In a comment, Mtgowhorseman says:
Rpg
To help women you need to get this message out.
A brilliant comment from Dalrock’s. It is THE ONLY ADVICE women need.
“Word for women who lurk: there is such a thing as “fitness testing to destruction”. You can be Little Miss Bossy long enough, loud enough, and mean enough that he just doesn’t want to be around any more. Period. The juice is not worth the squeeze. He’d done, all done with you.
That doesn’t have to mean divorce. It can just mean he checks out from the marriage, permanently. His attention is never on her, beyond the absolute minimum, he provides in a mechanical fashion as for a pet or an invalid, and spends as little time with her as possible. If you know what to look for, you can see couples like this in many, places, including churches.There is a cure but it is never applied: it requires the woman to humble herself, and far too many women prize their pride above everything else. Yes, churchgoers, everything else. To paraphrase Milton, there are women who would rather reign in a Hell of their own making than submit and gain a slice of paradise.
Don’t fool yourself with your female “always one more chance” adaptability. Women don’t close doors quite the way men do. The last minute of Gone with the Wind is worth watching, because Rhett ain’t coming back, ever. He has spoken.”
Truer words have not been said, and I have seen it in real life many times. The guy may be there physically, but emotionally he’s checked out. She’s cried wolf one too many times, and he’s gone.
Society tells women today that men want sassy, brassy, bossy women. Actually, men don’t really like that. That doesn’t have to mean women need to be doormats, but there’s often a better and a worse way to go about things.
What many men don’t realize about fitness testing, is that society has also taught them the wrong message, that the way to respond to fitness testing is to give in. “If momma ain’t happy, nobody’s happy” or “happy wife, happy life.” Such a response feeds the cycle, him submitting is not what she wants. Sometimes what women doing this really need, is for him to say, “Enough!” (Men in this situation should read this great advice here.)
However, ladies, there is a beauty also in not going there, and that is a choice you can make. Perhaps you know such a woman? Men are drawn to her, naturally wanting to please and dote on her? Not because she demands it, but because ever so sweetly and truly she doesn’t. Men can hardly wait to get home to such a woman, the opposite is true for the cranky, quarrelsome one.
Let those who have ears hear.
What do you think? Please share in the comments.
That’s good advice for women. Good advice for men is to learn how to deal with shit tests and pass them. Put her in her place and keep her there. She’ll be happier. Test her occasionally and if she fails very emphatically let her know she failed and she needs to improve.
The reference to Rhett was a good one because he was no beta schmuck. Scarlett, no matter how good she looked, should have been able to accept that and follow his lead but she didn’t. She was too much in love with the attention she got from multiple men who were competing for her. But once Rhett decided that she wasn’t worth it, he was done with her. He no longer gave a damn.
The real problem is not that women shit-test men or that men don’t know how to deal with shit tests. The problem is the structure of enforced monogamy. The structure itself is what is causing these problems on the women’s side of things. Women hate the idea of polygyny because they love their locked down monopoly on their man. Men hate the idea of polygyny because about 90% of them would love the idea but they are convinced that they couldn’t do it because they aren’t an “apex alpha”.
Monogamy is monopoly for the women and they have no motivation to give their husband their best performance because the threat of competition from other women has been taken away. If the *possibility* of him moving another woman into the house/marriage existed, she would view her husband in a whole different light and that competition would provide accountability for her job performance.
Setting aside all the BS about morality and the churchian arguments about the monogamy doctrine they can’t find in the Bible, the structure of rigid monogamy hurts women and damages marriages because it causes the women to be bored. Give the man a choice and if she keeps him monogamous with her then she’s accomplished something. If he has a choice and she refuses to do her job…. and he takes another wife… that’s a public shaming of the first magnitude. Women can’t stand being shamed and will avoid it at all costs.
I understand all the princess fairy tales of the “one true love” and oneitis, but the vast majority of women settle for a man they didn’t really want. They wanted one off the top shelf but didn’t have what it took to attract one, so they settled for what they could get. Those seeds will grow and yield bitter fruit after she gets bored, but if one injects a bit of female competition into that equation (just the possibility means all he has to do is look at other women and she starts thinking about what she should be doing) and she becomes proud of what she has. He is the prize she won and she has to keep. Complete change of dynamic.
I can state factually from experience that when women have some competition the shit testing is minimal. Loyalty testing increases, but that’s a different deal.
Society tells women today that men want sassy, brassy, bossy women.
Maybe they when in the looking for a ONS. But then again, maybe not
The real problem is not that women shit-test men or that men don’t know how to deal with shit tests.
Significant issues both they are
Relevant this is
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/smartphones-ruin-everything/
1. Mrs. Lance likes Red Pill Girl’s blog. Specifically, this post.
2. Insofar as too much shit testing, I have seen it’s effect on my, now thirty year old, single daughter’s love life. She lost two suitors because, according to her, one was never around when she wanted him, the other was always around when she didn’t.
My wife, in our early courting days, liked to play the “I have a life of my own and you just have to understand” game. I resolved at one point to end the relationship if things didn’t change and I let her know as much.
I guess I was convincing, because here we are Thirty-one years later with over a dozen children under our belt. (Though several didn’t make it to birth I still count them; it just doesn’t seem right to leave them out of the total.)
I’ve often wondered if coming from a severely dysfunctional broken home didn’t make me a bit more attractive to women. As I recall, many woman, though I didn’t recognize this then, were giving me IOI’s. Both married and single.(humble bragging?) I ignored nearly all of them, except for the one I married. I wanted that one with all my heart, which made it difficult to give her the “ultimatum”. She accepted obviously, and though the fitness testing from her didn’t stop completely, it did get significantly reduced.
So I agree, there is such a thing as too much testing. It cost my daughter two suitors and almost cost my wife one more. Though I’m glad the other guys before me gave up, they did pave a road that made my success more assured.
Ever notice how often men use their pimp hand in older movies? Solves all such issues
Insofar as too much shit testing, I have seen it’s effect on my, now thirty year old, single daughter’s love life. She lost two suitors because, according to her, one was never around when she wanted him, the other was always around when she didn’t.
So how shit testing played into this it did?
Give examples of pimp hand in older movies the Ton should
@Yoda.
She was unreasonably demanding. I believe their failure to accommodate her immediate desires in this area was a test to determine if they would put her desires above their own needs. I realize calling them shit tests, my have been a misapplication of the term. A shit test, as I understand, is what a woman administers when she wants to see if a man is willing to say no to her demands.
I believe she actually wanted them to submit to her desires.
I believe their failure to accommodate her immediate desires in this area was a test to determine if they would put her desires above their own needs. I realize calling them shit tests, my have been a misapplication of the term.
Perhaps “steroidal shit tests” call them we should
Perhaps “steroidal shit tests” call them we should
Its sort of like a game of “do what I want for real, until I don’t really want it you to do it.”
Of our job would be to convince them we have mind reading abilities and can provide or not provide, what they do or don’t want, when they do or don’t want it before they even know it themselves.
Seem’s achievable. 🙂
Roman Lance
To paraphrase Rhett, “Why should we give a damn?”
If you don’t know what you want, and I am mansplaining if I figure it out for you, why should I go get what you want?
Grabbing a beer and watching the game is easier and more satisfying and quieter (as Scarlett would be left behind).
Of our job would be to convince them we have mind reading abilities
Do this a Jedi can
If you ask nicely and clearly I would be happy to get anything in the world for the simple, nice girl.
Can lead to do, requires it not.
<iGrabbing a beer and watching the game is easier and more satisfying and quieter
I have discovered, in my later years, that doing less and making unreasonable demands has produced more beneficial results then what I did in my early years. That doing all the things a blue pill guy is suppose to do.
Fix the house, fix the car, build bench seats, remodel the kitchen, run to this place and that place, be entertaining, be there for her, homeschool the children, be a good neighbor, be the attack dog and piss off the neighbors, nurse the children when they are sick, nurse the wife when she is sick, do the go gurrll thing when she gets a promotion, make sure everybody is properly Catholic, set down the rules, enforce the rules, get hated for it but don’t let it bother you, listen to neighbors piss about how overprotective you are just before they say, “But hey could you watch my kids for free”.
The list was never ending.
I gave all that crap up years ago. Now I keep things simple.
I say, “Honey, if you want something get it. I’m not getting it for you.”
“If you want to go somewhere, enjoy the trip I’m staying home.”
“if you want to eat, make dinner or grab one of the teenagers, I’m weary of it all”
Interestingly enough, she has never been more devoted to attending and assessing my needs than she currently is.
On shit tests:
First the woman has to have some attraction for the man. If there is no attraction she won’t bother to shit test him, she’ll blow him off or ignore him. The shit tests are to determine whether he is fit to rule over her. By passing the shit tests the man is assuring her that he has what it takes. That all sounds pretty simple and it actually is. However…
The problem consists of three elements:
The legal system has effectively criminalized masculine dominance
The education system kills the masculinity of boys and feminizes them
The social environment elevates women and demonizes men for being men.
Hypergamy doesn’t care, so the women are left with a smaller and smaller pool of “eligible” men from which to choose, very few of who display any masculine dominance. Because women perceive men they are somewhat attracted to as not being optimal, they shit-test the hell out of them. Because the men don’t have a clue, they fail the tests and eventually both the men and women are disgusted.
The women are disgusted with the men and are even more willing to believe the lies of feminism, which is a death-spiral. As the quality of women gets worse, men check out even more, which is characterized by the MGTOW and other cargo cults.
i try to teach my girls these things. in our home, we’re either on Team Husband, or we’re out. he’s dumped and kicked out before, and he would have no problem doing it again. that’s not to say he’s an ogre or mean or unrelenting at all. it simply means there’s a firm line, and it’s fairly well defined.
my Oldest is 19 and she often says, “I like living here.” what she means is she’s willing to concede her desires and will for Team Husband b/c she knows the cost and the benefits.
Toad brings up some good points. There is something else. The test usually come in about the third month of the relationship, by which time, the boy has emotionally attached. So she gives hive him a test in which there is no way to succeed if he cares about her. It would seem natural for men that don’t care to ace these tests. There is another possibility. He has seen enough of these to take it as his cue to leave. Either way, girl loses.
One of the things that we may have overlooked is that any woman resorting to shit tests is setting up her man to fail so that she can find another without remorse. There is a lot of this going around and while it should stop with marriage, it doesn’t. It seems that all men have left is “Dread” game, which is a last resort. All this takes commitment and throws it right out the window.
@fuzzie, it’s important to remember relationships can be messy. People make mistakes. Things happen. Not to say constant shit tests are ok, for sure, but they will probably happen at some point, even in the best of relationships. However, mature thinking people can be aware and make choices NOT to behave this way, or at least try their best. It will likely happen, but hopefully not too often and not too much. Perfection would be nice, but its unrealistic. Even our dear Liz (who we all miss!) probably shit tests here and there. As lovable as she is! 🙂 however, I doubt she does so constantly, or even close to. It’s good for women to be aware of it and to do her best to control it!
RPG,
It is the cynic in me. We should hope that women would be grown up enough to realize that good husbands and fathers do not grow on trees. Still, it is not men that are doing this. It is beyond our direct control.
Value somethings above her, most especially on that list is your pride/ standing as a man among men, and shit test whither and die.
That also applies with children….. and women are basically children
Don’t be this woman:
Newark, NJ in the background if anyone wondered.
Lance: “I realize calling them shit tests, my have been a misapplication of the term. A shit test, as I understand, is what a woman administers when she wants to see if a man is willing to say no to her demands. I believe she actually wanted them to submit to her desires.”
No matter which version of the test it is, I suspect that the situation is made worse by the laziness and narcissism we see in many women when they want a man to “read their mind.” Read my mind: do this thing before I ask. Read my mind: don’t make me have to ask an awkward question or say something where I risk seeming foolish or “bad.” This trend gets magnified when they add: IF YOU WERE THE RIGHT MAN, you would do/say/feel (fill in the blank) before I brought it to your attention.
As a younger, and somehow wiser, man I was very good at saying things like: “You know I love you, so get over it,” and then going back to doing whatever I was doing. Somewhere along the line (when the relationships got more serious) I forgot that tactic and had to relearn it the hard way. The best approach to a test is one where you don’t have to think too much about your response … the woman’s test comes up unconsciously (ie, at the speed of light) and so the faster you can establish your boundary the better.
You gotta keep you cool (that’s usually the fundamental of the test), so you gotta keep it simple and sort of universal.
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/why-don’t-men-hate-being-single-as-much-as-women-do/
”
When a man hangs out with another man, he’ll watch sports, play poker, talk trash, grab a few drinks, and maybe talk about whether he’s hooking up. This takes care of most of a man’s basic needs – for companionship, for laughs, for fun.
….
There are a decent number of men out there who don’t really desire the same kind of relationship as you do. Their needs are met by their male friendships and their careers and the last thing they want to do is hold your purse when shopping at Nordstrom.
You can tell who these men are because when they’re not with you, you don’t exist. They’ll call you once a week to hook up and that’s all. These guys play on their terms, not yours and are a total waste of time to any woman trying to forge something real and lasting. It’s like trying to teach a fish to ride a bicycle.
”
In short ladies WE DONT NEED YOU.
And you dont do much to make us WANT you
And these are not the asshole PUAs that jump to mind.
These are the solid average joes with good jobs and a house who are tired of the game.
There is likely 10 checked out guys for every pua.
GLA, I couldn’t listen to that gal past two minutes, I doubt any man is going to find that attitude “wife material” either. And zero self introspection! Not good!
I get it bear, all I was trying to say is occasional shit tests should be expected as par for the course, but also dealt with accordingly as guys here suggest rather than indulged. Constant shit tests, that’s another issue and do not reflect well upon the woman’s suitability for a serious LTR or more. Women can and should reign the harping in if they desire a relationship that’s happy and good.
RPG,
I guess you really hit a nerve with this post. A lot of it may stem from there being so many women out there that are so insecure that, in their need to control all that is around them, wreck their own relationships. The problem with shit tests is that they are designed to weed out men who care.
https://tonsplace.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/why-are-single-men-happier-then-single-women/
No woman alive wants just a normal guy
No woman alive wants just a normal guy
Hypergamy it is
If a woman isn’t shit testing there’s a problem. A hot test is essentially kicking the tires scratching the paint looking fobthr beta beneath.
A real alpha won’t GAF. He’s been there done that and finds them amusing. In fact over time shit tests become more amusing in general. It’s only after repeated failure that they are harpy like.
What I think RPG is getting to is bending to your mans frame. Accepting of his life’s mission. You can be the nicest girl there is but if your aren’t in his frame. Supportive and accepting of his mission you’re only doing part of the job.
RPG: “I couldn’t listen to that gal past two minutes”
It’s that Eastern accent. Having grown up in PA and left 30+ years ago I have come to the conclusion that those guys have a decidedly unattractive accent. It’s like they’re trying to talk around a wad of peanut butter permanently stuck in the back or their throat.
So glad I married a mid-west country girl.
Also, east coast girls tend to have unrealistic expectations from guys. Seriously, who would give this girl her granite counter tops, and stay at home ease of life, given her “Is that so much to expect” poysunalitee.
I had seen her years before. This time, I couldn’t last very long. Women are headed for trouble, because men are losing patience with that.
It’s all in the Book!
Proverbs 21:9 – it is better to live alone in the corner of an attic, than with a quarrelsome wife in a lovely home.
The Truth never changes.
RPG,
There is no advice on how to deal with the quarrelsome wife in there. Just warnings about how she can make life hell.
Interesting Fuzzie, the way I read it, the advice is to either never marry such a woman or to leave if you do, even if you have to live in an attic! Aka MGTOW.
@fuzzie: “There is no advice on how to deal with …”
Proverbs 21:9 DOES give advice on how to deal with this … it say “get thee to an attic”.
Maybe I should have asked for “practical” advice?
Mgtow is practical advice, Fuzzie! Is it not?
No That isn’t necessarily MGTOW. There’s been a lot of discussion about it lately.
Simply put a MGTOW is tired of women in general and just doesn’t desire a relationship with them. He can get them so he’s alpha but he’s tired of the race.
But married Red Pill has tools to deal with a shrew like this. Even still the real question is would an alpha bother? Why would he when he can get a woman who does require such work. Some alphas like the challenge I guess.
The bottom line. If you’re a beta in a relationship like this your path is clear. Improve yourself. Then you can make your choice. She will come or she will not.