One of the early lessons I learned from the manosphere was about solipsism, and how the female mind just naturally views things personally.
I was repeatedly reminded during some of the more raw red pill discussions that, “It isn’t about you.” And it really wasn’t, I eventually realized.
But at first it was hard for me to not take general discussions personally or to simply open my mind to what was being discussed rather than viewing it thru my own personal experience.
One time in particular the discussion about how single moms were perceived in the dating and marriage marketplace. I took all that really personally, and fought tooth and nail trying to defend single moms and myself in particular. I wasn’t listening, although in time I came to realize that while I didn’t like the idea, either as a child of a widowed mom or as a then single mom myself, that it really is true that dating or remarrying is different for a woman with children than without. It simply is.
Once I got past the personal, I was able to objectively take that information and implement strategies and behaviors that helped me put myself into the shoes of a potential mate, and then navigate my approach to the dating and marriage market differently than most single moms.
That is just one example of many. And even to this day I have to consciously step back and view heated or sensitive discussions from an almost third person perspective rather than from my own.
Even as I write this, I notice how often I am using the words, “I, me, mine…” See how easy it is?
Being able to put oneself aside and to really seek to understand first rather than be understood is a very good and valuable skill to develop.
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
This is one of your best posts for me, because I think that it hits home for some of us.
It’s hard not to be bitter, but there are a lot of reasons why a lot of men in the manosphere. I grew up a child of a single mother, and she always tried to say things like “I just wanted the best for you boys…” etc., “Tried to do the right thing…”, etc.
And a lot of young men defended their mothers because they believed it. They believed it when she would say terrible things about their dad. They believed it when she came up with numerous ways to keep them away from their father, who loved them, but was forced out. They believed it because mother would never lie to them, and the media always portrayed single mothers as virtuous and perfect examples of women, who were betrayed by their own men, but were still strong and deserved the help and respect of everyone around them.
But as it turns out, it was all a lie.
And a lot of men can’t let that go, because in spite of promising that they would never let the same thing happen to their own children, they had no choice. It wasn’t up to them.
And this is why men have swallowed the red pill. Because they hurt deeply because they were not only lied to by everyone else, but betrayed by the only two women that they ever loved.
To make matters worse, the situation is encouraged by the welfare state, and the lawyers, court system, that have everything to gain, including but not limited to massive tax incentives by collecting child support (per the federal government). And the feminists have everything to gain because it releases them from all accountability to continue to make the same mistakes in the name of tearing down the “patriarchy” and claiming the vast majority of cash benefits that are paid through the hard labor of the slave man.
In the dark recesses of the Internet, young boys are learning the truth earlier, and they are enraged, attempting to find the father figure that they never had and ultimately turning to the online groups. He acts out because he discovers at a young age that the system is against him and his mother has only betrayed him by leaving him in the hands of the state. The young ladies cannot escape it either, reaching out to also find that man that they never had in their lives, never knowing the meaning of how to truly be a lady, take responsibility for her actions, or learn to protect herself let alone become self-sufficient, only to learn permanent victimhood where she ultimately spirals out of control to her own ruin (and unfortunately ultimately the ruin of her own children).
And in the wake of the divorce, my own mother was the only person that I had left. The only person who probably truly cared about my health and well being. I don’t know that I can still harbor anger with her over what happened when I was young. My own father ultimately found out (we hadn’t spoken for a long time) on the day of my divorce, when he coincidentally texted me after trying to contact him for months. I texted him in response: “I’ll call you back later. I’m in divorce court.”
Evidently he was in tears when I told him. His only response: “Ok”. But we’ve since had a lot of contact and are rebuilding a relationship. Now that I know the truth, I know that he went through many of the same things and it still hurts him nearly 30-40 years later.
I never know a time when my parents were together. I have some very vague memories of that part of my childhood, but they are almost a blur. And even though I wasn’t able to stop the same thing from happening, I was at least able to give my son a good childhood and will be able to help him to learn to be a man; To avoid the same pitfalls, and to have the tools that I didn’t have. I’m still not even sure what that means yet.
I’d also like to reinforce that my opinions on that particular issue of single mothers truly isn’t supposed to be personal. Everyone here knows that you’ve got a different perspective on those matters, and you’ve taken a lot of time to go through great pains to think about the issue. I think that most men just end up in this corner of the Internet after dealing with challenges of dating or divorce. It’s very easy for a guy to say things that might be hurtful towards women of similar circumstance, but Ton said it best last thread: “Lashing out at women often equals nothing more then holding them accountable”. Men have a different perspective on this because they are either forced to be accountable by biological nature or the system ultimately forces them to do it. From what you’ve posted, you either seem to have been born with more accountability than most women or you simply developed it over the years after dealing with the hard pains of a career and raising children on your own. Even my own mother’s views (and religion) changed after going through similar circumstances; Widowed mother, divorce(s), raising two children There are several parallels.
In my own case, as I still try to recover before even considering dating, I’m trying to determine which sorts of boundaries that I must ultimately set and then stick to them. I’m still confident that every remarrying would be a massive mistake for me. My indifference towards most single mothers is largely rooted in my own experience, my own long-term goals, and my expectations that I (and the children) could never have the same experience as “surrogate dad”. it’s neither fair to them, nor is it fair for me. If we (as men) keep accepting this as the new normal, nothing will ever change. It’s clear that most women will not stop, so we have to before it all crashes and burns.
I’m not saying that every woman doesn’t deserve a second chance, but most don’t and should not be given one if we expect change. I would say the same for a man who walks out on his family. Does he also always deserve a second chance? Most women have more options by nature, and the dating pool is huge for beta bux if that’s what a woman wants. Men want a dedicated and loving companion and sexual partner, and require little more. Do women hate this? Perhaps only if they’ve been brainwashed into thinking that the union is only about getting their own needs met 100% of the time. I tend to believe that mutual cooperation is all that really is required along with attraction, but that seems to be impossible for some.
Oh yeah, definitely. You have to take the emotion out of it. Especially in an argument, once you start getting defensive, you are already losing. The one topic I like learning about is frame. It’s so useful. But more importantly, around these parts it’s important to truly listen and understand, not just wait to respond or win an argument.
@a dad that is very heartfelt, thank you for sharing that. It made me cry actually, I can really relate to the pain you are describing, and how it is so hard to see your own children face it too, even when that was the last thing you ever wanted for them. It’s a loss that’s never “over” in so many ways, too. If you have a chance to have a relationship w your dad now, I hope you will. For me it’s an option I would love to have.
I love my parents but I don’t necessarily look to them for any advice.
A lot of people seem to be going through the same pain. For what it’s worth, both men AND women are being lied to, so it isn’t just a men’s issue. I think that that men just seem to have a greater voice around these parts.
I don’t know entirely what your personal situation is. I hope that your girls have fathers that are eager to remain involved in their lives. It’s really easy for a guy to check out in these cases. Not always because he wants to, but because he feels like he either has to or he has no other options and it may take him a long time to get into a clear frame of mind. Or else he’s just hamstering because he didn’t try hard enough. I have a buddy in a similar situation and I keep trying to encourage him to fight for equal access to be a part of his girl’s life.
A dad both my girls have regular drama free and open contact and time w their dads. I want my kids to have that so I work hard to support it and not push them out or make it hard. I have had people compliment me on that, and I try to influence people in my situation in real life to do the same. Using the kids as pawns only increases the damage and loss. I know women do it but I don’t understand. It’s not about me. I would never ever want to be responsible for coming between them and their dad.
Yeah. Maybe that’s the first step. My ex is really good about it too. Far different than when I was a kid. Maybe our generation(s) got at least part of the message? We make it work even though deep down I think that the whole thing was unnecessary.
yes! if i’ve said it once, i’ve said it a thousand times to my girls, “This world is not all about you. Get over it.”
and if they learn nothing else but that, i will be grateful.
Ame,
For what it’s worth, I say the same thing to my boy. But I think that girls might need it a bit more to counteract the “You’re a little princess!” thing. Today’s boys think that they are special snowflakes too though, at least until they reach a certain age.
if i’ve said it once, i’ve said it a thousand times to my girls, “This world is not all about you. Get over it.”
This is good advice for girls. As a boy, I learned this early
A Dad – my girls can be princesses all they want, but princesses in this house have responsibilities – they are responsible for their behavior, their attitude, and they must act feminine and with respect and gentleness toward one another. the more freedom one has, the more responsibility. nothing is free or without consequence. and … they answer to the king – my Husband 🙂
A Dad, the thought of all these children growing up without both parents at home is heartbreaking. Divorced moms who keep their children’s father away are doing something unforgivable.
When I was a child, I believe I was one of the few kids I knew in an intact home. It seemed everyone was living with their divorced mom, or else their parents were obviously very unhappy (the dad cheating on the mom in at least one case). Some of my friends looked at my parents with admiration, because the happiness they saw was so lacking in their own home. It’s tragic.
“It’s very easy for a guy to say things that might be hurtful towards women of similar circumstance, but Ton said it best last thread: “Lashing out at women often equals nothing more then holding them accountable”.
Holding the ones who are accountable is one thing. Assuming that all are accountable (when they’re not) is another.
When it comes to the anger and blaming, it’s kind of like some of the anger over racism today. I’m not doubting that racism has been very destructive and real. But some people want to blame all white people for all these bad things. I was too young or not even born when many of these bad things happened. I wasn’t raised to behave that way to people of other races. But still, to some, I have white skin, therefore I’m to blame. I know I’m not, so I don’t get into it.
The reason I don’t get into it is that no amount of apologies, no bending over backwards, nothing will ever be enough when someone is that angry and lashing out. If I’m not part of the problem–and I’m not–then continuing to not be part of the problem is all I can do. Trying to reason with that anger is an exercise in futility because no matter what I try to do, it’ll never be enough.
For the men who don’t want to give single moms a chance, I understand that they’re speaking in generalities and it’s not meant to mean every single mom, without exception. There are tendencies and trends that one observes and these are also not meant to mean “everybody.”
And btw it may come as little surprise that the heated discussion I refer to was between me and Ton! I thought he was picking on me at the time but see now that what he was really trying to do was wise me up to the reality I faced. I ended the tiff w asking that we “agree to disagree” and that seemed to work out. Ton is actually IMHO a very good man in a sometimes gruff and perhaps not most diplomatic package. But the underlying message is well intended and often exactly what one needs to hear, but is very much resisting. He’s on my very short list of people whose opinion I trust, even when I don’t like what he’s saying. Believe it or not! Lol. 🙂 so when Ton pisses you guys off, it may be some tough Ton love that is worth a listen!
And it’s always ok to agree to disagree! Better than fighting.
ditto on The Ton 🙂
A Dad – wow, so much packed into these two comments.
My indifference towards most single mothers is largely rooted in my own experience, my own long-term goals, and my expectations that I (and the children) could never have the same experience as “surrogate dad”. it’s neither fair to them, nor is it fair for me.
truth right there. it is never, ever the same. imo – the first rule of step parenting is you are not the parent. you are only the step parent. and there is a huge difference.
single parenting sucks. i hated it. blending a family has been hard work – a lot more give than take. when i’ve tried to tell women these things, they do not hear me. so i don’t badger them. i say my peace and move on. if they don’t have ears to hear, my words certainly won’t change that. my only remorse is for the children. my heart breaks for the children.
it is so hard to see your own children face it too, even when that was the last thing you ever wanted for them. It’s a loss that’s never “over” in so many ways, too.
never. it’s never over. even after he died, it still continues 😦
SO awesome, Bloom … and so wonderful their dads work with you on that! it’s the very best it can be in the circumstances you’re in. lots of kudos to you for realizing that fight is one where no matter who thinks they win, the kids always loose.
also … princesses have to work harder than everyone else to set a higher standard by which others can follow. work harder. always use exquisite manners. always be respectful, gentle and kind. and realize you have to sacrifice yourself for the greater good of your people. or at least that’s how it’s portrayed in our home 🙂
Ame,
I completely agree with your last comment at Nov. 14 5:38AM.
I come from a family where both of my parents remarried. My mother had several husbands who never were really “Dad”, and then I never saw them again after they divorced. My father (who I didn’t know until I was about 6) had a second wife who never was my mother. She had a few kids from a previous marriage. We got along well enough but they divorced after several years and I never saw them again.
That’s another factor. A lot of guys build a life around someone else’s kids. Maybe she leaves him and then he no longer gets to see the kids again because he has no legal rights. Karen Straughan talks about that a lot, how her guy helped to raise another woman’s kids from early childhood, basically as their surrogate father, and then she divorced him and he never got to see them again.
So outside of the financial and practical aspects of it all, there is also the legal aspect. While it might sound cruel to say it, most RP guys would say not to do it. It’s not personal for the ladies here. It’s just the harsh reality. I wish the ladies here all of the best, but things definitely aren’t going to be the same given the circumstances.
A dad, true then there’s that, post divorce life continues to change and relationships come and possibly go and it’s just more instability.
A Dad – this is so incredibly heartbreaking to me. it’s no wonder we have ‘attachment issues.’ so glad neither you nor his mother are abandoning your son.
LOL you were so cute arguing with your girl power about your feelz
As far as women thinking personally, I find it generally true that women have less self-awareness than men. Her example of single moms is just one topic. But I see it as a trend. An example, make the obvious point that women are less interested in sports and some woman will object saying “she” likes sports. Of course, that in no way rebuts the point. The point wasn’t that NO women like sports. Merely that women, taken as a whole, are less interested. A single example is meaningless. For some reason, women seem to struggle with this as a matter of basic logic.
I think the reason is the one identified in this post. They struggle with stepping back and separating themselves personally from any discussion. Everything is about them.
On a related issue, why are women so incredibly defensive about any perceived criticism. They think men are supposed to just take whatever slams they dish out. Actually, more than take it — they need to accept it and acknowledge its applicability. But women? Not in today’s world. Criticism is tantamount to wife-beating. Just not done.
Very true Sam! I know I never noticed it until the guys pointed it out! Then I noticed I was doing it ALL THE TIME!
Agree with all.
But explain to my why with my parents have seven, count em, seven marriages between them and of my eight siblings only three of us are full blood yet I have been married to the same woman for thirty years. Then again her parents are coming up on 50.
Horseman bc you guys are smart! 🙂 every relationship has problems. The problems are just different. That’s who so many people end up multi times married, they don’t get this. Better to stick it out. Well done!