I’ll admit, the red pill gets to me at times. It can seem overwhelmingly negative, defeatist, hopeless even. In a world so upside down, with such unrest and instability, what’s the point?
When I feel like that, I refocus on the gift the red pill can give — the chance to craft a life. A life based in reality, yes, but at least a reality that has some chance of success versus pipe dreams and fairy tales.
And even more, the chance to craft a life not only for myself but for my children. A hope to help them avoid the snares and pretty little lies that lead so many astray. To help them get it right.
Sure, I sometimes miss the days when I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Or I think I do until I remember how poorly all that really worked.
The red pill can be bitter, reveal harsh truths we’d rather not see, detonate all once held to be true. Yet it’s only from there one gets the chance to rebuild — wiser, better, stronger. The chance to truly craft a life well lived.
What do you think? How has the red pill changed your life for better or worse? Please share in the comments.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
Yea cooking really isn’t that hard. Women are lazy if they don’t try to learn… and all the best chefs seem to be men it seems.
I’ve never undertsood why women complain so much about cooking… it’s like an adventure to see what kind of amazing things you can create.
“Yea cooking really isn’t that hard. Women are lazy if they don’t try to learn… and all the best chefs seem to be men it seems.
I’ve never undertsood why women complain so much about cooking… it’s like an adventure to see what kind of amazing things you can create.”
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My ex was quite a good cook. I was surprised at how she acquired that skill, because it wasn’t something that she had early on. I always tried to compliment her and thank her for it. She was very devoted to it for some time and really put a lot into it.
In the last few years though, she stopped, and just went MIA, so I had to do it instead. I come from a family where both my mother and father are excellent cooks. She didn’t but still seemed determined to learn the craft.
I wonder what on earth happened that made her do that? I’ve read you explain it before, but it just doesn’t make sense to me 😦 So sad.
Yes it is odd A Dad. Sounds like she started out as a great mother and nurturing wife. Wonder why she turned a 180.
“I wonder what on earth happened that made her do that? I’ve read you explain it before, but it just doesn’t make sense to me 😦 So sad.”
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She lost her shit and checked out. I know that it seems ludicrous but it happens more often than you might believe. Female mid-life crisis. You make fun of us for the cars and trucks. We make fun of you for your endless search for dark triad beefcake guys on romance novels.
Bloom, eating healthy and keeping relatively low carb (no need to only have 20g a day… you can have quite a bit more) is mostly how weight comes off. Then adding cardio and your boot camp should increase it.
But if you don’t eat “clean” mostly, lots of proteins and healthy carbs and veggies, then the boot camp won’t have as much of an effect on weight loss as it would coupled with a good diet.
“I wonder what on earth happened that made her do that? I’ve read you explain it before, but it just doesn’t make sense to me 😦 So sad.”
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Stephanie, I know you’ve seen this. I think it’s hilarious.
Better link.
lol he’s so sweet. I could listen to him all day, everyday, and never get bored.
I have his new book. Arrived in the mail today.
@Stephanie said:
“The women on this blog can’t think their way out of a paper bag.”
LOL BV …. Love it!
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Stephanie – I’m really curious: what about that statement do you love? Do you think the statement is correct?
My brother is from Washington State (it rains a lot). His wife died. He married someone from Southern California (it doesn’t rain a lot). He expects her to move to Washington State. She has no intention of doing that. So they clash. And so they went to a marriage seminar.
Brother tells me of a really cool thing: guy running the seminar asked all the guys to turn to their wives and describe all of the things and materials and colors of their bedrooms. Most men came up blank. Brother thought that was a really cool demonstration of what cads men were – not paying attention to their wives and all.
I just looked at him and said: next question is this – women, turn to your husband and describe what is in his shop – all the tools, what color they are, and what each tool does.
Brother was dumbstruck. He got the point – that most women probably couldn’t do that. And why did the guy running the seminar not ask that question of the women, instead of the bedroom question he asked the guys? Got through to my brother a bit, although he doesn’t really know what to do with that new knowledge. Folks learn what they look at, what they pay attention to. Guys don’t generally pay attention to the finer things in the bedroom and gals generally don’t pay much attention to what is in the shop or tool shed. That is as it should be. To use that natural demarcation as a weapon to bludgeon the men with in a marriage seminar is seriously unethical / not legitimate.
My point: men and women are different. They think differently. Women aren’t supposed to be able to think their way out of a paper bag. That’s what the men are for. Women are supposed to think thier way out of a paper box. Men can’t do that.
A husband and wife who only know how to do the same things are going to have a very limited life together. Better that she can do things he can’t, and he can do things she can’t. That way, the scope of their life together can be much broader. Each being better at something than the spouse is is one of the major things necessary “to truly craft a life well lived”.
So now, let’s all make fun of the things that we can do and our spouse can’t, or the things that one sex can do better than the other, if the other can do them at all. (ht to BV)
Can you say “good grief”. And “grow up”?
A Dad what’s your workout regime like?
I admit I don’t enjoy cooking. I don’t like doing anything where I’m standing in one spot for a while. But I do cook, mostly easy meals though. Or I get my guy to help. He’ll cook too, which I love. Also when I was a kid, my grandma pushed it on me and literally told me no man would want to be with me if I do don’t cook for him. So early I on I developed a rebellion against that kind of thinking.
” He married someone from Southern California (it doesn’t rain a lot). He expects her to move to Washington State. She has no intention of doing that. So they clash. And so they went to a marriage seminar.”
They shouldn’t have married if she was clearly NOT going to follow him.
…
Ash do you mean you developed a rebellion against wanting to please a future husband? I was told similar things growing up, just matter of factly, and accepted them and even though I came into marriage not knowing how to cook hardly at all, I had a huge desire to make my husband happy. And it’s not like he took advantage of that or does in any way. He pays me back in a multitude of ways.
But real love comes from choices like that where you do little things that overtime add up to creating a life together. My husband can cook, we cooked together when we were dating and it was fun 🙂 But he has no time to cook now. And the little time he does have to relax and unwind, I want him to keep that to himself.
Again a lot of real lasting love comes from not having that spirit of rebellion against doing what needs to be done to take care of your relationship and family. Running a family is like running a small business. If you’re partner or employer has that attitude of rebellion about doing what needs to be done in order to make it profitable, it will eventually destroy your whole company.
I’m sure he probably means me, too, RP, but it’s still funny!
Stephanie, I wouldn’t say it’s a rebellion against pleasing a future husband, but against the attitude that cooking is something that women are obligated to do for men, exclusively. That women do X because they’re women, and men must do Y because they’re men. I have no problem if other people want to adhere to that, but it’s not for me. Our rule of thumb is whoever gets home from work first gets to start dinner. Sometimes it’s him, sometimes it’s me.
Great points Richard!
“Ash do you mean you developed a rebellion against wanting to please a future husband? I was told similar things growing up, just matter of factly, and accepted them and even though I came into marriage not knowing how to cook hardly at all, I had a huge desire to make my husband happy. And it’s not like he took advantage of that or does in any way. He pays me back in a multitude of ways.”
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That’s the important part of the matter. Not keeping score and actually working together. I tend to get the impression that my ex was also taught to put her own interests before her husband, because that’s what her mother also did. It wasn’t like that early on though. It just gradually went from mutual care for one another to something very one-sided. I did grow up in a home where my mother loved to cook for the family, and she was married to a loving man who worked very hard to take care of everyone. Mutual taking ownership of tasks to get things done. This works.
“Stephanie, I wouldn’t say it’s a rebellion against pleasing a future husband, but against the attitude that cooking is something that women are obligated to do for men, exclusively. That women do X because they’re women, and men must do Y because they’re men. I have no problem if other people want to adhere to that, but it’s not for me. Our rule of thumb is whoever gets home from work first gets to start dinner. Sometimes it’s him, sometimes it’s me.”
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Ash – Sure, but you might only saying that because your situation is a little different than Stephanie’s. Or even my marriage. Even though you might not like it, there are legitimate reasons why men and women tend to be better suited for specific tasks. Both you and your guy might work, might have equal paying jobs, a couple of dogs instead of kids. It might make sense that you have relatively equal jobs if you rent an apartment and neither of you have anything else to do at the end of your 8-5 job.
Compare that to a woman who stays at home, or even a man who does (in the case of Roman Lance). If you have one person raising the children, it makes economical sense (normally) that that person handles the majority of household tasks. Up until recently, it was entirely unlikely that any woman would earn as much as her guy in the job market. It still is unlikely, largely based upon the types of jobs that women and men take on. For example; Based upon the work I do, I would have to marry a woman who is at least a doctor or lawyer to mean that we could break even where I should be at home to raise children. I would not put my kids into daycare and my son never has been in one; Not even for a single day.
Also consider RichardP’s example of a wife and husband who clearly have different priorities. She loves decorating. He has a garage full of tools. These aren’t criteria that are imposed upon them as a matter of social constructs. These are simply things that they feel motivated to do from a biological perspective. I have a garage full of tools. I love working on things; My home, cars, and soon bikes.
Let’s say that you own a home now, and both of you wake up in the morning. What if there is a driveway with nearly a foot of snow? Is it his “job” to get out there at 4 AM while you work on your hair? What about if a pipe bursts? Are you going to sweat copper to fix it? How about if your car needs new brakes? Should he tell you to fix it yourself because it’s not a “man’s job”? Or how about cutting the lawn sometimes 2 times per week, or fixing an ever-breaking house full of appliances since seldom are things built to last anymore.
This is the fallacy with the feminist concept that women no longer have to do “women’s jobs”. Because men still have to do “men’s jobs”, even after they work their full-time jobs and spend more time than ever with their children. I think that women seem to not understand just how many conveniences they now have, relatively fewer “women’s jobs” because almost everything can be done domestically with a machine, and so many women can’t even cook much more than spaghetti for their family.
Sure, it’s true that women have jobs and a life outside of the home now. But your perspective changes a lot when you’ve got a family to take care of and things MUST get done. It seems that we now have a generation of people who barely graduate past being lifelong teenagers; They never learn real life skills, never learn to really be self sufficient, and never learn how to be responsible because they take the easy road of limited responsibility.
I’m not picking on you. I just think that this concept is flawed. I don’t know what you do outside of blogging. I don’t know what your guy does. But coming from the perspective of being a guy who busted his ass sometimes for 80 hours per week, who still would come home and cook for his son, clean, and do all of the repair and yard work around the home, while mom “checked out” and lost her marbles, and was out constantly playing because she didn’t give two shits anymore about “gender roles” (viva feminism), I cannot relate. She got the the GTFO or start pulling your own weight speech that Deti and I both had. Deti’s wife chose to fix the problems. Mine chose to leave. There is a very big problem with women with that frame of mind, and that’s that they are perpetual adolescents. The only thing that can make them learn to be accountable is to force them to do it, and now my ex is paying the price for this. The days of fun are now over because she MUST work to support herself, MUST care for her own home, and MUST cook every time the boy is with her.
Stephanie loves to do “women’s jobs” for her husband because she LOVES her her husband. He risks his life every day for his family. He’s out slaying metaphorical dragons. See video above about women who like “dangerous men who can be tamed”. But he never takes advantage of her. They have mutual generosity for one another. If a woman cannot do this, she is not fit to be a wife to someone. No woman who rejects her “women’s jobs” deserves to be married to a man for whom she expects to do “men’s jobs”. That may even include working a job and paying the bills.
This is precisely why many men have checked out and young women like Love cannot find a good guy, this is the crux of the problem. There is a legitimate man crisis just like there is a legitimate crisis of finding good women in a sea of perpetual children. Nothing in it for guys in the long run anymore. I’m not sure that even you can debate this, even if you might not agree with me on the actual reasons why. I can tell you though, with certainty, that any woman who comes into my life will play by these rules or will get a “Next!” pretty quickly. Because I’m not wasting my time anymore with someone who behaves like a child and cannot put in the effort to pull her part of the weight. I don’t work my job and maintain my castle only to have some little princess hang around and reap the benefits without paying her dues.
“A Dad what’s your workout regime like?”
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Calisthenics, fill in the gaps with heavy kettlebells (every man should aspire to slowly work up to the 106 lb Beast, even if just for basic exercises). A good dose of cardio like one that is used for fight training, even if you don’t plan to fight. Train like a fighter. I lift casually throughout the day and do bodyweight exercises. I do at least 45 minutes of cardio a few times per week. I used to do a lot more cardio but I’m taking a break for a while. Most men don’t gain a lot of benefits from too much cardio though. I hate jogging, so simple skipping of rope, foot work, or hitting a heavy bag is fine for me.
It’s possible to do all of the strength training without a gym membership but if you want to get really big you probably need one. I don’t want to get huge (just strong) so I don’t use a gym for strength training. I do have some weights and a dip belt at home. Watch Calisthenic Movement or Fitness FAQs on Youtube for some great videos on bodyweight training. I’m a big fan of gym rings. Really economical strength tool if you have a place to hang them. I can do 1-arm push ups and I am working to 1-arm pullups, but my pull strength is a bit weak for my body size. I’m trying to work on that.
Who does the cooking in a relationship and why they do it is a very interesting topic. My wife and I agree to live with more traditional roles where she does the cooking almost all the time. We have met multiple other couples through the years, some where the woman cooks, others were the woman “can’t cook”, and a few where the man does most of the cooking willingly. All of the couples I am referencing here have traditional gender roles, with the woman mostly/completely at home while the man works.
I really find the relationship where the woman “can’t cook” most interesting. (I had one friend tell me his wife could burn water) What I do not understand about these situation is why a man puts up with it.
The fact of the matter is; if you can read, you can cook. If you can read and still claim you can’t cook, then you are just to dang lazy to make food. So, I look at these marriages were the wife “can’t cook” and it makes me think: huh?
In truth, the marriages where I saw this happen they woman wanted to stay home and not have a carrier, but she also did not want to prepare meals for her husband. So out comes her inability to cook. Now the husband needs to find a way to take care of her by providing meals. I still laugh at these men.
I laugh now, but when I was dating and eventually getting married, I never investigated my wife’s cooking abilities. I did know she planned on doing the cooking, so that was good enough for me. I will not bore you with the rest of the “cooking in our home” story.
goFigure – I have a neighbor family that’s just like that. I think that I mentioned them before. The husband works, and then does all of the work around the home. She doesn’t cook or do anything else. She’s decided that her role is to spend 100% of her time being a “mommy” and that means that she is not a “wife” or even a “partner”.
Her lazy parents live in another part of the house. Her useless mom does nothing and the dad does have a job, but they never contribute to the overall care of the home.
Nobody cooks. They just buy takeout every day. Then they wonder why they don’t have any extra money and the in-laws have to live there. It makes me sad, because he’s a really good dude. He’s ex-military but clearly has been domesticated to “beta” role and clearly is unhappy with the situation of having a do-nothing wife and her useless parents living there. The wife is getting grossly overweight as well.
It reinforces the issues of gender dynamics. Women generally hate weak men and will tear them down and use them while it suits them. He’s doing what he was trained to do but doesn’t realize that it’s going to have a negative impact in the long run. A good woman, with a sense of purpose, and love and respect for her man, will generally gladly accept a complimentary role in the marriage. But it’s hard for modern men to obtain this because it’s something that they now have to fight to work for, because women have also been programmed to be adversarial. Some of it is potentially normal biological behavior in the pursuit of finding a suitable mate.
Going to “mansplain” and say something that women really need to hear.
Men do not have the option to ignore “men’s jobs”. Shit needs to get done or nobody does it. There is no negotiating these things in a marriage because there is a social expectation that men still have to do “men’s jobs”. Those men who choose not to participate simply do not get to participate in relationships.
Women seem to think that they have the choice to avoid doing “women’s jobs” because they’ve been taught that this is acceptable. They have a choice whether or not they want to be a mother, work, cook, clean, etc. They still get to participate in relationships. That is fine, but they must accept that there are consequences to this.
Women cannot have it all even though they’ve been told that they can. You are ultimately making yourself unmarketable / unmarriageable if you think that you can have a man who fills the traditional male roles while you ignore your own female roles. Think about it a little bit. The shortage of suitable men is a direct result of these complex issues because men have checked out. If you want a man who has something to offer you, you must be able to offer something in return. Don’t say: “I work a job too and we also have great sex!” because that’s just a cop-out. Most men can have great sex and make a woman leave later. Being a valuable companion is far more important and most men don’t normally care about trivial secondary income if it compromises the relationship or the well-being of their children. Taking care of a home can be a full-time job, but it’s not optional. Far too many SAHMs have determined that this means play dates and lattes, such as the the example I provided above (or my own ex).
I’ll admit, the red pill gets to me at times. It can seem overwhelmingly negative, defeatist, hopeless even. In a world so upside down, with such unrest and instability, what’s the point?
The red pill means different things to men and women. BV is spot on that for men, red pill is freedom and hope, and that it’s not too late for a man to change and maybe get some of what he wants.
For women, the red pill can be bleak, because it says women don’t have a lot of time, and that for some of them, it is too late to change. It is too late to get what she wants. Oh, she can change, but odds are she won’t get what she wants. She will be able to get married to someone eventually. But odds are she would have married better had she not waited.
Better for women to really “get” the red pill, all of it, sooner rather than later. Women get half a red pill at birth because they learn very early on what men like, how to use what they have to attract men, what they like in men, and how to get it. They are constantly schooled from young ages on how attraction works.
The half you’re often not getting is that the attention/free stuff/casual sex gravy train has an expiration date, and you won’t know when that is, and you don’t know all the consequences for you. You aren’t told generally that the gravy train will dwindle until one day it doesn’t show up at the station to drop off the man/stuff/sex/attention/whatever else you expect it to deliver. You aren’t told that the stuff delivered will gradually degrade in quantity and quality. You aren’t told to hitch your ride on the train; you’re told to wait for the best train, and even worse, you’re told to make your own train and hitch a guy to it as its caboose.
You’re told getting married is great. You aren’t trained or taught what BEING married actually entails. First and foremost, you are your man’s “helpmeet”. That’s what you’re there for. A big part of that is sex. If you’re not offering sex, he’d have nothing to do with you. You’re his companion, lover, courtesan, and first mate. And that takes work, and lots of it. And you’re not taught that. Because many of you haven’t even seen a woman do it. Just as many red pill men have skewed ideas of what being a husband is, because it wasn’t modeled at all, or poorly if it was.
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The main reason men and women can’t discuss Red Pill concepts is because men’s and women’s interests are diametrically opposed and they constantly work at cross purposes to each other. Men are constantly trying to extract as much sex as possible from as many women as possible with as little effort and expense as possible. Women are following their dual mating strategies: going for as much AF as possible for as long as possible with a longshot of locking one down if they even care about that; or trying to find one man with the right calibration of AF and BB for her, and when that fails, just settling for the best she can get, holding her nose, and walking down the aisle. Most fall into that third category. A few manage to do the first two, and they all seem to be concentrated in the manosphere’s ladies auxiliary. The unlucky majority wash up in marriage counseling or divorce courts, or remain in so-so marriages.
So those are the prime reasons for the disconnect: Women’s getting “the other half” of the red pill, and men and women’s opposed interests, motives and strategies.
LOL I almost remember that BV! But if memory serves you were only repeating what the “experts” always bleat on about and most gun experts aren’t. To much time writing and reading, not enough trigger time/ interacting with other pros.
Most gun myths have taken on cult like status and followings
RP I don’t get men who let women decorate their house. It’s my mother fucking castle, she’s just a serving wench
Love, darling, listen up
Here is the deal. Macro truths about women, age and marriage are legit. But you operate on a micro level. You have displayed nothing but a positive attitude. If you are like that in real life, not over weight etc etc and have realistic expectations you may very well stick your landing.
Liabilities, assets and offsets. Figure that shit out and away you go
Thanks Ton! I appreciate it! What does stick to my landing mean?
I keep trying to post this….. but Els has my back
https://www.thoughtco.com/stuck-landing-1714793
I love how Ton sneaks in with a positive response and posts it in a short and simple few sentences. Bravo, bro. And I completely agree.
Thank you for explaining. Sorry this is a dumb question – how do I apply this in real life? I can still do a cartwheel and land well but I’m sure that’s not what you mean.
Not dumb at all.
It’s a metaphor. Stick to being a positive, good quality person, and focus on the end goal rather than the short term. Eventually you’ll get to where you want to be.
Thank you A Dad
‘ What does stick to my landing mean? ‘
Sticking the landing is getting a guy to commit to you.
Love – this stuff out here can sound really harsh. lots of emotions and passion and intensity. irl, though, there is the whole picture. and balance. if you stay around long enough, you will see it come through.
irl no one has the perfect relationship b/c no one is perfect, but there are those that work better b/c they know their roles and remain in them – or, ‘hold their frame.’
then you’ve got personalities, preferences, styles. lots of variables.
idk if you believe in God or have ever read the Bible, but the Bible has some clearly defined roles for men and women (that even a lot of Christians who say they believe the Bible don’t follow or like). basically … God created man and gave him dominion over all the rest of His creation – plants and animals. God saw man was alone so created woman from the man, for the man. (Adam and Eve). when Even then Adam screwed up, God said from now on out women will desire their husbands. later in the Bible God tells wives to submit to their husbands and to respect them, and He tells husbands to love their wives.
that’s it in a nutshell.
treat a man with respect and deference. in a ltr of any kind, there will be times when this is a choice, an act of will, rather than something you always *feel* like doing b/c we women ride emotional roller coasters sometimes. so choose to do it anyway. do the things for him that he loves – actively showing him respect. and don’t simply *not* deny him sex but actively and enthusiastically participate. will there be times over the coarse of a ltr where you’re a little less into life than others? sure. but overall, you give it your best, respect your man in private and public, and defer to him.
and in most cases (there are always exceptions) you will have a very happy man who is more than willing to care for you. and when he cares for you, let him. and appreciate it.
Love – N count expectations will vary among men, but generally they prefer the lowest possible N count. the men who can handle the higher N counts are those who are super strong in who they are and in the bedroom … because it’s been proven over and over that a woman desires the man who was her best lover regardless of whether or not he desires her.
so if a woman settles for a man in any kind of ltr who does not curl her toes and make her out-of-her-mind crazy (at least more than any other man she’s ever slept with), then the possibility that she will eventually become dissatisfied with him in the bedroom is super high. once she’s lost sexual interest in him, the relationship is pretty much doomed.
therefore, the fewer men she has had sex with, the higher probability the one she commits to a ltr with is her best, and therefore her sexual desire for him should remain high.
no man wants a woman who does not sexually desire him more than every other man she’s ever been with.
Ame, I’m surprised you talk about Bible gender roles but don’t refer to the Bible when it comes to N count. God, is very clear what your N count should be.
Those are great comments A Dad… very good and each one could almost be a post in itself for women to think about.
On the whole issue of keeping score or wondering if the husband would ever take advantage of his wife (where she’s doing more of the “work” to keep the marriage running smoothly). I think it’s complicated. I think even if she sticks to “women’s work” and he sticks to the things men typically do for a family, there will be times where it fluctuates and she may be handling 75-80% of the total workload, and then some times where he may have to do that as well (like if she just had a major surgery or a baby or maybe an illness I don’t know).
I know it’s hardly ever 50-50. And it would be nice to see wives accept that with a gracious attitude that Lori often talks about in her posts.
There are times where I’m handling more than normal wives do, especially in the evenings when most husbands are usually home at an earlier time.
Or if a wife’s husband is military and he’s gone for training for a few weeks or on deployment for up to a whole YEAR… guess who is doing 90-100% of the workload at home?
Even husbands who are farmers are typically working super long days and their wives have to put in MUCH more than 50%.
But complaining about all that is not worth it… most of the time those situations are set and there’s little you can do to change it, so you have to look on the bright side and make it work as best as you can and with a very positive attitude.
…
TLDR version: It’s rarely ever really 50-50.
goFigure – I agree with the Bible, but not everyone here does, and idk if Love does or not.
imo, the Bible is the original RP book.
also … though controversial, I do agree with Artisanal Toad’s view of marriage and when it begins – something I believed before I ‘met’ him out here.
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the bottom line is that there are things we can change and there are things we cannot change. idk Love’s N count (and don’t want to – none of my business), but whatever it is right now, she can’t change that – she can only make choices toward her future.
also, I know very, very few who were virgins when they were legally married. AT would argue, and I agree with him, that every woman is married to the man who got her virginity, and every man is married to all the women whose virginity he takes. I make a distinction between a legal marriage – one of the state and/or church – whereas AT does not (to my knowledge).
if Love or any other woman wants to deal with the biblical fact she is married to whomever got her virginity (or to whomever gets her virginity if that woman is still a virgin), AT has all the info at his site.
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when we look at where we are today, we have to accept our own reality, decide where we want to go from here, and make choices to do so. we have to accept we cannot change our past, and we have to accept things about our present and future we cannot change. for example, i’m not tall. i’ll never have looong legs. if there’s a man out there who likes tall women with long legs, i’ll never be her. what I can do is wear clothes that accent my benefits and downplay my deficiencies. if I have type 1 diabetes, that’s not going away. I can’t change that (I don’t, but if I did ….). so it would benefit me to expand and strengthen my benefits so that the deficiencies I cannot change are minimized.
it’s a lot like a business deal – and to many men it is. what does a woman have to offer, and what can she do to compensate for what she can’t offer and/or for that which she can’t change.
imo – the risk to having casual sex is always greater for the woman. it increases her N count … it exposes her to disease … and it comes with the risk that she finds that her most fabulous lover couldn’t care a less about her or having a relationship with her.
imo – it’s best for a woman not to have sex until she’s willing to marry the guy (and, imo, sex = marriage). if she doesn’t know she wants to be married to him or not, imo – don’t have sex with him.
if her N count is zero going into marriage, then she has nothing to compare him to. as some of the guys out here have pointed out, though, marrying a virgin does not guarantee her fidelity and faithfulness. neither does marrying a ‘Christian’ virgin, or a church-going Christian virgin. sad, but true.
@ love, yes understand where things have gone wrong before, do and be different, forget aimless dating and start looking for a man you would marry who wants to marry you, would be my advice and I think what Ton means by stick the landing. Avoid all the nonsense, craft a good life for yourself, your man, and your future clan. Make that and them your priority over everything else. Craft a beautiful life for you and yours even if the rest of the world falls apart. On a micro level, YOU can win. But don’t leave it to chance… Take steps to make it do.
*make it so I mean.
Also Love, you mention you are not living in your native culture and it sounds like that culture has much stricter rules as far as “dating” (like how you said your male kin have never met anyone bc he wasn’t “the one.”) I am sure maybe those “old” ways seem restrictive but in fact they protect women from cads and being mislead. If you come from another culture you may be more easily manipulated than average and must be even more careful. So maybe something that can guide you is this — before things get too far, ask — would you bring the man home to introduce? Would he go? If not, have the strength to pass, keep on your search until you find someone who passes both.
That makes a lot of sense RPG. Thank you!
Thank you RPG. I admit the red pill does give me hope again. It makes me believe that there are good men out there that desire a good woman by their side… Men who still believe in gender roles…. Men who do not aspire to be stay at home dads… Real men
There are some good marriages with SAHDs out there, but it’s not a common situation. We have at least one around here. But it sounds like that’s not the kind of guy you are looking for. I know it’s not traditional, and most women don’t really want that. But it’s one of those unusual circumstances that works for some people.
@ love I know a few sahd who became so when children arrived and the couple had to decide who made more $ and had medical insurance w their job etc. but in all cases the couples really struggled bc there are just so many cultural norms and probably even biological norms that arrangement breaks. I’d say only the most rock solid couple could be so practical and not let resentments on either/both sides build. And in reality it could happen to anyone — one unexpected illness or layoff away. Once married and w kids the couple just needs to do what’s necessary to weather the storm.
Of course if a guy isn’t even interested in being a provider and is looking to be a sahd before there’s even a marriage or kids on the table, then I’d say yeah… Pass. Too blue pill.
Completely off topic but I found this blog with really good recipes that are inexpensive but taste better than most places to eat! Try to no knead bread, if nothing else! http://www.frugallivingnw.com/recipes
Yes everyone goes through unfortunate times. If its an absolute necessity given the high price of childcare/etc then a man should stay at home… if its the very last option. Yet biologically men need a purpose. The SAHDs I’ve known were comfortable being taken care of … Following their dreams of starting a band etc. It tilted the marriage on its side. Those men no longer were head of the household.
SAHDs are becoming more of a norm where I live. It seems gender roles are shifting greatly here. Most of my married male co-workers cook for their families. It has been a very interesting experience for me. I swap recipes with them and bring them spices sometimes. I understand some enjoy cooking but I like that red pill reinforces what a husband and wife’s true purpose is.
I’m very new to this world, and I have a lot of questions. Is Red Pill strictly about dating/sex, or do Red Pill men apply those theories to their mothers, grandmothers, sisters, etc.? What about Red Pill men having female friends?
I hope I didn’t offend anyone about SAHDs. I am sure some men are great fathers and handle a domestic role with ease and much skill. I understand desperate times call for such a shift in gender roles. Yet I’m curious if psychologically these men are affected by the switch.
@cwnsn the red pill is about much more than sex and dating, but bc that’s maybe one of the most interesting aspects of it, and one people can easily relate to and are interested in, that’s much of the discussion. It’s mainly a look at our current post modern world, and pointing out where all these supposed “advances” are either not better or are failing miserably despite them being touted widely as advances and getting lots of social kudos. And then in those cases, there is no going back, so how to go forward? Lots of this is a work in progress, theoretical, anecdotal, and controversial. nobody knows it all, think of it more as a salon where interesting and mind stretching discussions occur. Some productive, some not as much. Most important is to keep in mind these discussions are “in general” so being not thin skinned or emotionally reactive is good. At times the only solution is to agree to disagree. Welcome to the messiness! Try not to take anything too personal.
Also it’s not red pill men applying these “rules” to anyone, (spouse, mom, sister, daughter) it’s more about naming universal truths that generally apply whether we like them or not.
For example just tonight I was having a discussion w a millennial who is in a year+ same sex relationship. And even there, the fights and struggles and whatever they are having are the same. The red pill applies even in their case. It’s about being human. It’s about how the human mind works. Like it or not.
i’m always looking for something new. I tried a no-knead sourdough bread once; it was a total fail 😉
Love – I know personally two couples whose career roles are reversed from traditional. in the first I know that he is The head of his home and his wife, and he directs/approves everything. it might look odd on the outside, but on the inside, he’s the boss.
the other i’m not sure of. my perception is that he’s so blue pill he doesn’t know better and is willing just to keep her ‘happy.’ she gets to play this super successful career woman. their extended family values (both have huge extended families) demand they stay married. from the outside it seems to work. I have no idea what it’s really like on the inside.
I would guess that if the man is the head of his home and that he maintains that frame, it could work.
I stay away from the n count number for a few reasons. Life has taught me it doesn’t cary as much weight as folks like to believe. I was shit on by a virgin bride, treated like gold by women a lot of man o sphere dudes would pass up.Again macro vs micro. I think the loudest n count voices are heard while most dudes in the man o spehre are more flexible. I interact with a lot of men, only 2 mention an n=0 being high on their must have list, both are flexible on that given the tactical reality on the ground, neither are particularly high value men, yet. Maybe they will become less flexible as their own value raises?
Most men aren’t looking to marry the town whore, most understand that a girl will have had sex lives before they meet. What they don’t want is some girl who has done porn, group sex etc etc. A 40 year old gal who has a new boy friend every 18 months since she was 15 will have….. fuck math lets call it 15 boyfriends/ dicks. Probably not a selling point for most men but also probably not a deal breaker. A 22 year gal with an n count of 15 is a different issue.
Any rate, to many real life variables so for me the n count topic comes across as nailing jello to the wall.
‘ I make a distinction between a legal marriage – one of the state and/or church – whereas AT does not (to my knowledge).’
That’s why I don’t agree sex = marriage. If there was no public act of two people declaring marriage vows either to God or the state…then it’s fornication even if they are virgins. The marital act seals the commitment….so marriage = sex, but not the other way around. At the root of it I think it was trying to get around fornication.
That’s very interesting. That’s great that the husband is still the head of the household while not working.
Ton, you have the best phrases!
“Nailing jello to the wall” 😂
“I hope I didn’t offend anyone about SAHDs. I am sure some men are great fathers and handle a domestic role with ease and much skill. I understand desperate times call for such a shift in gender roles. Yet I’m curious if psychologically these men are affected by the switch.”
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I don’t think that anyone is offended. Most would probably agree with you. If anything, women are better suited for raising small children simply because they are able to feed them. I do think that things change though about the age of 4-6, where I believe that many men are better suited to actually raise a child to learn to be an adult. Doesn’t mean though that women can’t work and that men can’t do domestic tasks. Just normally isn’t the most sensible solution for many.
Sounds as though you have met a lot of guys that aren’t interested in the traditional roles, let alone would be qualified for it. People seem to be marrying later, having children later, etc. So there seems to be a lot of marriage early on (early-mid ’20s) and then a break where the remaining people tend to get married in their ’30s. Then a time where guys stop marrying by 40 if they haven’t married at all or have been divorced. I always thought that this was an interesting article:
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/bachelor-nation-70-men-aged-20-34-are-not-married
From the article:
‘Seventy percent of American males between the ages of 20 and 34 are not married, and many live in a state of “perpetual adolescence” with ominous consequences for the nation’s future, says Janice Shaw Crouse, author of “Marriage Matters.”
“Far too many young men have failed to make a normal progression into adult roles of responsibility and self-sufficiency, roles generally associated with marriage and fatherhood,” Crouse, the former executive director of the Beverly LaHaye Institute, wrote in a recent Washington Times oped.
The high percentage of bachelors means bleak prospects for millions of young women who dream about a wedding day that may never come. “It’s very, very depressing,” Crouse told CNSNews.com. “They’re not understanding how important it is for the culture, for society, for the strength of the nation to have strong families.”
I can tell this Barbara probably has very little ground truth to how things are going. More often than not the choices of women these ‘adolescent’ men have are just as irresponsible and living on welfare. This problem is a problem of both sexes…with just as many if not more women acting like teenagers in their 20-30-40s.
On top of that…young women aren’t dreaming of a wedding day when they are young. They dream of a degree, a career, experiences, trips and sowing the V before marriage. It’s only when they tire of all of that do they even begin to wake up to the idea of marriage.
On a note related to that article: I’m finding it fairly fascinating though that so many young women claim to want the things that they have been programmed to want; Good career, unlimited sexual freedom, etc. Seems though that they get into the grind over a several years and start to think: “You know, working every day like be a man isn’t as good as I thought it would be. I’d kinda like to settle down.”
Earl – I agree with you. I think that the statistics are interesting but the logic is flawed. It’s pretty typical though of media to be biased in favor of women, to state that only men are the cause of the problems. Everyone wants men to marry women, until the women don’t want to be married anymore to the same guy.
It’s like they are telling men “Don’t ignore your biological roles! We demand that you ‘man up’!” while at the same time telling them that biological differences don’t exist. LOL.
“On top of that…young women aren’t dreaming of a wedding day when they are young. They dream of a degree, a career, experiences, trips and sowing the V before marriage. It’s only when they tire of all of that do they even begin to wake up to the idea of marriage.”
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It depends. There are a small number of women who still believe the fairy tale that marriage is going to automatically be perfect and easy once they meet the perfect guy. My ex was like that; Marriage and a family were her dream.
Fast forward many years though. It becomes mundane and “boring”, and she has no other real skills for the work world. She hates her marriage (blaming her husband, rather than taking ownership of her actions) and the place that she is at in life. It’s not an uncommon scenario if the divorce rate / ratio are to be examined.
I would say that the best wives probably worked to at least make something of themselves for even a short time before having a family. That way, I think that they can appreciate both sides of the coin; Rewarding family vs. stress and working all the time. I think that statistically more marriages are said to be successful among the more educated, where the least educated seem to not be marrying at all or more commonly divorce. I’m not sure that it’s education specifically, but actually having some sort of legitimate career goals, as most people jump right into the job market right after finishing college. Because I think that trades work is probably more valuable than college education. A bit of suffering in life tends to make people stick together a bit better. Without a little hardship, people don’t understand how great that they really have it. I can tell you that my ex didn’t have to want for much, and it sounds like Deti’s didn’t either.
Meanwhile, a lot of women who have had to work hard or had some previously *really* difficult circumstances seem to be much happier in their relationships, as demonstrated by posts from some of the ladies around here.
I can speak from personal experience, looking back, and seeing how hard things were a year ago and how great things are for me now. I can’t ask for much more than the things that I have in life now, and I’m thankful every day for how wonderful life is. But it doesn’t have to be such a bad experience if both partners can look at things from a positive perspective and put forth their best efforts to meet in the middle; To actually try to focus on love rather than seeing only the negative and understanding that love is an act that doesn’t happen on its own but rather takes a conscious effort to cultivate and flourish.
From the article: After decades of feminism, Crouse noted that young men are now the ones who set the parameters for intimate relationships, and those increasingly do not include a wedding ring.
“And I know the feminists just yell and scream if you say anything like this, but time was, girls set the cultural morays, the standards, the parameters for intimate activity. The girls were the ones that set those boundaries. And now it’s the guys who do,” Crouse told CNSNews.com.
I have said this before, but no one here seems to agree with me about it. Women are now chasing men, not men chasing women. Even though that has not changed who asks who out. If you can figure this out, it helps explain so many RP topics.
Actually the way I usually put it is: Women now compete for men. It used to be the opposite.
goFigure – I agree. All women I’ve ever been involved with have “chased” me ever since I got out of high school. I don'[t think I’ve ever really pursued a woman for a relationship.
On a related note regarding relationships: Interesting article linked from RoK: http://www.returnofkings.com/150310/fact-millennial-women-cheat-more-than-millennial-men
Millennial women are cheating more than men. We already knew that though. 80/20 applies here.
So did the woman at the well with Christ have 5 legal marriages?
‘So did the woman at the well with Christ have 5 legal marriages?’
Yes…otherwise why would Christ mention the guy she was currently with wasn’t her husband.
Because he wasnt tge 1st guy to bang her and therefore not her legit husband?
Ton – would you think, overall, men want a woman who’s had fewer sex partners than he?
I agree it can be like nailing jello to a wall. I would think that, overall, the lower a woman’s N count, the more choices she will theoretically have.
I know one woman who can’t even begin to add up her N count from when she was younger. but in the middle of all of them, there was one man who was her best lover and with whom she fell in love. he loved her, too, and was willing to marry her as is, kid and all, but she said no. she later married a man who was a virgin before he met her. years later she finally divorced him. she’s way past the wall and still pining for that one man way back when … and longs to be married again b/c she wants a man.
I know that women’s novels would glamorize that story and raise up a Knight in Shining Armor – or a glorified wimp of a sugar daddy, who will gladly take her in his arms and marry her, past and all, and provide all the things her heart desires. and her friends will tell her this is true, too … that her ‘one true love’ is still out there, and she will find him.
I say nothing to her when she talks about it all because I know (1) it’s too late, and (2) she doesn’t have ‘ears to hear.’
Ton – would you think, overall, men want a woman who’s had fewer sex partners than he?
……….
I would agree with that as in men would generally prefer a woman with a lower n count then themselves
The lower her n count the more optioins she has? Again not enough variables. How hot is she? An intensely fat bitch with a n=0 ain’t getting married. An insanely hot chick with a high n count will have lots of options
Remember porn stars get married, one even married a preacher
‘Because he wasnt tge 1st guy to bang her and therefore not her legit husband?’
Or they were just living together/having relations something to that effect and never did a formal marriage ceremony.
Besides in the land of no-fault if the whole taking her virginity = marriage thing were true…then there’s some ladies who could get her first for alimony.
Then I bet something about a formal paper or ceremony would come back up.
@Stephanie: “They shouldn’t have married if she was clearly NOT going to follow him.”
Perhaps you’ve already figured that one out, what with the things you’ve learned about women from the reported experiences of others in the manosphere: that is, she said she would move to Washington State before they married. After they were married … (She was taking care of her elderly mother and living off of mother’s retirement income. Mother died and daughter couldn’t take care of herself financially. Ergo – she needed a husband, quickly.)
@whoever is interested: From a spiritual standpoint, nothing in the Bible says the man is the head of the house, anywhere. It only says he is the head of his wife. There are plenty of places where both husband and wife are charged with bringing up their children in the fear of the Lord. The distinction between “head of wife” and “head of household” is not just a splitting of hairs, but here is not the place to go into detail.
@whoever is interested: re. the meme of “women are commanded to respect their husband and men are commanded to love their wives”. There are verses that support the view that the Bible also expects women to love their husbands. That truth is generally not incorporated into internet memes because it creates a more complicated reality.
@ton: “So did the woman at the well with Christ have 5 legal marriages?” My mind went immediately to that same question. Today we make the distinction between the relationship created by God versus the one created by the state. My question was whether marriages were state-sanctioned at the time of the woman at the well. They were. Marriage in ancient Rome
@whoever is interested: Therefore, what God hath joined together, let not man put assunder.” The relationship created by God, not the state.
Question: Does God join together two people who reject God’s claim on their lives (unbelievers)? Does God join together one who rejects God’s claim on their life with one who accepts God’s claim on their life (unbeliever with believer)? Given that this joining together involves a vow or covenant amongst the three, I think we can argue that God does not (how is one who rejects God’s claim on their life going to join into a covenant with the one they reject – God?). Therefore the argument that you are married to the first person you have sex with, married in a “let not man put assunder” kind of way rather than a state-sanctioned way, is an idea built on an incomplete, or downright false, logic.
@whoever is interested: aside from the discussion about a husband being the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the Church, the Bible does not speak at all about assigned roles; the Bible does not specifically assign roles to males and to females. Many point to the verse re. “he who takes not care of his own is worse than an infidel”. But – that verse was spoken to folks at a time when extended families living together were pretty much the norm. Reading the entire account makes it clear that the conversation was about families caring for their own – and more specifically, widows. It is tempting to take an idea that you believe and then find scriptures you think support that idea. But that is not a legitimate approach to reading the Bible. Rather, asking “what did God actually say” is the more legitimate approach. And God did not say that men are supposed to mow the lawn and women are supposed to cook. Biology might suggest that this is a wise division of labor, but the Bible doesn’t mandate that division in the words that are there. Read it for yourself and see.
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A couple of days ago, daughter and I were discussing the lyrics to Jenny of the Roses. Click on “Show More” under the video for the complete lyrics. I opined that a lot of folks would completely miss the meaning of the last three lines unless they understood the story of the woman at the well
– and here it shows up in this thread. Reference is at Verse 16-17, but the whole thing through Verse 26 is worth reading, particularly in view of some of the questions asked and answered in this thread. Here are those lyrics with the last three lines for those who can’t get to the video:
Let me follow you down
Take pleasure in the rain
Down at the well
Where they all know your name
And I wonder
Same guy as “Jenny”. Derivative, but I like the energy. Domino (Time Will Tell)
oops. My previous post refers to a link on a post that is still in moderation – just in case you see the “Domino” link before you see the “Jenny” link.