Tags
affairs, alpha male, beta orbiter, cheating, dating after divorce, dating success, divorce, love, marriage, red pill, relationships
You may recall I have written about Vixen, my former neighbor before, and an update, and her latest… Well this morning I talked to her and probed further to try and understand why the Alpha/beta orbiter thing, and by golly I think I may have struck a red pill goldmine! New data to fold in, in any case, hopefully.
(Male readers: Please keep in mind the following is examined from the FEMALE pov. What I would advise the men in this situation, or what men would advise them, likely would be, “Next!” And I get that. I feel for these guys involved, I truly do! I am just trying to explain the “why” of female behavior from the gal side, which may help men understand it better too, but please know I am NOT saying it is good or right gals do this. To clarify. )
Short story, she’s been torn between two guys for several years: One is an Alpha who she chases, one is a beta who chases her. Both are intelligent, successful, and good looking guys. However her playing the fence is damaging the chances of relationship success with either suitor by the day. So why does she do it?
It’s an ancient female mindset, and a part of hypergamy, to always have a plan B, and C if needed. Aka the beta orbiter. Why? Life is historically precarious for a woman, especially a woman with small children, as her man may go off to war or off to hunt and never return. (Life as a man is obviously risky as well, in a more direct way, by no means minimizing that.)
She really wants the Alpha, but he won’t fully commit to her (and maybe for good reason!) This leaves her feeling unsafe. So she keeps the beta orbiter close by, in case Alpha bails. Beta orbiter is a real steady Eddie, willing to watch her kids, pay for their dance lessons, pay her bills, the works. Before the unplanned (or was it?) pregnancy with Apha, I highly advocated she forget Alpha and go for the beta orbiter, who I believe is a far better bet if what she needs is a family man. He’s actually far better looking, far more interesting and intelligent, and so on as well. The better “catch” imho, except despite me advising him not to be, he’s just too darn available! And that turns her off.
Meanwhile the Alpha remains just out of reach. He’s told her he would marry her and take care of her in a minute, IF she knocks off the beta orbiter thing and adopts HIS frame. But she isn’t sure… will he? Can she trust him? After all, he’s got “options” and has shown he’s willing to walk if needed. (Ironically this is exactly what draws her in, if he was too available, he’d be a deta orbiter in her mind, and she’d likely seek another Alpha. Complex, I know!)
And so it goes round and round. I suggested she completely cut off contact with the beta orbiter, because he undermines her relationship with the Alpha and is a BIG reason things aren’t progressing to a commitment. She really needs to choose. And to PROVE herself worthy of commitment!
Add to that, the wall approaches and I pointed this out to her today. Don’t waste precious time, I suggested. Get this figured out NOW, don’t wait until you are 50. (She’s 41, I believe.)
She saw the sense in all this, when I explained the concepts. I truly believe she herself does not understand how her feminine imperative is pushing her to do things that are not helping, but actually hurting her chances of success. One must recognize the self-sabatoge hypergamy can cause, and why women play these games, to overcome them.
She said it was because Alpha isn’t local, as his job requires him to be onsite in a remote location (and pays much more b/c of that.) To this I called BS. I am in a long distance relationship myself, which she is seeing is working very well for me now that I am red pill savvy enough to “get” what I need to give and be to have that successful long distance relationship. But as I told her, he’ leave me in a MINUTE if I played the games she is, and so I simply don’t. He’s way too good to me for me to ever even think of risking that! Because of him, my life now works in ways it never could have without him, and I feel safe. It’s a choice, I told her. If she wants what she sees I have, then she needs to accept his frame and the job situation.
Anyway, I hope Vixen will consider all this and for her baby boy’s sake, do what the Alpha demands, make him cookies, and nurtures that relationship with all she has. And most of all gives him one of the biggest things a gal can give a man — LOYALTY. Commit to him or he will never commit to you!
We’ll see… you can lead a horse to water but… I hope to God she DRINKS!!!! (I’d force her to drink if I could but she needs to see it on her own and do so willingly, darn it!)
What do you think? Have you seen women do this? Please share in the comments…
Hello wise stranger! 🙂
Well, now… isn’t this just the age-old cluster than so many get themselves into? I realize you’re simply telling the story and everyone needs to do what makes them happy, but this sounds like a royal eff’ing goose chase. Fact is, if Alpha really WANTED her to commit, I truly believe he would use the Alpha magic to make it happen. What’s to say he’s not completely happy having a part timer in his life? She sounds to be hanging-on to strings that will provide no long term stability. You make Alpha and Beta sound pretty damn similar so it ‘sounds’ like she is the one that has the commitment problem. Chasing a personality type that is bad for you because it’s not easy is personally ridiculous to me.
Just my humble opinion here. Beta’s always seem to get the short end of the stick in situations like this. Your friend really needs to own her thoughts and emotions. If she wants to continue playing the field, great… but don’t disguise it as something else. If Alpha becomes too easy, does a Charlie justifiably enter the picture?!
Sheesh 😉
Great to see you Dan! Yes, agreed… she is not helpless or blameless by any means. And as you say, the Alpha/beta thing can be deceptive. I guess I call the one “Alpha” bc he’s in no way caving to her demands. He’s available if she behaves, but he’s quick to bail if she acts up. She picks fights and shit tests him when he does visit, which of course prompts his early departure. When I call the other guy “beta” I mean he puts up with endless shit from her, despite his being a great package and a good, good man. Ironically HE used to be a major player, she’s the first gal not to chase him, so who knows. Do we all want what we can’t have? Maybe I used to fall for that, but not anymore. And I am happier than I have ever been! 😀 Zero drama or games. And a LOT of that is because I keep MY junk in the trunk. When I was younger, I was too insecure, too needy, to much of a shit tester (although always faithful.) I have learned, the Red Pill has schooled me well!
Also Dan, good point about the Alpha… maybe he really DOESN’T want to commit? And actually he never really has. I speculate she got pregnant thinking it would change things. But… nope. He also knew she wasn’t on birth control and he didn’t protect himself either so… Russian roulette. Not a good life strategy, that
Dan could be right and/or she’s actually got two beta orbiters; except one’s a moon and the other is a comet.
I’ve never been comfortable with this Greek alphabet of male distinctions in complex situations. It was good shorthand back in the early PUA days but now it’s been turned into a pseudo science and the terms are taken far too seriously. We all comment on this occasionally but it’s worth repeating so that we don’t go too far with it. We either need better definitions, a new vocabulary or just to remind ourselves not to make a religion out of it.
This situation is remarkably stable, it’s been going on for years, right? That would tell me, if I was anything more than the most remote third or forth party observer, that all the principals are actually getting exactly what they want from it … including the opportunity to entertain themselves by using it as the ongoing soap opera of their lives.
I always think that human behavior can be discerned by following the calories (like following the money). Natural selection won’t let us expend calories on stuff that doesn’t matter to us. So actions mean more than words, because words use fewer calories. No matter what they SAY, I’m guessing these people find some value in continuing their triangular relationship the way it is right now. If it wasn’t solving some sort of problem for each of them (and maybe more than one) they would naturally fly off in separate directions … just to stick with the gravitational model.
I think girls are the only ones who don’t understand the purpose of beta orbiters
It ain’t alpha to lay down a demand like drop the beta etc. Alphas shrug our shoulders and move on to a better option
This beta guy is really pathetic. I commented on it the last post you did about this situation, and the fact that it’s still going on is a testament to this guy’s utterly pathetic loserdom. And he’s footing her bills, to boot? Yikes. He’s not just a tool, he’s the entire tool department at Home Depot…..
I hate to say it but I’d bet that as he gets older she tries to turn her kid into yet another planet in her solar system. If he’s smart or just has some highly independent DNA he may be lucky enough to escape. Let’s hope he can eventually establish his own terms for that relationship.
My prediction is that she will lose both of them. What she doesn’t understand is that she made her choice when she had “Alpha’s” kid. Now, she will sit on the fence until she burns through the patience of both of them.
I know you hate it, but the “three date rule” by design is a good defense for guy against this. It keeps sunk costs to a reasonable level.
I am more than a little mad at Vixen. She is not doing much to enhance the reputation of women. Men will see this at second hand and say that their evenings would be better spent doing anything other than chasing women.
“she’s been torn between two guys for several years”
Years huh? That Beta guy is a thirsty simping cuck who needs to pick up his nut sack out of her purse and walk away. The Alpha cad is only with her because he likes fucking her, so he will never really be a realistic option for her either.
Best thing you can do Bloom, is do not get involved. Just sit back and watch the shit show play itself out.
Were I in your shoes, I would throw younger, sweeter girlfriends at the Beta until one of them stuck. Mean of me….
Saracen, that is wicked and brilliant.
RPG, do it!
Lol, you guys are all great — all very good insights! I am sure all get something out of it, and how it’s possible without any of the three angles the whole thing might just implode. Alpha gets laid, beta gets to white knight, she gets to be the victim in her own mind? I hope she does not turn baby into a beta orbiter, but I could see that, sadly… Too much work and drama for me! I don’t get it, but then again I have WAY much more good stuff going on in my life to self-create problems just to have something to focus on??? I dunno. Stupid is my take, foolish. And for her two older girls watching this Jerry Springier show, a very bad example. Ak.
I didn’t think about the kids. For them, this show has got to stop.
Vixen is acting on natural, unfiltered female instincts. This is how women act in the absence of “patriarchy,” in the absence of a socio-moral system that “oppresses” them by forcing them to behave themselves and temper their tremendous sexual power. Without that influence, it leads to destruction, first of themselves and those around them, then of the society at large. Take a look around, you can see it everywhere.
Thanks, feminism!
Off topic.
Media insists London terrorists is “British”.
One month ago Barcelona terrorists was “Swedish”.
France and Belgium terrorists were “French”.
Germany terrorists are “German”.
Etc.
Girl should take the beta.
Beta should run like hell.
But he won´t. That is why he is a beta, If he would be a sygma would run like hell.
Iberian,
The terrorists are anything but terrorists.This is all getting to be a lame standing joke.
Without early correction or intervention, things still sort themselves out … it’s just a lot nastier. That goes for orbiters or terrorists. The longer you let it go on, the harsher the measures that must be used to stop it. To many say that they refuse to act out of kindness, and I’m sure that’s true, but it’s also cowardice. The earlier you act the less there is to be cowardly about and the more actual and effective sensitivity to others you truly show. Brutal can be kind. You just have to know who you are … because eventually you’re going to find out anyway.
With all due respect, Ms. Redpill, I think you have wonderful advice often, but in regards to your friend and Mr. Alpha, your advice is terrible. Any man who creates life sould feel bound to support that life. in this man’s case, he can’t seem to see the gravity of the situation, which is that there is a child who is nmot merely financially dependent upon him, but psychologically, spiritually and emotionally in need. That this man does not grasp that is a horrid sign. It does no good to point out that he didn’t want to have children or that it takes two to tango. That goes without saying. Your friend may have issues and be manipulative, but if this man doesn’t get the need to be there for his child, he probably never will. As for the beta male, he is the one who can offer the child something, although under no obligation to do so. It seems to me it would be in the best interrest of the child for her to pursue him, if she is to Perdue either of them. Now is not a time to make a point about her issues. It’s all about the kid. Better perhaps to spare the child the emotional devastation of a lukewarm parent.
Shpuld pick the alpha who is father of the child. Beta can be replaced via online dating pretty quickly. If she picks beta she will be sleeping with alpha on the side or at least pining for him.
So many girls with bf’s are posting selfies on social media everyday. They are looking for an upgrade on bf. But bf’s are clearly oblivious. Beta needs to wake up.
interesting post RPG.
As for what Ian said, there is a lot of that going around. It’s not OK. It is undermining men’s ability to put confidence in women. While women may see a short term advantage in this, it’ll work against them long term.
Again, I think that Vixen will drag this drama out as long as she can. In the end, she will blow it with both of them.
I Agree fuzziebear
Fuzzie we are in agreement once again … women like RPG’s friend will, indeed, drag the situation out until she ruins it with both of them. Alpha will run. As far as he can given the kid. And that is the fly in the ointment. Why have a kid with the Alpha if he won’t commit ? And the reason is simple: SHE WON”T COMMIT TO HIM. It ain’t Alpha’s fault. And it ain’t Beta’s fault. ITS THE GIRLS FAULT. As it usually is. When a woman is in charge of a relationship … end usually ends in disaster. FOR THE MAN. And the kids. And not so much the lady. And that is the problem in our society today … women have no accountability to anyone.
Given my experience here is how the situation will work out. 10 yrs from now the lady will still be juggling alpha and beta. She will have gained 40 lbs and aged 10 yrs. But will still have a beta … but a different one. She will have burned thru multiple betas till she got to where she is. Alpha will still be around … because of the kid. Or maybe in jail. Or broke. If he ever loses his job … his life will be destroyed because the judicial system doesn’t care … it only cares about rewarding sluts raping men. Most likely he is still around though. He is still around and hates the slut he fucked cause he was horny one night and had his life destroyed because of it. And the kid who he now hates and fears because he knows the slut will stop at nothing to destroy him and the kid is ample ammunition. So he wants to run but can’t. He hates the kid. The kid hates him and wonders why his own father can;t stand being around him. And of course he hates the slut who has been ruining his life for years and years and JUST WON”T GO THE FUCK AWAY.
So … it works for nobody. Only victim in this is the kid. Always is. Single mom’s destroy their own kids and are too stupid to know it is their own fault. If this slut had any brain at all … she’d cut it with the Alpha. Marry the beta. Raise her kid the best she can. But ….
In case anyone is interested … things are still going great for me and the new GF. Not so new anymore, if you’ve been following. We are going on vacation together next weekend. 3 days together, 24×7. Still going strong. Its women like her that give me faith in women. While rare … there are still women who are willing to act like a woman, be a woman. And its kinda funny … just damn glad I took the red pill. She is very smart and educated and even kinda blue pill. I wouldn’t say “Feminist” but every woman agrees with other women, in gender bias, … so definitely Progressive and believes in the feminist lies. I’ve been teaching her how that is nothing but lies and actually think I’ve been making ground … as I said … she’s smart. But the real interesting dynamic is in bed. In bed and really … around me … she is definitely FEMALE and plays the part. Not submissive … but submits, there is a difference. So anyway … it works and we get along great. We both have a couple of big bumps in life coming up over the next few months so will be interesting to see how that works out. Right now … I’d say probably pretty darn good. But you got to let life unfold the way that it will. And I will say one final thing … been working on getting her to unleash sexually … since day one. And I will say that its working. She is getting more and more comfortable sexually all the time. Where she is today … compared to where she was 8 months ago when we met … she’s come a long way. Never thought I’d ever consider getting married again … but with her … she’s beginning to change my mind. Maybe there are some women of value still left.
Anyway, just didn’t want to come across as a negative Nancy … things still going great with me and my girl.
Ian, thank you.
Mega,
Good to hear that things are going well. A little good news helps
Your comment reminded me that Vixen is in control of this situation. If it is messed up, it is because she wants it that way. I see your point about alpha dad and the kid. That would be sad, but the result of vixen setting the rules.
London terrorist was son of a singe mom. Media says his real name was “Adrian Russell” and he was a convert to Islam.
Hard to buy that: The guy was brown. Not British blood.
Am I the first woman to comment on this post?
I have read all the comments and among the different attitudes put forward there seems to be a consensus that Vixen is manipulative. She does seem to be guilty.
But I am not giving the men in this scenario a pass. You can only be manipulated if you allow it. Sometimes it is right to allow it because the pay off at the end appears worth it. Sometimes it is not good.
She is not manipulating the Alpha, in fact he is doing it. She is trying (having his baby) but he is not playing her game. He is not serious about marrying her if she drops the Beta, if he married her today she would drop the Beta in a heartbeat. He obviously has not offered her any sort of commitment that would give him the right to demand exclusivity. So he is stringing her along. She is simply an easy lay for him. No work just some fun.
She is manipulating the Beta. Perhaps he is allowing it because as you say he was a player himself at one time and so he probably knows what the outcome will be with the Alpha. He is just biding his time until the Alpha walks and is keeping himself first in line.
The Beta may eventually get what he wants but at the cost of knowing that she will always want the Alpha and would leave the Beta if the Alpha makes an offer.
It is the child who will pay the highest price. The Alpha has excepted that he is the father and I hope for the child’s sake he takes that more seriously than he does his relationship with Vixen.
Linny,
I scroll up and found three comments from RPG. That is it from women until you posted.
Fuzzie
Yes, RPG is a woman and I did she her comments. But I did not consider them comments as such instead I consider them to be responses to comments.
After I hit send I did wonder how long it would be before someone pointed out that I had not counted RPG as woman.
You win.
Damn, I made a spelling mistake in my last post. I must remember to proof read.
Linny,
I never get to win. This is different. As for typos, neither I nor RPG will condemn you. I know that I make a lot.
Fuzzie
Too bad there is no prize.
Not even a virtual doughnut?
I would give you a virtual doughnut but I don’t know how. So if I think about giving you a doughnut does that count. What is your favorite doughnut? I want to make sure I get my thoughts right.
Just to mess with our labels a bit; is a Beta a Male “Alpha Widow?” Hooked on an idea he can’t give up, an experience or an ideal he can’t make himself walk away from. In this case it seems that interpretation might work. Is this a small community with few social opportunities?
I wonder if there are many “Beta Players;” guys who keep spinning a bunch of plates; but it’s gals that only half want them? When I was younger, and before I had much idea what what was happening, I sort of fell into that mode because it gave me access to the more interesting women around the edges. I never spent any money doing it but, in those days, I never had any. If Vixen is such a sexpot is it possible the Beta is just using her as expensive social proof?
I don’t believe that theory but it could turn in all into a more entertaining story.
Linny,
I have simple tastes. Honey glazed would be best.
As for the original post, Vixen is going to try to string these guy along forever. It can’t happen. Either beta or alpha will drop out. At that point, she will have to accept the one still standing. In the meanwhile, this isn’t good for the kids. There is a good chance she may have one drop out and lose the other when he realizes it is for real now.
Get an imaginary room to eat your imaginary doughnuts in…
All three of these people are terrible:
Vixen is unprincipled (not a shocker).
Alpha is irresponsible, in light of the fact that a child is involved.
Beta is a tool and should be ashamed of himself.
My guess is she won’t learn until something serious/borderline catastrophic forces her to.
I know that I can’t be the only one, but I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for Vixen. She is playing games with two guys. That is doing some damage to the sexual marketplace by reducing men’s confidence in women.
I have to wonder about all the other women out here, friend zoning men and putting them in beta orbit. Men are going wake up and see how pervasive this is and say ‘to heck with this!”
Fuzzie
I have no sympathy for Vixen, none at all. But I also do not have any sympathy for the two fully grown, mature men who are allowing this to happen.
This is a story of three losers.
Linny,
I think we need a new topic. Something positive. Extolling the virtues of honey glazed doughnuts?
Fuzzie
I would rather have a French Cruller. They look like a tractor tire. Lots more surface for the honey to stick to.
My bakery does not make them which is too bad because their doughnuts are soooo much better than Timmies. Besides my bakery is only 1/2 a block away and Timmies is 3 blocks. Yes, I’m lazy and doing the walking would burn off the calories from the doughnut but calories are not a problem for me.
I would walk all that way to get one if you wanted to try one. Bears are worth the effort.
Linny,
Your effort in bringing me a pastry would be appreciated. Bears love sweet treats.
There was no bears in that video. Only unpaid actors.
There is a bear in this one. They are obviously doing this on a shoestring in Russia. I guess they couldn’t afford a Chewbacca costume.
Good points it’s only photos! I agree, You are right about Alpha and I have often counseled her the same. Beta (for lack of a better term) is for sure the better option, he just needs some red pill schooling. He could easily have her eating out of his hand w just a few attitude shifts, but when I suggested so he said, “I don’t play games.”
you are also right, the child is most input. now. Only Beta seems to get that, sadly. Between his parents? He’s a pawn. Very selfish, agreed.
If he were to get some “Red Pill Schooling,” he’d drop her in a heartbeat, because a RP-aware man will not raise another man’s child – especially in this situation, with this set of facts.
Add to that, the child had to be conceived after “Beta” put himself out there. That is a big slap in the face. He should have been gone the moment he heard she was pregnant.
This is off topic but I was reading on another blog that in England there seems to be a shift to fathers getting 50/50 custody of their children. He named a few cases but didn’t say if they were anomalies or not. He also didn’t say how big a fight it was to make these cases go the way they did. But it should give divorced fathers a bit of hope that things are changing.
I hope so.
She’s selfish for putting these games above her child and she’s lazy for expecting either man to take care of her financially. I hope they both leave her.
Linny,
I think that things are more advanced in the UK. This video is from three years ago.
50/50 custody would benefit kids by allowing them to spend time with both parents. Feminists hate it because eliminates child support payments.
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/greasing-the-skids/
Is everybody out hunting wabbits? It’s wery quiet.
So munch for my Elmer Fudd impersonation.
Well, it is the almost the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. So I don’t think I will go out hunting, instead I will just wait in ambush for the Easter bunny to come right to my house.
The Easter Bunny!!! You wouldn’t???
Just ask my kids.
Mommy ate the Easter Bunny???
“Mommy ate the Easter Bunny???”
and it was good too with onions and carrots
besides, it was only a Beta Bunny
Children all over the world have run into their room and are crying buckets in their pillow.
Fuzzie
My kids thought it was hilarious. Of course, they were in their teens so maybe that accounted for their attitude. They actually thought we should make a tradition of it.
Larry, you forgot the potatoes.
Linny, quite right. Home fries. We have not been properly introduced, let me correct that now. I am Larry. I read RPGs blog considerably but comment seldom.
Mashed potatoes with the bunny’s ears sticking out???
Arrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!! *sniff*
Fuzzie, are you sure you are not describing a tranny-rabbit crossdressing as a spud?
I think that I am talking about a mythical rabbit that brings candy and eggs to children in the spring. And somebody cooked him and ate him!!!
He could have continued to bring candy and eggs to children. That is a good thing.
Mommy cooked and ate the Easter Bunny???
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/03/30/red-pill-movie-review-pale-rider/
Larry
Nice to meet you. I am Linny as you know. I have been following RPG for a short time but do tend to get mouthy fairly often.
Fuzzie
I am pretty sure I never fed my children mythical food ever.
Eggs maybe but candy, I assume you do not have children. Take it from me candy can end up costing a lot in dental bills. So a smart parent would be out hunting the Easter bunny before he got to the house.
Linny,
I don’t have kids, but I was one for a long time. I never got much candy and I hated going to the dentist. Maybe it is all to the good?
Maybe it is good that you never fed them mythical food too? They might be living in mythical places now, having to deal with giants, elves, and dragons.
…and talking bears. 😉
We didn’t get much candy either and no basket, just 5 little piles on the coffee table. But we did get a pair of sandals, had to have something to put on our feet for dress up time.
I sort of feel sorry for the children of today. They get so very much of everything. I wonder if they feel the same excitement that we did as children?
Linny,
They are culturally deprived. We had Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner, Rocky and Bullwinkle. And yes, candy was special.
I didn’t put this part in about Alpha, he insisted very early in the pregnancy that he be granted paternity if tests confirmed it. She actually was trying to NOT allow him to have rights, and he hired a lawyer and fought for them. So he has always wanted to be a part of the child’s life. If his work situation were different, I think he would have gone for primary custody. When I talk to him, he seems to be reading the manosphere b/c some of the phrases he used were common around these parts but as far as I know not mainstream.
The more you guys say about her, the more it is opening my eyes to some stuff I have been blind to, being so close to the situation. Yikes. IRL she kinda seems like she’s just not very bright, but now I am not so sure she’s not way more devious than I realized! Ak.
That Vixen! I think she likes this, but she is tying up two men. That means that, somewhere out there, a woman is by herself. and neither guy is getting what he wants.
They all sound like losers.
I’d guess that Vixen has Borderline Personality Disorder, and that both men are “beta orbiters”.
You need to find better friends so you stop thinking that most people are like this.
Is the Beta getting laid?
Seems to me the answer to that question would help focus things a bit. My initial assumption, because you gave him the ‘beta’ label, was — of course not.
But if she is regularly sleeping with both of them — Alpha when he’s in town, but Beta the rest of the time — this soap opera is a whole lot more than what usually comes to mind with ‘beta orbiter’.
s/b ” We all muddle through, at whatever [level] our mental capacity will allow us to muddle.
Hi. At 41, your friend hit the Wall years ago (like 9 – 13). When is a product of her genes, her behavior, and her life situation. If she uses recreational chemicals/sleeps around/doesn’t eat right/exercise/control her weight, it comes sooner, of course.