One of the women my mom held up as an example of all a woman could do and be was Gloria Vanderbilt. My mom admired her New York social scene, her career as a fashion designer, her success and acclaim.
I really didn’t know much about her myself, except that she released a line of blue jeans that was fairly successful, and designed clothing. I had always assumed she started her company and built her success from the ground up.
Well, last night during some random insomnia web surfing, I came across the full story. Gloria Vanderbilt was actually born into immense wealth, the granddaughter of a railroad baron, the child of her father who rather than be a titan himself had lived a playboy lifestyle and drank himself to death by his early 40s, leaving his barely 19-year-old bride and 18 month old daughter behind.
Gloria was raised by her mother until the age of 10 when she was the subject of a bitter custody battle between her aunt and mother. While her mother traveled the world living off the interest of Gloria’s trust fund ($5 million at the time, which made little Gloria along with her older half sister one of the richest women in the world at age 21), Gloria was apparently largely raised by a nanny who had concerns about the child’s environment. Allegations of neglect and immoral behavior on her mother’s part, combined with testimony by young Gloria herself, ended up with her being placed in the custody of her aunt, her father sister.
From there she attended exclusive schools and was raised in a family that owned multiple homes on Fifth Avenue in New York, including one that took up an entire New York city block.
Now I don’t mean to take away from what Gloria did with her life, or to imply she did not have her own crosses to bear — including the early loss of her father, the early years with(out) her mother, multiple failed marriages, one son who disowned her, and a son who killed himself in his 20s — but for her to be painted as a role model for what the average gal could achieve with moxie and hard work was, to say the least, disingenuious.
It makes me wonder what the background of many of the other early “successful career women” is. Were they also women who started with means and status far above the usual? I will have to look into it as time allows.
In any case, beware false idols. Things are not always what they are portrayed to be.
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
In my cSe there’s nothing in my current situation to explain my feelings other than maybe they are things I couldn’t feel at the time coming out now that life has settled down? It’s the weirdest thing. But like I said I am just rolling w it, knowing it will pass.
RPG – You just get out of the busy season with your work? Things have been hectic with my job but the worst of it is over for a while. I won’t be seeing any relatives this year and it will be the first ever Christmas I’ve spent alone, but Thanksgiving was fine so I know what to expect. Just going to make the most of the time when the kid is here. Spend Christmas day with the dogs and just doing things that I enjoy and taking a day to relax.
Too many other things are going too well though. Reaching some new records on fitness training, got some major things done around here and some financial milestones worked out. Can’t complain about much though, because life is really good. It’s too easy to let your mind get into a rut. I get that all of that “think positive” stuff probably sounds dumb, but don’t let things get you down.
‘Do you get it now? It’s not that Deti is right or wrong about any one particular woman’s character. It’s about the fact that some women are incapable of believing that they could potentially do the same thing, just like many men (here) thought that such a thing could never happen to them.’
Once deti started adding the words ‘in the flesh’ to his mantra…he got to the core of the matter.
We all have the battle between the flesh and the Spirit. And we all fail at that sometimes. Problem is a lot of people are all in with the flesh part and unfortunately the game is setup to where they can have a lot of incentives to do it.
‘I’d say to the ladies here, try not to take Deti’s words personally. I can see how his wording may have made it sound so, but I really do think he meant in general.’
It’s basically an emotional-solipistic reaction.
My engagement with deti on his theory wasn’t emotional but trying to take it to the logical end. I agree with his stance to a point…but it isn’t the complete picture. The flesh is really where our weaknesses are manifest.
And I’d also point out…if a woman (or a man for that matter) is unhaaaaaaaaaaapy…there is more focus on the flesh than the Spirit.
‘Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Gal 5:19-23)
If you want to overcome the flesh…you need help from the Spirit. We can’t do it on our own.
I’d like everyone to note something here.
My comments, the ones that have Stephanie huffing and puffing, and have caused Elspeth’s furrowed brow, are about women IN GENERAL and their nature IN GENERAL. And I am correct about that.
Stephanie took this comment personally as if it were directed solely and only to her. Elspeth jumped on that bandwagon and also took it personally as if I was talking about her personally and to no one else. What’s more, she took the opportunity to castigate me and question my faith.
Folks, this is why men and women can’t discuss these issues in a meaningful way. This is also why men should stop listening to and should ignore women’s objections to men’s honest assessments of women, their nature, and the sexual marketplace. Because someone like me makes an assessment or observation, and a few women come along and shriek “That’s so HURTFUL! You’re ATTACKING me! How DARE you say those things about ME!”
See what happened?
“X is a feature of women’s nature.”
“Oh my GOD! That’s so PERSONAL and INSULTING about ME! Not all women are X! I am not X! Not All Women Are Like That!! I Am Not Like That!!”
Well, YES YOU ARE X. It’s just that you’re one of the rare ones that has overcome X.
@ Fuzzie:
I hope that you find this. I couldn’t think of a less likely candidate for cheating than Stephanie. She is young and married young. It is likely that her husband is the only one. Finally, she just had her third child. That would make her fulfilled with respect to the biological and feminine imperative. No wonder that she is objecting to your position. Cheating for her would be as likely as a trip to the moon.
It hasn’t happened in this thread yet, but it will. I have trouble understanding why red pill keyboard alphas want to make everything the man’s fault, even when it clear that it is the woman’s fault.
Finally, the courts know that they are doing evil. That is why they won’t let me in the courthouse to pay my tax with my Swiss Army knife.
I fully agree that Stephanie and Elspeth are not likely candidates for cheating. That said, they are women, and human, and so there is no way to say they will never cheat and that cheating can be ruled out 100%.
I like Stephanie, but she is taking this personally when she knows or should know, and has been around here long enough to know, that no one is talking about HER PERSONALLY. I’m even more surprised at Elspeth’s taking this personally, because she is one of the wisest women around these parts. But it is the case that women have a very, very difficult time facing up to their own natures, and so that tempers my surprise a little.
Further, take into consideration that one of the things that has really helped Stephanie and Elspeth overcome their natures is the men they married. They married their alpha bux. They are extremely sexually attracted to their husbands, or at least they say they are.
Now, pay attention ,because this is important.
MOST WOMEN ARE NOT AS SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THEIR HUSBANDS AS STEPHANIE AND ELSPETH ARE TO THEIRS.
Let me say this again, so you really get it, because this is the nub of the matter and this is why Stephanie and Elspeth can say with credibility IANLT:
MOST WOMEN ARE NOT AS SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THEIR HUSBANDS AS STEPHANIE AND ELSPETH ARE TO THEIRS.
That, Fuzzie, is why most women have a hard time overcoming their natures. A man’s sexual attractiveness and his woman’s immediate, hard and visceral sexual attraction for him, makes it very, very easy for her to overcome that nature and to stay with him.
And that, Fuzzie, is a major reason for most divorces today – because the wife either was not sexually attracted from the beginning, or was and has lost that attraction. And candidly, Fuzzie, you’ve been around here long enough to know that. You know better than this. Or at least you should know better.
Further, I speak from extensive personal experiences with this. I’ve dated a lot of women. I’ve had sex with more than a few women. I’ve had a few long term relationships with women. And I’ve been married to a woman for more than 20 years, which marriage came within a hair’s breadth of ending by divorce. I’ve worked with Blue Pill concepts to “make a marriage work” and I’ve seen them fail spectacularly. Crash and burn spectacular. I’ve worked with Red Pill concepts to “make a marriage work” and I’ve seen them work splendidly, exactly as was predicted they would work. I’ve applied them both, and seem Blue Pill fail and Red Pill work, right before my eyes, in real time, over and over and over again. I’ve gone red pill and then momentarily reverted to Blue Pill and seen things falter and start failing; and get them back on track with Red Pill. Over and over again.
Have you?
“And that, Fuzzie, is a major reason for most divorces today – because the wife either was not sexually attracted from the beginning, or was and has lost that attraction. And candidly, Fuzzie, you’ve been around here long enough to know that. You know better than this. Or at least you should know better.
Further, I speak from extensive personal experiences with this. I’ve dated a lot of women. I’ve had sex with more than a few women. I’ve had a few long term relationships with women. And I’ve been married to a woman for more than 20 years, which marriage came within a hair’s breadth of ending by divorce. I’ve worked with Blue Pill concepts to “make a marriage work” and I’ve seen them fail spectacularly. Crash and burn spectacular. I’ve worked with Red Pill concepts to “make a marriage work” and I’ve seen them work splendidly, exactly as was predicted they would work. I’ve applied them both, and seem Blue Pill fail and Red Pill work, right before my eyes, in real time, over and over and over again. I’ve gone red pill and then momentarily reverted to Blue Pill and seen things falter and start failing; and get them back on track with Red Pill. Over and over again.”
————–
As much as no man would want to admit it, Deti is right. My ex was no longer attracted to me. Is it because I’m an ugly man? Nope. I am a decent looking guy in better than average shape that has never had trouble attractive women, but that changes nothing. My wife simply was not attracted to me anymore after nearly 20 years together. Interestingly enough, she seems to be again. Sexual attraction is the glue that keeps most people together, at least until a certain age.
Nearly 20 years. That’s still not a bad run, but she could have waited until my son was grown. The only reason that she did not was paranoia about her future prospect for locking down a new man. She’s right at that age threshold.
I took the red pill way too late. But even though I lost something, I gained many other things. For one, I got my life back. Once I got over the heartache, I learned that it didn’t really matter anymore and I had my whole life ahead of me, and it was good.
But even though it might crush a man’s ego, it literally blows the roof off of things for a woman, because most women could ever imagine that what Deti says is true. And this is why you never see this anywhere else. Not on dating websites. Not on divorce websites. Nowhere. Because the concept is so revolting to all but a small number of women and it completely contradicts everything that we learned about men and women from a young age. It literally makes many women disgusted to think about it yet they see it going on all around them in many disguises. “Liberated women”, new gender standards, equal rights, whatever. Everything is going to spin it in a way that really ignores the core issue.
The divorce rate should be indicative now that 80% of women are cheaters in some regard. See my comment on that above. That men are generally the most devoted, capable of true “love”, and “romantics”. The gender that has to do these things to protect his family and guarantee its survival. Blue pillers would love to believe that we are far removed from our animal instincts, but not. We are not. We never lost these things when we gained intelligence and free will. If anything, they became amplified.
Stephanie recently mentioned a few friends who were nearing divorce. Guy got caught cheating, but she believed that he was a quality guy and wife was a nag. Interesting though that Stephanie was far more critical of the nagging wife than the infidelity of the husband. That’s pretty rare. Most women would readily say the opposite, without looking at the core issue of why the man was probably hurt and felt rejected by the only source of comfort and solace that he had in life. His wife.
I was actually attempting to defend the truth of the gospel more than myself, Deti. Using myself as an example was a bad idea. I see that in retrospect.
Either way, this is my “last hurrah” so to speak, on these matters. I do think it’s worth it to insist that female people can be truly transformed by the gospel.That was all, not that any one is beyond the ability to sin.
The truth of what true salvation means is important.
elspeth is right about this.
Even though I am an agnostic, I’ve known several great women who are just like her in this regard. However, most did not start this way. With exception of a small few, it took them most of their lives to get there.
A Dad:
Yes. You got it.
Folks, we all must have the courage to face the truth. About ourselves. About our natures. About what works and what doesn’t work. About why we are where we are in our lives.
Have the courage to face the truth.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/12/20/denial/
I do think it’s worth it to insist that female people can be truly transformed by the gospel.
Agreed. I never disagreed. But A Dad is right too, when he says
I’ve known several great women who are just like her in this regard. However, most did not start this way. With exception of a small few, it took them most of their lives to get there.
It took Mrs. deti about 28 years of adulthood, 17 of which has been with me, to get there.
Deti said
“Folks, this is why men and women can’t discuss these issues in a meaningful way. This is also why men ——- stop listening to and ——- ignore women’s objections to men’s honest assessments of women, their nature, and the sexual marketplace. Because someone like me makes an assessment or observation, and a few women come along and shriek “That’s so HURTFUL! You’re ATTACKING me! How DARE you say those things about ME!”
See what happened?
“X is a feature of women’s nature.”
Fixed it for him.
Why the greatest threat to women from all this Is Men Giving Up and Stop Bothering.
Any woman ever push an argument to far to the point of breakup Just To Be Right?
Ladies lookup Phyric Victory.
Deti – Did you and your wife ultimately get most of the problems worked out, because I’ve not been quite clear? Still a bit new and I know you’ve been posting around here for a long time.
A Dad:
Yes, we worked out most of the problems as best as possible, and agreed to disagree on the rest. Bottom line is that it worked out the way I wanted and needed it to. Mostly because Mrs. deti did change and convert in the ways Elspeth has described, in much the same ways E has described.
Of course it certainly incentivized Mrs. deti to change because she stood to lose the nice gravy train she was (and is) on, would have to explain the failure of her marriage to her parents and friends, and also would have to explain to her children her maltreatment of their father. It also helped, I suppose, that I made it very clear I would sit down with all of our friends, her family, my family, and our kids, and explain very carefully in general terms why our marriage was ending – succinctly, because she was being an intractable insufferable bitch who demanded her own way all the time with no consideration given to my wants, needs, hopes and desires.
It also helped that Mrs. deti was in her mid 40s when it all blew up and was suddenly faced with the imminent end of her marriage if she didn’t do something NOW, and dating in your mid 40s with a 12 year old and a 5 year old would be no picnic. I suppose it also helped that child support plus the alimony I would have had to pay for a couple of years would not have been enough to support her and the kids to her current standards. Without access to all of my income, she would have had to get a job and significantly downsize things.
I know that all of the above is why she fixed things. It’s not because I’m so attractive or I’m such a hot guy or I’m such a catch. It’s because she was going to lose big time and her life was going to change significantly in a lot of ways if things didn’t turn around fast.
Being a Christian helps. But looking at the facts on the ground helps a lot too.
A Dad:
Essentially, it was me saying to Mrs deti:
“I am not going to put up with your bullshit anymore, not for one minute. You need to fix this, and I mean fix it RIGHT NOW, or we are done. Things are going to change around here, because I am not going to live this way anymore. Fix it, or this marriage is over.”
Sounds familiar, but my ex had a bit more time on her side so she chose to bail. It seems like she’s having regrets now though.
A Dad:
If Mrs. deti and I had not had children, we wouldn’t have made it 5 years. I am convinced she would have left me by then. I swallowed the red pill (or, rather, Roissy and the Hawaiian Libertarian shoved one up my ass) at the 15 year mark. If we had not had kids then, I would have left her.
Sounds oh so familiar. How in the hell is it like this for everyone? Like Ton said. Every man’s story is practically the same.
Knowing Mrs deti as I did and as I do, I KNOW that if I had said this:
“I am not going to put up with your bullshit anymore, not for one minute. You need to fix this, and I mean fix it RIGHT NOW, or we are done. Things are going to change around here, because I am not going to live this way anymore. Fix it, or this marriage is over.”
she would have said “fine. Fuck you and fuck off. We’re done then. Who’s moving out, you or me?”
Shit. Let’s try that again:
_______
Knowing Mrs deti as I did and as I do, I KNOW that if I had said this:
“I am not going to put up with your bullshit anymore, not for one minute. You need to fix this, and I mean fix it RIGHT NOW, or we are done. Things are going to change around here, because I am not going to live this way anymore. Fix it, or this marriage is over.”
Before she got pregnant with our first, she would have said “fine. Fuck you and fuck off. We’re done then. Who’s moving out, you or me?”
Yikes, man. Even my ex wasn’t such a belligerent potty mouth. You lucked out.
God. She’s a depressive with PTSD and borderline features. She was subject to emotional outbursts and emotional instability, and could be quite the ragebitch. She’s got that under control…. for now. Which is good, because I’m having none of that shit now. I absolutely will not live that way for one more goddamn minute and I don’t care what it costs me to get out if it goes back that way.
“God. She’s a depressive with PTSD and borderline features. She was subject to emotional outbursts and emotional instability, and could be quite the ragebitch.”
Mine was the same, but just not diagnosed. She preferred the silent treatment but started going into batshit crazy rage mode near the end.
She needs to get it under control because no man who is middle-aged, especially post-divorce is going to deal with that. Some women need to get just how much bullshit a man takes when he loves her and has stuck with her for years. It’s not that easy to get that in some new guy but they seem to think that they can go through life without fixing these problems, before they finally get it after a number of failed relationshits.
wow…after reading the comments of this weird thread I am sooooo grateful I did not marry a westernized American female…
If you only knew the absolute fucking river of shit I have suffered in this marriage….
I haven’t even told you the half of it.
I sometimes wonder how so many people today have BPD or other problems like that. Have people always been this way or what is going on?
yes, people have always had mental illnesses, depression, cluster B personality disorders, bipolar (what they used to call manic-depressive), etc.
It’s just that most of the time, people dealt with it however they could and stuck it out. They suffered through the anxiety, depression and the cluster B’s. If they just couldn’t stand it anymore, many times one spouse just left and they lived their lives separated. They couldn’t get divorced – there wasn’t grounds. That was “suck it up buttercup” territory.
If it was really bad like paranoid schizophrenia, like organic stuff, they got institutionalized or jailed. Or they committed suicide. Or someone in the family or outside the family “helped” with it.
There wasn’t time to be depressed or anxious. No one had time to deal with your borderline or histrionic or narcissistic bullshit. They didn’t even have those. Back then it was just called “being an asshole” or “being a bitch”. It was just called “antisocial behavior”. If you were a man, other men beat it out of you, ostracized it out of you, jailed it out of you or murdered it out of you. If you wanted to stay alive and keep a job and function in society and not get kicked out of your tribe, you learned how to deal with it or others taught you, the hard way, how to fit in and keep your weirdness and assholish behavior in check. “Suck it the fuck up and learn to deal” was the message that was sent.
If you were a woman, it was a little kinder for you. If you were young and you were really not that bad, you got married and you suffered through it and so did everyone else in your family. If you were worse off, you were singled out pretty early as “not the marrying kind” and everyone in your extended family made arrangements to help you out because you were destined for spinsterhood. So you lived with parents until they died, then with one of your siblings or maybe a cousin somewhere. You got a job probably in a factory making things or as a seamstress or if you were lucky, as a country schoolhouse teacher. Or you went to a nunnery.
If no one could handle you, man or woman, you went to an institution – the “insane asylum” they called it back then. Or the “state hospital for the criminally insane”. Or the “state mental hospital”. They were basically warehouses for nutcases and hard cases. You got medicated, sedated, lobotomized, whatever. Probably physically and sexually abused.
“I sometimes wonder how so many people today have BPD or other problems like that. Have people always been this way or what is going on?”
—-
This is why I think that as many as 1 in 5, or more, have some sort of disorder like this. I think that it’s a big killer of relationships. NPD typically for men, and BPD for women. They just feed off of one another.
It’s probably always been like this. Maybe even worse. But social standards and different divorce laws sorta forced people to work it out. Now, people can just fly off the handle and never get the problems resolved.
Oh yeah: and if you were a woman with some “mental issues” and you got married, you almost always got married to a low value unattractive man – you married a man who would have you, because very few men would have you. So you probably didn’t have a great marriage; it would be fair at best.
Regardless of whether you married or not, you were utterly dependent on other men in your life – your husband, your father, your brothers, male cousins, or male in laws – to provide for you. You probably didn’t make enough money to provide for yourself even though you had a job. And you needed male relatives’ physical protection too – from other men and from the criminal element.
There was talk of trying to remove BPD from DSM-5 because it was said to unfairly label women primarily as having a psychological disorder. Essentially, feminists want BPD-type behavior to be considered “normal” female behavior and not something that is a diagnosed mental disorder, and that certain characteristics would be classified as a type of PTSD instead.
https://theconversation.com/dsm-5-helps-perpetuate-the-myth-of-womens-madness-14508
The problem is that it tends to sweep the destructive behavior under the rug. The article and comments in it indicate, probably accurately, that women with these symptoms use it as a coping mechanism but that the culprit is someone else who was inevitably to blame (normally a man). In typical modern fashion, the notion is to deny that there are any gender differences between men and women beyond the obvious reproductive differences, so it’s becoming a form of discrimination to acknowledge that man and women deal with psychological trauma differently as a result of gender differences.
There actually is a link between women with BPD and sexual trauma, but a lot of new evidence is more accurately pointing to a lack of maternal and paternal bonding, particularly from the time of being an infant through childhood. The sexual trauma is normally just the icing on the cake. I think that it’s simply a coincidence that children in single mother homes are also more often the victims of sexual abuse and have an elevated number of many other disadvantages.
Symptomatically, men and women handle the trauma differently. A women detached from a distant mother during infancy and later a missing father tend to develop BPD symptoms that range from self hate to acting out sexually, among others. Men tend to develop symptoms of NPD, self-glorification, an inflated ego, and extreme attachment to a mother figure.
Don’t ask me how I know these things first-hand, but I can tell you that I’ve been a magnet for BPD women my entire life. They are magnets for one another.
These problems are massive because people do not want to acknowledge the damage that is caused by the breakdown of the nuclear family. It’s a damn epidemic with all of the babies that are thrown in daycare from childbirth, and later raised by a distant mother with no father figure.
It’s sad, because we are encouraging the proliferation of a nation of deeply sick people and prescription drugs aren’t even the solution. It’s rebuilding the family and creating a healthy childhood for all of the unfortunate babies that have no choice.
Coincidentally, it seems that BPD women also tend to produce BPD daughters and NPD sons. Not always, but there is a connection.
My mother was a BPD and my biological father an NPD. Care to guess what happened?
Interesting, A Dad. I didn’t know there was a movement afoot to “depathologize” and normalize borderline personality disorder.
I do know that there are some mental health professionals who prefer it be called “emotionally unstable personality disorder” because they think that it more accurately describes the disorder.
But whatever you call it, it is an abnormality and it’s a personality disorder, probably half a result of genetics and probably half a result of events, trauma, experiences and environment.
It has a distinct set of symptoms:
–need to keep people/friends close, extreme/inappropriate familiarity
–extreme fear of abandonment
–failure to establish secure, healthy self-identity – the phenomenon of “don’t really know who I am or what I like”. These are the people who say they need to “find themselves” and who change likes, dislikes, etc. to conform to people they’re involved with as friends or sexually
–wide mood swings from euphoria to rage to depression to anxiety (the emotionally unstable part)
–has episodes of emotionally lashing out at others in anger/rage or uncontrollable sobbing
–near complete inability to control or regulate own emotions
–acting out, violently, sexually, with substances
–usually presents with at least one comorbidity (depression, anxiety, substance abuse/addiction)
–runs in families
It’s a hell of a lot more than just “female behavior” and it’s not “normal” and it’s certainly not “healthy”. People with this disorder suffer a lot and their families suffer. They can’t form healthy relationships. They get no peace in their lives.
My best friend is a major NPD and his mother was a total wack-job BPD. She’s since passed away and he’s got some major mommy issues now.
His ex-wife was a weird type of BPD and her craziness wasn’t obvious until about 10 years into their marriage, and his current girlfriend appears to also be a BPD. I hear she’s REALLY good in bed though.
Yeah, I’ve heard this too – BPD/borderline women are freaks in the sack. At first. Then they show their true colors.
I haven’t read any of the comments except skimmed over a couple of deti’s on this page.
Deti… you meant for it to be personally insulting. You directed that comment (actually multiple comments) to “us” “Red Pill Women” or “ladies.”
You meant for it to hurt us, because you know we try exceptionally hard to love and please our husbands and here you were, telling us we’re still pieces of shit.
You meant for us to take it personally. That’s why you said it directed toward us.
A man hasn’t experienced life until he has married a BPD and tried to cope with it via the blue pill
“If you only knew the absolute fucking river of shit I have suffered in this marriage….”
I am sorry… you’re incredibly brilliant and until recently I always looked forward to reading whatever you had to say. And I’m sorry you married such a horrible woman. She doesn’t appreciate or value you the way you should be revered and valued.
It doesn’t mean that all women are like your wife. Especially ones who write on these topics or were raised to automatically be mostly red pilled even in high school.
I don’t know… I “get it” that you’re saying that you weren’t directing it toward us and our marriages, but it sure sounded it like it.
Can we call a truce?
“A man hasn’t experienced life until he has married a BPD and tried to cope with it via the blue pill”
—-
Farm Boy – I knew that you were divorced from a crazy woman but didn’t know the exact details. So basically you, Ton, Deti, and I, all share the same experience that brought us to RP. LOL.
Fuzzie? You ready to join the club? Lots of single BPD women out there that would love to shack up with you.
Deti is the only one who got RP’d before it was too late. Or, maybe he’s the one who is still actually trapped….
“Can we call a truce?”
You know… looking back I think he said those things previously at Rollo’s probably in response to whatever drama was going on there. So seeing them out of context (meant for Rollo’s audience and in response to some new drama there) I can see how it was said in shock or anger.
And honestly deti I shouldn’t probably be reading red pill blogs right after I have a baby. My hormones are still completely out of whack… I’m getting woken up 3 to sometimes 5 times a night to breastfeed… and I’m more “off” due to those things.
It happened after our 2nd son too, I start reading and commenting more because I’m tied to the baby more and have to breastfeed. And I really do act differently with the post-pardum hormones and lack of sleep. 😦
Deti… you meant for it to be personally insulting. You directed that comment (actually multiple comments) to “us” “Red Pill Women” or “ladies.”
You meant for it to hurt us, because you know we try exceptionally hard to love and please our husbands and here you were, telling us we’re still pieces of shit.
You meant for us to take it personally. That’s why you said it directed toward us.
Sorry you misinterpreted the statements. But you’re not a mind reader.
Again…. you need to have the courage to face the truth.
nah, not trapped, A Dad. I’m reporting my observations and experiences.
Stephanie: Yes, maybe you should take a break. Maybe your self-admitted hormonal state explains your reaction.
Stephanie – The thing that I find interesting about your story is what you’ve said about your parents. That your mother basically mistreated your father, etc. What was your red pill? I get that you are strong in your faith but most people don’t land there by accident. It usually takes a strong role model to teach a child how to approach life from a more positive perspective. Simply going to church obviously results in nothing as you’ve probably observed around you. In fact, it’s probably destructive in some cases.
” That your mother basically mistreated your father, etc. What was your red pill?”
The short version?
My mom was extremely red pill at least according to a lot of the things I read out there. But she didn’t practice what she preached. She knows it… she admits to it (ashamedly) even now. My dad was not an alpha maybe at least not in the way the manosphere may describe it, but wow was he ever honest and honest about SMV and things like that. My husband was even shocked how honest my parents were with HIM about stuff like that. His parents never talked about any of that stuff.
My dad constantly stood up to her nuttiness, which made respect and love him even more, but it also taught me how she was destroying his love for her year by year, and I knew even then I never wanted to do that when I got married. Seeing him keep his own frame and not become her beta was a good thing to see played out in front of me.
I love them both, but wow was my mom ever messed up in being a “good” wife.
Stephanie:
You should also read my comments to Fuzzie up there today at 2:22 pm.
A Dad:
This is why I think that as many as 1 in 5, or more, have some sort of disorder like this. I think that it’s a big killer of relationships. NPD typically for men, and BPD for women. They just feed off of one another.
One in four women in the US is being treated for a mental illness and/or is medicated for a mental illness.
I dont doubt the remediative abilities of the Almighty God. I have seen men turn away from, all sorts of things
What I doubt is women having the capacity for guilt, shame, remorse, accepting personal responsibility for ones failings etc which drives the Salvation experience which opens the door for redemption
I sometimes wonder how so many people today have BPD or other problems like that. Have people always been this way or what is going on?
……
Women have always been this way but in more rational times men didn’t go to jail for judiciously using their pimp hand.
Women shit test because of their insecurities. A good pimp hand makes her feel secure and what passes as happy for chicks.
A good pimp hand anti the only way but it is the easiest, overt and most direct route
truces are for losers
Stephanie – So you are basically saying that your parents were very well aware that your mother was resentful about marrying a stereotypical “beta”, and he stood up for her behavior?
If this were 2017, she’d already have been out the door and looking for a new man.
Hope you don’t mind me saying, it sounds to me like your mother practiced exactly what she preached and urged you to find a man that gave you tingles.
RPG,
“lately I have really been struggling to think positive and not be discouraged”
You are still breathing.
A Dad:
The women who hang around the sphere are women who are insanely sexually attracted to their husbands. Or at least they say they are.
This is a major reason why women can’t understand what men around the men’s sphere are talking about with marital problems and relationship failures. They just don’t get how a woman could possibly marry a man for any reason other than nutso bonkers sexual attraction. And since they’ve never experienced this, and they’ve promptly offloaded unattractive men and would not date men who they didn’t want to have sex with all the time, they have absolutely no idea what men are talking about and cannot understand why men have these problems.
In 2017 America, there is NO reason for a man to get married at all unless he wants kids. And a woman who fails to marry a man she doesn’t tingle for is being exceptionally cruel and heartless to her husband.
The problem is that at current rates, only about 15 to 20% of women can marry sexually attractive men. There just aren’t enough sexually attractive men to go around to every woman who wants one. So, many of them do without. And some women share. And most women who do marry, are marrying men they just aren’t all that sexually attracted to. There is some attraction there. But it is not anywhere close to enough to carry a couple through the rough times that hit every marriage.
Them’s the facts, Jack.
“your parents were very well aware that your mother was resentful about marrying a stereotypical “beta”, and he stood up for her behavior?””
That’s not what I meant. They had tons of sex… she seemed very sexually attracted to him, even though I really doubt he was a true “alpha.” She just wouldn’t control her crazy emotional outbursts, constantly would disrespect him (even while teaching to me to respect men and my future husband), and wouldn’t follow his leadership on many things in our family. It was so weird seeing her say to do one thing, and then seem to have no self-awareness that she herself did the opposite things.
Deti,
I’m not so sure about some of the women that hang around. I will not name any names but they have not participated in this conversation. Their comments, in some cases, indicate uncertainty about their current relationships. They might be stuck, wondering why they are with a guy that they aren’t attracted to or in a relationship that isn’t going anywhere, so they land in places like this. But they won’t admit as much.
Even some women in long-term relationships seem to wonder why they are feeling the way that they do, or aren’t feeling tingles. Some have no relationship at all and can’t figure out why, or have been through a number of failed relationships. Those are usually the handful that pop up every now and then and call us misogynists and stomp off with a pouty lip.
On the subject of sexual attractiveness… There are lots of women who are extremely sexually attracted to their man early on, but things change. Usually it’s his perceived SMV and her perceived new SMV. It’s not that there is an impossible number of attractive men to go around. It’s just that women tend to inflate their perceived value.
Take note of elspeth’s comment about how valuable her man really is; Attractive, lots of options, etc., and how she loves him and wants to be more valuable to him. That says a hell of a lot.
Lots of guys don’t start off as “alpha bux”. Even as Stephanie recently said about her man; That they started with nothing and he was working some low paying job. My marriage was the same but we grew apart only after success and kids, etc. Usual story though. Men start poor and women start wealthy. Then it all shifts.
In my honest opinion, my ex has always been a good 1-2 steps below me in terms of SMV. She’s probably a solid 6 now, looks fading, nothing going for her, etc. Simply average middle-aged women. Nothing wrong with that. But she was much more valuable at one time. See where I’m going with this? I stuck with her because she had the potential to be a quality mother. She looked good enough, don’t get me wrong. But it’s not like she really is going to knock some guy’s socks off if he’s got other options.
So it’s not that there aren’t enough men to go around. It’s that women are being fed a bunch of bullshit.
“That’s not what I meant. They had tons of sex… she seemed very sexually attracted to him, even though I really doubt he was a true “alpha.” She just wouldn’t control her crazy emotional outbursts, constantly would disrespect him (even while teaching to me to respect men and my future husband), and wouldn’t follow his leadership on many things in our family. It was so weird seeing her say to do one thing, and then seem to have no self-awareness that she herself did the opposite things.”
Having lots of sex because she was attracted to him and having lots of sex because she believed that she was obligated to are completely different things.
I know a couple EXACTLY like your parents. Interesting note is that one of their daughters is exactly like you and the other is a total nutcase. The good one is married to a close family member.
And I should add that the good one is a devout Christian, has a good husband, lots of kids, seems happy, etc. But it took a lot of perseverance and a strong husband to get there.
The other daughter? Used to sleep around a lot. Ended up a lot like her mother in terms of personality. Weird how that works, right?
It was so weird seeing her say to do one thing, and then seem to have no self-awareness that she herself did the opposite things.
I dunno. These seems quite common with women.
Essentially, it was me saying to Mrs deti:
“I am not going to put up with your bullshit anymore, not for one minute. You need to fix this, and I mean fix it RIGHT NOW, or we are done. Things are going to change around here, because I am not going to live this way anymore. Fix it, or this marriage is over.”
Sounded more like she had a bad rebellious attitude problem than a sexual attraction problem.
I wonder if it is the chicken and egg…does the bad attitude kill sexual attraction or does lack of sexual attraction lead to a bad attitude
Letting her get away with being a butthead and treating you like a doormat is what kills the attraction. Basically being the “nice guy” that everyone tells you to be.
While you are at it, do all of the housework and cook for her every night, because as all of the magazine and dating sites say, she’s only turned off because you never help her with these things (not).
No. Those things actually have nothing to do when attraction, in spite of what you’ve been told.
Lots of great comments you guys! You all should be writing posts for me! 🙂
Personally I think all the bpd and npd and what not today come from the 50s on, playpen parenting followed by daycare 10-12 hours a day as soon as 3 months of age. And the whole “me generation” movement.
Dancers dog just had puppies in part bc I didn’t get the puppy I got this summer fixed quite soon enough. Anyway a week ago I helped her deliver five pups (the girls also “helped” but I kept it light for them, I did the tricky stuff) and she has not left their side since. She’s absolutely selflessly devoted. She puts most human moms to shame, I hate to say.
The puppies are chiuaua we ensue dog poodle with a touch of Pomeranian but they are at least 3/4 chiuaua and look the part. Awwwww. Getting everyone fixed ASAP after this!
*weenie dog
I don’t know what I did but I think I accidentally deleted one of a dad’s comments. It’s the one quoted by Array. Sorry about that! I am looking for it to restore it but so far no luck…
btw when you guys argue the stats are double the usual so maybe I should not discourage it? Lol. Kidding! Please don’t argue, not even for more page views!
How about we debate?
Deti,
I have seen you do this before. First at Sunshine Mary’s, where you tried it with her. Then you did it at Spawny’s with Molly. While you claim that it wasn’t personal, in all cases it was personally directed. In all cases, it was against women who are living morally. SSM is married and can’t see anyone as partner other than her husband. Molly, at the time, was a virgin looking for a husband. She found one and has a baby now. I have already covered Stephanie. Why do you browbeat virtuous women? What possible good can it do?
A Dad,
I am not about to gt married to a BPD woman. If you think your experience counts for something, I will remind you that some of us got to see what our mothers put their families through.
fuzzie:
Jesus said to Peter: “you will … ”
Peter said to Jesus: “I won’t!” “… I won’t … I won’t … I won’t”
And then he did.
Peter wasn’t just churchian. He walked and talked with Jesus. And, still, he did. After vehemently denying that he would.
There is a reason that story was included in the Bible. deti is reminding us of that story, and the reason for it. deti is reminding us of the “why” that we commit – to spouse; to children; to community. If temptation did not often derail people’s plans, there would be no need for formal commitment. The existence of formal commitment ceremonies testifies to the truth of the Jesus/Peter sequence presented above.
Circumstances can blindside us and derail us from our duty of care to those in our orbit. One can make an argument that knowing this is true helps lead to better outcomes than not knowing this is true.
Feeling invincible (because “christian”) does no one any good when the reality is that we are all Peter. Even Sunshine Mary. Even Molly. Even Stephanie. I am pleased to see some women here and at Bloom’s using words recently that demonstrate that they get the point behind the Jesus and Peter story. We are all capable of sin when the circumstances are right. Stephanie and others will come to realize the truth of this statement / deti’s statement as they continue to mature in their secular and spiritual growth.
(Google “Peter’s Denial” if you don’t know the story.)
RichardP,
I see it differently. I see it as an exercise in power that only causes harm and resentment. It is a terrible idea to generate resentment in the innocent.
Your all thinking too small anyone here is capable of any evil imaginable. There are no limits to the absolute nonsense we could get up to commit if left to our own device.
Like it says in Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is desperately sick: who can know it?
‘Fuzzie? You ready to join the club? Lots of single BPD women out there that would love to shack up with you.’
Do those women hide it well…or do they use sex to lure you in?
I worked with a guy who had BPD…that was enough to convince me to stay away from that type.
Earl,
Yes, they do use sex to lure you in. Tara Palmatier calls it “love bombing”. While she sees it as a warning sign, it’s very effective.
‘Circumstances can blindside us and derail us from our duty of care to those in our orbit. One can make an argument that knowing this is true helps lead to better outcomes than not knowing this is true.’
That’s why nobody should be so boastful to think they can’t fall. Perhaps the devil gets a whiff of that pride and tries to find a way to bring you down.
‘While she sees it as a warning sign, it’s very effective.’
She might be nuts and try to kill you or call in a false police report to put you in jail…but at least she has the most important thing of sexual attraction.
And I get laughed at when I claim their attitude is more important.
Earl,
May you have the last laugh. I have heard that it is the best.
Fuzzie:
RichardP has the right of it.
All women are like that. All of them.
All humans are like that. All of them.
Peter said I won’t – and then he did. He was restored, so much so that he became the first Pontiff of the new Church Jesus established.
But he still did it.
So did King David with Bathsheba. He knew it was wrong. She knew it was wrong. They both did it anyway. David was (is) a “man after God’s own heart”. He still sinned. He was restored. But he paid dearly for it. As did all of Israel.
Ignore all of this at your own peril.
“A Dad,
I am not about to gt married to a BPD woman. If you think your experience counts for something, I will remind you that some of us got to see what our mothers put their families through.”
—-
Come on, brother. I’m just sorta cracking a joke that we all sorta seemed to have married crazy at some point.
If you had troubles with a messed up mother, you’ve got to break out of that rut. It can ruin you for years. I’ve talked about the impact that my mother’s behaviors had on us. Perhaps you are part of a growing number of men that aren’t happy with the situation at all? The manosphere is full of guys who were mostly raised by single mothers who ruined them. The extreme folks that are full of anger are acting out in a state of backlash. Massive numbers of young men who are not happy and were severely disadvantaged from birth. Lots of young women too, but they act out on it in a much different way. They are also angry but blame the men instead.
Fuzzie:
You also need to ratchet up the courage to face the truth.
Fuzzie,
What evidence do you have besides their own words that these women are virtuous? Do you live with them and can tell if their words match up with their actions or are you just basing this all on what they say about themselves? If I have learned anything in the manosphere its that a woman’s word is hardly reliable.
Bill:
I believe these women are virtuous.
Their “virtue” (which is a misnomer since it describes masculine characteristics; the word is in part a derivative of the Latin vir, translated “man”) does not make them perfect nor without sin.
Everyone here talking about women’s virtue needs a reminder about Judgy Bitch’s post from last year. Heeeeere it is:
http://judgybitch.com/2016/10/25/martial-arts-mens-rights-and-what-it-means-to-be-a-man/
And Heeeeere’s the money shot quote:
Asking myself difficult questions leads to some unpleasant conclusions. Is my husband a good man? Most assuredly. Is he good at being a man? Not really. No. Measured in terms of being a good provider, he is absolutely good at being a man. Measured in terms of his ability to physically defend us, with blood and muscle and sinew and sweat? Nope. Not a chance. In his mind, that doesn’t matter. He can pay ‘meatheads’ (his words, not mine) to provide security for us. Or he can rely on me.
I don’t like that. But I am no better.
Am I good at being a woman? I undermine all my femininity by being violent and brutal and vicious. When I am training in the woods with a class, and I walk beside my main instructor, people get the fuck out of our way. We are a formidable pair, backed by even more formidable friends. I like that, but how feminine is that? It’s not. There isn’t anything particularly womanly about it. This troubles me.
Res fucking ipsa loquitur.
Did you catch all that? JB is all but confessing to an emotional affair with her martial arts instructor. She’s clearly tingling so hard for her instructor that she’s questioning her husband’s masculinity, and all but calling him a coward and a pussy IN PUBLIC. She essentially publicly emasculated HER OWN HUSBAND on a goddamn BLOG POST. IN PUBLIC.
I wouldn’t put up with this from Mrs deti for one fucking second. I fucking swear to God if my wife ever did anything like that, the papers would be on file so fucking fast it would make everyone’s head spin. She’s already said something like this to me once. If she ever does it again, the marriage is over, and she knows it.
All. Women. Are. Like. That. Even woke women. Even red pill women.
“I believe these women are virtuous.”
By what evidence though? Do you just believe what they say about themselves?
What you say is true but I am going by what virtuous commonly means.
“having or showing high moral standards.
“she considered herself very virtuous because she neither drank nor smoked”
synonyms: righteous, good, pure, whiter than white, saintly, angelic, moral, ethical, upright, upstanding, high-minded, principled, exemplary”
How do we determine someone having high moral standards by their words online?
I think not believing what people here are telling about their lives would not be a very good base for conversation or debate. Of course it is possible that some are lying but how would you tell who is lying and who is not. Thing is that we all could be liars here since no one knows each other in person.
And Heeeeere’s our own host’s thoughts on The Bitchy One’s post from back then (bold added by me for emphasis):
JB, I don’t often comment here but I have read your blog for a long time and I admire and respect your writing.
Cadders had some good food for thought. I think it is good and wise that you wrote this out, bared your inner feelings, and hopefully you and all reading along can see AWALT. Potentially. Yep. You. Me. ALL WOMEN. Like it or not. Especially in uncertain times like these. And knowing that helps when the hamster starts telling you, “this is different” or “not me.” When a woman starts feeling another man is “better” than her husband (maybe richer? Stronger? Smarter? More status? Hypergamy can take many forms) danger. No man is everything. There will always be one richer, or stronger, or smarter, or higher status. You’ve chosen your one, for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. Be true to him. And to your choice, even if it means ripping the one who “seems” better out of your heart and life to eliminate temptation and turn back to your mate.
Or that’s what I would advise, to a female friend. If I have overstepped in any way please forgive me. It took a lot of guts for you to write this. I hope it will help other women in their own moment of struggle to resist.
QED.
Res fucking ipsa loquitur.
Have.
The.
Courage.
To.
Face.
The.
Truth.
And heeere’s The Bitchy One’s response to Bloom:
One thing I have come to understand is that I am definitely, intensely drawn to Leo’s [my martial arts instructor] utter domination of me, in terms of martial skills. This forms the basis of trust. I can, and I AM learning very rapidly from him because I trust his superior knowledge and when he applies a technique to me, I can let go of fear and just experience the haptics and learn what I need to learn.
Translation:
I am so attracted to my instructor I can barely stand it. I am tingling HARD when I’m around him. I trust him. I let go of fear around him. I can’t do that with my husband. I can learn from my instructor. I can’t learn from my husband because he has nothing to teach me.
Did you get all that? She is basically confessing hard, visceral attraction for a masculine man.
All. Women. Are. Like. That.
Have the courage to face the truth.
And heeeere’s Cadders, a sometime poster at Spawny’s, on JB’s confession of her feelings for her martial arts instructor:
The most profound ‘tell’ in this post is the dis-respect for your husband.
‘Is he good at being a man? Not really. No.’ I struggle to think of a more effective way to destroy your husband. The fact that you couch it in such ‘oh-so-serious’ rationalisation and ‘context’ is just typical female dissimulation – a way to state after the fact ‘oh I didn’t mean it *that* way’. Doesn’t matter – it’s already been said, the harm has been done – as was intended.
I’ve never seen you speak so disrespectfully of him in anything I’ve read of yours in the past. You know he doesn’t like you doing this but you refuse to stop. At 5 hours a time 5 days a week you are not even open to meeting him half-way.
At the same time you are building up his replacement. You talk proudly of walking ‘at his side’, and now you are ‘working together’ on a book. Was that his idea or yours? Be honest now – he’s an instructor and you’re a writer. How convenient that you now have an excuse for some private one on one time with him. More plausible deny-ability – and yes one of the people you are fooling is yourself.
It’s always in the respect Janet. You are losing your respect for your husband and with it will go your love. And then your family. Worth it?
Have the courage to face the truth.
Yes all human beings are like that. Temptation is something people will encounter since people don’t lose the ability to get attracted to other people when in a relationship. Though I think this woman is not very wise if she is still seeing his instructor regularly. She should change her teacher. One of the best way to forget the temptation is by cutting all contact with the source of temptation. But I guess she doesn’t want to admit she is attracted to her teacher.
More from the thread:
a poster named “plumpplumberbalding”:
Your husband has already shown you that he’s going to pull away. Can’t say as I blame him. You aren’t who he married. I don’t have a real problem with a violent woman….I was married to one. But if someone neutral reads your post, they can see that you’re headed out the door. Cold hard fact is this…..if you train with another male, your husband will leave you. And he would be right.
You are getting “emotional support” from another man. You cannot unring that bell.
And The Bitchy One’s response:
There really is no denying this. Getting hurt and hurting others takes an emotional toll, and it’s an emotional toll I am paying to another man because my husband refuses to take this journey with me. I don’t resent him for that. He is a different person. I’m okay with that. I DO resent feeling guilty and disloyal, but I also understand that is coming from ME, not him.
Basically, a confession of her emotional involvement with a man who is not her husband. That’s where infidelity starts, people. And she admits she feels guilt and disloyalty. And yet she will not stop, and says she will keep doing this and keep training and keep exposing herself to her emotional involvement with a man she is CLEARLY more sexually attracted to than she is to her husband.
Have the courage to face the truth.
italics close fail. Italics should end after “I also understand that is coming from ME, not him.”
“I think not believing what people here are telling about their lives would not be a very good base for conversation or debate. Of course it is possible that some are lying but how would you tell who is lying and who is not. Thing is that we all could be liars here since no one knows each other in person.”
————
Rosalie – I agree. That doesn’t just go for here, but everywhere. If there is one thing that I’ve learned it’s that nearly everyone is full of shit and will do everything that they can to paint a good picture of themselves, mainly because most people can’t handle even looking in the mirror objectively let alone showing their true colors to everyone else. That’s why I tend to prefer dealing with people who are brutally honest, no matter how hard it can hurt. Because those people tend to also be the most honest about themselves.
Anyone who blows smoke up your ass is also going to lie about themselves.
“Bill” has a point. There is no proof that any one is who they say they are online.
I think it is worth noting that a lot of things imputed to people are more projection than based on anything they have said about themselves.
I don’t know anything for instance that I have said about myself online that could possibly be interpreted as a statement of virtue. Just the opposite in fact and that’s true no matter how far back you read. What people choose to extract from another’s words is as much about them as the writer.
I suspect the ideal is to somehow have ongoing conversations with people without talking about yourself. Very few women are able to pull that off, though some can.
I try to mitigate it by having real life friends and some family read my blog but that is not enough to persuade strangers. Of course, if the aim is to persuade strangers Of our virtue that itself is evidence of the absence of it.
The funny part of the comment I just wrote -without thinking first- will be the number of views of posts where anything was written that offers even hint of a whiff of self esteem, LOL. I don’t even buy into the self esteem concept, preferring human dignity, but…
‘Did you catch all that?’
I caught the part where she said she’s undermining her own femininity. That sounds like the start of a rebellious attitude.
She’s being rebellious to her husband by thinking she’s more of a man than he is (because she knows a little martial art…big deal, most men could still take her out). Then feels great when she finds a more masculine man than she thinks she is. Seems like the AWALT temptation is to give up being feminine and to try and take over the male role.
Something I have learned with age, via my own experiences and by watching others, is that it’s just not worth it, coloring outside the lines. Not that temptation doesn’t still exist, but I always go back to, “Isn’t my life complicated enough?” And the answer is always, “Yes it is.”
I could easily “get away” with cheating. My partner lives in another city, there are hot men I know I could call who would be down with it, I could cover my tracks and never tell a soul. But I don’t because I know it would not be worth it. I like my life simple. Coloring inside the lines keeps life simple. That alone is reason enough for me!
Yet knowing I am not immune to temptation I also avoid those men, am never alone w them, and basically make sure it’s not possible for it to “just happen.”
“What evidence do you have besides their own words that these women are virtuous? Do you live with them and can tell if their words match up with their actions or are you just basing this all on what they say about themselves? If I have learned anything in the manosphere its that a woman’s word is hardly reliable.”
Oh believe me I’m definitely aware I’ve got a sin nature… I even wrote about how I felt when we first got pregnant (the whole abortion possibility) 😦 and I am still very ashamed of that. I mean, at least I made the right choice, but the temptation when there was still showing my potential for evil 😦 Anyway, even that is something I wrote about to my readers.
And I know for sure “hypergamy” is real, even though I’d NEVER want it to be. Thinking about doing a post on that with hopefully guest post writers (females) who have more experience on it throughout a longer marriage than mine.
And… anyone could always ask my husband (on my blog… just leave a comment). He’ll even respond to you via email if you want his personal opinion on what I’m like in real life 🙂