While in the car with the kids and Dancer’s youngest we were listening to the radio. It was set to a channel with today’s top music.
The lyrics of one song struck me. It basically was about relationships, advising to “Just go with it,” and “To see where it goes.”
This is popular relationship advice aimed at young women today, but for the most part it’s really bad advice. Just like hookup culture, casual sex, and no strings attached are bad advice.
Women who get involved in undefined or poorly defined sexual relationships hoping they will “maybe” go somewhere or turn into something are setting themselves up for repeated and needless pain.
It opened the door to a teachable moment about valuing oneself. About a really good talk about how girls they knew or saw taking this route were not having success but rather multiple failures.
I encouraged the girls to take the path less travelled. While other girls are dating young and getting all wrapped up in boys, they could instead invest all that energy in themselves, in learning life skills, in preparing themselves for their future forever guy and for a happy, stable life.
Multiple rejections, heartbreaks, and bad experiences do the opposite. One only needs to look around in real life to see many examples of that. Painting it as “normal” teenage rights of passage has lead to a lot of destruction. As has the common, “just go with it” advice.
I hope a seed was planted. I wish someone had told me these things at their age.
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
I understand what you’re saying, Stephanie. 🙂
“There’s a big difference between that and a sexually experienced man dating a virgin, knowing that she wants to save herself for marriage, and pressuring her and pressuring her. He needs to find a girl more compatible with him, not try to “change” a girl who has already stated her intentions to wait until marriage.”
Eh… I think we’re missing each other’s points here.
If she’s really serious, then she won’t give in to pressure.
And no man who is only looking for sex is going to stay with a virgin who denies him very long.
So it shouldn’t be a problem right?
http://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-05/20/11/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-02/sub-buzz-6964-1495294861-11.jpg?crop=849:621;747,444&downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto
Sue – The most simple way to explain this is that sex is the product that women (mostly) have and men are (normally) the buyers.
The point is not that men are buying the sex. The point is that women are using it to obtain status / money / resources, etc.
When you say “it takes two to tango”, it doesn’t really argue the point at all. The point here is that it’s bad advice for women who are looking for something more than just sex. It’s not the men that are posting their bad experiences to #MeToo. It’s almost entirely women. The standard now is to shame men for taking advantage of the women who practically give it away, rather than shaming the women for making dumb decisions and giving one another bad advice.
Stephanie, you’re right, usually it shouldn’t be a problem. It doesn’t make him a good person if he does continue to pressure a girl who wants to wait. He should stop dating her, sooner rather than later.
LOL Trump really likes giving the thumbs up.
I wonder if they’ve ever caught him giving a thumbs down 😀
http://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSg4EkH4fTok7h3CNj8gCBleNO45f__Ln7NgrjoOef1Bwlhg9br
“There’s a big difference between that and a sexually experienced man dating a virgin, knowing that she wants to save herself for marriage, and pressuring her and pressuring her. He needs to find a girl more compatible with him, not try to “change” a girl who has already stated her intentions to wait until marriage.
I don’t fault a man for stop dating a virginal girl if he wants to have a premarital relationship and he knows she isn’t interested in that. He should stop dating her, the sooner the better. To stick around with the intention of working on her until she gives in? That’s not right.”
————-
Are you oblivious to the fact that more young women are having more pointless sex at younger ages than young men do?
What percentage of women at marrying age do you really think are virgins anymore? Nearly every woman that I was having sex with in my teens had already been around the block a few times before I had got into the game. That’s for certain.
Even so, you’re projecting victim mentality for women once again. “He should stop dating her”. “… Experienced man dating a virgin”…. “Pressuring her”….
Sorry, Sue. but you are clearly oblivious to what is really going on.
“Stephanie, you’re right, usually it shouldn’t be a problem. It doesn’t make him a good person if he does continue to pressure a girl who wants to wait. He should stop dating her, sooner rather than later.”
… Like two ships passing in the night they would be.
Different destinations headed they are.
http://i2.wp.com/breetbort.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/thumbstr-1.jpg?fit=840%2C473&ssl=1
lol… he apparently does do the thumbs down.
Thumbs up to you too, Stephanie! 🙂
A Dad:
“Are you oblivious to the fact that more young women are having more pointless sex at younger ages than young men do?”
I’m not talking about those women, obviously.
“What percentage of women at marrying age do you really think are virgins anymore?”
Well, women from churches like mine are more likely to be virgins, wouldn’t they?
My point I guess is that women like that (and men from these same churches) shouldn’t be dating people from outside of the church. It’s foolishness. The men within the church have surging hormones just like everyone else, but they’d be much more likely to pressure the women into marriage, knowing that premarital sex is not on the table. (Likewise, the women would not be pressuring the men into premarital sex either. I mentioned earlier how Christian men like Tim Tebow are mocked for trying to save themselves for marriage.)
Der der der. I’m done.
We aren’t talking about your virgin church. We are talking about the rest of the women out there.
Stephanie:
“Different destinations headed they are.”
Very true!
Head is spinning.
We aren’t talking about your virgin church. We are talking about the rest of the women out there.”
Why would you think that I was talking about non-virginal women when I’m talking about virginal women who intend to save themselves for marriage? I was quite specific about who I was talking about.
Sue…
Your scenerio of a man pressuring a virgin who is saving herself is fairly rare…it’s not like it’s never happened, but it isn’t the norm.
The norm is a lot of women are having casual sex and giving it up so easily that men often don’t even have to pressure them. In the case I was talking about I never pressured her once…she said it and I knew what she wanted. And then after the predictable result of casual sex and what it does to the woman’s emotions like the Aziz scenerio…she blames the man for her choices. That’s the scenerio that needs to get rectified. Virgins who aren’t easy and saving themselves don’t need a physician…the women who give it up easily to men they barely know do.
earl: “Your scenerio of a man pressuring a virgin who is saving herself is fairly rare…it’s not like it’s never happened, but it isn’t the norm.”
I agree. And in no small part, it’s because virgins are no longer the norm. I know of more examples of this happening because of the church I belong to. (Often the church person will either get dumped after they refuse, or dump the person doing the pressuring. Which is as it should be.)
“The norm is a lot of women are having casual sex and giving it up so easily that men often don’t even have to pressure them.”
I understand.
“In the case I was talking about I never pressured her once…she said it and I knew what she wanted. And then after the predictable result of casual sex and what it does to the woman’s emotions like the Aziz scenerio…she blames the man for her choices.”
I can see this happening and I agree, she has no one to blame but herself.
“Your scenerio of a man pressuring a virgin who is saving herself is fairly rare…it’s not like it’s never happened, but it isn’t the norm.
The norm is a lot of women are having casual sex and giving it up so easily that men often don’t even have to pressure them. In the case I was talking about I never pressured her once…she said it and I knew what she wanted. And then after the predictable result of casual sex and what it does to the woman’s emotions like the Aziz scenerio…she blames the man for her choices. That’s the scenerio that needs to get rectified. Virgins who aren’t easy and saving themselves don’t need a physician…the women who give it up easily to men they barely know do.”
———————-
Men pressuring women is only pressuring if she doesn’t like the guy. Studies are showing up that women today are having sex before men, and more sexual partners.
Women were practically pressuring me for sex when I was late teens / early twenties, right out of high school when I got out on my own. They knew exactly what they were doing because they had already established fairly active sex lives even before I had. Sex was everywhere.
Sue,
What you have experienced in life is so different from what the rest of the commentators have experienced; that you are really talking about 2 entirely different things. Even though the topic and the words are the same.
goFigure, that is becoming abundantly clear! 🙂
Sue is a well established feminist ( with a magical church) and of course Earl backs her play
Figures
I mentioned C.S. Lewis and Hell the other day. Turns out Hell is not just other people, as Sartre articulated in “Huis Clos”. Hell is also social media. I think I will have wine with lunch.
“We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”
–C.S. Lewis
years ago i heard an analogy of the difference btw hell and heaven – in hell all the people had elbows that didn’t bend, so they couldn’t feed themselves or take care of their needs, so everyone went around hungry and unclothed and needy (only concerned about their own selves). in heaven, people also had elbows that didn’t bend, but the people in heaven helped feed and care for each other.
when we see this acted out on earth, then we see hell on earth. when one marriage partner is all self-absorbed and focused on only themselves, then we have hell in marriage.
– – – – –
i’ve only read bits and pieces of some of these comments, but i think it was Deti that wrote up there that women only care about themselves, and this is generally true. i think i’m a very giving person and really work at thinking about and caring about others, including my Husband. but i have caught myself thinking more of me than him at times, and i have to admit it’s been a real shock 😉 🙂 . thanks to all the teaching out here, i’m able to see it clearly and quickly and make adjustments. i don’t think he’s like that, though. i think he’s always thinking about how to care for the whole family and not just himself (which is something i do not take for granted b/c my first husband was very narcissistic). my Husband blows me away all the time at how much he cares for us and thinks about how to care for us. he’s much less selfish than i am, and i am a very unselfish person (not just my opinion but that of my Husband and children and friends).
– – – – –
and all those women who force their men to always push for sex? stupid, stupid women! they’re missing out and making their husbands pay for their stupidity and selfishness. i’m so addicted to my husband it seems our whole lives revolve around sex 😉
I’m really trying to keep up… But I’m confused. To summarize:
1. Women should stop having casual
Sex
2. Women should hold out for marriage – but only until their mid 20s
3. Men should not get married to any woman who has had sex before and is over the age of 25
So where does that leave the majority of the population? Sexless and alone.
How does this end well for anyone?
LOL. Love found a hole in the whole thing.
But, I think that the point that you are going to get from some here is that both men and women should wait for marriage. You are going to get conflicting opinions from everyone though.
It’s a complicated subject though. Some people think that promiscuity leads to other problems. Some people think that the problems lead to promiscuity. I don’t personally think that most well adjusted people don’t behave in exceptionally risky ways though, but some would disagree.
Probably best to let the ladies answer this one though. Most men are probably going to tell you that the easy women are disposable and the chaste women are more likely to be marriage material. Some guys here are going to say that men should never marry though. Some ladies might say to only wait for marriage.
“Sue is a well established feminist ( with a magical church) and of course Earl backs her play
Figures”
————–
Two of these things are not compatible…
1, Abrahamic religions.
2. Feminism.
3. Air.
Which one doesn’t belong?
Trick question. Feminism doesn’t belong with any of the above.
“and all those women who force their men to always push for sex? stupid, stupid women! they’re missing out and making their husbands pay for their stupidity and selfishness. i’m so addicted to my husband it seems our whole lives revolve around sex 😉”
———————-
Clearly I married wrong.
‘So where does that leave the majority of the population? Sexless and alone.
How does this end well for anyone?’
Was the majority of the population sexless and alone before widespread casual sex was accepted?
If it was we wouldn’t be here today.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/01/18/must-all-teen-girls-become-sluts/
”
Was the majority of the population sexless and alone before widespread casual sex was accepted?
If it was we wouldn’t be here today.”
———————–
Maybe a valid point, actually.
Love: LOL! You summarized it well!
Earl: “Was the majority of the population sexless and alone before widespread casual sex was accepted?
If it was we wouldn’t be here today.”
Very true. Expectations were different on both sides back then.
Sue has ended up saying many things in this thread because of responding to those who took issue with what she said.
But here is her initial point: “I don’t think it’s right for a man to believe that it’s harming her but still encourage it for his own pleasure.”
And here is James 4:17: “If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.” In this case, the good they ought to do is not have casual sex with women if they believe that casual sex damages them. Sue’s initial point is simply a restatement of James 4:17.
And then there is the law: Says the drug pusher to the innocent child – “Here, take this. It will be good for you.” BV and deti are claiming that it is all on the child. They shouldn’t have taken the drug from the pusher. The pusher has done nothing wrong. The law says otherwise – because that is the kind of society we have chosen to build.
There is no difference between the drug-pusher analogy and what Sue said initially. And Sue’s point is backed up by what I quoted from the James 4:17.
Sue was not initially addressing any of the other points the got raised in response to her statement (and neither am I in this post). She was stating an obvious truth: In the context of a society that claims to live by a certain set of standards – someone who claims that they know their behavior is damaging to others, but they do it anyway, is displaying a moral deficiency. That is a logic statement.
Saying that boys will be boys may be a truth. But it is not anywhere close to addressing Sue’s initial point – which was, those who know to do good, and don’t do it are morally deficient – according to a certain set of standards that Sue (and others) adheres to. I would be surprised if anyone in the comments above did not agree with that proposition. Which makes everything after Sue’s initial comments so baffling to me.
Ships passing in the night indeed.
There’s also plenty of stats and charts which keeps showing the farther we go in time with the casual sex norm…the longer people wait to get married. There’s also the trend of more women becoming spinsters. Things like no-fault and the pill go back to wanting casual sex with many partners. So the fears of taking casual sex away will lead to a multitude of sexless and alone people is an irrational fear.
It’ll sound like a paradox but I’d say casual sex culture is the reason why more people are becoming sexless and alone.
RichardP – Congratulations on comparing a woman’s ability to use logic and reason to that of a child. The whole point of the argument is to teach women to be more responsible, instead of treating them like children who can’t help themselves because they are children. You’ve just won at infantilizing women.
Not sure why people can’t seem to see this. They either seem to be on one side of the fence where women can actually make decisions, or the other side of the fence where women are either dumb or defenseless and need protection.
Hi everybody, I am again behind on following comments. I am having a pet health crisis, my two youngest dogs got parvo, and so am managing that. I am so kicking myself for putting off the vaccines bc I was busy otherwise, shoot! At first they recommended admitting the dogs for 24 hour care, but at $1500 a day x 2-3 days per dog I could just not do that. So now I have learned how to inject IV fluid subcutaneously and other new skills. I am happy to report the one who got sick first has really bounced back, hopefully the one who got sick this morning will be past the worst of it by tomorrow. Please keep them in your thoughts!
“There’s also plenty of stats and charts which keeps showing the farther we go in time with the casual sex norm…the longer people wait to get married. There’s also the trend of more women becoming spinsters. Things like no-fault and the pill go back to wanting casual sex with many partners. So the fears of taking casual sex away will lead to a multitude of sexless and alone people is an irrational fear.
It’ll sound like a paradox but I’d say casual sex culture is the reason why more people are becoming sexless and alone.”
——————-
Casual sex goes up and down depending up the era. Stats say that millennials as a group are having less sex than the previous generations. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.
If #MeToo is having any added impact, women might very well be pushing themselves out of the market entirely. I honestly think that we saw a similar phenomenon in the ’20s, pre- WWI.
‘If #MeToo is having any added impact, women might very well be pushing themselves out of the market entirely. ‘
If they keep up the idea they are strong and empowered when it comes to their rights…but then are weak and infantile when it comes to their responsibilities…they will.
RPG – So sorry to hear that. I’ve got some animals here and would hate to see them suffer. Wish you and the dogs the best. Glad to hear that one is doing better and hope that the other does as well.
“If they keep up the idea they are strong and empowered when it comes to their rights…but then are weak and infantile when it comes to their responsibilities…they will.”
———————–
Exactly. That’s all I’m trying to say here.
I am thankful the vet was willing to teach me how to do the home care, it’s about $200 per dog vs. $3-5k per. Necessity is the mother of invention!
Reality infantiles women.
Successful socties do not treat women as moral agents
Thanks @ a dad, from what I understand it’s all about hydration bc w parvo they can’t keep anything down and then get dehydrated and weak and then the kidneys start shutting down and that’s what does them in. So w the subcutaneous fluids the hydration gets in and stays in and then they weather the storm. That’s the plan!
Richard:
“And here is James 4:17: “If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.” In this case, the good they ought to do is not have casual sex with women if they believe that casual sex damages them. Sue’s initial point is simply a restatement of James 4:17.”
You’re right, it is.
I said those things and I still believe them. I believe that if someone encourages someone else to do something that they believe is harmful, then that is not right. “They can take care of themselves” as a justification is simply selfish. If one truly believes it is harmful.
Most people these days have been brainwashed into thinking that it isn’t harmful. I can’t blame them for encouraging something that they don’t think is wrong.
“There is no difference between the drug-pusher analogy and what Sue said initially. And Sue’s point is backed up by what I quoted from the James 4:17.”
Another analogy might also be encouraging someone who has vowed to never drink alcohol to start drinking. If you don’t think drinking is wrong, go ahead and drink, but if they think it’s wrong and you push them and encourage them? Something is wrong with that.
Stephanie explained that (I believe) that many people get “caught up in the moment” and push things along because hormones are powerful. The person who wants to remain chaste needs to cut that relationship short if they continue to get pressure. But when a couple is caught up in the moment, I don’t think that is the same moral failing as what might be called “seducing” someone who is initially reluctant. Or if someone is so convinced that it is harmful to the other person, but allows it for their own pleasure, how do they reconcile that? It’s a good question. I won’t hold my breath that most people will admit that it is a moral failing, though.
I have heard people justify sleeping with married people by saying, “I didn’t make the marriage vow, it was the other person’s choice to cheat, not mine!” That’s another variation on, “They made the choice; they can take care of themselves.” But it’s still wrong to get embroiled in that and it’s hurting people.
It’s also interesting that nobody (that I’m aware of) will admit whether or not they think it’s okay for men to engage in casual sex, or rather, that if a couple engages in casual sex, that only she is doing something “wrong” or “sinful” (in a moral or Christian context), or are both of them sinning?
In our church, a man who thought that he was exempt from being judged for casual sex, and would engage in it if given the opportunity would be judged just as harshly as a woman who felt the same. I don’t get the feeling that this is a universally held position, though, even among those who condemn casual sex for women.
Yet another reason why conservative women should only date men who share her beliefs and be willing to live by them, not just expect her to.
My two other dogs are both old ladies and have lots of age-related health issues themselves, so it’s really turned into a veterinary ward around here
“I am thankful the vet was willing to teach me how to do the home care, it’s about $200 per dog vs. $3-5k per. Necessity is the mother of invention!”
——————–
I think that a good doctor would rather teach you how to do something to save their lives rather than make them suffer or have you foot a bill that’s too much for most people to handle.
“I’m really trying to keep up… But I’m confused. To summarize:
1. Women should stop having casual
Sex
2. Women should hold out for marriage – but only until their mid 20s
3. Men should not get married to any woman who has had sex before and is over the age of 25
So where does that leave the majority of the population? Sexless and alone.
How does this end well for anyone?”
^^Love, I think the manosphere complicates things partly because there are so many different backgrounds who congregate here to talk about red pill ideas.
There’s the Christians, there’s the Atheists, there’s the in-between men and women who believe Christianity has a lot of good ideas for families and how to run civilizations (some of those are also Atheists)… there’s lifetime bachelor players like Boxer, and wild men like Ton… the group of MGTOW like Farm Boy, Spawny, & Fuzzie, then there’s sophisticated men like BV who is from another world from us and hard to imagine… and men who could write books (but refuse to for some reason) on these topics like Deti and Dalrock and Rollo (who does write books), and tons and tons of commenters at other places.
If you’re not Christian then the whole marry as a virgin thing probably doesn’t make sense. It would take so long to explain, but maybe someone could post some articles about it from that perspective if you’re interested in Christianity. Even secular studies seem to show that it improves a marriage’s longevity though… and that with each partner a woman has, it seems to increase her risk of divorcing.
But BV and Ton both married virgin church girls… so it’s not like any of us are saying that it’s a perfect deal.
Basically you have to look at your age (assuming you’re single 🙂 ) and really think about what you want in life (family? children? an intense career?) and then work to make those things happen as hard as you can.
And it’s a given around here that if you want the family + children, then the intense career isn’t going to happen, or it’s going to happen but with lots of stress and heartache trying to perfect at everything.
And it’s a given around here that if you want the family + children, then the intense career isn’t going to happen, or it’s going to happen but with lots of stress and heartache trying to perfect at everything.
Oh wow it came through twice that time. Go figure!
Incoming healthy dog thoughts …
On women and responsibility: No judgement. Just about every woman I have ever been with, no matter how easy or difficult it was to bring her to bed, seemed to go into a stage of simply shutting off her brain. This lead to all sorts of moments with me saying things like, “Wait one damn minute! First it’s birth control time!” plus other awkward and last minute adjustments on my part. This is not a certain type of girl; it covers bimbos to lawyers and I’ve never dated drunk or someone who was drunk. For reasons like the one above I like to have my wits about me.
Like I said, no judgement. I think this behavior is in our DNA. The costs are potentially so high for the woman that I suspect there is a circuit breaker that flips and judgement is severely restricted. If that breaker didn’t flip, sex would be too scary all the time. I’ve seen this dating but I’ve also seen a milder form of it in relationship settings too.
The worrisome thing is that it sounds like that circuit breaker moment is moving up in time, literally to early on the first date. I probably missed out on a good deal of casual sex because I’ve always insisted on checking a gal out on a few different occasions before getting serious. I’ve always been cautious about their character (not that this helped much) and verifying my own interest, but that comes from growing up in a counter culture theme park where everything outside my immediate family was chaos.
On the subject of male / female relationships. I met this rather interesting and extremely attractive woman this week. Strictly business. Seems to be about early to mid thirties. She made it a point to tell me that she is single and has no children. Essentially married to her job. I thought that it was a very unusual comment for a client to make, but I don’t interact with many women in my line of work.
I’m sure that she could have absolutely no problem in landing a decent guy of her choosing. Not that I’m saying that all women need to marry and should have children, but I just thought that it’s not something that most women just lay out there in the open in a business meeting. I could tell that some of the guys that she works with were smitten by her.
Without going into too many details, I felt there were some other pretty strong messages in the interaction, but I just stuck to strict professionalism. She works in an office environment that’s filled with mostly women and older / short overweight dudes, and works a lot. Probably weird to interact with a a tall / slender / strong guy. Admittedly, her office is like the polar opposite of mine even though we share some overlap in our work. Very few ladies where I work. Very few men where she works. Sorta got me thinking about the comments that people used to meet in work environments but now that seems to have been squashed by things like #MeToo. So if there was ever something there, we’ll never know.
The Ansari case cannot be judged as typical because he’s a celebrity and she was worse that a fan, she was a want-to-be something that felt she needed his attention. That’s a complicated mixture. She went from being a supplicant to getting what seemed for the moment to be “everything she wanted” when it probably wasn’t clear to her truly what she really did want.
Because she likely didn’t know, she was almost certainly guaranteed not to get it. I’ve seen this over and over, the citizen finally gets a momentary access to the idolized celebrity, they know that they should be getting something, simple attention, an opportunity to pitch and idea, a chance to connect in some special way. This is true even with just a hand shake.
But the God-like-one turns out to just be a distracted dude. Possibly simply going through the motions because he’s playing the part of the in-demand celebrity. Everybody walks away unfulfilled. There were days I saw this play out 20 times an afternoon … and no one ever even got to have sex.
Confusion is not a crime. It’s just confusion.
“^^Love, I think the manosphere complicates things partly because there are so many different backgrounds who congregate here to talk about red pill ideas.
There’s the Christians, there’s the Atheists, there’s the in-between men and women who believe Christianity has a lot of good ideas for families and how to run civilizations (some of those are also Atheists)… there’s lifetime bachelor players like Boxer, and wild men like Ton… the group of MGTOW like Farm Boy, Spawny, & Fuzzie, then there’s sophisticated men like BV who is from another world from us and hard to imagine… and men who could write books (but refuse to for some reason) on these topics like Deti and Dalrock and Rollo (who does write books), and tons and tons of commenters at other places.
If you’re not Christian then the whole marry as a virgin thing probably doesn’t make sense. It would take so long to explain, but maybe someone could post some articles about it from that perspective if you’re interested in Christianity. Even secular studies seem to show that it improves a marriage’s longevity though… and that with each partner a woman has, it seems to increase her risk of divorcing.
But BV and Ton both married virgin church girls… so it’s not like any of us are saying that it’s a perfect deal.
Basically you have to look at your age (assuming you’re single 🙂 ) and really think about what you want in life (family? children? an intense career?) and then work to make those things happen as hard as you can.”
———————–
Really good post, Stephanie. I’ve mentioned before that I’m not a Christian but I do come from a Christian family and do believe in many “Christian values”. Probably more so than most self-proclaimed Christians. I don’t think that Christianity really protects people from amoral behavior, but rather is there often for people who need it the most.
Nice points Alan.
“I’ve mentioned before that I’m not a Christian but I do come from a Christian family and do believe in many “Christian values”. Probably more so than most self-proclaimed Christians. I don’t think that Christianity really protects people from amoral behavior, but rather is there often for people who need it the most.”
Yes I remember you believe the values are good for families and society. Are you going MGTOW though, or still figuring things out?
Something your sweet son might be interested in are these AWESOME, hilarious, crazy books called Captain Underpants. My 7 yr old and I die laughing reading them… they are just SO boy. I think you can order them on Amazon for not too much… your son may really enjoy reading them!
http://www.ebay.com/i/190866034209?chn=ps
Or just check out the first one (only $3.95) and see if y’all like it 🙂
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOOK-HC-Captain-Underpants-First-Epic-Novel-Collectors-Edition-NO-CD/202153144298?hash=item2f11442fea:g:MIUAAOSwbsBXl3j~
He’s also reading Vampires Don’t Wear Polkadots –
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vampires-Dont-Wear-Polka-Dots-The-Adventures-Of-The-Bailey-School-Kids/142126671112?epid=188333&hash=item211768e508:g:rtgAAOSwLnBX5R8S
It’s from a series of books by different authors but all with the same little group of kids who have really weird teachers. They’re full of mischief and boys acting like boys (so refreshing!).
Let me know if the links aren’t working and I can try to send something else.
You can even buy the Bailey School Kids’ in sets for pretty cheap. And they’re ALL hilarious… which I love for boys. It seems to make reading easier if they can really relate and get into the stories.
Here’s someone selling 10 for just $8.99 !!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-10-The-Adventures-of-the-Bailey-School-Kids-Chapter-Books-Set-Lot-PB-Look/222797438442?hash=item33dfc31dea:g:RfAAAOSwXsFaXOHG
“Yes I remember you believe the values are good for families and society. Are you going MGTOW though, or still figuring things out?
Something your sweet son might be interested in are these AWESOME, hilarious, crazy books called Captain Underpants. My 7 yr old and I die laughing reading them… they are just SO boy. I think you can order them on Amazon for not too much… your son may really enjoy reading them!”
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My kid is about the same age as yours. I thought that perhaps yours was younger. Mine also loves those books. Has several of them. He’s quite the funny dude and has a great sense of humor, but much is typical boy humor as one would expect and it’s a lot of fun sometimes. I think that he enjoys that he can be himself when he’s here, unlike school or at his mom’s where there rules are a bit different.
I’m not MGTOW but not dating either. Mostly just going “monk mode” for a while. In some ways it’s probably not a good idea because I work alone a lot, but I’ve made some strides to get out over the past year to meet people and to get out again. I’m not socially inept but at the same time I’ve lost many years of time to develop personal relationships for a number of reasons; Mostly through spending all of my time on marriage and constant working. I seem to have the efficiency thing down to a science now, so I’ve got a lot of free time these days.
Yea we have 3 right now… the 7 1/2 yr old, 3 yr old, and the 7 month old… hoping to have at least one more in another year and a half.
A Dad, it sounds like the lady was signaling her interest in you. I hope you’ll give it a chance. You’re not colleagues so what’s the harm? Good luck! Maybe love is in the air 💗❤💗
How things played out in the past is of minimal importance because we can’t hop into a way back machine and reset things to our liking. We have to deal with the here and now. Plus most folks have either and overly romantic notion of the past or an overly negative notion.
As a Christian who married a virgin marrying a virgin doesn’t make sense to me. It’s not a magic success pill. The older vrignal women I have ran across…..all 2 of them….. had made some weird fetish out of their virginity and the younger girls in my extended circles seem to fall into the afraid vs being good category. Or just haven’t fallen for a guy get.
Things are so fucked up most things aren’t going to make sense on a macro level which is why individual men need micro solutions.
Good luck to your your dogs RPG. I recently picked up a rescue and thimgs were looking grim for her future up until last night. Now we have no reason to think Baby Girl won’t last another 2-4 years.
Plan was to put her down or get her on her feet and adopt her out but I am going to keep this one.
“Good luck to your your dogs RPG. I recently picked up a rescue and thimgs were looking grim for her future up until last night. Now we have no reason to think Baby Girl won’t last another 2-4 years.
Plan was to put her down or get her on her feet and adopt her out but I am going to keep this one.”
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I’ve got one that’s getting pretty old. About 15. He still seems to be mostly OK but has been getting really slow on the stairs, big decline in muscle mass, bony ribs, etc.
“Yea we have 3 right now… the 7 1/2 yr old, 3 yr old, and the 7 month old… hoping to have at least one more in another year and a half.”
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I never knew how much I would have wanted that many until after my son was born. If there is one regret about my marriage to my ex is that it’s become more common for some women to want to stop at one.
“A Dad, it sounds like the lady was signaling her interest in you. I hope you’ll give it a chance. You’re not colleagues so what’s the harm? Good luck! Maybe love is in the air 💗❤💗”
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I appreciate the encouragement, but I think that it’s really unlikely. Even if we don’t work for the same company there is a huge business risk if I were to attempt it.
“How things played out in the past is of minimal importance because we can’t hop into a way back machine and reset things to our liking. We have to deal with the here and now. Plus most folks have either and overly romantic notion of the past or an overly negative notion.
As a Christian who married a virgin marrying a virgin doesn’t make sense to me. It’s not a magic success pill. The older vrignal women I have ran across…..all 2 of them….. had made some weird fetish out of their virginity and the younger girls in my extended circles seem to fall into the afraid vs being good category. Or just haven’t fallen for a guy get.
Things are so fucked up most things aren’t going to make sense on a macro level which is why individual men need micro solutions.”
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Pretty good points, Ton.
I’m glad your son is already enjoying stuff like that.
They’ve ruined boy cartoons now days. It’s a huge pet peeve of mine that I never really talk about, but they completely ruined Peter Pan (the new soyboy show Jake and the Neverland Pirates where they’ve made him “nice”… way too nice).
I like Peter Pan when he was like a real little mischievous boy. A boy that was playing two girls at once because guess what? He was high value and could have some choice and was still immature (how he was supposed to be at that age) and enjoying life. The new Peter Pan is an emasculated boy, and “Jake” the new main character is a white knight in training. It’s awful!
Steph: “But BV and Ton both married virgin church girls… so it’s not like any of us are saying that it’s a perfect deal.”
Minor point, but I did not. I was raised by an editor and a poet, in a very liberal university town, and we were Unitarians. I didn’t become a Christian until middle age. (Typical crisis Christian.) My first wife (the only real one), likewise, was not Christian, and we met at an extremely liberal, academic college where the notion of Christian sexual reticence was a lot less popular than being a Trotskyite. (I use the strict definition, not the usual definition which devolves to “Christianish”.)
I think the red pill is easier to grasp if one is Christian. It’s important to distinguish Christian from Churchian, as is well-demonstrated, ad nauseum, in this thread.
“The Ansari case cannot be judged as typical because he’s a celebrity and she was worse that a fan, she was a want-to-be something that felt she needed his attention.”
I’d say it’s extremely typical, on the contrary. A man in a small town might not be a celebrity, but if he is distinguished by certain financial, status and physical stature markers, women will treat him (and time with him) as the starfucker treated Ansari. A_Dad had a similar experience with the office widow in his recent meeting; she broke all protocol to raise the “I’m Available, To You” flag. Now, these aren’t women who show up on Page Six of the NYPost, but that’s not the point. The Ansari case is an exemplar case for the majority of women wandering around these days. Men ignore its lessons at their peril. We live in an era of “what I want, when I want it, for any reason, and it had better be good or you’re an abuser and I will fuck you up.”
In short, women react to the same cues irrespective of context, because we are hierarchical creatures and have been (to quote Peterson) for 350 mm years.
‘I think the red pill is easier to grasp if one is Christian. It’s important to distinguish Christian from Churchian, as is well-demonstrated, ad nauseum, in this thread.’
The red pill is basically trying to point out the truth of things. Christianity is all about ‘the Way, the Truth, and the Life’.
Agree with Ton. I attend an *extremely* conservative church, when I don’t attend one that is even more conservative. Both have a few born-again virgins (i.e., single moms wearing the I-Am-A-Professional-Victim crown), but the only virgins I see are the preacher’s teenaged kids, who still live at home.
If I met an adult virgin — and I don’t believe I ever have, and I have interacted with Amish, Hutterites, and Mennonites — I would question my, her, or his sanity. My experience of the Bible thumpers who tout their sexual probity is that they are in sexually diseased or dead marriages, or wish they were. So they make a virtue of chastity. They think that men and women are equal (which is code for the woman shames and directs men; as Dalrock notes, she supplants Jesus as the proper object of worship), talk endlessly about this feminist complementarian bullshit, and for whom guys like Ton are threatening, in the manner of the Jungian Trickster archetype. For them, the only good man is a shackled and obedient man. (Of course this attitude betrays their attraction to such men, and their frustrated hypergamous instincts.)
I have a couple of personal friends who are pastors, and this is a subject that they have thought a lot about. They do not discuss it in the pulpit; they are curious, however, if we are talking privately in the vestry or at the bar, where they usually drop on me their SMP workaround, this crap “complementarian” pseudo-theology.
It seems to be the feminist-compliant workaround they’ve all seized upon to negotiate with their female congregants, and it controls any male-female discussion in Sunday School. They will get extremely uncomfortable if I contradict their sainted view of female virtue, and really struggle with the basic reality: even their self-righteous professional victim single moms will strip and screw on the first date if the guy is a guy she wants.
Oh, they get pissed off if you tell them this. They’ll protest and complain that the observation alone endangers my soul. It’s like saying “I’m worried about your soul” because a man says, “It’s fifteen below this morning, whew.”
The only adult virgins out there are eccentrics talking about shit they’ve never observed. The only place I encounter anyone who asserts virginity as essential to Grace and happiness is the manosphere, and there, most of the loudest voices have no idea what they’re talking about.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, Earl. I was totes confused previously.
BV killin’ it today. I would generally agree with just about everything there.
That brings us back to the original post by RPG. What do you women really think that your daughters should be doing if they aren’t going to “just go with it”? Marry the best option as early as possible, or don’t marry at all?
I know that Love’s summary sorta interprets that women should either marry early or not at all. I don’t think that is necessarily what people are intending but that seems to be how it is working out unless they marry late and don’t have children. I’m seeing a lot of women who waited until their thirties that are finding fewer quality options and their list of requirements might just be too high. It’s been said that a lot of marriages end up being last ditch resorts to lock someone down before it’s too late.
Media seems to portray that there is no shortage of men that want to marry at 40-50 years old but I’m seeing it happen a lot differently. Those guys most often seem to be divorced gluttons for punishment, broke and beaten down. More men become established and don’t want to take the risks unless children is the primary motivation, to which a woman of similar age becomes a risky proposition. Maybe fine as a long-term partner, but maybe not as a potential mother. I’m not discrediting women for choosing between family or career but there are serious pitfalls in trying to juggle both. The trend these days is for women to shame other women who make motherhood their priority and it’s very unfortunate.
I’d have no problem waiting until marriage for the right women but the circumstances would have to meet a very specific criteria of age, mental wellness, desire to have a family, willingness to commit to a prenup, etc. I was married to a woman who “didn’t believe in divorce”… Until she wanted a divorce.
Mister Jackson explains it with style
BV – are you writing your autobiography?! hope so 🙂
An autobiography of Buena Vista is one I’d read.
Media seems to portray that there is no shortage of men that want to marry at 40-50 years old but I’m seeing it happen a lot differently. Those guys most often seem to be divorced gluttons for punishment, broke and beaten down. More men become established and don’t want to take the risks unless children is the primary motivation, to which a woman of similar age becomes a risky proposition. Maybe fine as a long-term partner, but maybe not as a potential mother.
Yeah. Most of what I am seeing is that the men who want to marry at 40-55 or so are men who are already have at least one divorce under their belts, and who “don’t do well” on their own. They’re thoroughly Blue Pilled, and just need a woman in their lives on a steady basis. One man I know whose divorce I’ve written about before, started dating within 6 months after the papers were filed and before he was divorced. He remarried within a few months after the divorce was final. (And that was his second marriage, to the mother of his sons. He had a very brief first marriage to a woman who left him for a lesbian lifestyle. So he’s on his third marriage now.) He is one of those broken, beaten down guys who can’t make it through life without a woman’s approval and assurances. He just turned 50. He was with his first wife 5 years, his second wife 18 years, and now with his third, about 3 years. He has been with a woman or married almost his entire adult life.
There seems to be a growing number of men out there who are not interested in remarrying. They fall into two groups – men who date a lot, and men who don’t date at all. It’s feast or famine for these guys.
The women in this age group who tend to remarry are either (1) devout Christians, or (2) upper middle class on up women from traditional backgrounds for whom “dating around” would be “unseemly” and for whom divorce was a status hit. They can and do remarry following divorces. For most of these women, being divorced is a huge status reducer.
For the rest of these women, they seem to be an unlucky lot. Many of them are attractive enough. But they have kids at home they’re still raising, they deal with an ex husband/baby daddy, and they work full time out of necessity at jobs they dont’ necessarily like all that much. They’re tired, stressed out, frazzled, and don’t have much left for dating. They act much like women in their late teens and early 20s – they will have sex very rapidly with men they’re attracted to, or for other reasons, usually for “I’ve still got it” validation. Otherwise, they’ll make him wait or turn him away, despite their rapidly declining values.
The only men interested in them, they claim, are (1) younger men who think they’re easy cougars; (2) unattractive divorced schlubs; and (3) much older men. The very few attractive men in their age groups are dating women in their late 20s and early 30s. To those men, decently attractive 45 year old women are booty calls. In other words, they’re 45 year old players who have no interest in remarrying at all, they are cleaning up with this group, and their age peers are completely unattractive to them for anything but sex.
That is what the scene for 35-55 year olds looks like to an outsider.
This checks out.
I have a buddy who runs 2000 acres with no bank note on the ground. This means he has a net worth of $20 million+. He could not get a table at a good NYC restaurant. He appears to bathe once a week.
He also can’t drive, because DUI and telling the cops to fuck off. So I meet the strangest females (who do drive) when he comes to town.
The latest, Tammy, is about 5’4″, 180 pounds. She was near tears discussing how her new hot boyfriend uses her as an emotional tampon, going on at length about his failed marriage. Admittedly, that would be annoying. Embarrassingly, I was that guy when I got divorced.
Anyway. She had no idea that:
a. men only remember the good times, women the opposite. Guess which sex moves on better after divorce?
b. men just want to replace their lost married state with same.
c. men are inarticulate about divorce, since we weren’t trained to marry in order to get dumped.
d. men take years to overcome a divorce. Women, a crisp meeting at the lawyer’s.
I advised her to nicely tell her boyfriend to come back after he had the wherewithal to stop talking about his ex-wife. I didn’t tell her that he wouldn’t, once he got his shit together, because she is a middle-aged woman built like a tree stump. (They only bought me one drink, and I don’t do crying for a single drink.)
Damn! Dad’s dog is struggling to. It’s always dad to watch them fade away since you can remember them when they were full of life.
The men I see trying to remarry when they are 40-50 are looking to relaunch a family life with a much younger woman. Can’t recall any man I know who is in that age range and wants to marry a girl in that age range.
I know a couple who are living with women their age but no marriage plans as far as I know
Yup BV is crushing it
d. men take years to overcome a divorce. Women, a crisp meeting at the lawyer’s.
you are right … women do NOT get this. i don’t get why they don’t, but they don’t. i’ve had some *discussions* with other women about this. one woman couldn’t understand why her dad couldn’t just move on after her mother left him for another man – she took that as a weakness in her dad. grrrrrrrrrrrr. then she turned around and said her mom never talked bad about her dad. ye-ah. right. i believe that one. not.
The reason why Ame is….. men are not real to most women. For most women, everyone but her doesn’t really exist, we are all just extras in the movie that is her life
Ton, that makes me so angry.
i wish i had some magic fairy dust that i could give y’all to heal all your heart-wounds … after i use it on my girls 😉 .
lots of (((hugs))).
glad your new dog is doing well. so sorry to hear about Bloom’s doggies. it broke my heart when our dog died a few years back – i was the one caring for her and there was nothing i could do.
dog we have now, though, has grown on me and stolen my heart. she’s a little thing, and she’s deaf, and she has such a hilarious personality! since she can’t hear, if she doesn’t like the hand instruction, she puts her nose in the air and turns her head just enough so she can’t see … waits a moment … then turns back to see if the instruction still stands! she sleeps at the bottom of our bed and tries to scoot up between us. i’ll give her hand signals to send her back to her spot (which has two fluffy, soft blankets – she’s not ill-treated at all), and she’ll turn towards my Husband who laughs because he knows i’m gonna pick her little butt up and move her back b/c no doggie gets to sleep between me and my man 😉
Wtf….Who isn’t healed?
My Lady Pit always gets between me and one of The Girls while we sleep. Always. Like it’s her mission in life
On my recent travels I saw this small dog who’s back legs didn’t work. They had this harness deal that allowed them to carry it’s hind qauters when the walked. Well the sat the dog down, told it to stay and it crawled forward dragging it’s crippled legs
I thought it was cute and shows how dogs, even crippled ones want to be near it’s people
lol!
i do give her more measure on a lot of things since she can’t hear, so touch is the easiest way for her to know we’re still there. i know i spoil her. i know my Husband just likes to watch the interaction in bed … likes to watch two females fighting over who gets to sleep closest to him … but i imagine you get that every night, too 😉 … thankfully (for me) the other female is a dog and is a lot smaller than i!
LOL well I fall asleep with a Girl on each side and The Lady Pit between my legs. The Lady Pit always wins the sleeping next to me battle
Here is one for Stephanie. Jordan B. Petersen wrecks interviewer Cathy Newman on gender related discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54
Why do I think that it’s likely that she went back to her makeup room and cried her eyes out after this?
“Damn! Dad’s dog is struggling to. It’s always dad to watch them fade away since you can remember them when they were full of life.”
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Yeah, man. Sometimes I begin to think that this dog is going to live forever or something, because he just bounces back and keeps on going. It’s really sad to see him show the signs of age but I think it’s going to hurt his dog brother even more when he’s gone.
So true re hard to watch the pups get old. I have one who has arthritis in the hips so bad I mostly carry her from one dog bed to another placed around the house. She’s like that 80 year old plus granny watching the world go by from her chair. But she seems happy enough. Both the younger pups are hanging in, things are about the same but not worsening so that’s actually very good! I was told once we are past the first 72 hours the odds are extremely good. Almost there.
Like a lot of people, if a dog’s emotional life is stable (like humans some dogs are not that stable all on their own), they really do tend to bounce back. If the household is chaos … be sure the see the vet the moment they start to seem sick.
Some dogs are INDESTRUCTIBLE no matter what. I had a Beagle from the time I was six until I was twenty-seven. I guess it would be an insult to her breed to call her the Energizer Bunny, so I’ll say she was clearly built to chase down the Energizer Bunny. Mostly blind, deaf, and cancerous, I watched her kill two rats that got into our house about six months before she died. Bam, Bam. Inside of fifteen seconds. We just stood there with our mouths hanging open. Then there was cheering.
Both of the parvo pups are eating and drinking on their own again. They seem back to their old selves! I am still trying to get them to take it easy but I think we are over the hump, thank Goodness!
ahhh, Bloom! so happy to hear that! it’s amazing what these animals mean to us 🙂
I am glad to hear that the puppies will pull through.
Good to hear darling
Yay RPG.
Parvo in pups is 80%+ mortality even with intervention.
Our great dane pup’s 7 siblings all died of it.
We were like you giving IV fluids. Afterr ten days on deaths door he actually leaked like the cartoons when we injected him. He had so many holes in him.
Luckily he pulled thru and lived to be a ripe old 12.