abusive, addiction, battle of the sexes, captain and co-captain, codependance, controlling, dysfunction, patriarchy, red pill, strong independent woman
Along the lines of the previous “red pill truths/blue pill lies” post, I had an interesting moment the other day.
Myself and some volunteer and paid crew were setting up for the day ahead. We had hours of work to do, and not a lot of spare time to waste.
Anyway, in the midst of this somehow someone brought up a friend of a friend who used to be in a well known band, but who like many in that situation, lost it all to sex, drugs, and rock and roll living and landed himself in jail. Well he just got out of prison and is looking for work.
My friend who was working here and knows him suggested, “Wouldn’t it be perfect for him to come and help out around here? He’s so talented!”
I replied, “I don’t doubt he is talented but my current squeeze has already said, “No.”
Rather than that being the end of that, my friend and a blue pill male volunteer jumped right on it — “That’s a red flag! He’s trying to control you! Who is he to say who can and can’t be here?” they howled.
I was already annoyed because we were behind schedule, so I just said at that time, “You know what guys, we’re not having this conversation. The guy is not working here, or even coming here, end of.”
I don’t think I was too popular at that moment but just one of the many things I have learned from the red pill is to not listen to such garbage scare tactics, or to fall into those types of no win debates.
(Background, the gal is an attractive but headed for the wall 45-year-old anxiety ridden hot mess (financially and otherwise) who seems to have a crush on the musician and the volunteer is a blue pill guy friend who has a thing for hot messes, so he was likely trying to show just how great, sensitive, evolved, and non-oppressive of a guy he was!)
Later, once the successful event was over, I followed up on the conversation with both and explained my other half wasn’t trying to be controlling, he was trying to help me avoid a common weakness of mine, which is to feel bad for people and to try to save them when really they need to save themselves, just the same as I do, or any adult does.
I explained further that he felt having an unknown ex-con, recovering heroin addict around may not be the best choice for my business, or (even more impt.) my kids. There is just too much potential downside and really not all that much upside.
His were not the words of an oppressive, abusive brute who is just trying to isolate me. They are the wise words and reasoning of someone who is trying to look out for me and my kids, someone who wants to help guide and protect us from needless suffering and mistakes.
Perhaps it was the curt way I said it the first time, when I was thinking to myself, “less talk, more work, people!” but both admitted after I explained the above that it actually was sound, good advice.
And it is advice I am going to take, because the guy who gave it to me has stood the test of time. He has looked out for me. The times I have not listened to his advice, I found out later that he had been right. The guy is one of the smartest people I have ever met. Why would I *NOT* listen to him?
Actually, it’s the first relationship in my life where I have had someone really like me for who I am (even my imperfections) and it is the least drama, least controlling, least problem relationship I have ever had! Amen! Finally!
They may not get it, but he’s my chosen Captain and I am happy to take his direction because I know he’s got this! Anyone who thinks I am going to side with them against the Captain is going to have to walk the plank, because around here, mutiny is not an option!
What do you think? Please share in the comments.
The red flag was for the worker who tried to guilt you into hiring this questionable guy. I have heard of that tactic used by big ticket salesmen to make wives sign on the dotted line. Then, the husband and wife are on the hook for a big ticket item and he didn’t have any input. Not a good idea.
Larry G said:
It’s what Captains do, protect their mates.
A Dad said:
A lot of women these days get really angry when their man offers his opinion rather than just listening and only offering an opinion when asked for one. My wife got that way as she became more blue-pill. I think that women should talk to other women in most cases where they don’t want a response.
I think it’s a bunch of crap in many cases, but certainly men may need to be better listeners at times. I’ve not figured it all out.
A man would tell his buddy that he’s doing something idiotic, and neither of them would be angry about it. In fact, that’s why they talk about it. It doesn’t mean that he has to take the advice. They wake up the next day without any resentment to their buddy. My best friends will be in my life a lot longer than my ex-wife will be at this point. One already has a head-start by a more than 10-15 years. After a while you begin to really know who has your back or doesn’t. One of my buddies has been engaging in some stupid behavior in order to deal with his frivorce pain, and I told him that it was a bad decision. We debated it. Guess what? Today he tells me that it was a mistake after having some conversations with some other women he was getting close to. He just isn’t ready yet and realizes that someone is going to get hurt.
Obviously a guy can’t always use the exact same type of communication with his girlfriend or wife. For instance, I would never say “That’s stupid thing you are doing, dumbass!” like I’d say to my buddies.
Your boyfriend is arguably one of the most important people in your life. I think it’s respectable that he would look out for your best interests, even if his suggestions may not be right. Ultimately, it’s up to you to decide if you made the right choice in the matter. It is kinda creepy that the other people are trying to convince you into believing that he’s trying to control you, but I’m not entirely surprised.
It’s a complicated subject and a lot of people have strong opinions about it.
It may be overly simplistic, but I am getting the impression that your wife lost respect for you before all the trouble started. This does seem to be pretty common, and please don’t take it personally. Maybe it will serve as an early warning to husbands?
A Dad said:
No offense taken. I’m still trying to figure it all out, myself. That’s part of why I’m here. I’d say though that the trouble was always there in the respect that she was already pretty damaged and it ultimately beat me up as well (I’ve touched on it in other posts), there was a lot of resentment and depression, and things went downhill from there. It wasn’t something that just happened overnight. It took several years. I would say that there was a lot more to it than just respect.
FYI: The comment about “women want a guy to listen” is a pretty common topic out there for a red/blue debate item. People can’t seem to accept the differences in how men and women communicate though.
You may never get it figured out. However, there may come a time when it won’t matter.
As for communication, women do expect men to read minds. That doesn’t fly.
Alan Kardec said:
Bear: “women do expect men to read minds.”
You are so right. It’s just laziness on their part, however, if you could read their mind they wouldn’t have to go to the trouble to tell you. The mind reading thing usually shows up when it’s something they don’t have the wherewithal to say straight out.
Dad: “The comment about “women want a guy to listen” is a pretty common topic out there for a red/blue debate item. People can’t seem to accept the differences in how men and women communicate though.”
A man giving constructive advice about what to do, rather than just listening, is what he is FOR. It’s the highest thing he has to offer. For a woman, listening and caring may be the highest thing she has to offer.
Each has a different job in life.
Bear Again: “I am getting the impression that your wife lost respect for you before all the trouble started.”
I had a female employee (I cannot even imagine what it would have been like to be in a relationship with her!) who one day realized that she knew more about her area of professional responsibility than I, the boss, did. Instant disrespect. Out of control bitchiness. Lot’s of behavior. First, I tried to explain that her knowing more than I did was why she had a job in the first place … if I had to know it all, I wouldn’t need HER. Before too long, I had to let her go … enough of that kind of attitude.
We stayed in touch, however, and somewhat later on she seemed to steady out quite a bit. I suspect that a lot of it was because at the time of her bitch-fits she was married to a real dweeb. A very immature guy she didn’t respect one iota. The steadiness came after a divorce and her remarrying an actual MAN, easily ten years her senior who had spent a good deal of time riding herd on a pair of teen age boys of the approximate maturity level of husband number one. The maintenance level, for everyone dealing with her, dropped precipitously.
In the years since I was a kid it has become very unfashionable for women to be involved with men much older then they are. Though the sex with a younger guy may be better, or at least more of an ego boost, I rarely see the sort of solid relationships that I did in those days. It was a time when many men knew how to be men, but they also had some years to practice being men. The women were married before they had much experience in how to wind a guy up and by the time they were married they guys were more immune.
Eduardo the Magnificent said:
“He’s controlling” and “he’s abusive” is woman-speak for “he’s a big meany who won’t just let her do whatever the fuck she wants.” Basically, he won’t let you behave like a bratty four year-old. 100/100 these people have no discipline themselves and never discipline the kids.
Spawny Get said:
Good to hear some good news, Bloom. The partner bit, obviously.
I’d be hesitant to let an ex con in my house as well, even if he was famous. You never know what people’s intentions are. So my reply would have been, “I don’t think that’s a good idea, and my husband agrees.”
SFC Ton said:
A man gets much more ass by being an oppressive insensitive caveman then any sensitive new age chick…. I mean guy
Artisanal Toad said:
RPG, it sounds to me like you beat around the bush and did everything you could, rather than just say “My man said no. End of discussion.” Let them squawk all they want. Your proper response is “In our relationship, ultimately, my place is naked, on my knees in front of him.”
If “naked on your knees” isn’t your desired place in that relationship, ditch him and keep looking. Your best defense (as a woman) to anything untoward happening is to be so attracted to him that you can’t stand it.
RPG, first time you’ve really spilled your guts about your guy. Kinda reminds me of my relationship with my GF. And its pretty nice to actually find someone who has their shit together … especially when you’d pretty much given up hope. Thanks for sharing.
A Dad said:
Fuzzie, I read the link above, that RPG posted; “Follow, Don’t Lead”. My wife was basically one of the two mothers that RPG mentioned were resentful about being a stay at home mom. It’s funny, because that’s what she wanted more than anything else and then finally got it. Then she was on to the next goal in life. “Don’t need a man anymore!”
Yeah, it’s more complicated than that, but even when a person has everything that they need, sometimes it’s never enough. Those ladies don’t understand how their denial of affection and attempts to be manipulative only serve to nuke their marriage. This is far more common than most people can see. It’s a lesson I’ve learned the hard way, and you can be damn sure I’ll never settle on a woman unless she “gets it”.
I have heard of this concept. They are referred to as “feminist merit badges”. I have no idea how to combat this as it seems to be baked into the culture.
Having said that, there is an awful lot that has to be overcome that is far beyond a man’s control.
dad, mtgowhorseman’s wife did similar, and he was able to turn things around but of course it changed how he saw her and their marriage. Perhaps he could share how he handled that? I see this in stay at home moms a lot, unfortunately. The one mentioned in the post went to therapy and her doctor put her on Wellbutrin. She’s now 25 pounds lighter and has a whole different attitude. She realized she was unhappy w herself but was projecting that onto her husband. She’s still working on it but thank Goodness she’s doing much better these days!
I would be happy to take you to meet the hottie Ukrainian doctor! We could tell her you’re my piece on the side!
All joking aside she was great, she took so much time answering our questions and carefully going over his history. Rare to find a doc willing to take that kind of time these days
A Dad said:
Hottie Ukrainian doctor!? Piece on the side? You crack me up. 😉
All seriousness that I’m okay with hottie doctors.
Lol Dad, that comment about the hottie Dr. was directed at Ton, but I suppose I could say you are my OTHER piece on the side, lol! (My 76 year old friend told her I am his wife! 30+ years younger!)
A Dad said:
That’s what was so funny. The comment seemed so ambiguous. 😉
Still okay with hottie Ukrainian doctors though!
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I have a work friend, a guy, who is having some marriage problems. Among other things, apparently his wife gets really upset when he tries to give her any kind of advice, even about things he knows much more about than she does.
I saw this myself when we were on a business trip in another city and his wife came out to join him for a weekend. He knew that city well from past trips, and was excitedly telling the wife (and me as well) about some good things to do there. She basically shut him down and stated what she wanted to do.
That would hurt for anyone–would certainly hurt if someone acted that way to me–and I think probably even more painful for a man than for a woman.
I think if I were a guy and was wife hunting, I’d be on the lookout for this kind of disrespect of well-intended advice and it would be a no go.
It’s great to hear that you respect your man. And even if Mr. Blue were right, you could’ve easily told him that you do whatever you want. I agree with fwbear – the guy was aiming to guilt you, which is exactly the “side” that he claims to be against. Kudos and respect for your decision.
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