Tags
battle of the sexes, beta orbiter, betrayal, break up, break ups, cheating, children, commitment, dreams, head games, love, loyalty, marriage, mind games, plate spinning, red pill, security, single
I have written about my former neighbor I nicknamed Vixen before more than once. Last time I wrote about her she was about to have a baby, and was torn between the dad who wouldn’t commit and the beta orbiter who would.
The baby is now almost 10 months old and sure is a cute little guy! He has a very even temperament and is the “easy baby” all moms hope for. I think God knew what she could handle, and cut her a lot of slack!
She still continues to waffle between the two choices, never fully committing or detaching from either one. So things continue to be a cluster.
The other night I had a little red pill heart to heart with her, and explained that a big reasons she (and her kids) are in the situation she’s in is due to her fence sitting. In classic projection she’s the one who is really unwilling to commit to either path 100%, not them, and the longer it goes on the more damage is being done.
Honestly I am surprised they both have not given up on her by now, but from what I see both guys are willing to commit to her *IF* she would commit to them. But she can’t decide, and that is the problem.
The baby’s father has a great job but it is and always has been in a different state. He comes home frequently, but as he has explained to her multiple times if he were to take a job closer to home, he’d be taking a 2/3 pay cut as well.
He’s got an Alpha temperament and so the more she tries to bend him to her will, the more distance he puts between them. I have met him and seen them interact and she constantly “shit tests” him whenever he comes home for the weekend. His reaction? He doesn’t want to be around her, and so he leaves.
As I watched her once again bring up the tired old, “We wouldn’t fight if you were here, it’s your job that is the problem,” yada yada last time he visited, I could not help but interrupt, “Haven’t we had this fight already?” (Not to mention in front of myself and the kids!)
He’s made it pretty clear he is more than willing to pay her rent and commit to her *if* she will stop the nagging and fighting and would drop the orbiter. And yet she just can’t seem to stop herself, even when it leads to him breaking things off and dating other women for awhile, which he has done. He’s a good guy but he simply is not going to tolerate her behavior.
Her beta orbiter is also a great guy. But she says as much as she wishes she felt “tingles” with him, she doesn’t. He’s too available, too ready to run to her aid, too willing to put up with her nonsense. It kills her attraction but he just can’t seem to stop himself. He’s holding on in hopes that he will be the last guy standing in the end.
During our red pill talk I asked her which one she wanted. She said the baby’s father, ideally, which I also agree now that baby is here and he is willing if she can learn to curb her tongue. But I explained to her he would never be all in unless she was too. And that means cutting off the beta orbiter and his “help” 100% completely. And of course all other potential orbiters or relationships with single men who are attracted to her.
I also pointed out that her behavior was driving him away, and that rather than fight with him every time he comes to town, maybe she should welcome him, make a fuss, treat him like a king, and not complain. Make her place somewhere he can’t wait to get to rather than run away from.
He’s got the opportunity to transfer to an equal job here within the next six months. So I suggested she spend the next six months cementing the relationship than continue to play foolish games. Cut off the other guy completely in the meantime, as his involvement and help only makes things more confusing. She simply can’t have both. She agreed it made sense.
Then, this weekend, just two days after our talk she spent most of her time with guess who? The beta orbiter. Ug!
I didn’t say anything, but she knows what I think. She’s playing with fire and it’s going to end up with her and her kids getting burned I am afraid.
She has taken note of my own long distance relationship, also due to work constraints. Rather than fight with him and make it an issue, I patiently wait because I realize it is in both of our best interest he ride out the next few years to get a full retirement that will be a huge benefit to us both! In the meantime we are in frequent contact, never fight, and see each other as often as his leave time allows. On weekends I stay home and I stay away from “friendships” with single guys because I don’t want him to even have to question where I stand. I have chosen him and that’s that. I do all I can to prove I am a good bet rather than play games and try to make him prove himself to me! He’s all in, but I know he would not be if I were not, too! (And I respect that!)
The bottom line is men don’t share. They just don’t. And men don’t like a bunch of drama either. Her own behavior is why she is single and has a commitment from nobody, while meanwhile I don’t have a care in the world and all is swell! I know she’s watching how I am handling my own situation differently, and I hope it will click for her, although honestly there’s already a LOT of damage done in the last 2-3 years she’s played games. I don’t see how either relationship could ever be what it fully could have been had she not played games. I wonder if she will ever get that?
What do you think? Have you ever seen a woman try to run a relationship as if she is an Alpha male? Except she isn’t, so the plate spinning and jealousy does not work in her favor? Please share your thoughts in the comments.
(Personally I think both guys should RUN!!! But softie that I am, I still hope for her, her kid’s, and the guys sake she will figure it out before they do.)
Let those who have ears hear.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Thanks for telling this story. In your opinion (and from a feminine perspective), why do some women pull games like this when it is logically not sustainable? As you stated, it won’t attract or keep a guy with the masculine traits that she is attracted to and will only bring a guy who she cannot sustain a long term relationship with because his excessive availability and willingness to tolerate her bollocks will undermine any attraction? You seem to have both a good logical base as well as a natural understanding of the feminine… would be good to get your insight.
RPG,
you are correct. They should both run. VERY FAST! This woman is her own worst enemy and you are correct in that men won’t share. It is primal but we won’t.
I’ve seen a few women pretend to play alpha not in relationships, but in organizations to try to attain more influence. To most of the casual people, they seem like they’re THE top of the totem poll, but for someone such as myself who has A) known both of the two in question for years and B) a very scrutinizing eye on individual’s behavior, I can see them floundering. They live for the validation and, like Instagram whores, are willing to sell out close friends in order to receive their quick fix of praise.
As such, they have driven away many close friends and drawn the resentment of many more. In the meantime, their local section of the organization is crumbling around them because they are too busy playing politics to see the mess they’re causing. Soon enough, like your friend, if they don’t straighten up their act, their will be nothing left for them.
Chubaolyu, it is really confusing and I would not have understood it until I discovered the red pill. Basically her own emotions are getting the better of her, and as you say getting her further from her objective and even astray from her own best interests! I think her “shit tests” are a way to try to get him to chase her, except because he has options and won’t play along, he refuses. He’s right there in her hand *if* she would do what he wants, which is commit to him 100% and knock off the drama. Alpha types will settle down, but not to a bunch of nonsense!
I think she also still sees her SMV/MMV as it was at 19, when she looked just like a young Demi Moore and was a cheerleader and all that. Now she is a 42-year-old single mom who while still better looking than average, is no longer holding the cards (women hold more sway in youth, men w age). So she’s playing a game that used to work, not realizing the rules have changed and she no longer has the Trump card.
She’s able to attract Alphas but not keep them because of her self defeating behavior. But rather than look within, she thinks it’s “them.”
Without some serious self introspection, I don’t see things changing much. And for people who learn the hard way, introspection usually only comes after devastating loss. Which she is heading straight toward…
She must see she now has few options (even less so w/ a new baby) while both of the guys have many. She’s the one who needs to prove her worth now, not them. And she’s not doing it very well, for sure!
Not to mention, her daughters are observing all this — what is it teaching them?
Stunning insight as usual. So basically she’s grown up with unrealistic expectations, and the day of reckoning to correct those has come. Thank you… you’re doing a lot of good here. I hope more people keep up with your work because it would make for a much better society.
RPG,
She will blow it with both of them. I can’t understand why the beta orbiter is still around. He has to know where the baby came from. While all the women’s magazines run articles on how to get men to commit. That is not the problem. It is getting women to commit. That we have a divorce rate of fifty percent with women filing seventy to eighty percent of the time tells me it is not the men.
As for her kids, haven’t you already said that the older one is getting the wrong message? Or, am I confusing stories?
Also, Chubaloyolo, I suspect she suffers from a trait I see in many “more attractive than most” women (and sometimes men) they are o used to the doors flying open easily based on their looks, that they become a one trick pony of sorts. It works for them, until it suddenly doesn’t, and then they don’t have any other strategy. She looks much like her mom did in her youth, but her mom has not aged well. Soon her one trick will not work, and then what? Crisis.
Being too attractive can be a real handicap, I think, if one is not pushed to develop MORE THAN that.
Also, the beta orbiter is actually a former hardcore player himself, so she is the first gal to turn the tables on him, as well. I think that’s what drives his attraction, he can’t “catch” her. Maybe his karma coming home to roost, for all those gals he said whatever they wanted to hear only to disappear the next morning? (He’s the better looking of the two, as well.)
Awwwww, now….shucks! 😀 Thank you!!!
That’s the other gal, Fuzzie. But yes, she’s doing it too.
RPG,
I can’t keep them straight. That they are pulling the same tricks does help keep me on track.
Agreed. As a tangential example, I always relied on my natural athleticism to get by until injuries forced me to pay more attention to my diet and all round better care. It’s funny how the same things keep coming up in so many different avenues of life. You’re a wise woman your man is super lucky.
and she needs to choose to learn that saying ‘yes’ to one man also means actively, subtly, emotionally, and mentally saying ‘no’ to every other man over and over till one of you is six feet under. she needs to choose to learn that simply because another gives her that attention does not mean she should, for any reason, receive that attention.
however, to do so would mean that she must rein herself in and behave – meaning, she must take responsibility for her behavior. and to do so would mean she would need to stop finding any kind of fulfillment in the affections of every other man – meaning, she’d have to grow up and face reality and … take responsibility for herself and her own behavior.
i knew a woman once who came to me for advice and help over a several-year period of time. in the end, she chose her own, selfish, self-absorbed stupidity and justified it … and abandoned her children (who were the main reason i helped her so much). i ended that friendship.
unfortunately, one can almost always find another to commiserate and support whatever stupidity one chooses to commit, and perhaps that’s one of the reasons they don’t stop.
screw up your own life if you want … but when you start screwing up your kids’ lives, i’m out.
You can’t save her and you can’t “save” the beta (if Alpha 1 drops out of the picture she will find Alpha 2 to carry the dance). The only party you can assist here is the Dad.
He needs a certified copy of the birth certificate and a paternity test. Now.
Lawyer up until it is done and stay away from her and the child
Good point chubaoyolu, it is always good to push ourselves to grow outside of the “easy” zone and not to rely on any one strength too much.
“to learn that saying ‘yes’ to one man also means actively, subtly, emotionally, and mentally saying ‘no’ to every other man over and over till one of you is six feet under. ”
YES!!! THIS!!!!
And the rest, absolutely. Thanks for adding that Ame!
Saracen, thanks for adding that. He already has done so, and is more than willing to lawyer up to protect his parental rights — with or without her. Absolutely!
Also very true Saracen, we can’t save others, only warn them and hope they hear! So far, she has not…
Red Pill Girl: “I suspect she suffers from a trait I see in many “more attractive than most” women (and sometimes men) they are o used to the doors flying open easily based on their looks, that they become a one trick pony of sorts. It works for them, until it suddenly doesn’t, and then they don’t have any other strategy. She looks much like her mom did in her youth, but her mom has not aged well. Soon her one trick will not work, and then what? Crisis.
Being too attractive can be a real handicap, I think, if one is not pushed to develop MORE THAN that.”
This is the reason why all girls should be encouraged (pushed, coerced) into developing other interests and talents, and developing them while still young. They need to have something else that they can point to and feel a sense of accomplishment about. If all they get attention or praise for is their looks, then that’s all that they think they have to offer. Then suddenly it stops working for them and they have been cast adrift, not knowing what to do.
I feel very sorry for the baby in this story. The kid needs a stable two-parent family.
Agreed Sue, thanks for adding that!
Both my girls are (imho) very attractive but I actually do not play that up. I would much rather they become well rounded people than just rely on their looks.
I should be mad at Vixen. It seems that she has spent much of her life rewarding men who show her good faith with faithlessness.
Nah, she is just being female.
But Dad is on the hook good and proper. Were I him, I would be pricing BnB’s in Mazatlan or fishing charter businesses in Fiji.
You are too easy on her. Women have agency and should be held to it. Vixen knows better. That men have been willing to carry women has led us to where we are.
Agency without feedback gets you nowhere.
Consider: if the law held that a single mom could only receive child benefits once she had her tubes tied, do you think Vixen would be making the same choices?
In a world where having one child or ten by absent fathers carries no penalty, women are rudderless. And yes, men made this situation.
There was nothing to stop but her own good sense. She is a grown woman with kids and she got herself pregnant outside of marriage. Not very bright. Checks sent in the mail do not take care of all of this.
Glad you’re back Bloom and obviously feeling better. But as always the one pushing the envelope … I will address part of your article. Specifically … “What do you think? Have you ever seen a woman try to run a relationship as if she is an Alpha male? ”
So … got an homework exercise for you, Bloom. Go read some CL Ads … W4M. See any Ads that demand men send their pics so a woman can review them, so SHE can decide if she’s interested? And, NO, she did not provide a pic for men to see. No age, no race, no height, no weight, no pic. NO NOTHING. Maybe age and “Curvy”. See any Ads that demand men send pics. Send Stats. Send emails and phone numbers ? See any Ads … that aren’t Ads at all … but are nothing more than a list of demands that men must meet. Alpha women … or just messed up in the head ?
Seriously many of the Ads on CL on Women looking for men (W4M) consist of this: I HAVE A VAGINA … I DESERVE A SLAVE … A MAN WHO DEDICATES HIS LIFE TO ME … I OWE HIM NOTHING … HE OWES ME EVERYTHING … HE MUST BE TALL, DARK, HANDSOME, RICH, EDUCATED, CAREER … HE MUST BE MY SOUL MATE, PRINCE CHARMING, THE ONE, … I’m short, fat, an obese pig really, and stupid and uneducated and broke and have 3 kids by 2 different bad-boyz .. but they were TALL and weren’t white … don’t know what race they were but since he was tall and a bad boy … who cares !!!
I’ve said on here before that most single women in the US are mentally ill and I will rest my case. Bloom your friend is mentally ill. Has no clue what is good for her. No clue what is good for her child. JUST DOESN”T FUCKING CARE. And in most cases will choose what is opposite of what would result in a good outcome. In other words what would fuck her kids up the most … is what she is gonna choose.
Seen it a million times.
But welcome back. Glad you over the flu and feeling well.
Red Pill Girl, I knew you’d be the kind of mom who would encourage her girls to be more well-rounded! They will never grow up to be “Vixens”! 🙂
Women like Vixen is what happens when we believe that looks are all we have going for us.
Mega,
I don’t know how much longer online dating can go on. It has to have burnt through all the men at least twice.
Sue,
There are a lot of Vixens out there. In the long run, that can’t be good for women. In the short run, it is not working out too well for men.
If more people stopped enabling Vixens, stopped giving them a free pass because of their looks, many might decide to develop other talents. As long as they get all the attention they desire from their beauty, that’s all they’ll use to get ahead. Vixens don’t exist in a vacuum.
Lately I am dating a milf with a 15 year old daughter, She is not single mom but divorced mom. Baby daddy pays for the child. I don´t have to pay a single penny and that is great since I am pretty cheap.
She is an alpha female and I am a submissive guy, but I laugh with her (and at her) so, at the end of the day I am not that submissive. And she knows it.
She has a ton of admirers in Tinder but I have 10 hookers in my phonebook. That is equality.
Today, for St. Valentine, in a couple of hours (is high noon here) I am going to visit my favorite hooker and I will bring her a box of chocolates. In the evening, I will go with the milf to the movies. We are going to watch Trainspotting 2 since we both liked Trainspotting, 20 years ago. I bought the theatre tickets. And after the movie I expect the milf to pay for the dinners and the drinks.
Such a perfect day…
Why isnt she moving to his place?
Rotepillblog do you mean why doesn’t she move to where he works? He lives on the job site w other guys dorm style. The job is in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah but she can still move there. Why not follow the man?
She has a 10 month-old baby with another man and this beta guy is desperate for her? Wow, what a loser! Why would he want to sign up for that? He must truly have zero options; there’s a natural aversion men have to taking care of another man’s child, ten times more so when the child is that young. But this guy is falling all over himself to be proactively cucked. Yikes.
rotepillblog, the father of her two oldest is here, not that he didn’t take a job elsewhere for awhile. But that is her reasoning, she didn’t want to keep the oldest from their family. And all her family (and his) is here as well. And honestly he has not asked her too, likely because of her behavior! He bought her a ring long before baby was on the way but has never given it to her because as he put it, “she needed to stop fighting with him all the time.”
KidJupiter, I know. This has been going on even before baby was on the way. I too am surprised he stood by her during the pregnancy and after. However she has said that since baby has arrived he seems less willing to commit, unless she can eliminate the relationship w/ the baby’s father altogether. I don’t think baby’s dad would allow that as he has fought for paternity and his rights. She’s nursing the baby, partly as an excuse to have to be there during visits, but once that is over there really won’t be any need for her to be in the picture (and she knows that.)
I probably should add, if it is not obvious, she’s not the brightest.
@ GentlemanJack, I agree I think there is an “attention whore” element to her motivations as well. Like she needs the external validation?
@rotepillblog and actually now that I think about it, both guys have offered to buy a home together but she’s the one who resists that. She’d have to behave then, wouldn’t she? Hummm…
He stuck with her through the pregnancy, too? Good God… Have they ever had sex? If the answer is no, then this guy is way beyond gone. She’s just doing what women will do, absent proper guidance and correct parenting – she’s acting on her natural AF-BB female instincts. This Beta guy has absolutely no excuse for his behavior. It’s not natural behavior.
And the baby daddy isn’t too bright, either. It would be one thing to extract commitment-free sex, but because he sent his soldiers onto the battlefield and they were successful in their one-pointed mission, he’s on the hook to take care of a child and have to deal with this feral, untrained woman.
@KidJupiter, She was sexually active w both prior to baby. I am not sure about now. The orbiter is snipped, so no babies. Agreed the other one was foolish to risk getting her pregnant!
Happy Rationalization Day everyone (valentines for non red pillers)
Married beta…rationalizes the whole year for the unenthusiastic sex he will get tonight.
Married alpha widow…rationalizes the security of the beta she settled for long enough to starfish for half an hour tonight.
The Go Gurl 20 something ….rationalize hotty mcbiker is really going to settle down and appreciate her.
The Career Woman 30+ …rationalizes that she scares less successful men and freezing her eggs is an investment in the gauranteed future.
The 40+ Single Gal….rationalizes she dont need no man cause she is so fine on her own…in the middle of the night. the dark. lonely. endless. night.
The 20s to 70s Mgtow …rationalizes … well nothing. We dont need any of the above and a paid off house and disposable money by the wagonload satisfies a lot. And if we ever desire women our success and wealth gets them running. But why would we bother.
yup. happy rationalization day.
If a woman is torn between you and another man… you run. Or drive away very fast.
These guys are pathetic.
@redpillchick great blog. Well done
Thank you Ian, I agree 100%. “Next” is the best way for a guy to deal with a situation like this.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/toronto-couple-75-year-marriage-1.3980302
for those who call me a cynic. this is how it should be.
p.s. been married for 29 years, met my wife at 16 so known her for 36 years.
half way to what his couple has.
Sue,
Stop trying to pin it all on men. I get enough of this from “alpha” men who turn everything around to make it the man’s fault. Women have agency and, with that, comes responsibility.
If you think Valentine’s Day is awkward for humans, you don’t know the half of it.
On second thought, today should be awkward for Vixen.
@redpillgirl Exactly.
Men need to man up. My friend caught his wife cheating recently. Didnt dump her or kick her out. Just a lot of arguing and now he forgives her. Crazy
@ian, I do know couples who have worked through infidelity (the guy in those cases) but it was not easy. I hope your friend’s wife realizes she was very lucky he forgave her and that she remains true from here on.
@redpillgirl I hope you are rite.
I also hope your message gets out to other girls so they become more feminine.
fuzzie: “Women have agency and should be held to it.”
In all seriousness, how?
Fuzzie: “Sue,
Stop trying to pin it all on men. I get enough of this from “alpha” men who turn everything around to make it the man’s fault. Women have agency and, with that, comes responsibility.”
Where did I say that men were the only ones at fault here? Women also reward this behavior. They drink the Kool Aid too. They pay money for plastic surgery and lap up what the beauty magazines tell us (even though the magazines would all deny it). While it may have always been true that more attractive people naturally get treated a little better, our society is taking it too far, and that is why we have Vixens (and their male counterparts).
I’m not saying it’s wrong for anyone (male or female) to strive to be their best, appearance-wise. But it is not healthy for anyone, male OR female, to rely too heavily on their looks to get ahead. Looks will fade–even men’s looks–with age. We wouldn’t be fawning over George Clooney if he was bald and had a pot belly, now would we? 😉
Saracen,
I think the first step would be to have government step away from providing for women.
Sue,
In the aftermath, it has always been what I could have done differently and that has been projected on society. What could men have done differently? Even when they had no control over the outcome. It’s really bad when “alpha” men use this to trash the confidence of other men.
Attractiveness in men is different from that of women. In women, beauty is key, in men, power is primary.
fuzzie: Everyone is responsible for their own choices and their behavior. Those men who overlook obvious character flaws in a woman because she’s beautiful may be bringing pain upon themselves in the long run. Same thing with women who involve themselves with exciting bad boys.
The bad boys and vixens are completely responsible for their own bad behavior. But, if others would stop being drawn to these walking train wrecks like a moth to a flame, then they wouldn’t be able to do as much damage.
Sue,
These walking trainwrecks disguise themselves pretty well. At first glance, they look normal. It is only with time that the details emerge. In times past, communities were small enough that people could not escape their reputation. That is not true anymore.
Fuzzie are you letting all those girls who choose the badboys Off the hook? These people are not hanging out At church or the library. It’s obvious what they are, especially after some time passes, but they still have plenty of attention (both the female and male train wrecks).
Sue,
I am not letting them off the hook. I thought you were.
I let neither men or women off the hook when they keep falling for train wrecks.
Why did I think otherwise? It does seem to be the lot of men in life to be played for chumps. Compounding this is that it is socially acceptable.
Fuzzie, I’m confused about what your point is here. It sounds like you think men should be let off the hook for overlooking beautiful women’s character flaws (that’s the phrase I used before–character flaws), but women should not be let off the hook for ignoring the character flaws in bad boys.
I think we all should stop overlooking character flaws and other obvious warning signs. We’d save ourselves a lot of heartache if we’d do that.
This doesn’t absolve the Vixens or Bad Boys of their behavior, naturally.
Beta orbiter should give an ultimatum: “We shag or I move!”.
You obviously don’t get it, Iberian.
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