The other day while waiting in the doctor’s office I couldn’t help but overhear when a cute, but not extraordinarily so, gal in her early 30s sitting nearby checked her voicemail on speakerphone.
A male voice said, “Hey, I have been thinking about you and how we should get together soon. I know your kid comes first and everything, of course, but call me back and let’s set something up!”
She rolled her eyes and pushed delete.
I pondered the exchange from multiple angles. Would she someday regret taking such calls for granted? Do nice guys win last? What would he have said differently had he known about the red pill? How would she have viewed the situation if she did? Would she call back? Would he?
Of course we don’t know the backstory, so it’s speculation, but what do you think of the exchange? Please share in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Wonder if good attributes other than being cute she has I do
She didn’t seem very nice was my impression.
Regret ever she will not
For never understand the situation well enough to regret it she will
She hasn’t hit the wall hard enough to become desperate about locking down a beta provider
And that voice mail reeks of beta provider
These days good beta providers aren’t getting harder to find. If he had potential there, she might want to try to lock him down. That would be from her cynical point of view. Probably she doesn’t think that far ahead, for she never has had to.
The message was direct and honest. I guess, after he has waited a reasonable time fore her response that is not coming, he can cross her off his list and ask another.
My father spent a lifetime in sales. His advice was to never ask a question that can be responded to in the negative over the phone. Make them say “No” in person.
As a single mother in her thirties, she should have valued his offer. Honest offers are going to come along less frequently.
It’s simple…she wasn’t interested in him to begin with and is using the kid as the excuse.
Rather than give the poor guy the news…she hopes he gets the hint by realizing she’s not conversing with him. Some guys don’t know that yet.
The ‘call me back and set something up’ line is never a good one if you are trying to fish for her interest. I’ve found getting a more honest answer out of women is already having a date plan in mind and asking her if she wants to join.
‘These days good beta providers aren’t getting harder to find. If he had potential there, she might want to try to lock him down. That would be from her cynical point of view. Probably she doesn’t think that far ahead, for she never has had to.’
Plus women don’t think like men.
She’s already bonded with another man in the past…so he has to overcome that. He most likely didn’t.
My father spent a lifetime in sales.
Wonder what a bear sells I do
Insurance against animal attacks?
‘As a single mother in her thirties, she should have valued his offer. Honest offers are going to come along less frequently.’
I for one am glad a lot of 30 yr old single mothers still think that way. That lucky man dodged a bullet and doesn’t even realize it.
Earl,
You have a good point. By yielding to her vanity, she inadvertently did him a favor.
Here is the misconception most people have. They think single mothers want a partner.
Many say they do, but they really don’t. Two things are going on. First, these women like the control they have over their kid. They don’t want to share it. They like to be “the boss of people.” Second, the kid becomes a surrogate spouse (if he’s a boy) or a surrogate gal-pal (if she’s a girl). So, that kind of rules out bringing a man into the mix.
As such, the level of dysfunction with these women is often higher than people realize. This is not your mother’s single-mom friend who was left at the altar. This is a different breed of women who became mothers “by choice.”
But that’s not the problem, funny enough. The problem is that this type of dysfunctional parent-child relationship is becoming the norm. No one knows up from down anymore in these matters because single parents are all a lot of people ever knew. So, in the Reagan Era, the control-freak mom whose boy is her “little man” would have made people’s stomachs churn but today is considered “normal.”
Where this would be White Knight caller went wrong is that he still thinks its 1986. Time has moved on and so should he.
As for this guy being alpha or beta, we will never know. If he didn’t care one way or the other how his solicitation was taken, that would define alpha. If he was saddened by being shut down, that would be beta.
Her, rolling her eyes over this, does tell us about her arrogance. She would probably be a bad date, and it would get worse if it progressed.
Sounds like a boomerang who she once dated and hadn’t talked to for several months, and wants to come back to. Or a guy she was never into to begin with. Points for leaving a voicemail instead of just a text.
I dont knoe Farmboy, given the ecconmic reality on the ground i would think men who make provider money are getting thin on the ground. Especially given how much money the government will hand out to single moms
Remember this a few years back
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitlement-america-head-household-making-minimum-wage-has-more-disposable-income-family-mak
To add to Dad….
Single mothers love the heroic nature of their struggle…. ie society gives single moms a lot of good press and warm feelz plus they get to ride the cock carousel. It’s the best of both worlds for them.
Is the caller alpha or beta? Would an alpha call “a cute, but not extraordinarily so, gal” back? Only way I can see it is if she was particularly a good fuck. Would a man with pride etc all leave such a weak framed voice mail? Doubtful
Ton,
I made a mistake with the wording. Agreed, beta provider types with good wages are fewer and fewer these days.
That’s what I figured Farm boy, you being a man of uncommonly good sense for a yankee, but I reckon others might not have caught on. Especially women
Sounds like the dude is a little desperate and she’s not that interested.
If I’m right, she’s more interested in tingles and romance than a nice guy. If she’s self-sufficient, she’s definitely not interested in this average guy. She won’t start getting worried until she’s closer to 40.
“Do nice guys win last? What would he have said differently had he known about the red pill? How would she have viewed the situation if she did? Would she call back? Would he?”
Nice guys generally don’t win at all except for that rare circumstance of meeting a truly nice girl.
He shouldn’t call her back at all and should work on being less desperate and more interesting / desirable. I was always mostly successful with women by being disinterested in them, sorry to say. I let them pursue me. But obviously I’m way out of the dating loop now and don’t know the first thing about women at my age. It’s not like I’m 21 anymore.
The kids come first….
….but only for 18 years, maybe 20.
‘Cause They Are Gone!!
(Kids at 30, most important til 50, average lifespan 80.
Women so suck at math.)
Days is absolutely right.
Which is why the irony of the child “divorcing her” at 20 to go live their life independently is so great.
And she gets “child divorced” at fifty odd when she will never ever have anyone in her life again. For twenty plus more years!!
“The problem is this dysfunctional parent-child relationship is becoming the norm.”
This shows your age, DOBA. It is normal and has been normal since the 1990’s.
at least it’s been that way where I grew up in the shit show known as san jose mexifornia.
His greek letter doesn’t matter…we should focus more on the particular woman’s character. If him being ‘beta’ drove that woman away, all the better.
The ‘alphas’ who get caught up with them, have to deal with the blowback of engaging with a damaged, crazy single moms.
Let’s face it…she already had a kid with a guy and he didn’t hang around. Ask that ‘alpha’ what he thinks of her.
Let’s face it…she already had a kid with a guy and he didn’t hang around. Ask that ‘alpha’ what he thinks of her.
…..
Gospel …. sort of. We don’t know if he didn’t hang around or if she flushed him.
‘We don’t know if he didn’t hang around or if she flushed him.’
In either case that’s not a good look for her.
In any event, this is what single men are likely to find out there. That is not very encouraging for any greek letter.
Judgement based on hindsight is not an alpha trait. Alphas know that men can only make decisions based on foresight.
@fuzzie…
Are you talking about men’s decision making with women?
Red Pill dudes know better than to ask out single moms, unless as Ton suggests he’s heard she’s great in the sack. That was a very weak ask, though, so probably not a red pill dude.
That would be a weak ask if she was single, childless, and pleasant.
And I say this, because when I was younger I used to ask like that too. And I wasn’t asking out single mothers. You’d never get the call back.
Earl,
No one can make a decision with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Yet, there are more than a few who will condemn that decision with that benefit.
@earl
Do you honestly believe she thinks she worth less than a single, childless, pleasant woman? Anyway, she seemed to think it was weak, so it was weak.
‘Do you honestly believe she thinks she worth less than a single, childless, pleasant woman? Anyway, she seemed to think it was weak, so it was weak.’
It’s a weak ask to a woman no matter what her state in life is.
Do we always have to make this about finding fault with the guy? For my money, it turned out well for him to not connect with this harpy.
The only fault the guy has is if he happens to find a more suitable helpmate in the future. He can’t keep that same mindset. In an ideal world females would give the guy a little more slack and help him out, perhaps even be flattered he asked her out…but they don’t now.
It saved him here in this case.
The woman should visit these posts
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/humility/
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/09/16/young-sheilas-be-introspective/
We don’t know if he didn’t hang around or if she flushed him.’
In either case that’s not a good look for her.
……..
He can’t keep that same mindset. In an ideal world females would give the guy a little more slack and help him out, perhaps even be flattered he asked her out…but they don’t now.
…………
Legit
Why roll her eyes she did
Unless putting on a show she was
Yoda,
A demonstration of superiority it was. “I can afford to round file men.”
He dodged a bullet. End of.
@ farmboy; you’re being facetious about that, right? You know damn well women aren’t humble or introspective with the rare exception to our blog host here.
You know damn well women aren’t humble or introspective
That is why they should check those posts out
Other than Ash and Bloom we are not getting the female perspective.
To all the lurking ladies, your thoughts.
I come here hoping to see ladies thoughts as a barometer of are things going to change?
By the profound sdilence I can only assume…..No.
Horseman,
I think they may be afraid a bear will bite their heads off. NOT.
I’m not a single mother nor do I know the lady, so I don’t exactly know why she behaved this way. I have noticed that females having children out of wedlock has been a fashion statement in the last 20 years. It boggles my mind how any woman would willingly sign up for that given how much responsibility and time a child needs. Also, moms cannot be dads. A father is absolutely necessary.
As for the Don Juan in question… Well I’m not too worried about him. Young men now a days have a mass marketing tactic. Reach out to as many females as possible to see who will bite. Good of him to leave a voicemail, a more personal touch. Yet it is quite common for a male now to mass text multiple women with the same message. “(Insert name), I’ve been thinking about you.” Their primary goal is sex.
Hopefully that was his intent as well.
Otherwise, maybe he’s looking for a turnkey family. One with a mommy already in place.
Whatever his goal, there are plenty more where she came from.
‘ It boggles my mind how any woman would willingly sign up for that given how much responsibility and time a child needs. ‘
It boggles my mind that women think they can have causal sex with strange men and somehow think pregnancy can be avoided from it. Birth control is not a 100% fail safe and abortion just makes you the mother of a dead child. There’s a reason why sex and marriage go together that is far more than just a morality reason.
This post has made me dwell on the last story from Nekros at J4G. He approached a girl and she recorded it and posted the rejection to Snapchat. This was years ago and I think he was resolved to never approach a woman again. I think that a lot of women would like to exercise that kind of power.
That girl is a bitch. One who is dealing with many internal issues. It is not a reflection of him. I hope he hasn’t given up on women because of one deranged insecure female.
Yes Earl, birth control is not 100% but it is darn close. If done right, its 99% effective. And to be quite frank, the women I knew who had children out of wedlock used no form of birth control.
So did they not use birth control on purpose? Did they not know that it existed?
Love,
Were you referring to the the original post or my story about Nekros? In Nekros’s case, at the time is did sound like he had tossed in the towel for good. In the original post, I think we can be confident that he has tried again with someone else.
The only women who have birth control fail are the ones that “accidentally” forget to take it.
If you discuss it with them, and they actually have a bit of self guilt on the matter, they will reluctantly admit that the accident wasn’t completely an accident at all and that they subconsciously tried to spermjack some idiot.
Teach your boys before they are old enough to never rely on a woman to be responsible with her reproductive system. She will lie to get what she wants, and even will lie to herself to make it seem like the truth. I’ve also known several women who insisted that they could never get pregnant who end up pregnant. Oops!
Farm Boy, sex education has been in the school system for at least 30 years. Colleges pass out condoms regularly along with offering free or close to free medical care… Including prescribing birth control. The ones I knew who had children out of wedlock did so with plenty of resources around them.
Fuzzie, I was referring to Nekros. Hopefully he got back in the game and didn’t let a silly woman deter him from his goals.
@Love
It’s more like 80-90% effectiveness depending on what you use…plus it still doesn’t stop ovulation, it just makes it harder for the fertilized egg to implant in the uterus. The other percentage is the ‘theoretical’ percentage. That’s the false security women think they have with casual sex. There would be no big abortion industry if it wasn’t for a big birth control industry.
https://www.optionsforsexualhealth.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control-options/effectiveness
And that doesn’t even take into account all the health issue women can develop while on birth control or the type of men they choose. It’s all been researched. Nothing good comes from it.
And I’ll keep pointing this out because most women have been fed lies about birth control. That’s the very real thing that is oppressing them.
There are women that care about their body and do not view ‘abortion’ as a form of birth control. Condoms are an absolute must in today’s society. Along with that, a woman can increase her % of effectiveness by using another form of birth control and knowing her cycle.
A Dad is right, some women do lie to get ‘accidently’ pregnant. They do so for many reasons: keeping that guy, hoping for marriage, having a form of income. If the guy is a celebrity, athlete, or even has future income potential, there will be some woman hoping to latch on to it.
I’m still going to say casual uncommited sex does not end well for a woman. You can’t play with fire a lot without getting burned at some point.
Paternity fraud is massive, and statistics are increasingly showing that as many as 1/3 of children are not knowingly raised by their biological fathers, with lower stats in the 10% range. That’s 10% too high!
I read that there were polls that half of women would lie about the father and nearly half would lie about being on birth control. That’s simply mind blowing.
Absolutely Earl. Sex out of wedlock is a risk. Yet humans need sex. So what does one do? In the discussions, many state a large % of married women withhold or detest sex. So is the solution get married and gamble on whether you will or will Not have sex with that one person for the rest of your life? And if you’re part of the unlucky % who married a frigid wife, then what? Or what if the husband does not want sex and the wife is stuck in a sexless marriage?
That’s why theoretical numbers are false. The actual use numbers are probably too high as well if she ‘happens to forget’ or goes into plausible deniability mode.
Unless your ovaries/uterus is completely out, everytime you have sex, pregnancy is possible.
‘Yet humans need sex. So what does one do?’
Get married.
In the discussions, many state a large % of married women withhold or detest sex. So is the solution get married and gamble on whether you will or will Not have sex with that one person for the rest of your life?
I thought humans needed sex. Why all of a sudden does she not want sex with her licit partner?
‘And if you’re part of the unlucky % who married a frigid wife, then what?’
Wonder why she got married in the first place. That’s her licit sexual partner She’s committing fraud and sin by withholding.
‘Or what if the husband does not want sex and the wife is stuck in a sexless marriage?’
Wonder why he got married in the first place. That’s his licit sexual partner. Sex and marriage are a package deal and he’s committing fraud and sin by withholding from his licit sexual partner.
I’ll ask…if humans have this intense need for sex, then why do some of them go frigid? It seems like we have cognitive dissonance here.
I have an intense need to eat, drink water, sleep…why is it I never go frigid there?
“Absolutely Earl. Sex out of wedlock is a risk. Yet humans need sex. So what does one do? In the discussions, many state a large % of married women withhold or detest sex. So is the solution get married and gamble on whether you will or will Not have sex with that one person for the rest of your life? And if you’re part of the unlucky % who married a frigid wife, then what? Or what if the husband does not want sex and the wife is stuck in a sexless marriage?”
The idea that someone could consciously marry, yet not have sex with their spouse, and still demand monogamy, it appalling. Yet these same people get defensive when their SO cheats.
Sexless marriage used to be grounds for fault-based divorce, but no-fault and marital rape laws were created to get these people (normally feminist women) out of being accountable for this, and it’s terrible. And these people can still leave a marriage with no-fault divorce and extract resources from the other person. It’s total robbery on a physical, spiritual, and financial level, and makes me sick.
I know, because I’ve been there. And even RPG has said that her ex treated her like this to a degree. A lot of RP folks will blame the person who isn’t getting the action but it’s not that simple. I happened to have married someone who was simply sexually defective. I accepted it early on, and still married her, but never expected that once the marriage was locked down it would dwindle to nothingness. I’m a rather sexual person and had been in some sexually intense relationships before with women who never had a problem with me. So while I can try to blame myself, I can’t help but to think that the problem really was outside of my control. It was absolute torture and I honestly feel that she used it to very cruelly psychologically beat me down over a period of several years. This is why I’m so certain that she’s BPD because no rational and kind person could do this to another person. It’s disgusting.
You’re right Earl. I should have said some humans need sex. Not all.
I’m sorry you experienced that A Dad.
LOL @ getting married for sex. Most marriages are low to no sex endeavours. Marriage is beta and dries out vaginas
“You’re right Earl. I should have said some humans need sex. Not all.”
I would argue that all do, because it’s key to maintaining true intimacy and bonding with a partner. But the psychological factors that cause these people to feel disgusted by it tend to outweigh the basic needs. And in the end, it destroys their ability to have a normal and healthy relationship.
These are often people that act out sexually at a young age, but can’t function normally with a partner when the time comes to do so. As a result, they can never experience true and healthy intimacy because their references for this are broken.
It takes a lot of work and dedication for such people to correct these flaws, and often takes them a lifetime to do it.
I’ve witnessed first-hand how a person behaves when they don’t have that sexual connection, and it’s not healthy for them or their partner. And it just gets worse over time.
My ex will never be able to have a healthy relationship unless she goes through lots of therapy to reprogram the things that are broken.
Ton – I agree 100% on this.
Love,
The sense that I got from Nekros is that something broke inside. I tried to dissuade him.
Earl, I don’t know where all this sexual denial is coming from. One thing for sure, its origin in not based in rationality.
Very sad. I hope Nekros has healed. No person should have such power over another.
‘These are often people that act out sexually at a young age, but can’t function normally with a partner when the time comes to do so. As a result, they can never experience true and healthy intimacy because their references for this are broken.’
Yup, I’d say that’s the heart of the problem more than a person (man or woman) who is just naturally ‘frigid’.
Hence why I’ll say it again…casual uncommitted sex does not end well especially for a woman.
‘Earl, I don’t know where all this sexual denial is coming from. One thing for sure, its origin in not based in rationality.’
Women think of sex much more emotionally than a man does. If her emotions for sex are based on it being illicit…it wouldn’t surprise me if she doesn’t have any emotions for it when it is licit. I think a lot of dead bedroom does come from the fact she was promiscuous before marriage.
Love,
I hope so too.
Earl, There is a lot of this dead bedroom stuff going. If the self reported statistics in the US stand at twenty percent, it is only a guess how much worse the truth is.
If a husband goes dead bedroom and the wife is the one wanting it…I’d have to wonder what his hormone levels are or if he was attracted to women to begin with.
Earl,
I don’t know why men would go that way, unless it was medical or he was gay and the marriage was a sham.
Love,
This does take us back to the original post. Modern women have gone too far with rejection. It is poisoning the the sexual marketplace.
If a husband goes dead bedroom and the wife is the one wanting it…I’d have to wonder what his hormone levels are or if he was attracted to women to begin with.
…..
Or she got fat, or she is a complete cunt, or she was unfaithful and he can’t stand it…. probably other reasons that would fall under the complete cunt category
I left out the fact the woman was the reason he doesn’t want to because if she’s dead bedrooming it…she’s most likely doing all those other things already.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/no-the-so-called-war-on-sex-does-not-exist/article37281457/
And Solipism doesnt exist either. A horrific article on the front page.
Horseman – At first, it seems like there was actually a female author that might be making some sense and was going to try to hand a dose of reality to other women of the world…
Nope. Fail. Yet another feminist who doesn’t get it and wants to avoid any accountability. It’s basically someone else’s problem by choosing her “third option”. She’s essentially acknowledging that the war on the sexes is indeed real. At least she’s calling out the perpetual victims and liars but still ends up sweeping the issue under the rug.
She’s also saying, in not so many words, that she doesn’t like that her unlimited options for free sex with strangers are being taken away because men have stopped interacting with her. That she wants to have her cake and eat it too, but not be forced to go back to the old standards of courtship.
Makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Seconded.
@earl: “… everytime you have sex, pregnancy is possible.”
Did you mean this to be a theoretical statement, or a biological one? Because it is not a correct biological statement. Sperm are viable for only a short period of time. And the woman’s egg is in a position to be fertilized for only a short period of time. So, for a short time before and after an egg is released, fertilization is possible. For all other times, fertilization is impossible.
True Richard, the window each month is small, but nature can do some funny things. I know lots of women who concieved despite it not being the right time of the month. The older one gets, the more random the egg firing seems to be. In a gal’s 40s is the second most common time for an unplanned pregnancy, after the teen years. Probably bc they get lax w the birth control, thinking it can’t happen and then…. surprise!
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