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advice, breakup, breakups, dating, divorce, family, happiness, happy, life, marriage, red pill, relationship success, relatonships
Wish you could look into a crystal ball and see if your relationship was destined to succeed or fail? Researchers think they have found the answer that separates relationship masters from relationship disasters. From here:
“…Gottman can predict with up to 94 percent certainty whether couples … will be broken up, together and unhappy, or together and happy several years later. Much of it comes down to the spirit couples bring to the relationship. Do they bring kindness and generosity; or contempt, criticism, and hostility?
“There’s a habit of mind that the masters have,” Gottman explained in an interview, “which is this: they are scanning social environment for things they can appreciate and say thank you for. They are building this culture of respect and appreciation very purposefully. Disasters are scanning the social environment for partners’ mistakes.”
“It’s not just scanning environment,” chimed in Julie Gottman. “It’s scanning the partner for what the partner is doing right or scanning him for what he’s doing wrong and criticizing versus respecting him and expressing appreciation.”
Contempt, they have found, is the number one factor that tears couples apart. People who are focused on criticizing their partners miss a whopping 50 percent of positive things their partners are doing and they see negativity when it’s not there.”
In real life I would say I have seen this to be the case. Those I know in troubled, angsty relationships are always on the lookout for their partner to do them wrong or fall short, while the couples who seem most content are those who have a positive view.
The good news is both approaches are a choice, a mindset. If you aren’t already, start giving your partner the benefit of the doubt and look for the good in them rather than the bad, assume the best instead of the worst. Not only will they likely start feeling a lot better about the relationship (and you!), chances are you’ll start feeling so as well.
It’s easy to find fault, to focus on the negative. In fact, the human mind seems geared to see what’s missing more prominantly than what’s not. And while it likely serves us well in some ways, it can also create much unhappiness because let’s face it — there will always be something going wrong, even when 99.9% is going right! And really, how often in life is even 51% or more going wrong? In mine the answer has been rarely, or actually never, even if I have not always acted (or felt) like it. Even on the very worst days (not that I am daring the universe here…)
What do you think? Have you seen this master or disaster approach to relationships in real life? Is seeing the glass half full the secret to a long and happy relationship? Please share in the comments.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Here is a relevant link
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/taking-out-the-garbage/
Old trick from psychology.
Say something seven times and you or your audience believes it.
So….
Going out with the girls\guys and one uping “oh yeah, my spouse is so bad they blah blah.” Even though you like them and its just talking smack.
Hmmm do this a few times and suddenly…
Boom.
Hey! They are bad for doing blah blah…..
Duh!!!
Self reinforcing feedback loop.
I make a point of every morning greeting Mrs in the sunroom for coffee (she is up way before me) with
“How is my Sweetie?
Morning My Love
Or
Good morning, good wife.”
And most days she thanks me when I come home from work or the fields.
Good for each other but good for ourselves. Reinforces we have a good spouse in our own minds using the same rule of seven.
Best link ever Farmboy!!!!
Thanks for the memory of when Liz talked about farts for a few comments straight!!!!
LOL!
Happy New Year Spawny & RPG Peeps!!!!!!!!!
❤
Here is another relevant link
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/never-stop-taking-out-the-garbage/
Happy New Year to all! And let us all resolve to see the best in each other and ours in 2018. 😀
…and also w/I ourselves! 🙂 Cheers!
🙂 It’s REALLY hard for me to see any bad in my husband. He is so good. So wonderful, and such an amazing father to our children.
He’s really hard on himself at times anyway, it’d be brutal if I was to pile on when he was down. And thankfully he’s not usually down 🙂
Him going through that time of a few months being injured and being sent to that place where the wives warned me most men lose their motivation “The Land of No Return” and “No-Man’s Land,” was difficult but we got through it. It was nice getting to take care of him being injured even though I was terrified I’d make it worse somehow by being overly nice to where he’d feel useless or something.
Anyway… it all worked out and he’s better and I think we’re stronger for going through that time.
Here is another relevant post
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/perfection-the-enemy-of-contentment/
Thank Goodnrss for that Stephanie! I am so happy he fought back from “The Land of No Return” w his Lady at his side! 😀 That’s the way!
🙂 Maybe it’s perspective, Bloom, we’ve known couples who have had much worse and that definitely helps us both see the good in things we do have ❤
I'm so happy for you and your girls! 2018 should be a hopefully beautiful year for y'all.
Farmboy, I still think about that lemon cake/yellow cake story sometimes randomly when I’m in my kitchen! You write good posts when a stranger remembers them randomly!
We’ve had many things like that happen… some embarrassing ones even. TMI (but worth it) this last baby being born I needed him to get me some pads because it’s typical to bleed about 2-4 weeks after the birth. I was expecting like a normal package or something… but OMG he literally bought me like the HUGEST pack of diaper-like old lady pads… and it was like some sort of value pack that had like 100 of them in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I literally died laughing and told him I’d never run out – that it’d be the never-ending package of “pads” (diapers!!) ever in existence.
It’s still there… under our sink… it’s never going to run out!
Lol I often remember the cake mix story as well! Clearly a Farm Boy classic! 🙂
And I mean… I could totally throw them away LOL… but it’s good to keep just in case we ever have some kind of freak accident emergency…
I’d be like…
WAIT!!!!! I’ve got some REALLY GREAT absorbent pads!!!!!
LOL Last post, I swear (sorry Bloom!)
I was just think Stephanie how great it would be to have them for my elderly female Labrador who has been having issues… Cut a tail hole and the granny pants would be good to go! Lol. She’s such a sweet dear old gal, every day is a gift. Even w her sometimes, ahem, issue…
It’s true you never know when you’d need something or at the least I am sure they could be donated and someone somewhere would be thankful. They aren’t cheap!
That’s true, I really could donate them, that’s a good idea… I know I did joke with him about them lasting for the next baby 😀
And the terrible thing is that they were really great for that lol… yuck! But with the next baby we’ll be covered. Probably for if I had 20 more babies 😀
And it really is endearing that he did that, maybe keeping them makes me love him even more, because it’s a reminder that he’s so masculine he didn’t know better.
it has to be a couple effort. both have to be focusing on the good rather than the bad.
in my first marriage … when some of the things came out at the end, those close to me were shocked b/c i never spoke ill of him. i learned through some things he did that he had thought ill of me for many, many years. i knew he was unhappy and didn’t like things, but he refused to tell me what they were. i would ask him what he wanted from me, what he wanted me to change, and he would tell me repeatedly, “It’s not you; it’s me.” until the end, then he blamed it all on me. but i never knew what i did wrong.
it takes two to stay married but only one to divorce. one person in the marriage can do everything right and possible to stay married, but if the other refuses to stay, it’s over.
(i’ll have to go read those links when i have time … miss Liz and look forward to her return this summer! 🙂 )
That is also true Ame. I have been there as well. Things are so much easier all around w my guy now, no walking on eggshells, wondering what I did, no matter how hard I tried, always somehow falling short. I appreciate him all the more having experienced the opposite!
Yes! Me, too 😊
I think that’s why I understand (as much as a woman can understand a man) the guys who’ve been done wrong. It’s not pretty. I’m very thankful for my guy now, too … among many other things I’ve learned what it’s like to live in a healthy relationship and never have to walk on
egg shells. So freeing and safe.
contempt: ‘the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.’
As you can see that mindset is neither loving nor respectful. In fact it’s very prideful.
And how much of the brainwashing out there is promoting that very thing. Not just between the sexes, but between the races, the classes, the cultures, and the religions.
It really does depend on the mindset as per the OP. I just saw another wife complaining about circumstances that really weren’t that bad last night (mostly fireworks in the city of all things), and another wife tried to get her to see it in a positive light, and she listed all these things to be grateful for. It was so sweet and I applauded her for it. But the complaining wife just couldn’t do it – she even replied to all of us that she’s “just not like that” (meaning she’s just not capable of bringing herself to look on the brightside of things).
Last year, that same wife was telling us very seriously that she was thinking about divorcing her husband just because he had been studying to promote to detective (it does take a lot of time away from family, but most of us just suck it up). Lots of wives tried to tell her he was only less than 14 days away from taking the test, but she was actually serious. They tried all kinds of positives about him doing that for them as a family, the huge increase in pay, the safety as he wouldn’t be so much on the street, nothing helped.
Then months later, when he gave her a new badge necklace with his promoted stuff on it, she actually had the gall to brag about it online, poor woman. Just totally not able to see how awful all of that looks.
Anyway….
My point is that… maybe some people (men and women) are just not capable of seeing things in a good light, even if they kind of wanted to.
Maybe they’re actually addicted to feeling offended or upset all the time. Maybe it gives their life “purpose” lol as awful as that sounds. Or it at least is a pre-occupation with things so that they can’t focus on important things in their life.
I believe her when she said to us that she just “wasn’t like that,” meaning that she just wasn’t grateful naturally. It’s just sad that maybe for some people, they literally don’t see that there could be another way for them.
True Stephanie, the gal I was counseling against frivorce was like that, at least w her mate. She literally could not see the good. She also seemed unable (likely pride) of taking steps to improve things. She pulled back a few months ago, I hope she didn’t do so bc she’s going to divorce and was preemptively distancing from the “pro-marriage” camp in her life. If she does go through with it, she’s going to see… Things are much more tough on ones own than she thinks it will be.
As frustrating as such people are I feel sad for them too. What a miserable way to be and live! 😦
LOL I greet The Girls with a hearty what’s up bitches and a slap on the ass
Also where I live people like her are trying to get fireworks banned. That really ticks me off. I like fireworks! And true they are loud and my dogs don’t like them and it went past 2 am last night but all the same I’d much rather they remain legal than be banned bc a few squeaky wheels don’t like the noise.
Stephanie – I think that many of these people feel in control / empowered by that behavior. It makes no sense to me, but there can’t be any rational reason for it. They often have anger management issues to deal with as well. I know that my ex did. She was constantly angry about something and used silent treatment to build a wall. But it made her feel that she was in control in a world where she really had none. All it does is make life awkward for everyone in the home. In retrospect, she was always that way. I saw it a bit around 20 years ago, but it progressively got worse over the years to a point where it completely consumed her.
All I can say now is that I can finally breath. No more eggshells here as RPG and Ame mentioned.
I can look back though and see how our personalities changed over the years. Some of my good and bad characteristics might have rubbed off on her, and likewise some of her good and bad traits rubbed off on me. The good is easy for most people to overlook, to a point where only the negative parts remain to make two people into a toxic combination. By the time that people hit that point, they have to be completely invested in throwing out the bad and only giving the good, because it’s a challenge to turn it all around.
Only a couple that is willing to look within their own hearts to purge the darkest parts is likely going to succeed. I’ve constantly tried to look inside my own heart and cast out the bad parts, but it takes time. It’s a painful process and might make you appear to be weak in the presence of those you love the most. It’s a difficult place for many to be, especially with someone who’s hardened her own heart. A man, especially, can never show that side to his wife because she often will question her love for a man that shows weakness or his own inner-turmoil.
What predicts relationship success? I think that in reality it’s only about having two people that can look objectively at their own behaviors and work to overcome the bad parts. Share the good and bury the bad, accept that there will be mistakes but also know that forgiveness is the only thing that can heal a wounded heart. But both people have to be 100% willing to do this.
Maybe a pretty easy way to weed out failure when you look at it critically:
1. Does the person seem to be joyful or sad?
2. Does the person seem to trust and admire you, or feel loathing and disgust?
3. Does the person seem to be genuinely interested in you, or are they easily distracted by other things?
But how do we keep those positives? I’ve seen relationships go from one end of the spectrum to the other, seemingly overnight. My own did even though it lasted a fairly long time by today’s standards.
One thing that is fascinating to me is the fact that genetics seem to be a factor in how emotion is processed. In this culture, we seem to be actually breeding neuroticism into our very gene pool by virtue of modern laws that tend to protect the weakest links; Easy no-fault divorce, easy access to sex between low quality partners, an empowered class of lower IQ people that seem to now have a greater influence on law. I’d say that healthy and successful relationships normally come from higher IQ people, up to a point. Take note of the demographics for marriage today. The wealthier middle / upper-class seem to be marrying (not always extremely intelligent people, but often high enough IQ to be successful), while those who are less advantaged and are without the means to make it seem to be actually reproducing at astonishing rates.
Unfortunately it seems Dancer is starting the New Year on her own. Her bf informed her he wants to “take a break.” I am not surprised but it’s still a bummer. She likes him a whole lot. Sadly, the feeling does not seem to be mutual. Some of it was her inability to control her anxiety and shit tests, some was him not being over the ex. We’ll see what happens…
Bullet dodged for that fella
@ a dad it is tricky bc in both cases where the dynamic turned negative for me, initially things were very positive it seemed. Maybe “too” positive. I think some people go from all to nothing, initially putting one on a pedastal, then inevitably there is some fall, and then scorn after.
I think if someone approaches w a “finally YOU make my life complete/happy” it’s a bad thing. Bc later that becomes “you are everything wrong in my life.” Once I realized this I decided to seek someone who was already happy/complete and to be that myself. Happiness is an inside job but if someone doesn’t get that, almost always their romantic partner eventually becomes the target of their discontent.
What predicts relationship success?
……..
The time she spends on her knees in front of you
If she had a better attitude he wouldn’t of pined for the ex. It’s that simple.
Ton – Agreed on Dancer’s guy. RPG, I know you like that woman but I find that there is something extremely unstable about her and she’s hiding a lot of it. The boyfriend seems to be attracted to some of this and it’s not a good place for him to be.
Everyone has at least one negative. My mom used to say that to be a good friend one must be willing to ignore at least one major character defect.
When your wife focuses like a laser on your defect and ignores all the positives, it just drains all the joy from living. When her resentment is constant to the point where, when asked, she honestly cannot think of a single thing she appreciates about you…..
I’m tall, strong, former pro athlete. Attractive enough to be used as a model a few times. Intelligent enough to have a doctorate. Romantic — roses 15-20 times a year, put her to sleep with back rubs most nights. Committed father to our kids (I take them to the doctor, coach their sports teams, go to parent night at school). I would have no difficulty at all attracting quality women.
But I don’t make enough for her to quit work and still have us live the upper-middle class lifestyle she demands. So she resents the hell out of me every day she works. To the point where, when asked, she could not think of a single thing she appreciates about me. Longest 20 seconds of my life.
After her numerous betrayals, I’ve stayed for the kids. She keeps telling me that if I could only fix my problem and get rich, we could be so happy. With a sex life as lousy as ours, I doubt she’s really tried to see things from my perspective. 😉
But the youngest will go off to college some day ….
My brother calls his wife and daughter Big Shit and Little Shit. (reference only to age as both are tiny)
@Anon, I am sorry to hear that. I asked my ex the same question once, with the same results. Not good. I admire your dedication to your children. And you are right, they will go off to college some day.
@ a dad, I do have to admit I was kind of fond of the idea of her moving into his place in a year or two… not that it is about me! I think both of them have some self work to do before they can really come at a relationship from a good place.
“I think that many of these people feel in control / empowered by that behavior. It makes no sense to me, but there can’t be any rational reason for it. They often have anger management issues to deal with as well. I know that my ex did. She was constantly angry about something and used silent treatment to build a wall. But it made her feel that she was in control in a world where she really had none.”
@A Dad, that is awful 😦 I’m glad you’re able to breathe now. And that makes sense about it being a control thing.
“I’m tall, strong, former pro athlete. Attractive enough to be used as a model a few times. Intelligent enough to have a doctorate. Romantic — roses 15-20 times a year, put her to sleep with back rubs most nights. Committed father to our kids (I take them to the doctor, coach their sports teams, go to parent night at school). I would have no difficulty at all attracting quality women.”
You don’t have to answer this, but I’ve always wondered what keeps someone like you (an attractive, high value man) from just divorcing and moving on?
In biblical days, you’d be able to get a second wife and at least hope for happiness/pleasure from her (and make your first wife insanely jealous because the second wife could be younger/prettier, and maybe she’d finally start to have some introspection and humility – well deserved). But now days there’s nothing a man can really do except for divorce and lose everything.
Maybe I’ve answered my own question as to why you stay then.
I’ve seen men like you put up with so much, and honestly, it is really hard to understand from my point of view, how someone can live like that longterm.
Unless you are waiting for divorce when the youngest is gone I guess?
@ Anon, maybe someone can slip her a few links to this blog? Like Stephanie, I see guys in your situation so often and it amazes me how women can be so blind to what a treasure they have! The guys here could advise you better than me, there are things you can do to “wake up” such a woman, maybe they can post some links? Guys?
‘When your wife focuses like a laser on your defect and ignores all the positives, it just drains all the joy from living. When her resentment is constant to the point where, when asked, she honestly cannot think of a single thing she appreciates about you…..’
Sounds more like she’s trying to cover up her own faults by only focusing on yours.
” Like Stephanie, I see guys in your situation so often and it amazes me how women can be so blind to what a treasure they have! ”
Yea… something I’m really grateful my mom taught me was to find a good man like that, someone who often marries a woman who mistreats him, and RESCUE him from that fate 🙂 She was serious and I took it seriously ❤
And this is just really random, but thinking along the lines of (usually a younger) woman rescuing a man who married a horrible woman (or would have because he was sweet and good) – there are some really good novels with that plot-line.
Jane Eyre… a younger somewhat plain but very kind and sweet woman, rescues a man a bit older than her who married a woman who turned schizophrenic (or already was schizo). Finally he’s able to marry Jane and find immense happiness and have the joy of children with a sweet, respectful wife.
In Rebecca, the much younger, nameless woman, rescues Max De Winter – the rich man who married a terrible psycho woman “Rebecca” who constantly cheated on him – until he murdered her…. Lots of drama but the young woman manages to make him happy in the end. 🙂
Seems like rescuing good men who married horrible women is something that’s “normal.”
“In biblical days, you’d get a second wife…” Now a days some of these men get mistresses, girlfriends, etc. Most just need to feel appreciated and attractive to the opposite sex.
Call me crazy, but I think all relationships will fail unless 1 party in the relationship (can be the male or female, but it’s usually the male based on statistics) is the leader/dominant party and 1 is more submissive. I see too many people trying to have 50-50 relationships. Those don’t work in business and they don’t work in the bedroom either. There has to be sexual tension and the couple has to be opposites of each and compliment each other – not fight for power or be equals 50-50.
Steph: “I’ve seen men like you put up with so much, and honestly, it is really hard to understand from my point of view, how someone can live like that longterm.”
Some men find their identity in being a family man, a family pillar. This has nothing to do with having a good relationship or lifestyle with a woman.
A man with this outlook sees divorce and dissolution of his family as a form of suicide. It may never have occurred to him that it would ever happen to him. So he lives the illusion that his marriage and family are what he and his wife said they would be.
Some men find their identity in being a family man, a family pillar. This has nothing to do with having a good relationship or lifestyle with a woman.
A man with this outlook sees divorce and dissolution of his family as a form of suicide. It may never have occurred to him that it would ever happen to him. So he lives the illusion that his marriage and family are what he and his wife said they would be.
this is how I saw marriage and divorce … my identity was wrapped up in being my husband’s wife, and then when we had children added to my identity was being our childrens’ mother. I saw the dissolution of our marriage as a form of suicide – that’s a great description. and it never, ever, ever occurred to me that IT would happen to me, to us. I would have bet my life that he was faithful to me, and I would have lost. I was willing to continue the illusion to have the marriage and family that I gave everything to. everything. but he left, and that was destroyed. I often feel my second husband is somehow cheated b/c I can’t get back what I already gave, but then I realize I couldn’t have done it any other way. I couldn’t be in a marriage and not give it everything I had. I left it all in that marriage, and i’m not sure i’ll ever fully recover – physically, emotionally, or mentally.
I tell my friends who have stayed married through the years that they have NO idea the gift they are giving each other and their children by staying in there and staying married. divorce destroys. it’s a death that keeps on giving. I plead with God all the time to keep me moving forward, to keep giving me strength, to enable me to continue to live b/c I left so much behind I don’t think i’ll ever be ‘complete’ again.
I understand, Stephanie, that the idea that staying in a bad marriage is incomprehensible … but I also know the cost of divorce … and even eleven years later, the cost continues. if I had my choice – then and now, my divorce would never have happened.
my mom left my dad sometime after my husband left me (so they were married 40+ years). they’re both terrible people … and the home I grew up in was terrible and substandard on so many levels to say the least, but I can tell you that I am EXTREMELY grateful I did not grow up in a broken home – that my parents were married the whole time us kids were growing up … that we didn’t have to split our time between two homes. it sucked, but it would have been intensely worse had they divorced when we were growing up.
and, yes, I am thankful for this man i’m married to now. but … nothing can change the fact that he’s ‘Plan B.’
I also have to say … the divorce literally destroyed the girl my Oldest was. she died the day her daddy told her we were getting divorced. she was seven years old. over the holidays I found some old pics – it was fun to go thru them with my girls – and also a HUGE blessing b/c they were able to look at those pics and not fall apart (HUGE HUGE HUGE – they’ve come SO far in these four years since he died). but there was one particular pick my Oldest looked at of herself before divorce, and she was surprised at the personality that came through. she doesn’t remember that girl. actually, what he did to her the year or so before he died and then his death has caused some permanent brain damage, and she’s forgotten many things, including years of her life. but she does not remember the bubbly, outgoing, extrovert, engage-with-everyone, fun-loving little girl she was … but I do. and I remember clearly watching that little girl die. who she is now is nothing at all like she was.
divorce kills.
I would give up my happy 2nd marriage in a heartbeat if I could go back and somehow stop him from leaving so we could keep our family intact.
I get what you are saying Ame. I try to explain this to people considering divorce all the time. Esp. If there are kids – it’s never “over.” For you or for the kids. Then other relationships come and go on one or both sides, and the kids go through all that. It’s a lot of instability, and like ripples on a pond it keeps going. Walking away is usually the far more difficult path for everyone, even if at the time it seems easier. It’s not. It’s hard to explain this unless one has lived it.
Damn, Ame. Those are some pretty bold words. I get that you wish that things could be different for your children but that’s a really tough choice to make and I’m not sure that the outcome would necessarily be what you imagine. It sounds like you blame yourself and that’s a very easy thing to do (I did for a long time). But you’ve got to accept that even if some of your own actions were different, you might not have been able to change your ex husband either. Let him own at least 50% of it.
My ex-wife seems to be trying to get involved in my life again. I’m incredibly skeptical. I cannot determine if she has her own questionable motives or she’s legitimately regretful of her choices, but I refuse to have some “fake family” that just borrows the parts that she wants to keep while casting out the stuff that she can’t handle.
I sometimes tell myself that I’d take everything back for my son’s sake, but realize that would be a terrible mistake and I’d be potentially be back in that horrible place again. And while I’ve not completely rejected the possibility that she could come back, there would be some massive changes and she’d have to be pretty damn sincere about owning up to her half of the problems with a commitment to fix it. There only one captain of this ship.
Damn, Ame. Those are some pretty bold words. I get that you wish that things could be different for your children but that’s a really tough choice to make and I’m not sure that the outcome would necessarily be what you imagine. It sounds like you blame yourself and that’s a very easy thing to do (I did for a long time). But you’ve got to accept that even if some of your own actions were different, you might not have been able to change your ex husband either. Let him own at least 50% of it.
A Dad – it’s not about divvying up ownership. it’s about cold, hard reality. facts. how it is.
no, the outcome would not be what I could imagine; I can’t imagine it. not after living through what we have.
– – –
My ex-wife seems to be trying to get involved in my life again. I’m incredibly skeptical.
is there any way you can legally protect yourself if you do allow something again? i don’t read everything written out here, but from what i remember your wife went thru some harsh stuff/abuse? the least i’d require is some sort of therapy – you pick out the therapist. dealing with that stuff is very hard (btdt), but not dealing with it is worse.
i’ll also say … it’s was no surprise my mom left my dad. she actually verbalized what I knew was true several years ago when she said to my face, “You have no idea how many times I wanted to leave you when you were growing up.” (absolutely NO mom-of-the-year awards for her). but I still hate that they’re divorced. we all do. it’s better that it was after we were all grown and gone … but it still sucks.
Ame – I don’t know what sort of legal protections would work. I would have a hard time putting myself back into that position again.
Once a caged bird is free, it doesn’t return to its cage. Though I have not been married and divorced with children, I have experienced a bad relationship or two. I’ve learned people don’t change. Yes, they may regret and have remorse but we are who we are. I would think your child would enjoy you much more as a happier person now vs one who was stressed and going through the ups and downs of a troubled relationship.
I would give up my happy 2nd marriage in a heartbeat if I could go back and somehow stop him from leaving so we could keep our family intact.
……
Which is why men should never marry a divorced chick… well shouldn’t marry period but y’all get my point
My ex-wife seems to be trying to get involved in my life
……..
Just say no. Time spent on the next bitch is always a better investment on time spent on your ex bitch
I would give up my happy 2nd marriage in a heartbeat if I could go back and somehow stop him from leaving so we could keep our family intact.
……
Which is why men should never marry a divorced chick… well shouldn’t marry period but y’all get my point
i actually do agree with you, Ton – in the least the next husband must accept and understand this. in our case, i wish the same for him and know it would have been best if his ex hadn’t pulled the same sh** experienced by most of you men out here.
since we both accept this about each other, we accept what we have to give (much less than 1st marriage), and we accept all the baggage that comes with all of that. we choose to leave it in the past (without denying it or ignoring it), to deal with the present, and to move towards the future. we choose to accept what we have and to make the best of it. honestly, i think we *lucked out* with each other – it’s ‘perfectly imperfect.’
now i don’t go around calling him my ‘plan b’ or anything at all like that … it’s just an understanding and an acceptance of what it was and what it is now … with a bit of occasional longing for what it could have been if … .
A Dad – from the little i’ve gathered that you’ve shared, i think the probability of her changing enough to improve the situation is very low. she’d have to hit rock bottom, acknowledge her crap, deal with it, move forward, and then have enough time behind her to prove she’s made the changes and improvements and dealt with it all … and you’re talking a minimum of five or ten years there.
i was in therapy for about 2.5 years – very intense, weekly + email, kick-my-butt, therapy. concurrent i also attended recovery groups and an extremely intense six month sexual abuse recovery group – that group was one of the hardest and consequently one of the the best things i ever did. but i’m tellin ya, that was some seriously hard stuff. it sucks to face all that crap, acknowledge it, deal with it, make the changes necessary, then prove those changes in your life over time. and i’ll be honest – very few do it.
I love Ton’s brutal honesty.
I can’t even imagine being married again, to be honest. I gave it a solid shot which is what we are apparently supposed to do these days as men even though the risks are high.
Ame – I think that things are going to change a lot for you as time passes. Your kids will grow and you will be able to spend more time enjoying life with your guy. Just support him and he will support you. He won’t be “Plan B” anymore as life starts to come together. There will be some challenges, for sure, but life is really long and people seem to make it.
My siblings and I came out of a situation that isn’t entirely unlike what you describe, but my mother and her husband are very good for one another and very happy. My siblings have fared better than I have but even kids with tough childhoods seem to make it if they are willing to put in the work to avoid making some of the same mistakes. Some of it cannot be avoided. I never thought I’d be divorced but still made it through 20 years with someone.
‘Throughout the day, partners would make requests for connection, what Gottman calls “bids.” For example, say that the husband is a bird enthusiast and notices a goldfinch fly across the yard. He might say to his wife, “Look at that beautiful bird outside!” He’s not just commenting on the bird here: he’s requesting a response from his wife — a sign of interest or support — hoping they’ll connect, however momentarily, over the bird.
The wife now has a choice. She can respond by either “turning toward” or “turning away” from her husband, as Gottman puts it. Though the bird-bid might seem minor and silly, it can actually reveal a lot about the health of the relationship. The husband thought the bird was important enough to bring it up in conversation and the question is whether his wife recognizes and respects that.’
Granted I’m not married…but I always knew it was the end of the end in my relationships when the signs of interest/response went to nothing.
I love Ton’s brutal honesty.
🙂
keeps us on the straight and narrow with our eyes wide open! 🙂
That makes sense, BV, just so sad.
Just catching up on all the comments… good stuff, and it’s very interesting to hear what divorce is really like for women who have lived through it – I definitely believe you, Ame, your perspective is valid.
thank you, Stephanie. that’s what makes it so hard … no one can conceive what it’s like till they’ve been there.
the one tree God told Adam and Even not to eat from was the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good AND evil. when we ‘eat of’ sin, it is THEN we become knowledgeable of the good AND evil of what we do. and divorce is sin. someone screwed up for that marriage to end in divorce. Satan is the great deceiver, and he does not want anyone to know the truth, so he makes it look really good and wonderful and the best thing ever. so it’s not till you’ve eaten the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil of divorce that you know.
– – –
following up with Ton’s wisdom . . .
I love kids. I mean, I LOVE children. I’ve been watching/keeping/baby sitting kids since my sisters were born when I was 5 and 6 years old (yeah, I know … that’s too young … but my mom thinks it’s awesome that six year old me got up in the middle of the night to give my baby sister her feedings, etc).
so I love my step son – he and my Oldest are just two months apart, and we’ve lived physically close to him since his dad and I married. and my husband loves my girls – he’s been great with them. they’ve had a chance to learn what it’s like to live with a man who is not mean or spiteful or reactive.
but i’ll be honest … I don’t love him like my own. I just don’t. he’s my step son, i’m his step mom … and it’s the same with my girls and my husband. that line in the sand of them vs us has faded as we’ve blended our family, but it will always be there. it just will. now the five of us will stand together against outsiders, but inside, even though it will fade more over time, that line will always be there.
so … choose your Baby Daddy / Baby Mamma wisely … because NO ONE will love that kid like their own mom and dad. no one. I do think there are some rare exceptions – but they are very rare. once you have a kid with someone, you are linked to them for life … and all other kids come in 2nd place to your own … and all other kids come in 2nd place to your ex (if y’all have kids together and the ex remarries).
Pretty normal dynamic. My stepfather is a good man and is great to my mother. But he’s not my dad. Arguably, he’s been more than a father than my biological father in some ways, but that’s just how it is when families get ripped apart.
yeah … but we women don’t get that. we think that if we remarry a ‘good’ man, then our children will ‘finally’ have a great dad. but it doesn’t work that way. just b/c some man is a father figure does not mean he’s the real dad.
and if she can’t get her panties out of a wad, she’s going to do her darndest to make sure she remarries and tries to make her new husband YOUR childrens’ father.
My kid is going into his young adult life with regular quality time with his father, so I don’t think that there is any chance that there would be any replacement. If anything, he’s going to grow distant from his mother within a few years. The signs are already there. And all of it was based upon decisions that she made.
good for you for being there for him, for showing him and teaching him how to be a man.
my guess … the more he pulls away from her the more volatile she will become.
my step son’s mother did lots of stupid things, and I spent a lot of time calming her down and drilling sense into her brain. for some reason that woman adores me and respects me – good for the son. she went on this kick that he was going to murder her if he kept playing video games – sheesh … she got really crazy.
a woman’s perception of reality is often contradictory to what reality actually is – especially in these kinds of circumstances. it’s amazing what they’ll distort themselves into believing (not that you men haven’t experienced more than your share of all that!).
just be aware and thoughtful … depending on how spiteful she is or can become, you could have a real mess on your hands. spiteful, jealous, unforgiving, manipulative women can and will plant lies, create lies, put kids in the middle. … be the parent that takes out the middle.
though it’s usually a woman’s thing, my ex did this all the time to our girls. I simply took out the middle. simple, but not always easy. I made sure I was always our girls safe person – they could tell me anything anytime, and I never got onto them for doing so or for how they did it – angry, mean, resentful, etc. if it was in them, I allowed them the freedom to get it out with me and still be loved and not be disciplined. and I never told them anything I didn’t want him to know … I never wanted them to have to guess if it was okay to tell daddy anything. no secrets from me. I kept all jealousies and anger and maliciousness far away.
this became my continuous prayer: Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Ephesians 4:31-32
Some brutally honest conversation going on here. Feels like a punch to the gut. Themes expressed here repeating themes I’ve seen thoughout my own life, in my extended family and in other famlies.
For many of us raised in stable environments, we start out just trusting, because that is what we do if we’ve been raised in a stable environment. Then something happens and the trust is betrayed. At which point we confront, maybe for the first time, the truth that humans are imperfect. Which means that probably everybody in our lives will fail us at some point. Because they are not perfect. But also because, until we are taught by life not to do it, we tend to project onto others what we want them to be. Whether they be parents, friends, spouse. And we all know well now – folks are who they are, not who we wish them to be or pretend that they are.
Then reality comes to town (ht B.B. King). Trust is strained; sometimes broken. Folks we counted on prove to be imperfect, and prove to be something other than what we projected onto them to start with. We learn that love is a verb – a verb that requires blood sweat and tears to carry off.
We can either go live in the woods so that we don’t ever suffer through an experience like that again (the failure of someone to be who we ‘thought’ they were), or we can lick our wounds, get up, and go back out to greet the world – the real world, not the one created through our projections.
When trust comes this time, it is not just arbitrarily there. It is because we choose to trust. Which raises the point that trust is not really trust until it is conciously chosen. Most of us don’t get to that “choose to trust” part on our own. It usually happens as a result of a wake-up call from life.
Ame – I’d guess that you (in your head) did not marry ‘the man who actually was’ as your first husband. You married ‘the man you saw him to be’, surrounded by what you projected onto him.. I’m guessing that you married your current husband based more on who is actually is. Really seeing him for who he is (not who you want him to be).
Choose to trust. Build a life. The future hasn’t happened yet. It’s ours to invent. (don’t remember the source of that) Don’t waste your time and your children’s time and your husband’s time longing for something to come back that was probably never there, except in your imagination. What you have now is real, not fantasy. It may not be all you wanted (who of us ever gets that). But it will be enough.
As a metaphor for the themes presented in this thread, think of Adam and the Garden of Eden. It seems that he spent most of his life outside of the “paradise” he started out in. But by all appearances, he got on with his life in his new circumstances after everything crashed – and seemed to build something worthwhile for himself, Eve, and the kids. The Bible doesn’t say, but I think he didn’t spend too much time at the Gate to the Garden, looking through it and reminding himself of what he had lost. I believe I have not ever heard anyone preach on that, but it seems to be the “point” of the Garden story. Adam didn’t have to think about a thing inside the Garden. Things crashed, and forever after he had to do everything on purpose. Even trust. Even love.
“Adam didn’t have to think about a thing inside the Garden. Things crashed, and forever after he had to do everything on purpose. Even trust. Even love.”
A methaphor for what happens in our own lives.
You’re alright Ame, it’s all natural for womem to feel that way you just happen to have the lady parts to own up to it.
I have known my share of widows and they make similar statements
I do love a good BB King reference
‘Adam didn’t have to think about a thing inside the Garden. Things crashed, and forever after he had to do everything on purpose. Even trust. Even love.’
The main thing to keep in mind is both were kicked out of paradise the minute they sinned and their relationship with God was severed. Relationships were easy before sin because there was nothing in the heart that blocked love…now there is. That was the paradise lost.
That’s why Jesus came to earth to suffer and die on the cross. It was to redeem humanity and reestablish that severed relationship with God and humanity.
RichardP – excellent.
Feels like a punch to the gut.
i totally relate to that!
We learn that love is a verb – a verb that requires blood sweat and tears to carry off.
we *hopefully* learn that love is a verb … that it costs me something – not that it should cost *you* something to love me (love me for how i am but i’ll only love you if you are and continue to be who i want you to be).
Folks we counted on prove to be imperfect, and prove to be something other than what we projected onto them to start with.
my first husband would get intensely angry when i wasn’t perfect – things like if i dropped and broke a jar of food, if i forgot something, wasn’t ‘male’ logical in my thinking. he despised these things about me, hated them.
I’d guess that you (in your head) did not marry ‘the man who actually was’ as your first husband. You married ‘the man you saw him to be’, surrounded by what you projected onto him.. I’m guessing that you married your current husband based more on who is actually is. Really seeing him for who he is (not who you want him to be).
yes. and since we were so young when we married … i think i married who i knew he could be and become based on what he desired for himself. he had lofty goals for himself, and i was glad to encourage him in those and help him get there – which i did (at the end of the marriage he told me he was angry about that – never did get why that angered him).
Choose to trust. Build a life. The future hasn’t happened yet. It’s ours to invent. (don’t remember the source of that) Don’t waste your time and your children’s time and your husband’s time longing for something to come back that was probably never there, except in your imagination. What you have now is real, not fantasy. It may not be all you wanted (who of us ever gets that). But it will be enough.
wisdom. and sometimes, admittedly, hard to do. it’s not like their dad is totally gone – he’s always with us. he’s their dad, and we talk about him all the time … things that come up that he loved or hated, things the girls do that are like him or remind them of him. it’s just normal kinda stuff.
for me the hard things are stuff like … my friends who got married at the same time i did are getting to celebrate those 30+ year anniversaries, they’re getting to share their first grandchildren together in an intact family … and memories from when my girls were born (celebrating their birthdays) and when they were little … their friends getting to do things with their dads at these young adult ages, and my girls will never get to do those things with theirs.
it’s learning how to continue to move forward with the past which is a part of who you are.
it’s realizing that somedays you’ve got this, and it’s easy … then a different day, something comes up, and it all falls apart, and you have to get back up, dust yourself off, and keep moving forward.
and, i think, realizing it’s not necessarily what *I* do that makes it enough, but it’s what i allow God to do with what little i have to offer that makes it enough. somedays i have more to offer than others, but regardless of how much or what i have, when given to Him, it’s enough.
As a metaphor for the themes presented in this thread, think of Adam and the Garden of Eden. It seems that he spent most of his life outside of the “paradise” he started out in. But by all appearances, he got on with his life in his new circumstances after everything crashed – and seemed to build something worthwhile for himself, Eve, and the kids. The Bible doesn’t say, but I think he didn’t spend too much time at the Gate to the Garden, looking through it and reminding himself of what he had lost. I believe I have not ever heard anyone preach on that, but it seems to be the “point” of the Garden story. Adam didn’t have to think about a thing inside the Garden. Things crashed, and forever after he had to do everything on purpose. Even trust. Even love.
i love this – i’ve never thought about it before, but i love it. i wonder if, while working the soil that seemed to work against him, if he ever stood up and looked toward the Garden and gave himself a moment of reflection. i can’t imagine him not, but perhaps that’s b/c i’m a woman 🙂
Taking a break from pre-schooling 🙂
“i think i married who i knew he could be and become based on what he desired for himself. he had lofty goals for himself, and i was glad to encourage him in those and help him get there”
I definitely married “who I knew he could be”…. I guess a lot of that could have been done on trust and faith, but I really did vet a lot of men very hard for character.
I think it’s legitimate RPG to also ask, in this era of social media and what not, if the rules of what makes for a successful relationship for Millennials have shifted at all?
I know that my expectations when dating women who are older than their 20’s (which I don’t do a lot because they come with their own set of problems) are different. But I am not sure if that was always universally the case.
Nobody is ever at their full potential when they are young. It’s reasonable to assume that they could be someone else, but it’s also dangerous to assume that they could be someone that they don’t want to be or are reluctant to work towards. All you can do is know what your long-term goals are and hope that you’ve got a partner that shares some of those.
And all we can control is our half. Unfortunately sometimes the other half doesn’t choose to make things work, as much as we might wish they would. 10 years post divorce I think both my ex and I wish we had made different choices then, but we didn’t. He’s remarried and seems happy. My partner and I now are far better matched, our relationship is much easier going, much more secure. I really do think some people are better/easier matches than others. And some are toxic.
Ame, it sounds like maybe you long for who you wish your ex could have been rather than who he actually was. To be honest, I am not sure being in what sounds like a very abusive situation, even if there were also good times, would have been better for you or the kids. But I get what you are feeling too. Being divorced sucks, even if the relationship was not good either. God has brought us both where we are now. I try to remember to stay in the present bc when I start going back to the past it’s usually not helpful. All we have is right now. Right now things are good!
Wow. Great conversation here.
As for my part, and everyone knows my story – I have stayed married. I do care about and love Mrs. deti, and I believe she cares about and loves me. Or at least it appears to be so, much more than when I first arrived here. But what kept me here in the beginning of this red pill journey, and what still keeps me here, are my kids, and the fact that my children need a father who lives with them, a father who controls and marshals the resources needed to care for them, and a man who can teach them about men at critical times in their lives.
I am convinced that if we had not had children, Mrs. deti would have left me before we made it 5 years. I am even more convinced that had we not had children, I would have left her about 15 years in.
My entire viewpoint on marriage has shifted and changed fundamentally. I’m much like Horseman in my outlook, in what he wrote quite a while ago here. I am at that point where the trust was broken. It can be, and is being, put back together. But it will never be what it was, regardless of how well things are repaired. I can trust. But it will never be 100%. It will never be “I trust you because you said it is so, and therefore it is so.” No, it will never be that ever again with Mrs. deti.
I also will not go to any length to save my marriage. If she cheats on me, even if it’s just an emotional affair – done. She goes back to the way it was, mistreating me and refusing sex – done. She even hints at going back to that – done. I don’t get what I want and need from this marriage – done. I am not going to live that way ever again.
I can say with firm rectitude that if this marriage ends for any reason, if we divorce or if I outlive her, I will never remarry. I don’t care how great she is, how sexy, or how kind she is to me. I don’t care what she wants or demands. I am never again getting entangled with a woman to the extent that I can’t leave the relationship in 30 seconds should I deem that necessary.
Ame, you’re in an unusual situation in that your first husband became your ex husband, and then he died after your divorce. So technically you are a remarried widow. that doesn’t mean I understand it all, or that your feelings are any less valid. What helps your focus, I would think, is that no matter how much you might have wanted to keep your first marriage intact, that’s simply not possible now. As for your statement that you would give up your happy second marriage to have preserved your first marriage, OK; but do not, DO NOT, let your current husband see that or know it. You will crush him.
All in all, I agree with everyone about how divorce is destructive. And it is. I’ve seen it. At one point I would have sacrificed my own self respect to keep mine together. I am no longer willing to do that, even if that means jeopardizing my kids’ family life. I will not live with a woman who disrespects me, treats me like shit, or cheats on me. NO. just NO.
Nobody is ever at their full potential when they are young. It’s reasonable to assume that they could be someone else, but it’s also dangerous to assume that they could be someone that they don’t want to be or are reluctant to work towards.
This. I read a quote somewhere along the lines of, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” I would take it a step farther and say, “When someone shows you what they are trying to be, give them the benefit of the doubt”
I am very biased here (very), but if I had taken my husband at face value, I would have kept looking. Underneath all the *stuff* (the ex’s and currents, the fighting, the partying) was a guy whose core of integrity and code of honor was sound. A guy who was actually seriously contemplating how he wanted to live his life and had resolved for certain that if he ever did marry, what kind of man he would and would not be.
None of that was visible at first, and truth be told, it was all the *other* stuff (along with the good looks) that drew me in. I could pull the Calvinism card here, but I won’t. I just got lucky.
But it is true that no one is at their full potential when they are young. It’s one of the reasons I roll my eyes at the expectation that blossoming men should be looking for ready made wives, LOL.
If she cheats on me, even if it’s just an emotional affair – done. She goes back to the way it was, mistreating me and refusing sex – done. She even hints at going back to that – done. I don’t get what I want and need from this marriage – done. I am not going to live that way ever again.
…….
Gospel
As for your statement that you would give up your happy second marriage to have preserved your first marriage, OK; but do not, DO NOT, let your current husband see that or know it. You will crush him.
Deti – this is and has been a ‘known’ since the beginning, and it’s the same for him. we’ve both been thru painful divorces with kids. how could we love each other and not want to take away that pain from one another and our kids?
we cannot separate ourselves from our pasts. they are a part of us, a part of who we are and why we are what we are.
when i chose to remarry, i chose to accept his ex, his kids, his past, and the consequences of all that; same with him. we are both casualties of failed marriages, of tough things in life. we’ve both chosen to more forward, but we’ll always have the scars and permanent damage from those battles. we either accept it or not. we choose to accept it.
we can’t have more of each other than we have to offer. life, and the years, have added and taken away from who we are – and not in a balanced way. life is not fair, just, or equal. we either accept that or not; we choose to accept it. we choose to make the best of what we have. and we choose to see what we have as it is. we either move forward or become stagnant; we choose to move forward.
But I get what you are feeling too. Being divorced sucks, even if the relationship was not good either. God has brought us both where we are now. I try to remember to stay in the present bc when I start going back to the past it’s usually not helpful. All we have is right now. Right now things are good!
when my ex left, the new Rule was: Truth would be accepted and spoken. i had grown up with so many lies, and my first husband lied to me all the time. i was tired of the lies. i may have overdone that some, but we are honest here in our home. i want the truth – from my girls, from my husband. that makes some things hard, but i’d rather have that kind of hard than the environment of lies i grew up with and lived in for so many years.
i agree, Bloom – live in the present and move forward 🙂 . we cannot live in the present without accepting the past. my girls and i have spent four very long and very hard years grieving and healing from their dad and all he did. the beautiful part of all that is we were able to pull out old pictures at christmas time and enjoy them without anyone having a meltdown – huge. HUGE! and truly a blessing from God.
what i try to do is share the truth, the reality of how it is. there’s so much untruth out there, so much distorted truth, that it’s easy to see why someone would think the grass is greener somewhere else. and i don’t want people to look at where i am and flippantly think that they can do what they want and it will all work out in the end. i don’t have much to give sometimes, but i do have my story and the life lessons i’ve learned along the way. if i can help someone else see the truth, then good has come from it all.
marriage is hard because relationships are hard and people are complex. and while we can’t control everything, there are things we can do to make life better and more enjoyable if we’re willing.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/yo-yo-relationships/
While not married relationships are not hard. Or are onky difficult when there is a battle for control. I lead, they follow or move out, life is good.
Life is good once a man understands women are the most easily replaced commodity around
I agree with Ton that not all relationships are hard. Marriage is a relationship.
I have learned to accept that most people see it that way but my husband always objects when someone says that in his presence. “No. Marriage is not hard for everybody so don’t expect me to just agree with that like its a universal truth.*
This has been interesting reading so far…but a little puzzling at times. Seems that a lot of energy and time is given to thinking about ex’s what was, could have been and is situations. I understand why someone may reflect briefly on a relationship that failed, but why would anyone want to resurrect a destroyed and betrayed relationship with the ex who blew it up? That part is way beyond my understanding.
@ Larry g yes it’s complex to pack up and put away those emotions. I think even more so when you are the party who didn’t end it or maybe even see it coming. It can make you question reality, if anything is true or can be trusted. Whenever possible I think it is better to make things work, but sometimes it doesn’t and when you would do anything yourself to mend it but the other side refuses it’s very hard to understand. But I absolutely agree it’s essential to eventually process all that so one can heal and move on. Maybe never the same but hopefully wiser and in a positive way. (Vs not or self destructing, which unfortunately can happen too.)
I don’t know Ame’s whole story but from what I gather it came out of the blue, and maybe a double life kind of thing even. In that case it’s like everything you thought was true wasn’t and that’s a lot more to work thru than a case of long and open struggle that then ends.
Different example but similar, I have a friend who always thought her dad was the greatest guy. Pillar of the community. Loved by all. Upon his death it came out he had been a pedophille w several cousins and others who came forward. My friend at first didn’t believe it, until too many like stories from unrelated sources came out. It was really hard for her to be simultaneously grieving the dad she knew and then somehow processing that he was also someone she never knew. Years later she struggles w it, as well as she doesn’t really feel it’s something one can be openly discussing w most people so she has limited support. And she also feels shame over who he was and what he did. Such curve balls are a lot to unpack and process.
RPG, you perspective is interesting; especially the part about questioning reality and trusting (or not). From what I have read so far, it does seem that some individuals have went much more than the extra mile to accommodate an ex; obviously there must be reasons to do so for them. My position was very different and right for me in that I went a “full scorched earth” route with the ex many years ago.
Whatever works for an individual I suppose…
🙂
Perhaps a better way to say it is that they’re active, not passive. They don’t just happen. Sometimes that’s easier than others.
Larry – we share children together whom I’ve encouraged to love their dad simply because he’s their dad. I never have, nor will I ever, take him from their lives even though he’s passed. he’s a part of who they are. it’s not like we live in the past; we live in the now and move toward the future. but it’s good and healthy for them to be able to talk about their daddy whenever they want to. little personality things that come up, things that link them to him, things he would have reacted to one way or another, all a part of who they are – it’s important, imo, to keep him in their lives.
I believe we are all born hardwired to need our own mom and dad. I never want to take that away from my girls – to do so would be cruel, imo.
and why do I write about it out here? to dispel the myths and lies. yes, my husband and I have a wonderful marriage, and he’s awesome with my girls. perfect? no. great? yes. but I don’t want it to be misunderstood. having a good marriage now does not mean the past is erased, it does not mean we do not still have to deal with the pain and/or the consequences of divorce. those continue. yes, we can work through it so that it doesn’t have control over us anymore (and we have), but it still exists.
I never want to give women the impression that divorce and remarriage are a panacea for all their troubles … that if they can just find the ‘right man’ everything will be better … that the fairies will come out with the rainbows and sunshine. it’s not like a car you can just trade in for a newer one and forget the old one, especially if you have children together. you cannot trade your childrens’ dad in for a different one because you don’t like the one they have.
I want to dispel the myth of, “You deserve this, Girl, and your children deserve a better father! Dump that rotten excuse of a husband and get you a good man because you deserve better!” because what few honestly tell you is that it’s not that simple. you cannot take a child’s father away from them and have it not affect them. and you cannot go out and pick another man to be their replace their father. and perfect doesn’t exist … and all her crap carries forward – she must own her own stuff or she’ll keep thinking it’s all the man’s fault life doesn’t work for her.
@ Ame, I think that is wise. When my dad passed away (I was 2, my brother 4) my mom made it a total taboo topic. She never processed her grief or loss (they were happy, high school sweethearts) and so we were not able to express or process out grief or loss either. Not good to bottle that stuff up, trust me! It’s going to pop out somehow, and usually not in good ways if repressed.
Bloom, i’m sorry 😦 … I can’t imagine how hard that has been for you.
I told my girls from the beginning that they would grieve now because if they didn’t, exactly like you said, it would come up later.
I was truly shocked at how hard it was on me when he died. about a year later, after i’d been helping my girls deal with the intensity of that first year, it hit me around our anniversary, which was close to his date of death, and oh my, I was knocked off my feet for a good long time. grieving is necessary, but it really sucks.
however, when endured, the peace it brings is worth it. we pulled out pics of their dad and me from the beginning on, and my girls thoroughly enjoyed seeing Mom and Dad when we were young – not much older than they! it was fun. it didn’t make them sad or despondent or depressed – it was just fun. helped me see that these years were worth it 🙂
“I never want to give women the impression that divorce and remarriage are a panacea for all their troubles … that if they can just find the ‘right man’ everything will be better … that the fairies will come out with the rainbows and sunshine. it’s not like a car you can just trade in for a newer one and forget the old one, especially if you have children together. you cannot trade your childrens’ dad in for a different one because you don’t like the one they have.”
You do a really good job of this! I’ve seen you over a few years now, too, cataloging almost every thing you say (because I have a somewhat photographic memory lol).
Not to you know… sound stalkerish or anything 😉 😀
But you do a great job of that, Ame, it’s very nice to see someone brave enough to do it, too.
🙂
thank you, Stephanie.
this is something very important to me, and I struggle to balance what I share publicly. it’s easy to look at my life now, not having been around during the dark years, and flippantly say, “See! It all worked out in the end! Everything’s okay! You got the better end of all that!”
it’s easy to look at my life now and think one can do what they want, ask God for forgiveness, and it will all be roses and sunshine in a few months or years.
it’s easy to look at my life now and think my advice to women to stay married is unfair because if I have something good, why shouldn’t I want the same for another woman?
how does one tell the truth in such a way another actually *hears* it? how do i tell the truth that, yes, i love my husband and we have a wonderful marriage – but it’s not without the threads of pain and hurt that were woven many years ago in a different life? it’s like asking a man who has experienced war not to react in certain ways in certain situations. it’s there. it’s a part of us. and it’s never going away. idk. when I hear a woman say, “I should have listened to you,” it’s too late.
it was interesting the other day. my step son stopped by, and we were all having a conversation in the family room during which he started to give his dad advice. his dad wisely listened. I kept my mouth shut (yes, I am capable of doing so 😉 ). later, on another day, I explained to him why what he was suggesting wouldn’t work. as much as he could, he understood. but I saw myself and all of us in our youth or inexperience in him … so full of life and ideas and ideals. it was a refreshing jolt to my sometimes jaded perspective on life born out of harsh experience.
can God restore the years the locusts have eaten? sure. but I have yet to see Him totally erase them as if they never were.
– – –
on the lighter side of life . . .
my husband came into the kitchen while my daughter and I were making dinner tonight. he started bantering with me as we often do – fun and funny and makes me laugh. when he’d had enough of my mouth he started kissing me in front of her saying, “You shouldn’t talk with your mouth full!” of course she started squealing, “EWWW!” and he walked away saying, “I’ve still got it!” leaving us giggling.
that’s the environment we have now – fun, light-hearted, full of love and life and freedom to be ourselves without fear of being scourged and demeaned. it truly is wonderful 🙂 … all 3 of our kids roll their eyes while also looking hopeful – they all 3 know what it’s like to live in a home where their other parent hated us. they find a lot of security here.
“my husband came into the kitchen while my daughter and I were making dinner tonight. he started bantering with me as we often do – fun and funny and makes me laugh. when he’d had enough of my mouth he started kissing me in front of her saying, “You shouldn’t talk with your mouth full!” of course she started squealing, “EWWW!” and he walked away saying, “I’ve still got it!” leaving us giggling.”
❤ !!!
That's so sweet, makes me smile. Patrick is like that, too lol… and constantly spanks me.
I oscillate between super annoyed with him and wanting to sex him every other minute. It's insane!
Insane and fun!!!
I agree with most except for tge focusing on the bad part… Out of past experience, its been more like, I ignore the bad because I like a person rather than focus on the bad and overtime itll build up till my friends point it out and i decide to leave… 😅
I agree 👏