Once upon a time, people got married, built a life, had children, and grew old together. It wasn’t perfect, but it mostly worked.
Then came divorce and the idea that commitment meant something like, “as long as you feel like it.” Marriage, the way it was, became extinct.
And things were never the same again.
The end.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
That post has so many errors in it. I hope you manage to interpret it.
Not everyone get married by dating; like me for example. I was engaged before I took her on a date.
i’d love to hear your story if you’d like to share it 🙂
We may have gotten sidetracked. The point that Roosh was trying to make is that dating was effective for him as a cover for seduction. Along with most men, I am pretty confused.
I heard from another source, that the the Tinder app that allows women to bash men is for real and that a woman married less than a month signed on to try it out.
Guys, I think that we are being played.
Ame,
The really short version is; we were neighbors for 2 years at college. Over those two years we became good friends. At the end of the second year of being neighbors a few things got me to notice her in a new light. So I asked if there could ever be more than friendship between us. Her answer was: No. So I moved on, and she spent the next moth doing some things, she thinks are very embarrassing, to get me to pick up the topic again.
At that point we become a couple and shortly there after we started talking marriage. After we started talking about marriage, I stated something like this “since we are going to get married I should take you on a real date”. So a night or two later I took her to dinner and a hike (I think).
The strange thing about being her neighbor for two years before our relationship started. I personally know, not just know about, every guy she ever kissed and I can tell you more or less when it happened. Heck, I encouraged her relationship with one of them.
Fuzzy,
Roosh, indicated that he used dating to get sex and that know he has figured out that dating is not a good way to meet the woman he wants.
You can only be played if you allow it.
We may have gotten sidetracked.
lol! we kind live ‘sidetracked’ out here, don’t we, Fuzzie 🙂
goFigure,
i’m going all-girly here … i love it! that’s a great story 🙂
she spent the next moth doing some things, she thinks are very embarrassing, to get me to pick up the topic again.
*giggle* … i think many girls can relate to that 🙂
GoFigure,
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Fuzzie, I would love to hear the backstory, I think I missed where that quote came from in the comments though?
“Why does a man take a wife? Because life is hard, and two sets of hands are much better than one. Plus the farmers you can create with a wife, that can help til the land. Find someone that the community admires and thinks is honorable and join together in building a life for yourselves out of the nastiness that is life outside of the Garden.”
I think men want to be loved. Even if they pick a wife for all the benefit of having a business-like partner to help them manage everything, at the end of the day, it’s probably infinitely better and happier overall, if they know she truly loves him.
I like seeing couples in love. Even ones I don’t agree with or particularly even like… there’s something about a couple in love that is just awesome to see.
DATING? as in spending money on a girl you don’t know for something you don’t need for a questionable possible outcome? um, oh hell no. I just bought mine, cash on the barrel head, had her gift wrapped and shipped to my apartment..done!
“Understand that my take is from one person, that is very introverted. I would guess that more extroverted people have more fun with dating and it may work for them much better than it does for the introverted people”
Aww yes, I’m sure it’s very different for introverts compared to extroverts. I think I’ve mentioned this before at spawny’s, but my husband and I are strange – I don’t think we fall into either intro/extrovert. Maybe we should take a test LOL… ?
He’s definitely more of a home-body than I am. I like going out and being around people and such.
And goFigure, that is awesome you took your wife for a hike on y’all’s first official date. That’s a particular kind of person who dares to do something like that for a “date” lol! I’m guessing y’all are really athletic? Did she like the hike?
We went on hikes when we were dating… so much fun! But I’ve had girly friends who thought the guy was nuts for thinking a hike was appropriate lol. I also have a friend who thought the guy was crazy but liked him so much she went anyway 😀
Stephanie,
It has passed into legend, but Robert E. Lee’s staff was invited to dinner before Second Manassas. A junior officer had a married woman for a dinner companion and they got on very well. Her husband was out West. At the conclusion of the dinner, he wanted to convey his interest without inspiring jealousy or hard feelings, so, all he could do was to ask, “Are there any more like you still at home?”
Sorry everyone a new post will be coming soon, thanks for keeping things going in the meantime. So roomie decided to bounce today when after 30 days we added up her hours works ($150) vs our agreement ($400). It was amicable and she informed me she’s renting a room from my fried who is sucker for a hot mess. When I texted him to say “good idea!” He said he’d offered but not realized she’d decided. Enjoy the spontaneity, I say! 😉 for me anyway it’s a relief, no drama or hard feelings. And maybe she’ll cute him of his attraction to hot messes better than me warning Jim ever could? Time will tell. Allstate well that ends well (for me!)
* oops that was:
And maybe she’ll cure him of his attraction to hot messes better than me warning him ever could? Time will tell. All’s well that ends well (for me!)
“It was amicable”
LOL Bloom, that’s amazing coming from that one!
Ephiphany time.
The only definition of love
“Regularly taking action that is uncomfortable, effort or against your own interests for another without prompting or expectation of reward.
To expend effort or endure hardship ongoing to improve the needs or wants of another regardless of why they want it because you want them to be better.”
Forget saying I love you, words are cheap
Forget emoting it cause feelz are transitory and easy to have
Forget chores, running the basics of life would need to be done regardless.
Forget heroics, one time gestures. Anyone “would die for you.” Would you work in the mines or shovel shit for them?
Parents protect, tutor, drive to practice their children. Many work their jobs long after their own needs are met to provide for the other.
The test of life is “doing what needs to be done.”
The test of love is “doing what They need to be done.”
RPG,
Congratulations on Roomie! She is on the way out and no hard feelings. If you do rent out rooms, this will not always happen. You do have a way of coming up smelling like a rose.
excellent Horseman. Excellent.
The test of life is “doing what needs to be done.”
The test of love is “doing what They need to be done.”
YES.
years ago i read this piece where the question was asked, “What did your Mom do that let you know she loved you?”
that has stuck with me in every area but especially as a Mom. and it’s interesting to ask my kids what i do that lets them know they are loved. i’ve change some things over the years to adapt to that.
I think men want to be loved
……
Men want to be feared, respected and laid. Boys want to be loved
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/10/18/menprovement/
RPG – Is hot mess guy the orbiter that you talked about in “It’s a trap!”? Sounds like a perfect match, if so.
Brutal truthbombs from Ontario based Sandman
Ame et al
Yes as a mom.
But watch what men and women supposedly in love to each other let alone FOR each other.
Should be
Watch what men and women supposedly in love DO to each other let alone FOR each other.
In the video Sandman fixates on sexbots. Ignore that.
The important points is, whatever the catalyst is, that it IS foreseeable that enough men just go mgtow or other forms of female rejection to have massive impact.
His description of the personal and social fallout is bang on.
Also many men have wanted to respond to the dear future husband but it is not deemed acceptable.
Ton is right.
However you can be feared, respected and laid without a LTR.
Actually for most men, particularly without a LTR.
Watch what men and women supposedly in love DO to each other let alone FOR each other.
yes. i have. and i try to keep myself in tune to what I do to and for my Husband … do my actions reflect what i believe and choose?
DATING? as in spending money on a girl you don’t know for something you don’t need for a questionable possible outcome? um, oh hell no. I just bought mine, cash on the barrel head, had her gift wrapped and shipped to my apartment..done!
ahhh, Larry! ever the romantic! lol! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Horseman,
I think what women can take away from the Sandman video is that men aren’t going to take all this lying down. There will be an equal and opposite reaction.
It was purely guy instinct (and good advice here) that prompted me to ask roomie to keep a log of her hours, which I initialed. I have not felt any need to do so w Dancer, who more than contributes help and labor. Such a contrast. I almost feel like a guy comparing two potential lady companions after all this! Now I get it! Roomie is a “next!”
More to the point, Roomie is a “Whew!”
Fuzzie I think the roomie door is closed. Maybe in a weird way, after many years of resisting the option, Roomie cracked the door for Dancer, who has been a big help. I doubt I would get so lucky again so the inn is full!
RPG,
You had one big thing working in your favor. You lived there full time. A lot of my problems seemed to come up while I was at work. Very mysterious. Best to leave well enough alone. I hope that Dancer continues to be an asset until she moves in with her beau.
Riffing on what Ton said…
Interestingly, men are commanded to love their wives, but the meaning of the word is to hold them accountable. Women are not commanded to love their husbands, they are commanded to submit to him (accept his accountability) and to RESPECT him.
Toad,
You may be reading too much into Paul. While I can’t read Attic Greek, it is my guess that Paul is asking men to not neglect their wives.
This kind of bothers me because present day red pill dogma does not allow for agency or free will on the part of women. This relieves them of responsibility. I think that this is entirely wrong. If it were true, how could women rebel and why would Paul go to the trouble of telling women to do anything?
Fuzzie, I’ve written on that extensively.
You need to read Numbers 30 and then tell me how much agency a virgin or a married woman has. Zero. The problem is when the husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the church, it’s natural to ask if there are any examples of *how* Christ loves His church. Revelation 3:19 is clear: “Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. Be zealous therefore and repent!” If you want some real fun, do a word search on “discipline” and you find out it means to spank them like a disobedient child.
Wives are commanded to submit, but the word submit does not mean obey. Obedience is a subset of submission, which means to accept the accountability of their husband, which also means accepting his discipline when they choose to disobey.
As to responsibility, following the fall in the Garden, God declared women incompetent and placed their husbands (or fathers) as their guardians. Again, read Numbers 30 from the standpoint of a guardian-ward relationship and you will understand. Men have far more responsibility than you can possibly imagine.
Again, I’ve written about this on my blog extensively. God created hypergamy and in saying that the husband will rule over his wife, the men have the backhanded command to be fit to rule if they want their wife to desire them.
Stop overthinking this.
Stephanie,
I not sure if we went on a hike on that first date or not. Memory is not that good.
But we did plenty of hiking before and after that date. Our last bit of hiking was this summer with the 4 kids. Our 5 year old made it on a fairly easy 5 mile hike up in the Colorado Rockies this summer. The only problem we had was; we have not invested in rain gear yet.
Toad,
I read it. Numbers 30 refers to the husband or father’s authority to negate any obligation that their daughter/wife enters into. It doesn’t declare women incompetent.
Feminism up until the third wave kept demanding more authority and responsibility for women. With the third wave, they have done everything they can and invented whole lot of excuses to duck responsibility. What gets to me is that Red Pill dogma is complicit in letting them escape responsibility and is enabling this.
To hear Red Pill men talk about this, women can’t be trusted with watching children.
How is it to be a tool of feminism, bending observable fact and the Holy Bible to advance their cause?
“Our last bit of hiking was this summer with the 4 kids. Our 5 year old made it on a fairly easy 5 mile hike up in the Colorado Rockies this summer.”
Wow!!!!!! So impressed!!! We need to get back into stuff like that eventually … lol not sure when that “eventually” will be but one can hope 😀
Geez… 4 kids and getting even a FIVE year old to hike!!!!! That is amazing!
I know women weren’t commanded to love their husbands, but I always thought that was because the wives would **already** be in love with their husbands. So there wasn’t a need for that command. ?
I’m so shocked it didn’t work out with the deadbeat woman. Performance reviews are winning.
She’ll be back, though. It won’t work out at her current flop, and she’ll be back. So be prepared to handle that.
Stephanie, romantic love as a foundation on which marriage is built is a very, very recent construction. I believe that, in many ways, it’s incompatible with the traditional view of marriage. I love being around my happily-married friends, but it seems like only 10 percent of my married friends fall into that category. Nine out of 10 are “making it work.” That’s commendable, but it’s a true joy to be around a couple that is happy and digging each other.
@Stephanie: “I know women weren’t commanded to love their husbands … ”
Folks who make “husbands love, wives respect” a major issue have an agenda different from the one the Bible pushes. Consider:
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, … (Titus 2:4; kjv)
The husband / wife relationship is a reflection of the relationship between Christ and the Church.
Jesus says: “if you love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). The groom is saying to his bride “if you love me, keep my commandments”. Elsewhere the groom tells his bride that she is neither hot or cold, only lukewarm, so he will spew them out of his mouth (Revelations 3:16)
This is the word of the lord, as revealed in the Bible: the wife is supposed to love her husband. The husband is supposed to love his wife. Full stop.
Love is a verb.
Re. your response to my question about why a man takes a wife: That was spoken in the context of the last however many thousand years of human existance. Life is hard. (2nd Law of Thermodynamics) It is not good for man to be alone. (God) Partner up. It makes the work that is life less onerous. That is a far better justification for partnering up than “being in love” Feelings come and go, many times based on the ebb and flow of hormones over life. You want to stake a 70-year journey together on something that may change tomorrow? What I have laid out is more enduring, particularly when both partners vow to honor God’s claim on their lives (no divorce – because of what God said, not because of my feelings toward my spouse).
Note that I also admitted above that, for a relationship to thrive (not just survive), there needs to be sexual tension. They need to be at least a little bit hot for each other. But that hot for each other pales in comparison to the long term affection and “having each others back” that grows over time.
You said: “… it’s probably infinitely better and happier overall, if they know she truly loves him.” Yeah, that’s where the trouble starts. You are talking feelings here. Feelings change. Which I’m guessing every guy who has ever had the heart of a girl has experienced. There are some fairly long posts around Dalrock’s and Rollo’s place that examine the question of whether a woman is able to love a man in the way he wants to be loved.
You said: “I like seeing couples in love. Even ones I don’t agree with or particularly even like… there’s something about a couple in love that is just awesome to see.” Ever see that love you like to see in a couple that are not sexually attracted to each other? The love you are talking about is feelings that spring from hormonal activity. That is an important part; it’s what gets babies made. But that is not what keeps the family together for 60 years (give or take a few). The love and commitment that does that is something else entirely. And that love is not necessarily there at the very beginning.
Love is a verb.
Said the groom to his bride – if you love me, keep my commandments. Implying that, if you don’t keep his commandments, you don’t love him. What has that to do with testosterone and estrogen??
I have no doubt it won’t work bv, but she won’t be back. “Not my problem!”
“Not my monkey; not my circus!”
New post finally! https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2017/10/19/russian-guys/
@Stephanie:
“I think men want to be RESPECTED. Even if they pick a wife for all the benefit of having a business-like partner to help them manage everything, at the end of the day, it’s probably infinitely better and happier overall, if they know she truly RESPECTS him.”
Fixed it for you.
For Stephanie and any others who might be interested.
From the Anglican Common Book of Prayer, 1559 edition – the three Biblical purposes for which God created marriage.
1. Creating children and raising them in the fear of the Lord;
2. Sexual outlet, to forstall sexual sin;
3. Mutual comfort and companionship
a. Notice that love is nowhere mentioned as a Biblical purpose for marriage. Because
b. Marriage is the context within which love takes root and grows, rather than;
Love is the reason why we marry. Biblically, love is not the reason why we marry.
This provides a reasonable basis for a Biblical response to the question “how will I know that I love someone enough to marry them?”
The second half of the first paragraph at this link:
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1559/Marriage_1559.htm
when my Husband tells me the things he likes about me, it always includes … how i look at him and how i treat him and what i do for him ~ all meaning how what i do reflects how i respect him. if he says it’s that i love him it’s said, “I can tell you love me because you do _____ for me,” which reflects that i respect him.
A friend of mine who is a therapist says if men have to choose between love or respect, they would choose respect. For women it’s the reverse.
A friend of mine who is a therapist says if men have to choose between love or respect, they would choose respect. For women it’s the reverse.
every.single.time.
thinking about this … ‘love’ given from a woman’s pov is how she feels at any given time, which is wishy-washy and undependable … and men know this. but respect is solid, unchanging. it either is or it is not. and all people know this.
‘love’ received from men to women is also solid and constant – not based on feelings or wishy-washy emotions, but on what is. men are able to love like this. solid. constant. consistent. purposeful.
I thought about this conversation for awhile with my husband… he does like feeling loved by me he said… but I also really really respect him. So maybe it all gets conflated in our marriage I don’t know? It’s not a problem or anything I’m trying to figure out, just wondering how so many men view it this way (not wanting to feel loved by their wife). But I DO understand the respect thing.
And Richard’s comment was great about obedience being love! I use that line from Jesus on my oldest ALL the time lol. So I know what he’s talking about there I think.
This song is kind of what came to mind when discussing this:
My husband has felt all those emotions at times… and yes, I still choose him and “love” him.
So it’s confusing to me.
it’s Respect, first. if you didn’t respect him, all the rest wouldn’t matter. but since you do respect him, and you’ve proven that over time, the rest matters 🙂
if you ever stopped treating him with respect then all you’ve built would be destroyed. and he would remember it. and the way he experiences your ‘love’ for him would never be the same again.
Stephanie – just so I know that I wasn’t misinterpreted: I included the bit about “if you love me, keep my commandments” as proof that Jesus was expecting his bride to love him. If husband is to wife as Christ is to Church, then we have Biblical proof that wives are expected to love their husbands (along with the scripture exhorting the older women to teach the younger women to love their husbands). That was my focus, not the obedience part. The obedience part is important, but that would be for a different discussion.
To repeat myself – folks who focus solely on “husbands love, wives respect” are pushing an agenda that is not Biblically based. The evidence is there that husbands and wives are to love each other.
Hormones create the feelings that bring the couple together and bond them. Love is a verb. The proper application of that verb is what keeps the pair bonded long-term.
Stephanie, I “see” the joy in your words about folks who are visibly in love. I understand the feeling that Love Makes the World Go Round . I also understand all I have said in this thread. Hormones and the feelings triggered by them are an unreliable thing to depend on for a lifetime of creating something worthwhile together. Rather, it is that vow to honor God’s claim on your lives (no divorce) that provides that solid foundation against the changing tides of fortune and emotion. Dietrich Bonhoeffer sums it up with this quote: “It is not your love that sustains the marriage, but from now on, the marriage that sustains your love.”
I enjoy your enthusiam – for life and for people.
“If I Told You” – awesome song. Credit where credit is due. From Wikipedia:
“If I Told You” is a song recorded by American country music artist Darius Rucker. It was released to radio on July 5, 2016 as the first single from his upcoming fifth country studio album,
When Was the Last Time, set for release on October 20, 2017.[1]
(That was today about 9 minutes ago.)
The song was written by Ross Copperman along with Shane McAnally and Jon Nite.
The song reached No. 1 on the Country Airplay chart for the week of June 24, 2017,
i had not heard that song yet – great song!
“if you ever stopped treating him with respect then all you’ve built would be destroyed. and he would remember it. and the way he experiences your ‘love’ for him would never be the same again.”
OK… that makes sense!
And Richard thanks! Your comments are always really interesting to me and a little hard to understand for some reason. I’m not that smart lol… 😉 but they make me think about things from a different perspective – like looking through a kaleidoscope.
@Ame”
if you ever stopped treating him with respect then all you’ve built would be destroyed. and he would remember it. and the way he experiences your ‘love’ for him would never be the same again.
Yes. This. A THOUSAND times this.
@Ame:
Just following up on this:
if you ever stopped treating him with respect then all you’ve built would be destroyed. and he would remember it. and the way he experiences your ‘love’ for him would never be the same again.
All I can tell you is this:
When a man’s wife or long term woman disrespects him one too many times, whatever existed before is completely destroyed. Gone. Whatever he felt for her – gone. Whatever he was willing to do for her before, he’s no longer willing to do, or capable of doing. Everything. Gone. Leveled. Not one stone left standing on stone.
And he never forgets it. Oh, he can forgive. He can move on. You can even move on together. But the things you said, the things you did, to destroy it all, are never forgotten. Not ever. Some things you say, you cannot unsay. You can’t take them back. Some things you do cannot be undone. That history will always be there. Always. It will never ever go away. It will always color the way he sees you. You will be forever different to him.
He can, and probably will, get past it eventually. Your relationship might survive. But whatever it was before will not be again. You will have to reconstruct everything. What is built back will not look like what was before. Many times, it will not look anything like what it was before. And you will have to live with that. Or not.
A man can take a lot of disrespect from a woman. And he can go a long time with it. But when you get to “too much” or “one too many times”, it’s done. DONE. OVER. You’ve knocked it all down, destroyed it all. And whatever was before, will never be again.
Perhaps a little food for thought for the womenfolk as they wisely and prudently consider their men.