I empathize, I hate useless suffering.
But individually I, like most men, feel …. indifferent. It would be cruel and dishonuorable to feel vengence or karma but its damn close.
Except for a few rare true tragedies all brought this on themselves. They had many chances for what thery now want but callously threw it away in short sighted greed or compulsion. To get eternal taking care of and devotion (yes only men can truly be devoted) all they had to do was accept their choice of man as we accept ours, honour thier fielty, and dont be a bitch (not even be nice). But they chose not to.
Newtonian physics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
So they will spend thirty years in quiet desperation and shakespearian loneliness. But frankly no one cares. Their sisters have no use for them as they aged out of the Cause as their Vajayjay power waned and men see its as the karmic circle of life at best or “turnabouts a bitch…bitches” at worst.
I can’t think of a worst fate.
But I can’t think of one I actually met that I would feel sorry for.
the horseman is waxing poetical tonight.
“swords shall be broken, sheilds shall be shattered.
a sword day, a red day, err the sun rises
ride now. ride now
ride for ruin and the worlds ending.
Forth Eorlingas!!”
“My dreams have been dark of late.
Breath the free air again, my old friend”
If only there was a Gandalf to release them from the spell.
Why women are doomed. Only a man would say…
“Why should we ride to the aid of those who did not ride to ours?”
“The beacons! The beacons of Minas Tirith are lit! Gondor calls for aid!”
(millisecond consideration)
“MUSTER THE ROHIRRIM!”
Now is the hour, riders of Rohan
Oaths you have taken
Now fulfill them all
to Lord and Land.
Fuzzie –
“Hawaiian Libertarian’s aggregator.”
?
horseman –
“But I can’t think of one I actually met that I would feel sorry for.”
what is it about her that makes you feel sorry for her?
my generation pledged allegience to our society so would honour thier oaths
my son’s generation made no such pledge…to anyone.
and I do not hold it against them.
“@ fuzzie, not that it is right but even my handyman’s parents, happily married 50-some years have a “boys bath” and a “girls one.” But I get what you are saying, too. One would think sharing should be the norm.”
—–
i have decided, though, that if we ever build or renovate … i’m adding a urinal to the master bath. my husband concurs 🙂
RPG,
For that, and a few other reasons, I am glad that things did not progress with her. However, look at it a a clue to who has dominance in the relationship. Men can’t afford to lose their self respect to their wives. If the yield it, with it they yield the relationship.
that she will be alone forever and does not want it. panic attacks at work, a year without finding herself. What will fill the void. What will she pine for and what will asway it?
Horseman,
Something like this?
Ame,
In my youth, I had a job that entailed cleaning up restrooms. Cleaning up the ladies room was a revelation.
Fuzzie –
i have two teenage daughters … i know 😉
we still want a urinal in the master bath 🙂
horseman – that is sad. i think if we all live long enough, we go to the grave with regrets. when we’re young, we think we can out-do our elders and those who have gone before us. as we get older, we’re given grave doses of reality. reality does seem more harsh for some than others, though.
i tell my girls that they will make good choices and bad choices … and to make sure their good choices out-weigh their bad in their lives. when we talk about their dad, it’s hard b/c his bad out-weighed his good. our girls lament not having more good to remember of their dad. it’s tragic and sad. it didn’t have to be that way.
regrets? sure. we all have them.
but do something. do good somethings to outweigh the bad. if plan A isn’t going to work, go to plan B. or C. etc. leave behind something better for having lived on this planet.
Ame,
The “aggregator” is on the left of the blog. It lists sites with their most recent topics.
http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/
Cleaning those restrooms was something else. I was only allotted a limited amount of time in the evening and the ladies’ was always a disaster by noon.
@fuzzie in my college job I found the opposite re: bathrooms! But then the workplace was more men than women, perhaps your ratio was the opposite? (Note to public restroom users, please be considerate!)
Bloom,
I mentioned before at Spawny’s that I saw the same thing as you regarding bathrooms. The female one was pretty clean, just some paper towels on the floor or excess soap on the sink. But the male one…holy cheese and crackers. Piss on the floor (not just around the toilet!), more solid *ahem* remnants left on the back of the toilet, urine on top of the tank like they’d been doing sprinkler impressions whilst relieving themselves, our product posters constantly torn down…Most curious was that we had a 50 gallon garbage directly outside the men’s room for people to throw away food and Magic/Yugioh card wrappers in since that made a lot of trash, especially during a tournament. But instead we’d find the tiny 10 gallon pail in the men’s room literally spilling over with said garbage. It was strange, to say the least.
But I don’t think this means either sex is more or less hygienic/considerate than the other. I think it boils down to amount of usage. In Fuzzie’s place, there were more women using the restroom, whereas in my case and Bloom’s it was a decidedly more masculine demographic. More bodies using a single space = more statistically likely that *some* of them are going to be inconsiderate or gross idiots.
Horseman,
But I can’t think of one I actually met that I would feel sorry for.
It is difficult to feel sorry for someone who willingly and consciously made choices for themselves, and now have to live with them.
A post ago at Spawny’s, Bloom made the observation (to me, but it applies to everyone) that even in a woman’s early 30s she retains some options for a family life…all is not lost at this age, she can yet become a wife and mother if she finds the right mate. If she does not want to leave behind the freedom of bachelor life, that’s one thing, and she will be highly unlikely to whine in her old age just as a man who chooses eternal bachelorhood doesn’t.
But if she *knew* from a young age that she’s the type to get mushy around children, and dreamed about a wedding day, and looks through marriage catalogs, or pines for a husband to remove her from Captain status in her life…well.
Then she better open her eyes and heed the advice given here and at other blogs or dating forums. Before it becomes too late, and she ends up an unwilling bachelor, wondering (stupidly, imho) where all the good men have gone.
Very true Tarn re concious choices. I don’t think this gal was aware she was making choices, although indeed she was. Rather it seems she actually believed that when marriage/family was desired, it would be available readily upon desire. This is something women should *not* assume, niavely or otherwise. I have seen friends make the same assumption re: babies. It is really sad (tho also not unpredictable) to watch a woman at (for example) 38 decide she’s “ready” to be a mom but find nature not cooperating. Even with modern science and thousands in infertility treatments. I have seen this several times, too. I know it sounds hard to believe if one is self aware, but I would say in most cases it *had not even occurred* to these gals that such could possibly be the case, they seemingly had bought the “modern woman” script so completely! And even in the early 30s options are still open, but the window closes both for marriage market and fertility as the decade goes on and perhaps it’s our “40 is the new 30” culture mentality or something but these gals honestly seem caught off guard by that reality. That said, ignorance has never been a valid excuse for men, women desiring “equality” should not claim it either. Choices, even choices not conciously made, are indeed still choices. As they say, “big girl pants” time.
This is a story of SIW who came full circle…this maybe an anomaly…but here it is…
http://family-studies.org/erin-callan-montella-from-wall-street-hot-shot-to-wife-and-mother/
Jg1 thanks for sharing that and welcome!
I have seen friends make the same assumption re: babies. It is really sad (tho also not unpredictable) to watch a woman at (for example) 38 decide she’s “ready” to be a mom but find nature not cooperating.
This is probably going to sound harsh, but given how much we currently know about birth defects, I personally think that women shouldn’t have children after age 35 and men shouldn’t sire children after age 50. Yes, there’s some conflicting information, and yes more studies need to be done, but it is better for the children to be the offspring of younger parents. Egg DNA “corrodes” before sperm DNA, so older women have to watch out for issues like Downs Syndrome, etc, but there’s the simple fact of aging to think about as well. If a 50 year old man has a kid…he’s going to be frickin *68 years old* by the time they just graduate high school! I know I wouldn’t want my theoretical husband to be grandfather age prior to even having grandkids.
Again, that’s just my opinion.
Take it or leave it as you will.
But Tarn celebrities do it all the time!!!(Sarcasm, in case not obvious…)
That said, ignorance has never been a valid excuse for men, women desiring “equality” should not claim it either. Choices, even choices not conciously made, are indeed still choices.
🎵”If you choose not to decide, you’ll still have made a choice.”🎶
Ugh…celebrities.
Women in general really need to think about others sometimes; put yourself in their shoes. For example:
While SIW is busy starting a career, enjoying male attention and …… having it all what is a similar aged man experiencing?
Staring a career? check
Female attention? nope
…… Generally he is learning how to enjoy all he has. Plus he will learn how to tell women how to take a short walk off a tall cliff.
RPG,
An interesting story. Sad outcome but interesting.
I agree with most of what Tarnished has said, but young women who are serious about marriage really need to start looking while in their mid teens. Historically, if a woman is not married off by age 22, chances are pretty fucking good SHE WILL BE A SPINSTER.
I’d say 19 is when guys and gals should start looking, given modern times and basic biology. Your brain is still in far too much flux until then, and awash in hormones that can make for poor relationship decisions. This goes for both sexes.
Men generally find career women repulsive – the the sense of opposite to attractive – for the same reason that women find weak men repulsive. Nature understands that such unions are unlikely to persist – and any children produced are unlikely to thrive.
This is really the male side of the hypergamic coin. Men instinctively understand that satisfying a successful career women’s hypergamous instinct will be much more difficult (especially in the long term) than for a woman of more modest accomplishments in the working world. So they move on to ‘easier’ targets – woman who’s hypergamy they have a chance of satisfying. And in so doing are able to lead they life they want to live. This is where the terms ‘high- maintenance’ and ‘low-maintenance’ women come from. Feminist’s have been shaming men for being ‘intimidated’ by career women for decades. Men aren’t ‘intimidated’ by them – they simply find them repulsive.
The glorification of the working world has been one of the most subversive lies sold to women over the last 50 years. It has convinced millions of women, like the one you describe, to turn themselves into the sort of women, other women would love to commit to….if she were a man. Trading a loving family for expensive credentials, to win a meaningless job, to make as much money as possible to buy stuff she doesn’t need. A lifetime of hard work for a load of meaningless experiences, a bunch of useless crap, a barren womb and an empty house.
I’ve met a few of these women. It’s heart-breaking.
How should a man determine which type of career a woman has (re: meaningless VS worthwhile)?
Cadets nails it — the female flip of the male blue pill. Nobody wins. As a rather popular man right now might say, non PC-like, “Sad.”
I would also agree w the sentiment that savvy women see this early. Like in any free market situation, the good stuff goes first… Don’t dwaddle.
@ Tarn
It’s not really about the ‘type’ of career a women has, it’s more to do with the woman’s relationship to it. A women who is very successful career wise has probably put a lot into it, has worked hard, made sacrifices and has a lot of ego invested in it.
All these things make it very hard for her to put a man first. This matters, for it is almost impossible for a man to satisfy a woman’s hypergamous instinct – which, let’s face it, compel her to desire a man who is of higher status than her, whom she desires to lead her – if he is not at the top of her priority list.
It’s not the career that counts, its the women’s willingness to down-grade it in favour of her man that counts – to men.
@ Tarn it’s more a matter of the priority of the career vs. a personal life/relationship, I am guessing, but maybe the guys can clarify. I may be off on that…
Once again, Cadders nails it for the win!
Like yesterday I remember having this very conversation w Yohami (to Yohami!!! May he be thriving!):
What doesn’t work? Soft men and hard women. What does? Soft women and hard men. See that whole yin-yang thing, ladies?
Don’t be deceived by “modern times.” Pretty little lies. It don’t work no way, no how!
This matters, for it is almost impossible for a man to satisfy a woman’s hypergamous instinct – which, let’s face it, compel her to desire a man who is of higher status than her, whom she desires to lead her – if he is not at the top of her priority list.
This makes sense, and I’d agree with it for 99.9% of women. It’s good advice for the vast, overwhelming majority who, as Cadder puts it, desire to be led. In other words, be the “First Mate” to his “Captain”.
The more I read in the ‘sphere, the more I see that this is closer to the truth for most people than not…Men generally are “hard”, women generally are “soft” (re: Bloom’s wording).
At first, because this is the opposite of my relationship, I couldn’t understand it. But speaking with so many other men and women, and reading story after story of career-oriented women who desperately wished they’d gone a different route, I now see me and mine are part of an incredibly small percentage.
As it should be, because I think too many would be miserable otherwise!
A women who is very successful career wise has probably put a lot into it, has worked hard, made sacrifices and has a lot of ego invested in it.
All very true!
All these things make it very hard for her to put a man first.
It has to be a active decision to put one’s SO as the priority, similar to how men have to make time. Mr. or Ms. Career *could* cancel the long-planned date night with their girl/boyfriend or wife/husband to keep working and get more hours and pay…But how much will that hurt their relationship? If it’s a big project with a close deadline or if it only happens twice a year, most SOs would probably understand. But if you’re going to constantly choose the office over your man or woman, then why on earth are you with them?
@tarn, surely you like your man hard, yes? You have said as much many times! (Wink)
And yes you like him otherwise as well, which is good as well but ya know what I mean? (Wink)
Or maybe I am projecting but that’s how I prefer my man! (Hypothetically, of course! plausible deniability, etc.) Lol!
Kodos Cadders. Sisinct, clear.
To women everywhere: STOP PROJECTING!!!!
What you want MEN DO NOT.
Weak men = boring = Friendzone = male BFFs to make cookies with.
Aggressive women=too much work = competition zone = female coworker to show up for the corner office or the tomboy to show how men play sports.
key words in conversation or dating profile that scream Nope! Next!
sarcastic
handfull
accomplished
highly educated (stem exempted)
keep up with me
strong (or any synonym)
and unless you are under 25 and a 8+ do not say
not settling
know what I want
worth the wait
…cause quite frankly no your not.
women think its her MMV – His MMV
men think its her MMV – (his MMV + PAIN IN THE ASS NOT SETTLING POINTS)
So for every hoop you make him go thru you better have 1-2 points on him to offset
Otherwise that 7 aint worth the trouble of a sweet feminine 5.
@Tarn, I actually believe women need men for far more than shagging, bagging the hunt, and fending off foes. And men need women for more than sex, food, and babies. Otherwise why would we even bother, really if babies were not involved nor the rest? But we do. Bc we are halves of a whole – a whole that works nicely without all the bs layers, lawyers, mumbo jumbo, and such. Being celibate and alone w/o a maye is difficult enough by choice, painfully so when not. Kinda like positive and negative magnets. It’s designed as such. I believe anyway that’s mostly the preference, ideal world and all. Yes? You may not “need” your partner of 9+ years, but you want and enjoy him and would miss him just the same, yes? 🙂 it’s ok to admit it…
@ Tarn how far apart was that drive, again? It’s working for you both even if the objective is not babies and marriage.
Not picking on ya, just suggesting there is a there there regardless of the individual particulars… Humans be like that.
I mean look at Ton, for example. How many women live there? At least three by last count? Bc he hates women? Doesn’t find them worth some level of bs? Hardly… He likes them more than most I reckon… Plausible deniability of course. ZFG and such… Or BV? Loves women, actually, vexing as they are…
Again not to pick on anyone… Please don’t take it personal anyone…
RPG
respectfully disagree.
This is the heart of it.
Once men either age out or find a release in FWB, PUA or porn wecan and do
move past the romantic need for women. We find emotional fulfillment in sports, work, contemplation or fun with our buddies. And very few of us are driven to be fathers from a young age. MGTOWs can and do have fulfilling lives without a female companion. Friends, colleges, etc yes but a second half no.
Because we know when we let down the burden of performance and be vulnerable you lose attractuion and that is the ONLY reason for Wuv.. to be accepted when vulnerable. What you speak of the missing etc… you get from men. at your weakest, needest we are there for you, to complete your half. When we need you…..l
yeah right.
That tuning fork in the loins….ask any married golfer…replaces wuv.
It is by design is my point, much as current fashion dictates we all be blasé and meh about it.
I love men, and not just as sexual partners. They are awesome! I think they like me too, most of the time, even minus a sexual thing. It’s fun, the yin yang thing, or can be.
Horseman I speak of the feminine I suppose, tis true. In the general. Any woman who is not full on lesbian man hater, whether she has one or not, would be lying otherwise (not talking about Tarn, saying in general.) Women adore male attention, and admiration. Men I would agree are geared different. But they like women, especially when feminine, pleasant, and attractive. Yes?
I only know my own experience and what I have seen. I don’t need a man, and the wrong man is worse than no man, but a good man over no man? No question.
well I dont feel that.
He honestly doesnt.
I know many men who dont. Not from anger, loneliness or the other shaming language. They have moved past it.
RPG I am glad you have it. Many men do.
But women MUST realize THEY ARE REPLACEABLE and when you dont need the bicycles we, unlike them, are capable of honestly saying “OK.”
I should probably be quiet now! Lol.
La la la…
Why would men bother w women, honestly, if the drive was not irrational? We are a headache! Even me at times! I feel for men, having to cope w the mercurial!
RPG
no. some men, not all but some are completely indifferent to women. Nice, feminine, bitch, slut, prude. They don’t care.
You care about seagulls or pigeons? See them in the park. Might even occassionally stop to feed therm but day to day they dont really cross your mind. Same.
Like the people at work or your mechanic or the person at starbucks. You see them, you interact, you even like them as a person but they are androdgenous.
Same. To a true MGTOW its just that people are people and not seen in that light.
That is the true threat to feminism. All alphas betas puas etc. all are full of emotion but still somewhat in the game. But there is a growing faction that no longer even see the game as existing.
RPG. exactly. if we are not horny and we know you (not you but women in general) dont really love us then why bother. Only because of the emotion.
But the emotional attachment can be either replaced, lived without or never there.
like olived. half the world likes em on pizza half dont.
Women ALL want the olive whether they say it or not.
Guys… 80% like or at least will tolerate them but 20% honestly just dont like em.
Feminism was a bluff that eventually men would play by the womens rules.
Most men eventually do.
But some just walk off the court and go read a book instead
And once in the library they forget the game even existed.
RPG,
“Why would men bother w women, honestly, if the drive was not irrational? We are a headache! Even me at times! I feel for men, having to cope w the mercurial!”
LOL…that is probably the one question you really don’t want to hear the answer to!
Horseman,
I do enjoy your concise, accurate comments….well thought out and written
Lol horseman maybe I don’t want to know! True!
Still I would say it must be something… Strongly. For those who bother…
I could even speculate but I may get creamed for it. The men I interact with (and most by far far far all asexually) seem to enjoy building stuff, creating stuff, achieving stuff. The dependance/need of women for men to do so kinda drives the demand for civilization, or once did. Men seem to be achiever a by nature, maybe not all to equal degrees, but purpose drives them as far as I can see. Women may have taken that meaning away and wo appreciation for the effort, men would maybe just rather not bother. Easier to be a bachelor?
Why bother beyond his own sustenance I mean… Civilization is for women and children, men can take it or leave it mostly I reckon.
Actually Once passed some of the societial ills I see the potential for a golden age of building. Men are becoming free from the burden of having to provide for others.
Yes some will slack but after a while men get bored. Now we are free to pursue what amuses us. And men like to DO. Build. Tinker. Create.
Edison, Tesla, Graham Bell. Maybe married but to a large extent left alone to tinker.
Imagine those same minds MGTOW free of both women and societial get a job blah blah.
If we get passed the culture wars the men who ZFG will do great things. i.e. Cill’s “shack”
Women bored…farmville
Men bored….Tesla 3.
Further I would argue the fidelity and loyalty of men is by far greater, and were it not so women would have been kicked to the curb long ago. If not fidelity to a female partner, many men still feel this for their female kin (unless the women gravely abuse them.)
Anyway I ramble… There’s a point there somewhere.
Men do not owe women this, they in nobility give it. Women of late abuse it. Gravely.
Horsemen and if so women have none to blame but their own foolishness… Proving themselves worthy of devotion might be more in their interest?
RPG
Too late.
My son’s generation cannot unsee what they have seen.
Without prompting they are MGTOW but unnamed.
The fields have been salted. No new seed no matter how honest in intention will take. It will take generations of tears to wash away what has been sown.
This is based on my obervations of men, of course I can only speculate what it is like to be one. 🙂
I like them, tho. Always have.
@ tarn I don’t disbelieve your experience is more what the guys here describe than my own, but even so you seem to have the yin yang working w your choosen. And I am glad so! It’s good stuff!
Horseman could be. In my neck of the woods there is a whole tribe who don’t live such and are populating at record speed. Self sufficient. self contained. Pockets always survive collapse, so far anyway.
In the town I live, there is an eatery where any night of the week a guy could literally be surrounded by young, chaste, attractive, polite, well mannered Nordic virgin lassies! Sangra la I suppose!
Where have all the good men gone? I dunno, they seem to be in abundance around the manosphere… A few not but even so by far most seem to be.
@tarn, surely you like your man hard, yes? You have said as much many times! (Wink)
And yes you like him otherwise as well, which is good as well but ya know what I mean? (Wink)
Or maybe I am projecting but that’s how I prefer my man! (Hypothetically, of course! plausible deniability, etc.) Lol!
*eyebrow raise*
Bloom, my friend, I do believe you’ve used up your entire weekly allotment of winks and nudges just now.
*All Of The Triggers*
*Don’t Read Further If Honest Sex Talk Upsets You*
*Last Warning, Amigo*
*Alright, Your Choice…*
Yes, well, it’s not much of a secret that I’m a nympho. I need sex as a physical outlet at the very least, and of course there is a strong intimate component as well. Perhaps when I’m older this fire will finally not burn so hot 24/7/365…
As for liking Seamus hard? Yes. I greatly enjoy it when we have fun sexytimes, and I wish it was more than once a week. I’d like it everyday, he’d like it every other day when he’s emotionally stable. But honestly? If he lost his hardness, I’d still be interested in having sex and pleasing him. Like if he had a condition where he’d retain the ability to orgasm but wouldn’t be able to sustain an erection…I’d still love him dearly, and we’d just do all the other activities we already partake of. It’d kinda be the opposite of how he is lately, to be honest.
I mean, we already do things “out of order” most of the time (PiV first because I’m don’t impatient and don’t want to wait, then what is typically classified as “foreplay” to get him off), so it’d be no big deal for me.
If you were talking more along the lines of regular “masculine hardness”, then no. He is not hard in that way, nor would I ever want to change his personality in such a way. He is the ocean to my rock, the wind to my oak. I am stoic, outwardly balanced, good with money and planning, enjoy learning new skills or building my knowledge base, drawing, reading scifi, working, and being in natural and quiet settings. He is emotional, wears his heart on his sleeve, is rather crap with remembering a lot of things and tends to be a bit frivolous in his spending (though getting much better!), enjoys meeting new people and being the center of attention, likes to cook, read fantasy, and prefers busy city environments.
Of course, we both like painting miniatures, boardgames, comic books, role-playing games, and watching superhero movies or Star Wars/Star Trek/etc.
Just as you said, Bloom.
Yin and yang. It is just that our roles are reversed for the most part, as society would deem it. But that makes the scales no less equal, since we add to what the other is lacking. For example, he helps me out of my “boring” comfort zones and will make situations where I’m not socially anxious, and I provide a calm, level, focused personality to talk him down from his ADHD highs and bring him up from his depression-caused lows.
We care For as well as About, and are truly lucky to have created such a friendship.
Yes? You may not “need” your partner of 9+ years, but you want and enjoy him and would miss him just the same, yes? 🙂 it’s ok to admit it…
*raises eyebrow again*
Of course. Why would I deny this?
He has said that he would be forlorn without me as well. That’s…kinda how it feels when you love someone, isn’t it? Or supposed to?
We have discussed how our last time together will hopefully be, and have a small list of activities (sexual and non) that we’d like to do with each other before saying goodbye and/or becoming “just” friends again. It is a little sad to think about, but the reality is that time never stops and nothing…even really great relationships…do not last forever. Now, we have no time schedule or anything. It’s not as though we’re in a countdown, so we may be lovers for another year or another 10. But it’s usually good to set goals, plan, and be prepared as much as one can.
Now, be honest, Bloom…*cheeky grin*
You thought I’d be more Rah, Rah, Fish-Bicycle in this response, didn’t you?
Where have all the good men gone? I dunno, they seem to be in abundance around the manosphere… A few not but even so by far most seem to be.
They are literally everywhere. If each man were a drop of water, the US would be underwater.
So for every hoop you make him go thru you better have 1-2 points on him to offset
Otherwise that 7 aint worth the trouble of a sweet feminine 5.
As I always say, hoops are for basketball courts, not relationships.
Why be harsh and competitive with one another, when enough of the outside world is already like that? Time spent with your SO should be like unto a sanctuary where you can take off the masks you wear all day long.
Tarn how far apart was that drive, again? It’s working for you both even if the objective is not babies and marriage.
Truth. Magnetic personalities we have.
The drive from my place to his is currently a little under 2 hours. However, I will be staying at his house soon for some of June, plus all of July and August. It’ll put me closer to my place of employment, with the added benefit of me paying “rent” aka being able to help him with his mortgage until he finds a new job. Having 0 income other than unemployment checks and side jobs for the summer would not be good for his wallet, obviously, and I’d prefer he not dip too hard into his savings…
@ Tarn you replied just as I expected. You love and care for him deeply. You share sexy fun times. It’s more than that also. It’s not only that. Tis a mystery this! But a good one 🙂 enjoy!
I don’t disbelieve your experience is more what the guys here describe than my own, but even so you seem to have the yin yang working w your choosen.
It is…in between, I think.
Yin Yang is the best way to go, for everyone, instead of trying to put two of the same exact type together and missing all the many beautiful shades of differences that come from being complementary.
And I am glad so! It’s good stuff!
All about accepting the individual as themselves, instead of declaring they should conform unrealistically and be miserable or highly frustrated. Imo, of course.
Others may disagree.
Why *is* the concept of Yin Yang/complementary personalities so very hated by Fems?
Why do they want women to be in a role most will admit (in some way, shape, or form) they don’t desire once the cards are dealt?
Who gains from this debacle?
How much emptier would dating sites be if they automatically deleted any profile that used 2 or more of the terms Horseman mentions? Nearly barren, right, Fuzzie?
It’s important to not try & force everyone into the same mold. I’m convinced that the people (mostly women) who will denounce a girl for wanting to get married at 23 and stay at home are (for the most part) the same people who, had they been around in 1958, would have denounced a girl for *not* wanting to get married at 21 but rather to pursue a career instead. The enforcement of conformity, to this personality type, is more important than the substance of what is being enforced.
⬆⬆This is why you’re amazing, David.
Don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise, because they will be embarrassingly wrong in saying so.
Indeed David, the herd defines the FI and expects conformity according to the times…
Tarn,
I have read a lot of profiles and, yes, a lot of them would go by the wayside given your conditions. What it boils down to is that they want to control the relationship from the start. Since we know this can’t work, it ends up being self destructive.
Some women succeed.Earlier, I mentioned the one who won’t share a bathroom with her husband. She had lots of other conditions too.This only encourages other women to believe they have men over a barrel.
I haven’t logged onto OkCupid in years and still the thought of reading profiles fills me with dread.