Today I saw a meme that said:
Girls seek attention
Women seek respect
Simple but yet so profound.
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19 Saturday Aug 2017
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Hmmm…interesting. I wonder if the feminazi’s would like to see this changed to:
Boy’s give girls attention
Men give women respect
Respect women, STOP the Patriarchy!
Yea, lotta room for brow beating with that one.
But I do see your point. It’s good you are at least willing to call out women’s behavior.
I can see a two picture meme with an elegant woman on one side, and a slutty woman on the other with the words superimposed over it.
Point of clarification:
The words I envision being superimposed on a meme are the ones in your original content, not the ones I wrote.
Unfortunately Women are rarely respected by either the general society or their own men.
Have you seen most of the women out there today. What kind of respect are they deserving of?
They are Selfish, “empowered”, full of “Mother F@cking Girl Power”, immodest, vulgar, etc..
I take women as they come give respect as its merited, but I’m all out of pedestals.
The problem that I have with many people is that they demand respect without actually earning it. Nobody just gets respect because they want it.
It’s partially a generational thing as we bring about more Facebook narcissists that feel as though everyone owes them something just for existing.
Silly meme full of you go girrrrl!!!!! power none sense, tottaly ignoring the alpha fucks beta bucks equation
All women are girls. They all want attention from alphas. Betas are to respect them from afar but all women get giddy as a school girl when they receive the attention from an alpha
I agree with Ton on this, “all women get giddy as a school girl when they receive the attention from an alpha”
It’s funny to watch them old wimminz blush when some stud muffin gives them attention. Especially when the perceived alpha piles on the compliments.
The way I read it, girls seeking attention was a negative, women seeking respect (which is earned) a positive. I do feel like all the gals I know of any age who are social media addicts are very immature, perpetual 14-year-old girls. In general our culture seems to encourage women to remain mentally in the “maiden” stage and not grow past that to the “woman” stage, much less the “matron” stage.
Perhaps “Ladies seek respect” read it should
Yeah but you’re a girl, so you only get 1/3 of an opinion
Ladies say they want respect because respect what men thrive on and they want a man they can respect.
It’s that whole projection deal.
RPG, the most radical changes I saw in my ex-wife were after she became a social media addict. The constant need for validation really consumed her, and warped her into something terrible when she began to obtain it.
It’s exactly as you stated. She basically regressed into being a teenager. Part of me has a some level of satisfaction now that she is on her own and has to work her ass off instead of playing all day, so her metaphorical “fountain of youth” was rather short-lived.
She was seeking constant attention, yet wanted to demand respect that she’d never actually earned.
Reminds me of how I used to reply to some singles ads on CL awhile back. These women are so stupid and entitled … its really hard to believe. They post an Ad and don’t even say how old they are, or how tall they are, or how much they weigh. The refuse to provide photos of what THEY look like and then demand that men send them pics … and they provide a whole list of requirements that men have to meet … in order to be “considered” … some of these stupid cunts even call it an “application” men get to apply. Seriously their ad consisted of “I HAVE A VAGINA … MEN LINE UP TO KISS MY ASS”.
I’d reply with a snarky response along the lines of “Well, since you refused to provide any info about what you looked like, I’ll assume you’re another FATTY”. Or “Jesus, that’s some entitlement there. Sorry I didn’t buy it. Know what you are entitled to … for just having a Vagina ? The same thing I am entitled to for having a Penis. And that would be NOTHING. You are entitled to NOTHING. Want to knock off the entitlement and start over ?”
It was absolutely hysterical, most of the time I didn’t get a response … because so many of the Ads are fake … but every once in awhile I’d get a response and these chicks would go absolutely bat shit crazy. Funny as hell, calling them a FATTY for refusing to say anything about what they looked like … usually set them off. Most of these chicks are short, fat, stupid, tatted out, broke single moms. And they ACTUALLY THINK that tall, good looking men, with money and a career WANT THEM. They really think that way … they got a Vagina and men are supposed to line up and kiss their ass and give them shit and do what they want. They don’t have to do anything … I know it sounds insane BUT THEY REALLY THINK THAT WAY.
That was a couple of years ago, but that was when I started to figure out that most women in our society today are mentally ill. They have no clue how the world works and are completely brainwashed. Feminism has really done a number on women. If it wasn’t for sex I think most men would avoid them completely.
True, re projection. Women do want a man they can respect. And at one time, having qualities like being soft spoken, and gentle, and polite were traits women with sense tried to have. It’s been painted by feminism as “weakness” but I have seen time and again in real life how men respond very favorably to such qualities. Its like catnip, brings out the chivalry and noble male motives. They don’t aim to oppress such women, more like serve them. But women today don’t get that concept at all.
So maybe it’s not so much respect as respectable?
What feminism wanted was for men to dutifully serve while women did whatever they wanted. Doesn’t work that way! Today many men would never even think of “serving” a woman, and I can completely see why. There’s a dynamic between the genders that works REALLY well when it’s working, but it’s all practically taboo to discuss anymore.
Ladies, the servant can be the master 😉
RPG, I think it’s more along the lines of wanting to be considered “equal” in all respects. Things don’t work that way. Most women will never be as strong, fast, or make as much money as most self-sufficient men (mainly due to career choices), yet they want to claim to be “equal”. This is not the same thing as equal rights. Now we live in a time where it’s practically a sin to point out gender differences because it undermines the perception of equality.
It also ties a lot into your previous comments about having a “captain”. A ship can only have one captain. It infuriates many modern women to let their men lead, and if they do it makes them believe that he “doesn’t respect me”. But if he does let her lead, she never respects him. It’s a catch-22. And even if a man does value his woman when she loves and respects him, and he leads, outside influence will try to tell her that she’s being treated as inferior. The concept is pretty stupid because I don’t go to my boss and say: “I don’t think that you respect me, nor do you treat me as an equal”. That’s idiotic. I might voice an occasional opinion in order to helps improve operations but it’s not up to me to make some operational decisions, so you go with the flow and get your work done. My work / opinion is valued, even if it’s not my ultimate decision beyond getting my part of the job done.
A man will not respect anyone who does not earn the respect. Women don’t seem to understand that concept because they are not taught the same level of honesty, accountability, teamwork, and hard work. I could say NAWALT, as we we know that there are exceptions, but the modern bad examples tend to outnumber the good.
LOL The Girls and I use to troll ladies doing internet dating. Man does that whole scene tend to bring out the worse in women. It isn’t for men without thick skin yet at the same time it’s mostly men with thin skin who do the internet dating deal
…………
Femininity is a powerful weapon. Few years back when I was PMC’ing we had to escort these hippie bitches around. Good money to keep these Canadian chicks safe while they try to save the world by being nice to some men who wouldn’t think twice about gang raping them. One of them was an older gal, maybe mid 40’s who had charm and class oozing out her ass. Objectively the younger women were hotter; the boys on my crew were head over heels for the older dame with femininity
There were a couple of other interesting things I learned from responding to those ads. One is this. I’d get responses along “Its my Ad, and I can put it in what I want and if I don’t want to say what I look like … then I don’t have too.”. So I’d respond with … “so you really think a REAL guy is going to respond when he doesn’t know your Age ? Doesn’t know your Height so you could be a midget or 3 inches taller than him? Doesn’t know what you weigh … so you could weigh 400 lbs ? And you think a REAL man is going to send you his picture … when he knows nothing ?”.
And eventually it became clear. There are lots of bots and scammers and fakes that respond to Ads on CL. Most of the Personal Ad traffic is fake, really … on both sides. What I learned … is that these chicks did not even care if a real person was on the other side of the message. They posted messages wanting their inbox to blow up. SEE ALL THESE MEN WANT ME !!! The ads are fake and they likely don’t even read them. All they want is the ego validation. As “A Dad” said above … they are addicted to social media and the instant gratification it offers … THEY DON”T EVEN CARE IF ITS REAL. As I said, a short, fat, tatted out whore, different kids by different daddies, broke, no job … BUT THOUSANDS OF MEN FIND ME SEXY AND DESIRABLE !!! All from an Ad that said NOTHING about what she looked like or what she had to offer men. NOTHING.
I would say its sad and pathetic. But its worse than that. First, they get away with it. THEY GET AWAY WITH IT. Obviously from their reaction … I was the ONLY ONE CALLING THEM OUT FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR. And it was so rare … they just couldn’t believe if. Nobody in their entire lives had ever called them out on anything … SO HOW DARE I ASK FOR A PHOTO BEFORE SENDING ONE !!!! HOW DARE THAT I POINT OUT THAT IF SHE WEIGHS MORE THAN I DO, THEN I”M PROBABLY NOT INTERESTED.
Yeah, that’s the really sad part. These women had completely flushed their lives down the the toilet and NOBODY EVER TOLD THEM THEY WERE DOING ANYTHING WRONG.
Haha … I’m remembering some of the games I used to play with the morons now.
“Hi, could you please send me your Age so I can decide if I’m interested. If you’re a teenager … I’m probably too old for you. And if you are older than me … then I’m probably not interested either unless you are skinny and attractive. And, yes, I already know how old I am … I would like to know how old you are. Thanks”
“Could you send me your Ht and Wt ? I prefer dating girls a little smaller than me … and I already know how tall I am. And I prefer a girl a bit smaller than me too, most guys do. And most women prefer a guy a bit bigger than them too, I think. Oh, and I already know how much I weigh. I hope you don’t weigh more than me. If you’re obese … sorry but I’m not interested”
“Could you please send me a picture so I can see what you look like. I know you asked but I’m not sending one first. Why would I do that when I don’t even know if I’m interested. And I’d like to know your age. No, I don’t care what age range you are looking for. And frankly I thought your comment about “applying” was very disrespectful towards men. Know who gets to decide who I want to date ? I do. Not you. So please provide the missing information so I can decide if I’m interested. Thanks”
Haha … responses like those … just sent women over the edge … and they came completely unglued.
Dang … I am glad that I don’t have to play those stupid games anymore.
There are so many way to show respect, or the opposite…and too many people especially women it seems do the opposite.
I think I mentioned by work friend who is having problems with his marriage. Over the time that we’ve been friends, he’s recommended several books & videos that he thought I would like, I’ve tried most of them and usually though not always I have liked them.
The other day we were talking about a book we both liked, and he mentioned that he USED to suggest books and videos to his wife, but she almost never even bothered to try them. (When they watch videos together, she wants to choose)….he was saying how nice it is to interact with a woman who actually values his opinions.
It would hurt ME to be disregarded in the way he is being, and I think it’s probably even more painful for a guy.
“all women get giddy as a school girl when they receive the attention from an alpha”
haha … forgot about this one … it was classic. I don’t think i ever got a single chick to respond to this one.
“Could you please provide your age, height, weight, and a nice recent photo ? Can’t believe you’d actually post an Ad and not provide that info. Especially with all the requirements you put on men, must be this, must be that, etc. Would you ever put an Ad in Autos for Sale and refuse to provide the make, model, condition, and mileage of the car ? Would you really expect buyers of your car to be interested if you didn’t provide a photo of what the car looked like ? And if you are trying to get someone to buy your car … who puts requirements on who can buy it ? That’s just stupid. Frankly if you said I will only sell my car to White, Jewish, Married, Women … most people would find that offensive … EVEN IF THEY MET THAT CRITERIA. Frankly, don’t know why I’m replying at all. Guess I’m hoping to win the lottery or something and find that you are actually skinny and attractive because so many women are overweight. Guess that’s why I’m asking for your height and weight, so I can tell if you are one of these pigs.”
Haha … I loved the bit about trying to sell a car …
She basically regressed into being a teenager.
Dad write a post about this he should
When women use the word “respect” it’s a code word.
The operative issue is shame. Women absolutely do not want to be shamed, but they all want attention. They want the alpha fux, they need the beta bux, but they don’t want to be shamed for their behavior.
Thus…
“Can I be your cum-guzzling, bedwrecking little slut tonight and still have you respect me in the morning?”
Respect is earned; it cannot be demanded. It’s also a two-way street. Someone cannot expect respect but refuse to give it to others (assuming others have earned it). If someone does not respect me, then I don’t have to stick around. I want to listen to others and consider their opinions and input, but if they refuse to reciprocate, then forget about it.
Mega, I don’t understand why anyone would waste their time with online dating. The way you describe it, it sounds like a wasteland.
Of course women want attention, right along with girls. The issue about respect is a problem. Everyone starts off with a basic amount, which goes up or down with familiarity. For the women who want respect, they have to realize that they have to overcome the impressions left by every other woman who came before them. That could be a problem.
Mega, I have to confirm what what you had to say about Craigslist. It is worse than the Wild West. I don’t think there is a bigger factor in ruining American women than the entitlement they derive from online dating.It can’t last indefinitely.
Sue, it’s bad and men should not participate. It is a shame, because, on the face of it, it should work.
Toad, no one gets to shame women anymore. They are getting away with murder.
I think part of the problem with modern young women especially, is that they haven’t learned how to properly command respect. I work around a lot of early 20s women, and I think they fail to truly value themselves, resulting in them putting up with a lot of unnecessary bullshit. They don’t have or enforce boundaries at work or in their personal lives, so they are seen as unworthy of respect by others. When women begin to understand their worth, a natural reaction is that others will too. Then, respect is sure to follow.
As for alpha fux and betas bux, the betas have pretty much figured it out by now. They can see that there is nothing in it for them. Without beta bux, it all falls apart.
Reading Ashley’s comment is enough to bring on despair. There is little in common anymore between men and women. Feeding their narcissism got us into this. Feeding it some more won’t help.
Ash,
So you are saying that 20-something women automatically have “worth” and therefore should command respect?
I don’t agree. I don’t agree that 20-something men have “worth” that should properly command respect either, so it’s not intended as a sexist comment. They have little / no experience and are still in a phase of development. This isn’t to say that they aren’t valuable at all, but it’s expected that they will still be building their career for at least a few more years. Maybe then can they warrant the respect that is deserved.
This is part of the problem with modern Millennials. They’ve been taught that they deserve something right out of the gate, especially after receiving an education. Then they fail to even find a proper job, let alone one that could actually pay the bills and their student loans.
I remember when I was in my ’20s, and certainly knew a lot more than my immediate supervisors. Trying to command respect is a death wish in situations like that, especially if your supervisor is a woman. Long story, but learning to be humble actually gained me more respect than trying to command it. The rest just comes along with experience and time. When I got to my ’30s, I didn’t need to command respect. I’d already had it as a result of proving my value over the course of several years.
True ash, I think many women don’t truly value themselves, even if they make a lot of noise about how much they do. The blog therulesrevisited.com taught me so much in that regard. It was like advice from a big brother, saying “respect yourself or nobody will.” And in his mind respecting oneself meant passing on all “fun but not serious” type offers, not putting up w bs, doing and being different than most girls who were cluelessly ping ponging around in the dating world. It’s really not so hard to win, once one understands the true rules of the game.
True, respect is earned with experience. I have heard the guys say they never walk into a room expecting instant respect from other men. Women however do want instant respect from others, and usually give it to each other (at least on the surface.) so perhaps this is more of a “men earn respect to be accepted as a worthy warrior/hunter” vs. “women live communally in a hormonal hotbed and need to get make a show of everyone being respected.” One theory, anyway. it’s complex, for sure.
I do believe working on oneself to have self respect and also to be worthy of respect is better than looking outside of oneself for affirmation and “likes.” More stable.
A woman command respect? LOL that’s some funny shit right there
Without beta bux more women will shift toward part alooha fucks ie informal harems etc etc.
Without beta bux, it all falls apart.
Agree with “A Dad”, he pretty much nailed it. And Ash swung and missed. NOBODY is automatically given Respect. Respect is earned. And like Dad said … it goes both ways. If a man walked around and thought … I HAVE A PENIS … THEREFORE WOMEN SHOULD KISS MY ASS AND DO WHAT I WANT … people … men AND women would think he’s delusional. Yet women do this all the time. In fact ASH JUST DID. Ash … know what you are entitled to for being born with a Vagina ? NOTHING !!! THAT WOULD BE A BIG NOTHING, NADA, ZERO, ZILCH. The universe owes you NOTHING for having a Vagina.
The problem … again “A Dad” pointed it out … younger folks and especially women … are brainwashed to expect it … DEMAND IT. They exist on this planet SO OTHER PEOPLE OWE THEM SHIT !!! Its insanity. These people are mentally ill and have no fucking clue how the world really works.
And I think … for many men … not all, for sure, but for some … they eventually learn. A Millennial walks into a gym and thinks he’s hot shit … and other men will quickly get in his face and teach him a lesson. On the football field, basketball court, etc. When men compete .. ENTITLEMENT HAS NO PLACE AND IS NOT TOLERATED. Ton comes from a military background and that shit is not tolerated there at all. So many men eventually lean and grow up and some even … take the RP. For women … not so much. It is a rare women who will get in another women’s face and put her in her place. RPG here is a great example, in fact just read the last few comments. She dances and weaves. Kinda agrees and then disagrees. Doesn’t want to make a fuss or take a stand or really get in someone’s face … even when they are totally wrong. THEN READ THE MEN”S COMMENTS. Like mine or Ton’s or A Dads.
And I think this is a huge part of the problem. It is not a man’s job to teach a woman how to be a woman. Its not. That’s a woman’s job. But women these days are so fucked up in the head they don’t know or won’t or can’t. And its even worse … what advice they do give other women … is completely wrong. In many cases … women just plain LIE to other women and tell them the wrong things because they don’t want to OFFEND or some such bullshit. And I’ll give you an example … if a woman is more than “just a few” … like 25-50 lbs or so overweight … pretty much NO MAN IS GOING TO WANT TO FUCK HER. Done deal, men are not interested if you are 100 lbs overweight. So … any women want to weigh in and tell their overweight friend WHY THEY CANNOT FIND A MAN ???? ANYONE ??? Any woman who reads this blog every tell their overweight friend … that there are plenty of good men around but since she’s 5-4 and weighs 260 lbs … NO MAN IS GOING TO TOUCH HER.
I really have no idea why women do the things they do; like LIE to other women. Its like this … YOU CAN TELL OTHER WOMEN THE TRUTH AND MAYBE GET A LITTLE PUSHBACK … OR YOU CAN LIE TO THEM AND CAUSE THEM TO FUCK UP THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. AND THE LIVES OF THEIR CHILDREN. Seems like an easy choice to make … to a man. Why women do the shit they do … is beyond me. As I’ve said .. I’ve concluded most women today are just plain mentally ill.
Of course respect is earned, and my last comment is assuming that women have done so. That’s why I said “command respect” rather than demand because it insinuates that they have acted in a way that prompts respect rather than demanding it without reason. “But “A Dad” makes a good point about age. Many 20 year olds are generally naive and inexperienced in life. They don’t know their worth because that value is still developing. This still doesn’t automatically make them deserving of disrespect either. Common courtesy is still a general rule of thumb, at least I hope it is.
Your sympathy may be better placed in the people who have to pick up after the twentysomethings.
Signing off for awhile … got a big couple of days coming up. Doing some cool stuff with the GF … heading to the boonies to watch the Eclipse for one. Biking, hiking, eating out, etc … good times to be had. The sad thing is … we are living in some pretty dismal times. Lots of craziness and bad shit going on. So … to keep my sanity … I try to focus on the mundane. The simple. The human part … connecting with another human being and being honest. Sure glad I got the GF in my life. Really lucked out in meeting her. I’ve tried to explain to her how lucky she was to meet someone like me too. And sometimes I think it gets thru. Was kinda surprised awhile back when she admitted her father gave her grief over her divorce and tried to explain the situation and her odds of meeting another man. And all parents just what what’s best for their children. She knew that. So when I tried to explain it to her as well … she admitted … yeah, her dad tried to tell her that too.
Many men have tried to tell other men that … you met a girl … SO HOW IS HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER FATHER??? Because is a huge sign. If there is no father … run ! If she likes and respects her father … she’s probably got her head on straight. Can’t say that I disagree with that. And my GF seems to manifest that. She likes and respects her father and she’s a keeper.
Everyone enjoy the Eclipse and be safe. Make sure to wear your glasses !
Mega,
That is a good test.
Good to hear things going well.
We all see land whales walking around with some simp in tow so even the fattest of fatties can find a dick-stand. Won’t be there humble handy man who is also a secret billionaire, brilliant heart surgeon from Harvard who spent some time in SEAL Team six and child relief missions into the Congo but they find some simp to throw a dick into them
I have had a chance to sleep on what Ashley said. The twentysomethings don’t want respect, they want to be worshiped as goddesses due to their sexual marketplace rank. They want to pump and dump alphas. The feeling that I get is that we are all on a bus and women are doing the driving. While a lot of foolishness can be done on the flats, we are headed into the mountains and the men should get off.
Not all women are like our blog hostess, able to take in contrary information.
Cill wrote a post over at Spawny’s.
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/if-men-walk-wonder-woman-will-fold-like-a-europhiles-dick/
When you first meet someone, you don’t usually treat them disrespectfully (with rudeness, dismissiveness, interrupting them, turning away from them). Most of us have been raised to treat everyone with politeness, which a lot of people consider the same as “respect.” So that’s one perspective.
“Respect” for your opinions, accomplishments, knowledge, character, that must be earned. Nobody is going to respect some idiot’s opinion just because they demand it. If someone is incompetent at what they do, they will lose the respect of many, because incompetence isn’t a quality that brings respect. And we can go down the list. Act like a fool, you lose respect.
A lot of people are satisfied if they are treated with politeness. They won’t even notice if they’re not “respected,” as long as everyone is nice to them.
This applies to men too, actually, though the way in which it applies in context. Men would look for a different type of attentions, in terms of immature admiration and superficial attention such as approval from mates about silly things. When it comes to respect, men definitely need more of a different type of respect- a loyalty and submission type of respect, especially from the woman of their life.
Alex,
This culture is poisonous. What you described may be possible for some, but Ashley’s comments took the wind out of my sails.
I learned as a young boy growing up in a single mommy household that the only way I could stop the fighting and try to bring peace in the house was to be the goof. The dummy, that would cause everyone stop fighting each other for a moment so they could make time to laugh at him, point at him, call him stupid etc. and forget their arguments.
I learned this stuff, and learned to eat the humiliation it brought with it. I got no respect from anyone and was merely the cute kid my siblings would bring with them because, like a cute puppy, I was a conversation piece.
I married a good woman and still my sibs see her as a cute fly-over country girl who married their little bruddah and who “irresponsibly” shared over a dozen pregnancies with him (by him, no cuckoldry here). This despite the fact that she has a genius level IQ.
My point is that the “simps” who are marrying fatties or other social failures, and always walking around with their head low are likely coming from single mommy households and learned at an early age that being the cute silly goof brings peace to the house, or the relationship for a time. A time well relished.
It’s a mindset that is extremely difficult to break. We wouldn’t know sincere respect if we saw it. Were just the guys people always talk AT, never TO. We assume we are never taken seriously and as a result say whatever stupid shit comes to our mind.
Because screw-it, nobody cares anyway.
I friggin’ hate it.
@ roman you always come across as intelligent and thoughtful here! 🙂 I get what you are saying, and I am sure many can relate. Thank you for sharing that.
@fuzzie, I can understand how it must seem, as a guy. But from the female pov, I would bet few 20some gals even are consciously aware that they are getting pumped and dumped, or why. The, “why isn’t he calling?” Thing is so common in movies and such, they simply see it as “part of dating.” But in reality, it shouldn’t be part of dating. These girls should not be sleeping with anyone they have to wonder “will he call?” If they do have to wonder that, they should be keeping their pants on until things are more clear. But nobody tells young women that. Instead they are told, “be sexually liberated!” Not realizing getting pumped may be fun, but getting dumped after isn’t. And if it happens repeatedly, it hurts them and their future chances of a successful relationship and stable marriage. Young ladies, the way to win the game is to not play it. Wait. Wait for your forever guy. It’s worth it!
@rpg
It’s good your telling girls to “keep their pants on”. Unfortunately, young men aren’t being told the same thing. They aren’t being instructed in how these Hook-ups are killing their soul a little bit more each time.
I tell my boys, keep you zippers up, and your Pal tucked. Your soul is too important to toss it away by engaging casual sex. It’s destroys male self worth, and while the PUA’s may have some relevant insight into things, their weakest link in the chain is that they are not acknowledging the destructive nature of the “pump and dump” mindset on men.
That’s why I like the MGTOW mindset…it informs guys that their value, or manliness(alpha-ness?), is not a product of the number of women they’ve bedded. It comes when they realize they have intrinsic value predicated by mere existence.
And it is NOT about hating women.
Very true, Roman. Many of the PUA’s have found this to be true. Pumping and dumping women marred their souls, ruined their ability to bond to one gal, and while fun at first, eventually became hollow and sad. Roost V is perhaps the most recent example…
@RL: “I learned as a young boy growing up in a single mommy household that the only way I could stop the fighting and try to bring peace in the house was to be the goof.”
Daughter and I have read to each other since kindergarten. Still do. This summer she brought “Hilbilly Elegy” home from college and we read it to each other (soon to be a major motion picture directed by Ron Howard). It speaks to the dynamic of constant family fighting that you mentioned.
Toward the end of the book, the author is reflecting about all of his friends who grew up around him in similar circumstances and wondering what it was that allowed him and a few others to “make it” when all the rest didn’t.
His conclusion: he had a safe space he could escape to when the living got to be too much – a place where he could find stability, quietness and someone who believed in him. For the author, that place was his grandmother’s house. The author surmised that he would not have made it out of the chaos without that place to escape to when things got to be too much.
RL – you further state “We assume we are never taken seriously and as a result say whatever stupid shit comes to our mind. Because screw-it, nobody cares anyway.” Other blogs emphasize that men should maintain frame at all times. How can someone who is never taken seriously, how can someone who has never had someone cherish them, ever develop a frame that is worth maintaining?
One of the values of “Hillbilly Elegy” is the graphic way in which he lays out why he and a few others were the only ones able to develop a frame worth maintaining: he had a place to escape to where order reigned, rather than chaos, and there was someone there who believed in him and challenged him to be somebody.
The author doesn’t really emphasize this point, but it is obvious in what he wrote: because one person believed in him, and challenged him to rise to the ocassion, and because he had the mental ability to do so, his high school teachers soon noticed his effort and transformation, and so began to believe in him also. One person believing in him was the catalyst to the author gaining others who believed in him.
His grandmothers believing in him had a snowballing effect as it led to others also believing in him. Unfortunately, that dynamic works in the opposite direction just as effectively. Belittling someone who has no safe space to escape to can set them up for a life of less-than-could-have-been.
Trying to fix a life after it has been established is much more difficult than fixing it at the beginning. Here’s to folks who know how to cherish kids and give them a stable, safe space – even if only ocassionally.
Elspeth wrote something recently about “Hillbilly Elegy” here:
https://neverborednadine.wordpress.com/2017/08/02/something-about-roots-culture-and-history-i-guess/
The biggest issue with a lot of families these days is lack of order and someone to believe in them.
One of the things my husband said recently is that “a father motivates.” He’s right, and J.D. Vance was blessed to have grandparents who did that.
Children with chaotic family lives are deprived of that motivation not because their parents don’t love them, but because they simply are too overwhelmed with life and lack the understanding or inspiration to motivate.
Ash is out to lunch.
SfcTon nails it, right on the head. You women are all girls, and you all want attention. You don’t want respect. You want love, and attention is part of love. You don’t want respect from a man; in fact if a man “respects” you you’ll lose all attraction you might have had for him. You want attention from Alpha men, attractive men and good looking men. As far as women are concerned, all other men can die in a fire, because women dont’ care about any other men.
It’s time for the Deti primer on what “respect” is. Again. PLease pay attention.
Ahem.
there are three kinds of treatment men give to others. Common courtesy, peer respect, and respect.
Everyone gets common courtesy. That’s just politeness you give to anyone you meet on the street. Cordiality and politeness, coupled with my refraining from injuring or killing you.
The second kind is “peer” or “coworker” respect. This is earned. It is the respect a man gives to a coworker who has proved him/herself able and competent, even proficient. I will listen to them on work matters. I will subordinate work concerns to and with them. But they still don’t get true respect.
The third kind is true respect. In short, this is admiration + deference. This kind of respect is reserved only for those people who I recognize as truly worthy of it. They are admirable in word, deed, accomplishment, achievement, knowhow and character. I will often defer to them in matters of work, and sometimes in other matters as well.
the problem arises because women far, far too often believe they are ENTITLED to the third kind of respect; when in fact they barely qualify for common courtesy.
I have met maybe, MAYBE, two or three women who earned admiration and deference from me. All three of them are at the top of their field, and I have worked with and under them. They are accomplished and admirable. They earned it.
Most of you women haven’t. And you never will, not from me. I haven’t met any women in these parts who is worthy of admiration and deference. Not a single solitary one of you. It’s not a slam. It’s simply that you haven’t achieved that level with me. And you never will.
I will always extend common courtesy to you. I might, MIGHT, extend coworker/peer respect. But not a one of you will ever get admiration or deference from me.
And you know what’s funny? You women wouldn’t have it any other way.
another problem arises in relationships and marriages where the man gives admiration and deference to his GF/wife, when she has done absolutely nothing to earn it, knows she doesn’t deserve it, and doesnt’ want it. She doesn’t want her man worshiping her. She wants her man up on that pedestal so SHE can “worship” HIM.
@ Richard P:
I just took a sec to see what exactly it is this thread is about.
That meme up there is stupid.
As for men being able to have enough of a foundation to hold frame, my experience is that in the absence of a father who modeled holding frame, men either turn into the goof RL referenced or they put on an angry facade of frame.
A man with real frame commands respect with his very presence, and he doesn’t have to demand it. In my experience (husband, dad, grandpa, and an uncle are my sample), such men aren’t inclined to offer respect (different from courtesy) to anyone much less a woman and it takes his own woman a long time to earn that kind of respect, which is a completely different thing from love, which is actually much easier for him to pour onto her.
The book we read offered a lot of examples of men who had a solid frame. The uncles J.D. Vance loved so much were solid men for their time and culture. They just weren’t suited to live it out anywhere but in the “holler”, and Vance’s “Mamaw” wanted better for him than that.
He was fortunate.
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There are at least three distinct definitions of respect being used in this comment section. 1 definition is treating people good manners, the 2 is not stepping on other people boundaries, and the 3 is treating someone with esteem and honor.
Respect is being used to define all three without distinction to which definition is meant.