If you want a relationship that works in a world that doesn’t, my advice is to watch the winners. And not only watch them, but watch and learn.
I know quite a few such couples and in every case the wife works to stay attractive, is within acceptable BMI ratio, has a pleasant and upbeat attitude, never badtalks her man, and while no doormat, clearly sees her man as the respected lead. And, gasp, rather than oppress them, their husbands honor them.
In return these women have very nice, relatively worry free lives. They are financially secure thanks to years of working alongside their husbands (rather than against him), and have a stable and safe happy future to look forward to.
Sure, I know plenty of the opposite. But what is there to learn there, except maybe what NOT to do?
Look around for the happily married women in your life and aim to be like them if you wish to be happily married yourself. They may not be as easy to spot as the train wrecks and drama queens, but they make a much better case to study if your goal is relationship success.
Let those with ears hear.
C H said:
We live in a world that likes to punish winners for lack of ‘fairness’ or some such delusion. Damn spot-on post. Doesn’t matter if it’s relationships in the personal arena or work relationships, the fact is, to improve ourselves, we should watch how the winners succeed.
Do winners whinge and cry about fairness? None that I know. They push on, they use the concepts we have of ‘fairness’ to their advantage. Rather than too much complaining, they seek out what works, and they act on these things, instead of using their mouths to set in motion their own failure.
As a man speaks, or thinks in his heart, so he is. As you would say, “let those who have ears hear.”
It isn’t complicated, just difficult. Our subconscious enjoys controlling us when we allow it, because without conscious direction, it is left to its own devices. The heart, which I tend to think of as that subconscious, would rather do evil against us than good, so we must control it.
Roman Lance said:
Your post got me thinking. What makes a winning marriage? The answer, for me, seems a a bit nebulous and subjective.
1. Does a winning marriage just last a long time?
2. Does a winning marriage have two people, perceived by others, who are respectful of one another?
3. Does a winning marriage produce much fruit (many children)?
4. Does a winning marriage have two people of the same religious affiliation?
In my estimation a winning marriage produces holiness. If the two people aren’t increasing in holiness the marriage is not winning.
Good question Roman. I would agree, it is more than “happiness” or “respect” or “love” or “offspring” “money.” It’s a life well lived, and as you say an expression of God’s love and commitment to one another.
One couple I know, the woman was in the local store w her granddaughter who happens to look almost exactly like herself and they looked like they were having a grand time. I know this couple and they are one of those ones always together and smiling after all those years. There was a security thru generations I saw in the moment that was really beautiful. It’s hard to put into words.
Another quality I see in such couples is a unity, a sense the partnership is more than the two individuals. Like they become one entity. Us.
There’s also a quiet contentment. Like they truly enjoy each other. And such relationships are nearly drama free. No angst. They may have struggles and hardships and health issues and such, but those things are rarely self created.
Roman Lance said:
There’s also a quiet contentment. Like they truly enjoy each other.
This is a good encapsulation on the perceivable effects of a “winning” marriage. Just the kind of detail I was looking for.
Love this post, Bloom!
I think it’s a lot easier for people to hate the “winners” and just focus on that and forget that everyone’s life has hardships… just different kinds. And I get it in a way for someone to have that temptation to hate the “winners.” Life isn’t fair… there’s some truth to being born with more advantages than other people, things like “white privilege” are kinda sorta true 😦 Being born with parents who exhibited a good marriage (mostly) or who taught you how to manage money or life or be good to a spouse… I can see why people who didn’t have those things may “hate” the people who do. People who “win” have a fine line to walk between being humble and acknowledging they were advantaged, and not giving in to false guilt (white guilt is a good example) and go on apology tours for their life.
But many resent the people who **didn’t** have those “privileges,” hence calling black conservatives Uncle Tom’s etc.
A Dad said:
Only those who apply themselves will succeed. I was born into poverty, with a single mother. My siblings and I are all reasonably successful.
An immigrant once told me; If you can’t make it in the established world (especially in the USA), you are a failure and a loser. He is right. People need to stop showing sympathy for those who cannot put in an effort to survive. Handouts need to stop except for a few very specific circumstances.
Also, when you factor into things like IQ… that is mostly hereditary, it complicates how things are just “not fair.”
Also, it’s obvious that people with lower IQs are more prone to envy and believe the hype of how underprivileged they are and use it as an excuse.
A Dad said:
Sure, but I don’t care. Neither should any other productive member of society. Such a concept is intently the principal behind communism, which simply has no practical example of ever having succeeded.
@Stephanie, I don’t understand the hating on winners mentality but I know it’s there. My ex had a friend from high school who would rather than be happy when something good happened for us, would be envious and bad talk. Why on earth would someone not be *happy* at a friend’s success? I think it boils down to the way people view the world, via abundance or lack. If abundance, it’s easy to be happy for others bc you know it takes nothing from you, their win. Lack based people feel “there’s not enough good to go around,” so someone winning in their minds mean them losing. So not true! Same w natural born advantages, some are just richer, better looking, smarter, more socially aware… all have strengths and weaknesses. Nobody gets a golden ticket. If one wants more the answer is to put in the effort, not to hate on someone who’s done so. Being appreciative of what one has is fundamental to contentment. Small house? Make it the cutest and coziness small house it can be. Want to look better? Eat less, eat good nutritious food, walk and be active more. Want a better job? Put in the time and effort to get there. It’s really that simple. I know children of millionaires who have accomplished nothing. I know children of paupers who have done much. It’s all up to the individual. Being a miserable envious hater is a choice, and not a very healthy one! Better to be happy for others, and happy w oneself. 🙂
So true re IQ. I happen to have a grandfather and father who were both very sharp and who had photographic memories. I got some of that, my brother got more. But high IQ comes at a price too, that being you can get others but most others don’t get you. And you notice things, sometimes crushing things, about the world others don’t. High IQ, like everything, has upsides and downsides, just as low IQ does. I know many low IQ people who are successful yet, bc they get up and show up when others do not!
There is no such thing as white privilage. Its “anti-white” govt. Propaganda.
Those whites who are born with “privilage” have a good start in life because their parents /ancestors worked dam hard to build a country and accumulate resources for them.
The privilaged ones in my opinion are the non whites who are arriving into largely white countries and being freely given the white peoples tax $$, in the form of benefits, “free” education/ housing etc.
Plenty of broke/homeless white people.
Plenty of rich black families.
“But high IQ comes at a price too, that being you can get others but most others don’t get you. And you notice things, sometimes crushing things, about the world others dont”.
This is definately true. I notice things all the time that are so obvious to me, about the world, but most others cant see and i get frustrated
I’m continually impressed by the wisdom you shell out on this blog. Good stuff.
Ian I get it… or I should… part of my mom’s family were Polish Jewish immigrants that were both orphaned during the time of the early pograms. They both grew up as servants (more like slaves in a way) in a German household that changed our family from Jewish faith to Catholic faith. They grew up and married and kept being sent visas… they tore up the first because they loved Poland too much to leave. But by the time that they were mysteriously sent the second set, it had gotten bad enough that they took them and came through to the US through Galveston. They narrowly missed the holocaust.
Since then I’ve discovered that MANY Jews were mysteriously sent visas that brought them through there to Texas… very strange… so amazing how people were looking out for them.
They were so grateful to be here, and were so utterly poor my mom remembers their kitchen being so tiny, but her grandmother being so grateful for it. They told her that if they had stayed n Poland, they never would have been able to ever afford their own house! America was a serious game-changer for them.
Interesting story steph.
Yes america would have been a big game changer for them. They obv worked v hard when they arrived.
My anygle is that if you had any privilage, its because they worked hard to get it for you.
They were not born with privilage.
I used to be friendly with men from hungry. A mainly white country. They told me that most people there are completely broke.
In places like dubai, a non white country, so many rich people
I agree with most of this. Its common sense to look to those who are doing things successfully; however common sense isn’t that common. However, on thought
“I know quite a few such couples and in every case the wife works to stay attractive, is within acceptable BMI ratio, has a pleasant and upbeat attitude, never badtalks her man, and while no doormat, clearly sees her man as the respected lead. And, gasp, rather than oppress them, their husbands honor them.
In return these women have very nice, relatively worry free lives.They are financially secure thanks to years of working alongside their husbands (rather than against him), and have a stable and safe happy future to look forward to.”
Should these thing be done though with the expectation that you will get anything in return? Shouldn’t we do these things for their own intrinsic value, not what we might get out of. Is this using men? Doing this, that and the other so that in return a woman gets a cushy, worry free life from her man?
“Should these thing be done though with the expectation that you will get anything in return? Shouldn’t we do these things for their own intrinsic value, not what we might get out of. Is this using men? Doing this, that and the other so that in return a woman gets a cushy, worry free life from her man?”
If you think it’s using your husband to be good to him and then trust him to, in return, be good to you, things like this just may not make sense to you. it’s a lot more complicated than what you’re trying to pare it down to as just “using” him.
Maybe look up something called “reciprocity.”
This would be a good start for reading 😉
This one seems even better…
Example of marriage reciprocity in our home right now:
It’s really important for my older son to have time with his dad, however he only sees his dad on school days before school starts. This only gives him about an hour and a half for that whole day.
My husband knows this and really values that time with him and wants to optimize that time being able to talk one on one with our son, know what’s going on in his life, and answer questions big and small. It is amazing for their father-son relationship.
Since *I* know it’s so important to my husband that he spend his time this way, I make it a point to sacrifice a lot of sleep to get up extremely early, after having gotten up sometimes once or even twice during the night to feed our newborn, just so that I can get everything all done for them and breakfast made so they can have that time together. Could I allow my husband to just make their breakfast himself? Yes, but then he’d have a lot less time to just focus on being with our son.
So I do this even though I’m the kind of person that really needs 8 hours of sleep lol… but in return I actually get a TON of pleasure seeing them eating together alone and talking and enjoying the meal I made for them. But it also has the side effect of reciprocity because we’re in a marriage relationship.
My sacrificing a little in that one way really affects my husband, because he *does* appreciate it and it warms his heart toward me even, makes him love me even more, though that wasn’t my real intent to make him feel that way. It’s kind of the unspoken rule of reciprocity that flows from one’s heart that causes that effect. My intent in doing all that is because I love him – you could even say its because he provides so well for us or loves me so much that I want to “give back” to him, but I also know he doesn’t take advantage of me (a non-reciprocal kind of relationship). It’s not about him “using me” as a cook or maid, just like I’m not “using him” as a paycheck for provision. It’s a relationship, so we get a ton more out of being together than just material or circumstantial benefits.
So then after some morning chores, if he sees I’m tired he’ll suggest I take a nap and he’ll watch the toddler and baby while he works out (this just happened this morning!). I’ll fall into a deep sleep that rejuvenates me all because he felt like he did that for me. Did he do that only becasue he felt indebted to? Or because he felt compassion and kindness toward me? Or is it both in a way? Reciprocity.
He wakes me up from super deep nap, needs to get ready for work… locks the door and gets naked. I love seeing him naked and it immediately shows on my face (blush!), he sees my response and gets even more excited. We have an extremely fun quickey before he showers because he gets me instantly wet. He cums super hard… we both enjoy each other so much more because of all of this. He becasue I’m that turned on by him that easily and not to prudish to have a super quickie from behind while he’s still sweaty and the toddler is watching a cartoon n the living room. Me because it’s so thrilling he wants me that bad and let me sleep so deeply so that I’m not tired later when he’s not here.
It could go on and on and on….
But yea… I don’t think we’re “using” each other 😉
Stephanie, I am getting the using men ideal based on this comment from the “In Praise of a Beta” Thread.
SFC Tonsaid:September 1, 2017 at 2:22 am
The problem with this post is…..
The beta is being praised for his usefulness to women
There seems to be an ideal around here that women value men based on their usefulness. So, I was thinking if a woman is doing all those things that maybe she is doing them for the end goal of using him or getting something in return.
Btw, your marriage sounds a lot like mine. Very good to see!
I got my idea about using from this comment on the “in praise of beta” thread.
SFC Tonsaid:September 1, 2017 at 2:22 am
The problem with this post is…..
The beta is being praised for his usefulness to women
It seems some of the men here think that women try to get with men for something useful, like money, security. So I was basing my comment on that.
BTW, your marriage sounds a lot like mine. Good to see!
OOPPs sorry for the double post! I didn’t see it the first time.
Alan Kardec said:
RPG: “Lack based people feel “there’s not enough good to go around,” so someone winning in their minds mean them losing.”
This is a foolish but common thought process. I sort of jokingly call it Gold Standard thought. While there was a lot to commend about the old Gold Standard economy, there was only as much money as there was gold. It was easy for gold to get stuck in the hands of wealthy people and that limited what others could have. Given today’s somewhat symbolic currency, new wealth is created all the time through the influx of new ideas. These add value to the overall economy, and wealth to the people that thought of them. It’s a crude analogy and an economist could probably poke a dozen holes in it but the point is that the idea that there is only so much to go around is only true if you allow yourself to think that way.
RPG: “High IQ, like everything, has upsides and downsides, just as low IQ does.” I suspect I’ve known some of the highest I.Q. people alive, top scientists and the like. While expert in their specialties some of them are also some of the dumbest people I’ve ever met outside of them. I had a co-worker for awhile who was probably just sharp enough to do her job. The amazing thing about this woman is that she has the least baggage of anyone I know and it seems like she has no personalty quirks that ever interrupted her effectiveness. She had what I call “traction.”
You can have all the horsepower or I.Q. in the world but if you have no traction, you just spin your wheels. These days traction is mostly a blue collar value. And that’s a damn shame!
Putz of the year.
But also the level modern women feel entitled to; just friends but in underwear in apartment, stays when too drunk to go home. At worst using him, at best teasing himfor sadistic kicks.
Megan, it gets tricky when the woman isn’t attracted to her husband and motivated to be just even basically “reciprocal” toward what he provides for her. That’s why so many are angry about the bad deal of marriage it if for men. Many women really do just use their husbands for their paycheck and children and then divorce them and get alimony and basically steal their kids from them. It’s horrible, that’s why there’s a manosphere.
But to say that a wife doing what Bloom describes in this post is somehow “using” her husband (in a very negative way I should add, because that’s how “being used” comes across), it’s just a world of difference.
I was asking a question “is this using men?” based on the comment Ton left on another post. It wasn’t a statement nor what I personally believe. I was trying to figure out more about this “using men” mentality. Can the example RPG provided be seen as a way women use men? I was hoping the men would have chimed in on this and I suppose I should have directed my question that way.
A woman should do all those things because they are the right thing to do, despite if he is being a jerk or in a crappy mood. Even if you end up with no financial security or he doesn’t provide well you still need to do those things. I know some women can withhold all those positive things if they aren’t feeling like they are being treated right by their man and that is wrong.
I am have been happily married for nearly 14 years with an amazing sex life. He is incredibly helpful to me and I to him. We absolutely have a reciprocal relationship and I feel so blessed that I can share my life with him. The sex scenario you mentioned is pretty much what happens when we did co-sleeping or yeah when kid is in another room, he will just take me. A few weekends ago we had a romantic getaway and I lost count how many times we had sex…I kept referring to the weekend as “sexapalooza 2017” (jokes like that) and it created a lot of fun build up before we arrived.
Maybe they’ll chime in. A lot of them have been burned because they believed their wives would automatically understand this unspoken rule of reciprocity in relationships.
Just like a wife that actually loves her husband (and is attracted to him since that is a big part of what motivates her i suppose) does all those things because she loves him, she doesn’t feel “used.” A lot of women though that AREN’T attracted to their husbands (don’t truly love them in my opinion), DO feel “used” and make up tons of excuses to not do those things. That’s when you get things like “choreplay” where the wife typically doesn’t want sex unless she FEELS LIKE the husband has done enough “reciprocity” to EARN sex or her getting up early or what not.
The little differences are hard to catch or write about (and maybe I’m not doing so great a job explaining… maybe someone else can try)… but the differences are there.
I don’t feel used even though **** technically**** I guess you could say I provide “services” to my husband like cooking cleaning rearing his kids, sexing him loving him taking care of finances and meals and logistical planning… blah lbah blah.
And he could also say I technically “use him” for a cushy life. I have a seriously cushy life right now, but because I know that and love and adore him, I try to keep up my end of the relationship bargain and make sure HE feels like he has a good thing with me.
@Stephanie, that is an amazing story. From people I know who lived in Poland during and post WW2, it was very grim. In fact, one friend who grew up there and is late 40s now is perhaps one of the biggest advocates against this creeping socialist trend in the US. He knows firsthand how that doesn’t work! Now he lives in the US and bought a farm and works hard and is happy to live his dreams, hard work and self determination style!
@megan, good questions! I don’t think they are things done in exchange so much as common qualities of a woman making good healthy choices in general.
@megan good observation that a woman should do those things bc it’s the right thing to do, not bc he’s earned or not earned, deserves or doesn’t. Good point.
*** technically**** I guess you could say I provide “services” to my husband like cooking cleaning rearing his kids
Also your kids they are.
Also eat you do
Yoga, true although I am sure Stephanie did not mean to overlook that. But imagine a guy saying, “I guess my wife deserves to eat today (or not.) about as unreasonable as those women (not S) who say, “my hubby doesn’t deserve (sex, food, clean clothes, Yama Yama…) and women DO say stuff like that ALL THE TIME!
And not to harp on this but how sad 😦 how sad that women (not S) say routinely, “my husband doesn’t deserve xyz.” Only women really have the option to deny basics. If a man said such, well… is that equality? I could do a whole post on this idea, thanks Yoda!
Even if he had a son from someone before we got together, this would be the right thing to do because of his schedule. I mean the only other option would be him practically never having enough time to really talk to our older son about all kinds of little things. I actually purposefully don’t eat there with them so they can have more privacy… so he can have more just “guy time” with his dad.
Yea lots of women unfortunately decide their husbands don’t “deserve” them doing their laundry, making breakfast so they’ll have more time, making them the proverbial manosphere “sandwiches.” ….
They totally are missing that they should somehow be more grateful for what their husbands are **already doing** for them, and then reciprocate with acts of love and kindness toward their husbands… which in a marriage, usually looks like mundane things like cooking lol.
SFC Ton said:
No the problem is most of what RPG praised the man about was his usefulness to her and his wife.
This is not something I expect most women to get.
If I don’t deserve you, you don’t deserve me.
Said by either sex.
The Door is right there.
Ton they never will.
Men love romantically, women love opportunistically.
I love you for just standing there, for existing.
Can a woman really say that.
SFC Ton said:
I think they can but on the margins
The Girls are crazy about me. They certainly do more for me then I do for them as far as around the house/ non-sex stuff of living together goes.They were devastated when the docs put me on the clock but not once has there been any kind of sign they are looking for a branch swing. Hard to explain how well they take care of me, how they never get pissy when I choose the making money, bikes, the dogs or the woods over them, which I do about 99% of the time. We go for days where the only real interaction between us are those slaps on the ass and a bend over bitch. Though we do sleep in a piled mass of humanity and dogs
But women can love a man, but not as a peer or a partner. Women love men like subjects love their king. As is right, good, proper and just, but that love is based on a certian level of submission and fear.
Why I say on the margins; I doubt most men can pull of a benevolent dictatorship of any kind without the old school books being enforced by the law, church and state…. yet that’s what women and kids do best under.
It’s all fucked up, there is nonlarge scale solution but there is a fuck ton of small scale solutions
😥 so sad Ton about being “on the clock!?!?” Waaahhh that sucks!!!!!
I’m a little scared Sheepdog2013 is going to go full “Ton-mode” when he’s your age Ton lol… I mean he already spanks me a lot – I like it and adore him but it’s like ever constant teasing. Are your girls ever annoyed but not *really* annoyed? I don’t even understand myself on that issue lol.
I’m so glad you have what you have with them and that they adore you and take care of you! So happy for you!
“but not once has there been any kind of sign they are looking for a branch swing.”
They’ll probably be real “alpha widows” if or when you pass away.
I’ve already accepted that I’ll be like that if anything happens to my husband. A literal “alpha widow.”
SFC Ton said:
LOL that annoyed but not annoyed with me is their default setting. I am difficult to live with, as folks can imagine, but it’s also part of their relationship as well
@ Ton, we are all on the clock. May you live to be an old man! ;’)
SFC Ton said:
Leave it to women to miss the point.
Farm Boy said:
There is a new post
Lol if you were talking about me, I got the point of the rest of it, too. I just don’t like what that dr. Said and hope you prove them wrong by living to be an old man! 🙂
Comment by Embracing Reality over at Dalrock’s
“The supply of single women even remotely adequate for marriage is abysmal. Set aside the obesity epidemic for a minute, the slut problem and the sexlessness after marriage and ask yourself self this question. Based on attitude, personality, ability would any of these needy creatures be worthy, even of your casual friendship, if SEX wasn’t a factor? Sex, however infrequently and mundane? And you’re supposed to trade a lifetime of devotion and sacrifice for ‘her’?
Reverse the roles. Imagine you were pursued by members of the opposite sex, some of which were sexually attractive. They wanted sex with you and would sacrifice greatly to get it. A generous, sexually attractive date buying you gifts, expensive nights out for a year so they can marry you and give you sex, new cars, pay your bills, provide everything and a great big house, free! Is it any wonder so many of them think their entitled and that their slippery hole is made out of gold?”
Put this way the female response is almost logical.
Except the followup questions.
If this person is giving you all this
1 why are you not happy (or content)?
2 why would you throw it away?
3 what did you think would happen (at 35+)?
Here’s a good solid pickup truck, a bass boat with a 60 horse and a trolling motor, crate full of flies and lures, and 3 new poles! Free! Because I like you!
Male response (none because he’s speechless and just took off fishing)
Well, its nice but I’d really prefer a duck blind and a pump action. Its not a king cab.
Well I guess it’ll do, for now, yeah.
Ohhhh look, a 80 foot yacht! I’ll never live on it but a night on it would be Amazing!!
Off topic but excellent example of feelz versus logical objectivity.
Article on flood planning in Canada after Harvey.
“maps projecting which areas would be at risk in the event of a flood. Mapping is often out of date, Feltmate says, or fails to reflect the threat of sewer systems becoming overwhelmed. And we need to model where the water might go if the storms get worse.
But updating those maps is not without political risk. Homeowners and developers might not appreciate learning that what they own is going to be declared a flood risk. City councils, Feltmate notes, might learn that the property taxes they were counting on are now in danger.
“If you update the flood plain maps, all of a sudden you find out that there are entire subdivisions within your city where now homes are recognized as being at a flood risk,” Feltmate says. “Those homeowners will go apopletic because you’ve now stigmatized their homes”
Not mapping because knowing houses at risk would stigmatize them upsetting homeowners.
No better to know and make decisions like sell for lower price or install expensive flood prevention rather than go along lalala until flood ruins the house, insurance wont pay and its worthless.
Why risk assessment must balance feelz.
That person is so hot. Yeah but they are nuts. Yeah but they are hot, I want them!
Whaaàa the hottie destroyed my life!!
Shouldn’t have built on a flood plain.
Horseman: Yes a woman can say like that. I love my partner and am truly happy just because he exist in my life. Just seeing him every day makes me happy.
Then you are a good woman Rosealie.
Welcome and gods bless your relationship.
Thank you Horseman. May god bless your marriage too.
By the way… I think one reason for the behavior in your questions could be that a person’s attraction doesn’t increase so much when they receive attention and pampering, Usually one’s attraction increases more when they do good things for their partner. I love that my partner always considers me and wants to take care of me. But what makes me even more attracted is when I can do loving deeds for him. So if a woman is only getting and not giving then her attraction might not grow the same way.
Also about the age factor. I don’t think people usually think about aging when they are very young. To a 20-year-old being 35+ seems something that will happen after a long long time so I don’t think they are thinking what life is like at that age.