In comments from the previous post something interesting came up, how feminism often portrays the worst case into the norm. But it’s not the norm, and thinking so leads to all kinds of problems.
For example, the idea that men are always the abusers all of the time. And the closely related “all men are rapists and abusers.”
Now clearly neither statement is truth nor do the stats even bear them out. Are some men abusers? Yes. But some is not most or all. The number of men who physically abuse women has always been a small number of the entire male population. And most men themselves feel revulsion at a “man” who abuses or victimizes anyone weaker than itself.
Another example, “All men leave.” Or the variation, “You always have to be independant in case he leaves.” Sure, statistically some men leave, but for the large part most men are more than willing to stay and are quite shocked themselves when their woman leaves them.
Another example is pay on the job. Yes, in some cases it has been revealed that men were making more for the same job. But in most cases, they aren’t. There is no secret keep women down society, there really isn’t.
So next time you find yourself accepting such statements as TRUTHS, look closer and see if it’s really so. More often than not it’s just another example of Apex fallacy, the belief that all men have it just like the top, most privileged men, when in reality they don’t. Sometimes, they have it worse, even much worse, than women! Yep.
Let those with ears hear.
‘but for the large part most men are more than willing to stay and are quite shocked themselves when their woman leaves them.’
Willing to stay doesn’t’ mean his goals and needs are being met. He may believe in the misguided principles of honor and chivalry. It could and likely does mean he doesn’t have the balls to, or doesn’t want to go through a divorce.
A women leaves for reasons red pill clearly points out. The fault is not necessarily with feminism. Why get angry because the birds are flying. It’s what they do.
The fault lies with weak men and strong men not standing up and controlling their relationships. Not teaching the next generation Of men how to be men. Even if mgtow the responsibility of men is to pass on what they know. Hence the Manosphere.
Women are pretty much unchanged. We have a more militant arm but they are still women. A die hard feminists will still react to strongmen.
True most married men do not even think about leaving their wives unless she cheats.
its mostly the women leaving their men / cheating from what i can see
With the Red Pill lens, we know why men and women leave or don’t leave their marriages. Cheating is just a symptom.
Yes, there are bad actors out there (abusers, serial cheaters, addicts…) yet they are not confined to a single gender. They are outlyers.
As RPG points out this is not the overarching reason. The reason lies in the breakdown of relationships, the wrong reasons for getting married in the first place. To which I will blame men for. We allowed it to happen. Our bad relationships are reflections of our pursuit of mediocrity.
So – let’s develop a comprehensive list of the “right” reasons for the man to get married. And let’s assume a cohort of men buy into that list (tailored to each of them) and vow to marry only the person who meets every item on the list.
Why do we think, if a man finds a woman who meets all items on his list, that she will want to marry him? And how foolish to think that people don’t change as they grow and learn things. How can you possible know what the “right” reasons for having a compatible relationship will be when you are both 50 years old? Folks grow, and learn, and change. Starting out compatible doesn’t mean you will still be that way at age 50. “Growing up together” requires a skill set slightly more complicated than a list of the “right” reasons to marry the “right” woman at age 23. Kind of like the boxing guy who says the fight plan changes the moment the first blow lands.
Since Adam and Eve, we marry who will have us. Except for those cultures with arranged marriages. The rest is a crap shoot. The folks who have vowed to God to honor his claim on their lives are probably gonna have a better shot at it than folks who simply vow to each other. Your vow to God still stands when your partner changes (as they inevitably will). Your vow to each other may not.
“Vow to God” in previous post = vow to God to honor his desire for marriage.
I stuck around primarily so that I wouldn’t have lost my son. It paid off, in the end, because I got 50/50 custody in spite of the inevitable. I also got to keep him in a complete household for several extra years of his childhood.
If I’d walked out, the additional penalty most likely would have been more severe (out of spite from the ex) but ultimately we settled under fairly favorable terms because I was able to stick through even the worst of it.
However, I much rather would have worked out the problems in order to have a quality marriage. She just simply was unwilling. Not that I’m saying that the problems are 100% her fault, but I will say that she was absolutely unwilling to compromise and only cared about her personal interests.
It’s easy to say that “men should stand up and control the relationships” but the reality is that it’s not quite that simple.
“Men have to control the relationship.” I don’t think is going to work. Women are rebelling at their own volition. Whatever a man is going to do to counter is going to weak because he is appealing to her. The quoted statement is asking men to supplicate. Men have been willing to be team players all along. If women can’t do as much, this is not going to work.
To those men who believe the Red Pill will give them the power to overcome their wives’ stubbornness, forget it.
As a final thought, I don’t think that feminism foresaw bringing this aspect of female character to light, but killing marriage was always their goal.
a very freeing truth to learn … that my dad and ex were just two men, not all men.
Actually crazy women are being taught
men are abusers and will leave.
I think its better to marry, have kids,
Then have your wife leave you, than any alternative.
Assumiing you have protected yourself from losing a dime from divorce. As well as have pre arranged agreement for access to kids.
It is frustrating, I am sure, to be told, “You ALL will do that.” It isn’t always true. Male or female, nobody likes being told that. It doesn’t help us reach an understanding if we’ve already got our minds made up about the other person.
Ian – I find it to be interesting that there are a surprising number of threads on TRP.Red about men who want to have families but don’t want to take the risks with no-fault divorce. The threads talk a lot about how to protect yourself from financial ruin. Essentially, they are generally legally questionable. So I guess that the only real solution is to find the right woman and NOT marry, because there is potentially a lesser financial risk involved and it’s not legally questionable.
This obviously is not something that women will want. Most will want a traditional marriage, but how many would take traditional divorce law as well? Probably none. What about traditional Christian views about the husband / wife dynamics in a relationship? Probably even less.
to be fair, i’ve had to learn that about women, too, as my parents were equal-opportunists when it came to abusing me. i’m very leery about trusting women and am more likely to trust men than women. women are generally more mean and deceptive and deceitful and manipulative.
Ame,
I can’t think of anything much worse that being abused by parents. After that, who in life can be trusted? I think that most people who go through that stay single the balance of their lives.
As for “All men are…”, the quickest way for feminism to gather adherents was to vilify men. For them, it worked really well. For the rest of us, there is a big mess to clean up.
A dad
Its certainly a big issue men need to solve prior to getting into that position.
My approach – own nothing in your own name.
Dont sign any govt shit.
.
Ian,
Any defense that men can think of will be overcomed and overturned by a family court judge.
Fuzzie – i was told when i was in therapy many years ago that i should be severely messed up. but i’m not. and i give all the credit for that to Holy God. not saying it’s been easy, cause it hasn’t.
the beauty and joy for me is that my girls have no concept of what i went through. even though their dad did some truly terrible things to them, i was able to step in and protect them from him in many ways … again, i give all credit for that also to Holy God as it was all answers to prayers over many years. again, not saying what their dad did wasn’t bad and hasn’t had serious repercussions, cause it has, and they’ve had to work through some seriously tough stuff. all four of their grandparents and their dad did some sick stuff, but my Husband has helped them in many ways to know that there are truly good men out there who do not hurt and abuse others.
also … i tell them a lot of y’all’s stories out here, too 🙂
Ame,
You did what most people cannot, you did not pass it on to the next generation. That is why so many stay single.
ian said:September 26, 2017 at 1:09 am
“I think its better to marry, have kids,
Then have your wife leave you, than any alternative.”
So far (5 years after 21 years of marriage), I don’t agree. Maybe someday, but I doubt it.
OKRickety,
I think all men harbor some hope that there is a way to win at this game. That is the vulnerability in all of this.
Fuzzie – it was my passion to do so since i was a little girl. i couldn’t understand why there wasn’t even one someone in my lineage who cared enough about me to stop the cycle, and i didn’t want my children or future generations to wonder the same. i wanted my children, grandchildren, and future generations to know there was one someone who cared and loved them enough to do the work to make the changes necessary. my girls understand my sacrifices as much as they can and they are both deeply appreciative. i am truly blessed.
Ame,
You are blessed. You stopped the cycle. That doesn’t happen very often.
Fuzzie – you can read “My Story” on my blog if you ever want the long version 😉 . i do give all credit to God. it was hard but so worth it.
Ame, I will do so.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/09/26/all-sheilas-be-appreciative/
Ame,
I got through the first twenty five posts. I hope that you have found a new dog since.
“So – let’s develop a comprehensive list of the “right” reasons” -RichardP
There are none. In today’s society, it’s a business case that can’t be made. There is no upside for a man to get married. The advantage to getting married in the past was the sexual availability of the woman he married. That is no longer the case. So why bother? If women are giving sex away without marriage….
““Men have to control the relationship.” I don’t think is going to work. Women are rebelling at their own volition. Whatever a man is going to do to counter is going to weak because he is appealing to her. ” – fuzziewuzziebear’
A fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of women and the laws of relationships. It’s a woman’s job to MAINTAIN the relationship. She knows what to do to keep a man’s interest. It’s always a question of is he doing what he needs to do to maintain that.
Hypergamy is selfish by nature. Tough love is the only solution. A man must control the relationship.
“What about traditional Christian views about the husband/wife dynamics in a relationship? Probably even less. ” – A Dad
I once identified as Christian. I am not so sure anymore. Not after I have seen the church downplay the role of men and essentially uphold the Feminist Imperative.
As for marriage. As I said Society has ruined what marriage was once supposed to be. It has turned it into a legal contract of exclusivity. Exclusivity of sex, financial support, and emotional security.
Trouble is only 2 of those are legally enforceable (emotional and financial support) and the weaker party is always at the mercy of the stronger with no recourse but to pay cash and prizes to leave. The laws can’t make a spouse have sex….so where does that leave a man whose primary need is sex? His primary purpose of getting married is the sexual availability of the woman he wants. True a woman offers far more than just sex, RPW list a lot of things a woman can bring to the table but the essential need for a man is sex. He can forgive a lot if that need is being met.
Furthermore, doesn’t I show MORE of a commitment on a man’s part that he stays with his family without a marriage license? Knowing that your LTR or spouse can leave at any moment keeps you on your game. Knowing that she isn’t yours, that it’s just your turn reminds a man that her love is based on selfishness.
A woman will fall in love with a man for who he then spends the rest of his life trying to change him into something else. It’s the man’s job to prevent that. Many feminist believe a man’s world is easy. It isn’t. We just make it look effortless. Our world is one where it doesn’t matter what I did yesterday. Every day I must prove myself. I must prove that the day before wasn’t a fluke or some lucky break. That I deserve what I built and that I can do it again. And again. And again.
As for men that beat their women? That abuse their family? I feel for those victims. I am a volunteer paramedic and I have worked in a battered women’s shelter. Those are not men. They do not own their shit, they allow their emotions to control them. Hell they have far more emotional turmoiil then a teenage girl….yet they are outliers. They are not the norm.
JustAGuy – “A fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of women and the laws of relationships. It’s a woman’s job to MAINTAIN the relationship. She knows what to do to keep a man’s interest. It’s always a question of is he doing what he needs to do to maintain that.”
“Hypergamy is selfish by nature. Tough love is the only solution. A man must control the relationship.”
And we have a winner … BECAUSE … in the current state of affairs … there is nothing compelling women to do what is required to maintain the relationship. What they do is voluntarily and they can walk away … with cash and prizes … whenever they want.
And #2 there is NO WAY for a man to control the relationship anymore. No fault divorce, alimony, child support and a weaponized legal system used to penalize and incarcerate men at the drop of a hat AND given women the biggest pussy pass in the history of humanity. There is no way a man can control a relationship … especially over the long haul … given the current situation.
So, yes, pretty basic decision logic … once you take the Red Pill and see things how they really are. Huge downside risks, very little rewards, no guarantee of sex (she can stop at any time), and even if you do have children … they can be stolen from you at any time … and you will be hamstrung by the legal system such that you can no longer really be a good parent (almost impossible when every time you have to deal with your Ex you are subject to arrest … on her whim) … and while you cannot be a parent … you are forced at the point of a gun to pay for children … while you Ex brainwashes them to hate and resent you.
I used to think that the only way to recommend marriage is to marry young and only if you wanted a family … even that isn’t feasible anymore.
There is everything a man can do to control the relationship. It’s his ability to walk away. So yes the secular side of marriage has ruined that. By adding cash and prizes to the equation.
Then this merely means marriage becomes a business arrangement. Not what women want to hear right? Even still in general if a man maintains his ability to walk when things are not working out he will come out on top.
Men WANT women in their life. Women NEED men. Sex is easy. It may not be with whom you want or to the quality you want it….but it is easy to get. Women have downplayed their currency. Almost devalued it.
Women on the other hand cannot buy a relationship. It has to be willingly given and even still it has to be of quality. There is no half assing it. A man’s currency (time/commitment) is far more valuable.
Women have to maintain it, do the things a man wants and needs in order to keep them. Men have to make sure that relationship is fulfilling their needs and they are providing enough Oak qualities to maintain his woman’s interest. This also means being a man worth fucking.
Mega,
I wish it weren’t so. They have taken so many advantages that it is untenable.
Off topic, On a lighter note,
JustAGuy – I don’t identify as a Christian either. I’m just talking about traditional concepts that men lead their family in home and spirituality.
A lot of women and male feminists claim that it’s taken out of context, but as I get older I see that it’s not. A woman’s role is to support her husband and compliment him, but not try to lead him. So we see a lot of traditional roles thrown right out the window and it seems to do nothing but create problems.
Few churches teach this anymore, out of fear, and we now have a lot of men who are simply afraid to lead in any aspect of life. They cave to an unsupportive wife. One must wonder if men are not to blame for allowing this to happen, but it’s hard to find complete fault in men when we have a culture that treats masculine behavior as destructive and toxic. I seem to think that the opposite is true. It tends to protect from absolute chaos like we have now.
A dad.
I think the reason we have a culture that treats masculine behavior as destructive and toxic
is because men have allowed that.
Men sat around watching sports and ignored
what their children and wives were being taught.
I wonder what would happen if i started preaching feminist doctrine in that christian community rpg talks about.
My guess is they could chase me out.
They would defend themselves and their women from it.
Men in the outside world didnt.
“One must wonder if men are not to blame for allowing this to happen,” – A Dad
FIrst I didn’t imply that you were Christian. Just a curious point.
But We are at fault. Heavy is the head that wears the crown…and I for one wouldn’t have it any other way. Our relationships are reflections of ourselves. If your relationship is shitty look to yourself. Just because you divorce and find another girl, it doesn’t mean it will be better unless you fix the things that caused the first one to fail.
“…but it’s hard to find complete fault in men when we have a culture that treats masculine behavior as destructive and toxic.” – A Dad
No. It is. Men can walk. We are seeing it now. Whether they realize it or not men are waking up to the fact that there is no benefit in marriage or even, more dramatically, relationships at this point. It’s a losing proposition. Even with the best girl. Society plays a large role in this for sure, but a man must either live with his foot firmly on the gas or opt not to play at all. As I said sex is easy. Women are giving it away. Why should I use my currency to gain it? And yes I am fully aware this is RPG point to the feminine. Yet it is even more complex because women in today’s society will never yield to men. They will never fully submit, conversely, men will never fully commit to women.
For the man that puts his foot on the gas, he will exist between never fully giving himself and enjoying his girl. He will never fully commit because he knows she can and will walk at the slightest hint of weakness. He knows she can never love him the way he expects and she will never fully meet his needs.
As for the one that walks. He exists in either opting a complete monk lifestyle or coming out once in a while finding a girl for a time enjoying her. Then leaving her before commitment gets too expensive.
Make no mistake. There is always a choice. A man with options is free.
Ian yes you would be run out and the community would be informed to reject and shun you and your blasphemy. The elders decide everything, it’s about conformity not individuality. Someone preaching modernism would be seen as a heretic and a threat to community. Anyone who went along with that person with them would likewise be shunned and cast out. They understand the threat of such thinking and reject it strongly.
“He knows she can never love him the way he expects and she will never fully meet his needs.”
And inversely I will add
She knows he can never provide and protect her the way she expects and he will never fully meet her needs.
THIS!
The common knowledge that romantic love, chivalry, soulmates, fate
DOES NOT EXIST.
This killed the need for relationships, done by both sexes.
After this it is all a shame, a game, a distraction.
WHY BOTHER??
Honestly, I am asking you all, seriously give me a reason in light of this
Why Bother??
I like girl bears?
“She knows he can never provide and protect her the way she expects and he will never fully meet her needs.”
We have proof this isn’t necessarily the case.
Beta Bux Alpha Fucks.
Men who cheat but keep their wives or LTRs around are not doing so because needs are being met. They are doing so for one of two reasons.
1. Divorce is expensive.
2. They are weak men meaning they are just seeking validation from women. It’s almost a feminine quality. “she’s a good mom but I want to bang 10s”.
Yet women will keep both relationships around and fully justify it to themselves. They will seek out or try to create a beta for the purposes of gaining beta feelz from their men. Once achieved, or having married a beta in the first place, they will later seek out an Alpha to satisfy the other part of their needs. This manifests itself in many ways but women are fully capable of justifying their actions.
“He’s a really good provider but I am not in love with him anymore.”
“He’s a really good father but he doesn’t do it for me….”
Any permutation of this. It’s important to note that not all women cheat. They may think about it but women have many tools in their toolbox. They can be sexual camels when the need arises and they will have no issue with cutting men off. THey will think it’s for the best and he will understand. They will then dole out sex as a reward or to keep their beta around. I lived under this exact scenario and had it replay out with 2 girlfriends after.
The advantage for me was MRP got me through the marriage and my act cleaned up and helped me identify when the 2 GFs were pulling the commit to me or else game. I ended them before it got further.
Hypergamy is selfish and it knows no mercy.
Horseman,
In all seriousness, men do have a biological imperative that is difficult to deny. but women are doing an awfully good job of giving men reasons. The patience of men is not without limit.
JustAGuy – I think that some of what you’ve experienced is a mirror image of my situation.
If I am being honest, the relationship was pretty good when she knew that I was willing to walk away without consequence. I told her that she could never come back if she left. It was only after things changed over the years, and I cracked, that my outlook had changed for the preservation of my family. At that point she had control and manipulated the situation, lost interest, and checked out.
It’s messed up that it’s the nature of the dynamics but it’s just the way it is, and it happens to a lot of men that are otherwise pretty decent guys.
Fuzz
Anyone can get sexual release if they seperate from “romance” and lower their expectations or just self service.
Especially now. That just reinforces my question of why bother with it all.
I like women, I love looking at them, even their foolish games amuse me knowing what I know now.
But bother with any other than Mrs, nah.
Adad
Sympathies. Been there. Again “for the preservation of my family”
If you were a youngin knowing what you know now, would you bother?
Mostly guys responding on a site for women.
Ladies, do any of you have an answer for my question?
“But [why] bother with any…..”
FIFY
I come here specifically for the female perspective on the manosphere.
I know the guys answer to why bother, I am interested in why you think we should knowing what we know. Because I cannot see a logical reason other than passing amusement which is not conductive to even short term commitment.
mgtowhorseman,
That’s a tough question. I love my son more than anything else and I would not trade him for anything.
But, no, I would not marry, especially the type of woman that I had married. The sacrifices that I’ve made to give her the life that she wanted have cost me a lot over the years. I take full responsibility for the decisions, but realize in retrospect that many of the choices were suboptimal. I’ve escaped with less financial damage than most men but still wonder at what I could have accomplished without that extra weight over the course of half of my life. Again – my own mistakes. I guess it’s helped me to grow though. And I still have a lot of time left in my life to do everything that I want to do.
I also appreciate the female perspective. I’m curious as to whether or not their experiences mirror those of the men, if they look deeply at their current and past relationships.
I know that we have a lot of women here that have a strong interest in a traditional family dynamic, but I don’t think that our experiences are entirely isolated to less than perfect marriages and relationships. The degree at which someone just checks out is largely up to the individual, man or woman.
RedPillGirl wrote: “Someone preaching modernism would be seen as a heretic and a threat to community. Anyone who went along with that person with them would likewise be shunned and cast out.”
My church is not as strict as the one RPG talks about, but a while ago we had some people trying to force more “modern” thoughts on us (including allowing women more power within the church) and it caused a great ruckus and bottom line, it didn’t work. We rejected it. They wanted us to come into the 21st Century, but we wouldn’t have anything to do with it! LOL!
Before when we had this conversation about these churches (maybe a month or so ago?) a lot of people were marveling at how the church RPG talks about (and to some extent my church) had such “control” over their women. It’s not so much “control,” it’s that everyone is devout and on the same page about being obedient to God. The love for God must be there, IMO.
There is no feeling that women are being “controlled” or are lesser beings. Everyone has their part, their role, and we support each other. The feminists have it wrong when they try to get us to believe that because we don’t have the identical role to men, that we are inferior.
Another thing I wanted to touch on: Girls should be raised to understand that sex is a good and healthy part of a marriage and that if a woman is ambivalent about sex, that she shouldn’t marry. No one has suggested that wives be forced to have sex with their husbands. That’s barbaric anyway and wouldn’t work in the long run. Better that a woman does not marry at all than to play some “maybe I will, maybe I won’t” game with her husband. It’s terribly unfair to him.
There is a difference between being submissive and being subservient.
Just as there is one to being dominate and domineering.
I didn’t have a say in how this world was built. I just live in it.
Horseman,
I don’t know if you caught my link. Troy Francis wrote a post on RoK about how men should not even talk about wanting long term. That it sends the women away screaming.The more that I think about it, the better a point he makes. It is all about the carousel.
As for self-service, there have been studies to confirm it. It is not as satisfying.
“Mostly guys responding on a site for women.
Ladies, do any of you have an answer for my question?”
Horseman, most women reading don’t want to get into arguments and any reason a female reader/commenter would provide, would probably never be good enough. We know and understand marriage is bad for men, there’s literally no point for y’all. Any slight advantage we may want to point out probably would never be enough and that’s just the sad truth.
If like “A Dad” points out, there’s mostly traditional-type women reading, they’re probably the kind that really wants to avoid arguments or insults/attacks on her marriage if she gave her own life examples. So avoidance (not commenting mostly) is a relief from that kind of drama.
Cheers rpg.
Always great to hear how this community behave and maintain standards.
I think any man complainig about the behaviour of the modern woman should look at their own (largely passive) roll in allowing it.
These men dont.
“We know and understand marriage is bad for men, there’s literally no point for y’all. ”
Good comment steph. A girl said this to me about a year ago. She was laughing at how stupid men where. At the time i agreed with her. I used to be very against marriage.
But now i think men can benefit from marriage hugely if they maintain their balls and protect themselves from financial ruin.
thank you, Fuzzie – yes! we finally got another doggie. we picked her up from the pound when she was 2. it took us awhile, but we discovered she’s deaf! she’s cuddly, adorable, has not one ounce of shame, ever! knows and follows hand signals – except when she doesn’t want to, then she sticks her nose in the air and turns her head cause if she can’t see the instruction, she doesn’t have to obey it, right?! since she’s deaf she needs to be touched, a lot, so we oblige gladly … and she needs to see where we all are since she can’t hear. she’s captured our hearts 🙂
Horseman,
I am sorry for undercutting your arguments, but I still can’t shake the hope that there is something out there for us.
Ian,
While it is not just you. we have to stop finding fault with men. It’s not men who are broken, they are simply reacting to what women are presenting. While it may seem easier to fix men, and certainly easier to blame them, it is not going to get us very far.
BTW it is not just you..
Men are always held responsible in the end. Why? Women and children lack moral agency
Steph
Thanks for answering.
Actually I don’t want to argue. My thoughts and most men are well known.
I am interested in the ideas of modern women and if you’ll see a way out of this mess that we men can’t?
Giving up dooms the race to extinction but we don’t see an alternative on an individual level.
Also how are women honestly responding to the man drought, those who understand why we do it?
How are you coping?
What are you feeling towards the package you were sold.
Mgtow is the future of men. What is the future of women?
All we get from MSM on women is where are the men gone. What is it really like out there??
Ame,
That sounds like a fun dog.
Fuzz
I have hope too at a societal level. The duality of my heart want us to find a way forward but my head not seeing one.
I am hoping maybe a different perspective can see what we are missing.
Horseman,
I’m probably getting too personal here, but I am going to guess that one of the big reasons that the Mrs. came home is because she didn’t want to ride the carousel. I get the feeling that few women are made to ride the carousel and those that aren’t get a little sick at the thought of it. Still, the way things are going, it may end up being the only option.
With all due respect to the good men here…. The attitude toward kids and son’s is interesting to me.
All I want is son’s to carry on my forefathers name and lineage plus enough cash to help establish them as sovereign men in their own right.
I see this as bit of an alpha vs beta trait. Old School Patriarch type thinking vs good hearted beta dude who wants to get by and enjoy the good life as best he can.
Am I off the mark? This is a broad based topic that’s been on my Swiss cheese like mind lately
Assumiing you have protected yourself from losing a dime from divorce. As well as have pre arranged agreement for access to kids.
….
Courts over turn pre nups and what not every fucking day
Agreed Ton.
Of my six siblings I am the only one with kids. My son and daughter are ghe last to carry our values thru. I include my daughter because its more than just a name, its the traditions and values that she can equally carry.
Fuzzie
I see your point here. But in my opinion men do need fixed. They are too passive to the destruction of society. Too femminie too some of them.
I am aware of what women are like too.
in real life i always hear stories of married women cheating.
Ton what i am saying is dont get legally married.
Ton – I don’t know. Generally speaking, your boy is going to be around for you in 30 years even when the women in your life have long left. Your boy is going to remember what you taught him above all else. What about how to fix a bike, or change brakes on a car? What about how to fight? What about how to build something? What about how to deal with women?
My father taught me all of the above except for how to deal with women, because even he didn’t seem to know. My father wasn’t part of my life though until I was about 6.
There is something important about that relationship between a boy and his father and too many boys don’t get that these days, and they end up lost. I find, as a father, that my relationship with my boy is one of the most rewarding things ever. I don’t really think it’s a beta trait at all. You aren’t only passing on your DNA. Your legacy in your children is absolutely about your own life, your ideals, and their future. Otherwise…. What’s the point?
I guess that it would be false to say that my father didn’t know how to deal with women. I’d think that he really did. He didn’t know how to remain married to one (meaning that he refused to buckle to modern feminist women). Today, in his senior retirement years, he’s what I would call a MGTOW, but make no mistake that he’s been with lots of women. I think that he just got sick of their bullshit as he got older.
Not but 10 years ago he was banging one of my divorced high school teachers, which I found somewhat amusing in some ways.
I find it important to share some of this with my son, because nobody else will. Who will put him on the right path but his own father? My own mother, in spite of meaning well, was ill-prepared to raise boys. My own son is a reflection of me, and I see it more every day. I refuse to let my son be one of the statistics; Simply average boys who have no interest in applying themselves.
We know now what we didn’t know before. Even you have mentioned that you were devastated by some of the trials that you’ve experienced in life. I think that it’s molded you into a bit of a hardass (with all due respect). I don’t know what your relationship is with your kids. Maybe it’s the appropriate “alpha” response to act indifferent towards them. I’m not entirely sure that’s right for everyone in every situation. But I know, after being raised by a single mother, that I don’t want the same thing for my own boy. I fought to keep him in my life and, generally speaking, I won, and will continue to win. He is me. My legacy. He loves and respects me, and needs me to be there for him to help him to become the best man that he can be.
I just had a deja vu moment of dancer and I at 85 having drinks and sitting on the porch talking smack! Lol! “Here, hold me beer!” Lol!
Sorry, that was random! It’s been a fun late summer night. All of the comments are so dead on, I hope people are learning! As for what women have to offer, that’s a very good question. I have heard good meals, a cozy nest, and good loving are a very good start! But too few today are taught it’s just that simple. Too bad modern messages to women say it’s anything but that…
RPG, here’s the thing. Men can cook. We can clean. We can do laundry.
These are not things a woman brings to the table. At all. I know the society joke that men can’t do these things but the reality is we can but we would rather not. We should be using our time in moving our families forward. And that lies the problem for most beta fucktards. They aren’t.
I had a GF once who thought that was the benefit of having her around. She cleaned my apartment, did my laundry, cooked my meals…and we didn’t live together. She was even getting to the point of buying my groceries.
Only thing is sex was doled out sparingly as the time went on.
I didn’t NEED her for anything other than one thing. The other stuff was a great bonus but I can do those things for myself. As time goes on I am coming around to the idea that RP was right all along. The only advantageous relationship for a man is plating. It’s the only way his true needs are met.
Today there is no way a woman will be sexually available to a man as he needs it or wants it. Therefore having a stable of women is his only option, that or living the life of a monk, or be in a state of sexual dry spells.
A woman expects her man to be 100% on his game for the relationship, his manly duties, then why is it any less expected of a man to his woman? It’s already been said….
can’t make someone have sex.
True…but you sure as fuck can make them do every other damn thing. This is proven time and time again in any relationship. Not only marriage but relationships, in general, are bad deals for men. What’s more? It’s not about to get any better.
Ton, A Dad.
Alphaness is a range of behaviors. Just as AWALT is. Where the Alpha falls on that range is how he will treat his kids. Sure we’d like to pressure all Alphas to take interest in their offspring. I’d argue an Alpha has a responsibility to teach all males in their life (related or not) so that the blue pill idea isn’t perpetuated. This is the only way to combat it.
Yet…I can’t evangelize this and I won’t. As long as the Man is in his frame who is to judge him? We can try but he is pursuing his mission. His life’s goals.
JustAGuy –
When my wife and I were in the process of divorce, she was trying to encourage me to try to meet other women (because she wanted an excuse to start dating ASAP). She was mortified when I told her: “The only thing that most women could offer me is sex.” I thought it was pretty funny to see the look on her face. She’s going to learn the hard way that it’s what most guys are looking for, especially due to her age and what she could offer to someone. I don’t really think that she truly knows how hard it it going to be to find “romance” and marriage again with what she is looking for. Things have changed in 20-30 years, and women just give it away without a commitment. And guys aren’t committing anymore.
Of course, she took the comment way out of context later on, claiming that I said that I “wanted to have lots of sex with strange women”. That is NOT what I’d said. But by then, I was pretty much used to her creating a false reality instead of what really happens; delusions, hamstering, etc.
My wife couldn’t even clean up after herself, and she didn’t want to buy groceries. So at least you had the going for you. She’d pretty much just regressed into an entitled teenager over the course of a few years. It was really weird. But, yeah. Needs to be that if there is no regular sex, then “bye bye”.
On the subject of teaching other men. I’d agree. We all have a responsibility to stick together. I think that there used to be a lot more of that 30-40 years ago or more. Even most grown men seem to be lost now, but I’m constantly surprised when I come across the occasional one that gets it.
It’s because there are no more “men only” areas. These used to be bastions where men could go to learn from each other.
Rollo has written extensively on the subject.
I thought about this yesterday. I’m looking for a new MMA gym and was noticed that female enrollment probably makes up a majority. I’m not against having women there, but there is something different about having comradery among men only; A place to hang out, fight, and meet similar people in similar places in life. I think that both men and women have to be outside of their natural element when in such a case. In the case of some of the ladies, they were more preoccupied with Facebook than training. I’ve also sparred against women in the past. While some of them are competent fighters, I cannot spar with them the same as I would a man, because I would hurt them very badly.
A woman that cooks, cleans, gets shopping, takes care of kids and is loyal / sweet/ kind /lots of sex brings a hell of a lot to the table as a wife.
Men shouldnt ever downplay a woman who embraces her femminine nature. I love those women.
But finding such a woman today is not easy.
I wouldn’t downplay that at all. My ex-wife was like that early on. And when she let the sex go, she let everything else go. It was like a domino effect. Something like this:
/sex
/sweet
/loyal
/cleaning
/cooking
/shopping
/kids
There was nothing left. She basically existed around here for several years, until I said that I’d had enough. My kid was old enough that she could no longer use him as a weapon to control the relationship. There was no way that she could take him out of my life and not have him resent her for it later.
Don’t let things get that far. There is no turning back. To be honest, even her father recently told me that she wasn’t motivated when younger. She put on a nice disguise when she wanted something from me, but took it all off after she got what she wanted.
Regarding the sex. She always was incredibly self-conscious, for a number of reasons. Never was comfortable with her body. This got even worse after having a child, and nothing could convince her that I was happy with her as she was.
A dad
Wasnt suggesting you were downplaying it.
Agree these things can all fall away think it takes big effort and the right woman to aviod this.
but as we now good woman are not common sadly
Ton: “Courts over turn pre nups and what not every fucking day”
Ton is correct. While lawyers will pitch pre-nups as a solution to family law depredations, if you ask them to guarantee you that it’s enforceable (as, say, they will guarantee that if you catch someone breaking and entering, the law will be applied) they will turn white. The same guys, pals, have already been in court breaking pre-nups.
There is one scenario where a pre-nup is reasonably enforceable. That’s when it doesn’t address custody matters is focused on financial issues — and the woman has more money and the man wants some of it. Courts will enforce those contracts.
@ just a guy, agreed. And I would go so far to say (and have written posts on this) that a woman who asks for exclusivity should always be sexually responsive and available to her mate. Even if she isn’t “in the mood.” I know women may recoil in horror at the idea, as used as they are to holding the sex card, but one cannot expect exclusivity and celibacy. Either he’s w you and you meet his needs 100% or he can go elsewhere. One can’t ask for both.
I learned this in my own marriage, my ex had a Madonna whore thing and so would deny me affection and sex for months at a time. So I guess I get how guys would feel. It was terribly painful to be “rejected” in my prime by my own spouse. Not OK. For either side. I suppose the one accommodation would be in periods of extreme illness where it’s just not possible (like hospitalized) but otherwise it’s usually possible, and both spouses should be willing. Always. It doesn’t have to be p in v, there are lots of alternatives. But starving one’s monogamous mate for affection is just not sound relationship strategy! And I know so firsthand. Marriage should NOT equal celibacy.
@ just a guy, as a result of being brainwashed to be a career woman, I am domestically regarded. I can and do like to cook, and I try w the nesting, but it’s not my strong suit. Another reason to make sure my sex game is strong! Lol.
I do think I bring more than that to my current guy’s life, or at least I would hope! But I don’t turn him away and would be ashamed at myself for ever being so cold to him!
I notice no one actually attempted to answer my question, I fear there is not one.
Sex is important yes, but it is freely available without commitment.
As Adad says both sexes casn cook, clean, work, etc. for themselves.
Romantic forever love plainly does not exist.
For the children, odds are 1 in 2 thatone of you will be forcebly removed from them before they are grown.
So I am just looking for one answer. One good sound asnswer.
“THIS!
The common knowledge that romantic love, chivalry, soulmates, fate
DOES NOT EXIST.
This killed the need for relationships, done by both sexes.
After this it is all a shame, a game, a distraction.
WHY BOTHER??
Honestly, I am asking you all, seriously give me a reason in light of this
Why Bother??”
“I learned this in my own marriage, my ex had a Madonna whore thing and so would deny me affection and sex for months at a time. So I guess I get how guys would feel. It was terribly painful to be “rejected” in my prime by my own spouse. Not OK. For either side.”
RPG – That’s just so weird. I can’t even understand why a guy would do this, even after going through the rejection from my ex. It’s a horrible experience. And these same sorts of people wonder why their relationships don’t work out. I think that some people are just dysfunctional but they think that it’s completely normal and refuse to get help, for the sake of their relationship.
Rejection, from a spouse, really beats you down. You’re torn between your commitments and the misery of them being unable to keep theirs. Then you get blamed for it, in some way or another. Makes me realize how glad I am to finally be out of that hell.
agree.
experienced the same thing in my first marriage 😦
@ a dad, yeah I always wondered where he was getting his needs met… but was too afraid to find out. What guy in his 20s is celibate for months at a time? (Answer, none.) he had been sexually abused by a step brother as a child but refused to discuss it or acknowledge that maybe… that had an impact? To that it was his fault or am I criticizing how he dealt w his abuse but it was not good for our marriage to avoid it all, either. I wish I had been more red pill aware at the time, not sure it would have helped, but it would not have hurt anyway.
It sucked for both of us, but I really felt the need and there was no legitimate way to get that need met wo going outside my marriage, which is not me. So I white knuckled but how unfair and sad is that? Not that it was all about me but… totally an unfair thing to ask in an exclusive relationship.
RPG -. I’ve mentioned a few times they my ex-wife was sexually abused by a family member. It’s terribly destructive to their ability to have a normal relationship. She insisted that it wasn’t part of the problem, but I disagree. She just didn’t want to deal with it or take ownership of the problem. At some point, you’ve got to recognize that there are things in that person that you cannot fix. You might wait for years for them to try to do it, but you might also be setting yourself up for even more heartache. It’s incredibly painful how the hurt just carries on from one person to the next.
@ a dad, indeed. My ex insisted “that didn’t affect me” and the reality is that it did. (Of course, how could it not?) And his not facing it affected us both, and his child. But I wish him health and healing. I hope he has faced his inner demons since. And part of me wishes I had known then what I know now. Maybe the outcome would still have been the same but just the same….
Maybe it would help Maybe not. I often think that some aspect of a better understanding of gender nature would have fixed some of the problems but that’s just me trying to take ownership for my part. Some guys around here would say that it’s up to a man to control and correct the situation, but I don’t know that it’s that simple. Too many factors. It sounds as though we both hold onto the “what ifs”. Maybe it’s best to just let it go and focus on what’s next. It still hurts even after dealing with it for years, and now that she’s gone I would think that it’s over. But it’s not. It takes time to work through these things.
@a dad, getting divorced was never the plan and I stuck in for 15 year. I am now almost 10 years past that now. I realized the other day my 25 year would have been next summer. Very weird. I would have given anything to make it work, but it did not. Hard to reconcile. But I guess wo that I would not know this? Hard to say… it is what it is…
the one who says, ‘no,’ holds the power.
Just wanna make a comment. To all the men who take the white-knight … its weak men, pussified men … who created this mess. Weak men who let women run amuck and screw everything up. I address this to you.
I got one thing to say. Go down to your local family court. There are dozens, hundreds, thousands of men getting raped down there every day. Like TODAY. If you think THE MEN THAT CAME BEFORE YOU WERE WEAK PUSSIES WHO DIDN”T HOLD UP THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN … WELL DUDE … GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Yeah … you got it … PUT YOUR MONEY WERE YOUR MOUTH IS. All those men down there getting raped today. EFFING DO SOMETHING TO HELP THEM, TO CHANGE THINGS.
You know. Call the judges out. Call the lawyers out. Get the media to call attention to the divorce rape going on all around you, every single day. Call your legislator and don’t that NO for an answer. The city counsel. The board. Politicians. The local Sheriff. Pass some laws that actually treat men FAIRLY !!!! Run for office you lying pathetic faggot. You got money … donate to a cause. And if all else fails … volunteer !!!
Or how about … confront the cops arresting men just trying to be a father to their own children. Confront cops arresting men for not paying child support. Confront judges putting men in prison because they can’t pay child support. JUST GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING !!!
Wanna know who the pussified faggots who … let this happen ? Look in the mirror dude, its dude’s just like you. Most most of them were men who just made a rational decision. To save themselves. It wasn’t worth the risk. And most of them did not call other men pussies. Like the white knight faggots like to do.
Hope the men here get it … especially the dude here who this comment is aimed at. Its easy to blame other men … while you sit in your comfy chair and do absolutely nothing. Its called being a hypocrite.
Just sayin. Going to bed … good night !
You know, I have 2 other pet peeves about dudes who blame the men that came before us as being weak pussies for allowing the changes in society to be made … while they stand around and do nothing.
#1 … you do realize that you are blaming your own father and grandfather and uncle right ? And you do realize that NOBODY ever came them and asked for them to approve the changes being made … right ? Nobody ever allowed them to decide if they agreed with No Fault Divorce, Alimony laws … or changes to Child Custody. Nobody asked them … right ? And even if they did … what power did they have ? Your state decides to implement No Fault Divorce and you don’t want it … what power do you have to tell them No ???
And the biggest one is #2 … Nobody knew what these changes would mean … how they eventually would turn out. For example … Female birth control. Lots of men thought it would be a great thing … we didn’t realize that it would turn the balance of power in favor of women. And lots of these changes were small too … the impact of any one change ? Who knew ? And the impacts … were not known … for years … and sometimes decades even. So again … who knew ? Who knew these changes would turn most attractive women under the age of 30 into a slut ? Who knew that 60% of women would end up overweight or 1/4 of all women over 40 would get so screwed in the head … they’d end up on anti-depressants ? Who knew that the only rational choice left for men … would be to check out and ignore women … for their own very safety ? Who knew ???
I just hate these white knights who blame other men … for letting it happen … MEN SHOULD JUST SUCK IT UP … BECAUSE THEY HAVE ONLY THEMSELVES TO BLAME !!! Just hate that shit … because its just plain wrong. Women are to blame. Feminists are to blame. The media is to blame. And the huge shift to the left, to socialist ideas … politics, society, culture, economics. All are to blame. Yes, men are a part of it … but only a part.
Off my soapbox now.
@mega I get what you are saying. I guess an analogy would be native Americans. They “should” have killed every person on every boat. Not doing so seemed the right thing at the time, but bc of that choice their whole way of life was destroyed. I think that’s what he wAs saying, not that it’s men’s fault or they wanted it to turn out this way, but by allowing it, the cart was upended in a way that may be irreparable. Native Americans showed mercy but knowing now what that choice meant, would they go back in time and do different? If I were them I would! Even tho that would mean as a descendant of those on the boat I would not be here today if they had. And it is true, nobody has or had a crystal ball in either case. It is what it is. I am not sure fault even matters at this point.
mega – If I’m being completely honest, your red pill awareness hasn’t actually done what you think that it has. You now have the tools to handle life differently than you ever did before, but all you’ve got now is rage and blame. In some respects, regarding your current girlfriend, I even sense fear. You speak that others are blaming everyone but themselves, but you actually post comments that blame fairly frequently.
I don’t know your complete story. You’ve alluded to some of the pain in past posts. I am sympathetic. I truly am, because I and others have gone through it. But it sounds like you’ve got some things that you’ve still not come to terms with. You’ve got some things that haven’t yet been resolved.
We all are to blame because we have to own our own lives. None of it is easy. But that’s the way it all works. Ask yourself this. Do you hate your ex-wife now that you know her true nature? Do you blame her? Or do you blame yourself for the current situation? I ask you this question not to hurt you, or to be condescending. I ask you this because I think that it still eats away at you and I don’t want you to have to feel that way. The rage is like a cancer. You might project it on someone else, but it ultimately just eats you from the inside out.
Maybe we all handled things to the best of our abilities at the time. Sometimes things seem like the right decisions. The only thing that you can do is examine it and retrospectively correct it in the future. This experience has taught me many new things and has given me a new outlook on my future. I could let it destroy me, but I could also choose to reach my greatest potential as a man, father, etc. Finding RP and accepting the truth is very different than raging or crying in pain and wondering “How could she do this to me? That lying @&*^!”. We’ve got the tools now. We can step up and own it or suck down the purple pill and cherry pick the parts that we like.
Side note. I would recommend that you get more sleep, based upon your post timestamps. It really does wonders to fix the mind and body and you can’t physically and mentally grow without it.
Horseman, I definitely and wholeheartedly believe in romantic love. I live it everyday and it is hard to describe how fulfilling it is. Definitely thankful I married a good man.
Waited a few days to cool off. And didn’t. So lets just say … fuck it … ain’t happening. So “A Dad” realized the pathetic fucking loser I was ranting about was him. OK, cool. And my post showed that his arguments that “it was all just men’s fault anyway for being pussies” and they “should just man up” … was complete and utter bullshit. “A Dad” is an arrogant prick … who is just plan wrong.
Because how did he respond to his arguments being shown to be bullshit ? Logic ?
Reason ? Rational discusion ? Maybe refuting my logic to show that maybe I was wrong ? Oh .. no way … PERSONAL ATTACKS !!! Now … suddenly … I’m ANGRY and the RP doesn’t work the way I think it does and I actually am AFRAID OF MY GF.
Listen you pathetic mangina fucking douche … YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME … SO STOP WITH YOU CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE AND YOUR FUCKED UP PSYCHOBABBLE.
And just to show “A Dad” how wrong he is … RPG … Ms Bloom … nailed it … while he shit in his pants. The Native American situation … is indeed a good analogy. Knowing what happened to Native American cultures … if given the choice … they should have slaughtered every man, woman, and child who got off the boats invading their lands. But they didn’t. AND IF GIVEN THE CHOICE TODAY … THEY WOULD MAKE THE VERY SAME DECISION. Why ? Because … its called genocide. Its considered a war crime and crime against humanity. All civilizations know this is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Ethnic cleansing = EVIL. Native Americans know this as well. So even knowing how it would turn out … would they murder everyone showing up on their shores ??? Of course not. Just like men running Western Society would not condemn women to the dark ages when they asked for Voting Rights or Equality. Men today … given the situation 25 years ago, 50 years ago, 75 years ago … WOULD HAVE ACTED EXACTLY THE SAME. Because men are human …
And example #1 is “A Dad” … who is too much of a pathetic faggot to put his own words into action. Dude … so why aren’t you using all those magical “tools” we now have available to make a difference. To reset the laws. To get equality for men ?
What “A Dad” refuses to admit is that he’s got skin in the game. Yes, he knows things are screwed up. He might have an idea how to fix things. He has no power to do so. And attempting to do so … comes at great risk to him. So why upset the apple cart, bring pain and grief into his life when he has nothing to gain. IT AIN”T THAT BAD !!! So he goes along with it. That’s normal, human behavior … ONLY A DAD IS A FAGGOT WHO BLAMES HIS FOREBEARERS. YEP … HE BLAMES THEM … WHILE ACTING EXACTLY LIKE THEM. Is that fucked up … why yes it is.
“A Dad” – the men that came before you … were exactly like you. Blaming them … while you are a fucking coward who refuse to do shit for other men … makes you nothing but a fucking hypocrite. Or maybe worse. Beside putting men down for doing exactly what you are doing … you pretend to take the moral high ground … YOU”RE BETTER THAN THEM … when you’re not. You’re worse.
And … here’s a clue … monitoring a dude’s posting history, and judging him based on his posting times … raises more than just a few red flags. Trust me. Women would call this behavior … being a deranged, delusional, stalker-freak … a weirdo to just stay the hell away from.
Kinda surprised nobody has weighed in on “A Dad”‘s fucked up response. Where the hell is Deti when you need him … I’m sure he could rip dad to shreds.
So now that I’m pissed at being attacked … maybe I should just stay the hell away from here. Or maybe Bloom should just ban people going on personal attacks on other posters. Because for sure I’m not taking that lying asshole’s shit.
Oh and news for all … I”M NOT AFRAID OF MY GF … ALL 5-2 and 120 LBS OF HER.
Mega – I was about to post a pretty detailed response about how my post was an attempt to be sympathetic to your pain / rage, but…
Meh.
Oh go fuck yourself … another condescending lying asshole.
So you lying pathetic faggot … please inform this blog … of all your attempts to use all these awesome tools we have available to make things right. THAT RIGHT … TELL US WHAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY DONE TO STICK UP FOR OTHER MEN. TO CONFRONT THE SYSTEM. TO INVOKE CHANGE. TO REQUEST CHANGE. TO DEMAND CHANGE.
One fucking thing you have done to improve the situation for men ?
And no you fucking lose … psychobabble on a blog doesn’t count. Neither does cutting off your own dick and selling it to the collective so you can pretend to be a parent to your own child.
I’m still trying to figure which post said that I said that “it’s all men’s fault for being pussies” and that we “should just man up”. Because if I said those things it would have only been to reference or mock something someone else said. You don’t seem to quote though. You just paraphrase and hide behind a veil while throwing insults without actually referencing a person until they call you out on the rage.
So be honest with me. What is it that is really causing the rage and blame, because red pill doesn’t seem to have set you free?