This excellent post on another blog got me thinking: Do you have a life plan and are you actively working it? (I highly recommend you click on and read the post before continuing.)
If you don’t have a plan you are working, chances are five, ten, or more years down the road time will have passed but you won’t be further ahead, healthier, more stable financially, or ahead in other categories for it.
However with a plan, and the small daily steps taken toward it, you could easily be far better off in all sorts of ways 1, 5, 10 or more years from now. Like a snowball rolling down a hill, such efforts start small but then can gain momentum, turning that small snowball into a huge one.
One never gets time back, either. And while it’s possible to start working a solid life plan at any age, the person who starts to do so early in life will always be ahead of the one who doesn’t begin until they are in their 40s, for example.
Today, take some time to write down some short (1 year), medium (5 year) and long range (10 years +) goals. If it helps, write how old you will be at each age, and visualize what you want your life (and the life of those you love) to look like then.
As they said failing to plan can be planning to fail.
What do you think? Please share in the comments.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/03/05/oscar-night-thread/
I never had a solid plan in life yet, but I still have time. I’ve tried so many hobbies that could potentially turn into careers, until I landed here (again) on WordPress. I hope I can make a name for myself and maybe even blog for a living, but for now I’m still within my testing phase.
It’s good to have a plan, however I’ll point out two quotes about what you also have to take into consideration with plans.
‘The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.’
Proverbs 16:9
‘Everyone has a plan ’till they get punched in the mouth.’
-Mike Tyson
It is worth considering your plans absolutely honestly, including the under pinning to each goal. I’ve planned, lived by my plans, evolved my plans, changed my plans, to the point where, career-wise, I’ve done a bit of just about everything I have intended. Not the way I intended, not when I intended, but I’ve been able to eventually put a check in most of the boxes.
Outside of work, however, I let a lot of things slide. I didn’t take more personal issues seriously. I figured I’d have time. I look back on my 30s from the point of view of my 50s and realize I was a dumbass for not attacking any and all personal dissatisfaction like it was a deadly enemy. It’s a mistake to ever assume you have all the time in the world. After a certain age, 35 maybe, everything just gets harder. Pushing like mad to become the best you can be before then is a worthy goal. You’ll always find more stuff to fix about yourself and your world as you get older.
it’s well worth getting your head on straight before your own BS gets dug in too deep!
Sorry of topic; but if RPG or any of the women here could explain the mentality of this.
https://www.si.com/swim-daily/2018/02/23/model-search-free-preview-SI-TV
Please tell me what logic is used to go from; never having done any modeling to being filmed trying to get into on of the most prestigious magazine issues. And how does that work with women complaining about men looking at them. They are literally competing for the chance to be looked at. I really can not wrap my head around this.
I can’t even think of the male equivalent of this. What can you get men to compete for when the prize is emotional kibbles?
Another question; if these women’s physical appearance is important to them and something they are trying to get validation or value from. How are they ever going to handle growing old? Ageing, must be worse then death.
Planning is very worthwhile, but always leave room for the consideration that a lot of things are out of your control, then adjust plan as appropriate. For example, if you’re a woman who wants to have kids, keep in mind that the length of time it will take you to get pregnant is highly variable…hence, maybe plan to start earlier.
If you’re an investor, realize that there is no guarantee stock prices will march upwards forever at the growth rate of the last few years.
In career planning, bear in mind that the fields that are smoking hot today will not necessarily be smoking hot (or even lukewam) in 10 or 15 years.
I believe it was Eisenhower who said that ‘plans are useless but planning is indispensable.’
Is fuck bitches, get money considered planning?
I believe it was Eisenhower who said that ‘plans are useless but planning is indispensable.’
…….
No plan surrives contact with the enemy
and
If your attack is going well, your being ambushed
“If your attack is going well, your being ambushed”
+++++
Go Figure — I’ve known a good number of women who made a living that was partly or mostly based on their looks. Most were remarkably good at preserving those looks over time, so they got well into their forties or even beyond while still looking “elegant.” But looking good was their business. It was work. They were professionals at it.
It’s different, more of a problem, for a beautiful young girl who is not a professional in a professional environment without a variety of outlets to fund and support her beauty. The pretty girl at the Dairy Queen is likely to stumble from boyfriend to boyfriend like she’s on a roller coaster and end up single with a kid and eating too many carbs. I’m guessing that for the non pro in a non pro environment it is, as you were suggesting, a disaster.
The young pro will start off waiting tables at a mid level bar and learning how to be fast, gracious and efficient. She’ll then move to a fancy restaurant ($300 in tips a night) or top catering service (this is the new part time employment for actors), move to modeling (sometimes getting paid to show up at parties and look good), then acting, then sometimes high end sales (like real estate), and finally find a well to do husband. A few of the real sharks become movers and shakers in the entertainment business.
It is very common in LALA land for the semi successful starlet of 20 years ago to have married a well established movie executive or agent, it’s virtually considered a career move and completely unquestioned. She then does what slowly fading beauties have done since strong men got rich because they could guard grain, she learns how to entertain, be a hostess, and impress other rich men and their once-upon-a-time ingenue wives. If she’s smart she gathers intelligence for her husband and makes sure he has an exit strategy into politics or something of the sort. I think the path from young to old for a pro might be more traditional than many would think just because the rules haven’t changed much. For sure they don’t all get it figured out, but many do. Even those that crash and burn generally knew the way things work, they just couldn’t keep their head on straight long enough to find a guy who could afford the bills from the Betty Ford Clinic.
There is actually MORE myth about the power of youth and beauty in Hollywood than is actually real. Actresses have long pouted about how they have to be young to get jobs and how once they pass their sell by dates they are out of luck. A quick scan of the ages of many top stars and even just solid working professionals shows that this isn’t really true, many are in their 30s and 40s, some in their 50s. What IS true is they they don’t get work just because they are new on the scene (which happens to a certain extent) and, much more importantly, there just aren’t nearly as many parts for women as for men. Their problem is a screenwriting and green-lighting problem but they blame it on age for some masochistic reason.
Very true, I should elaborate, the plan will morph and shift with time, and circumstance, but even heading toward a plan, forward movement, momentum is better than doing nothing. So yes true the original plan not turn out or be what happens or even be a success, but effort is better than non. Plans may even fail multiple times but many have found success by carrying on past failure, until they win! 🙂 IMHO.
Absolutely agreed Alan, I see that more w every passing year.
@ho figure I will look in a bit and ponder this….
Another example of early and small consistent steps is better is health. If someone is active and eats (mostly) well from their 20s, they maintain and it’s a habit. If someone doesn’t have a plan until they lose their health, it’s considerable effort then to dig out and in some cases the damage done can only be coped w not reversed. A good plan vs no plan (or a bad plan that seems like no plan). Maybe some get lucky like my grandpa, live hard and fast, die chopping wood at 80 wo a single day in hospital prior. But one can’t count on that (I hope I inherited the best parts of that!)
By best parts I mean that goal was also fairly notorious and had lots of self destructive behaviors that I guess bc of genes or stubbornness never destructed him. So yeah it was luck (and maybe chopping wood and other farm “exercise”) but luck is not a plan.
Gpa not goal
I have to qualify that while I’ve known a lot of actresses, some who have been models, I’ve known very few who were models only. At a guess many of the models-only crowd treat it the same way a cheerleader will, a thing they used to do that got them a lot of attention. Once they stop, it’s just something they used to do. A lot of them are nuts anyway so it’s hard to tell if their looks made them that way. One I knew, who had the looks to have kept it up well into her 30s, used to say, “That last five pounds, nothing in the world is worth the effort to do that anymore.” Today she’s a mom, not married but in a long term relationship with the dad, and a currency trader. I suspect that few could find the extra five pounds on her even in a Sports Illustrated outfit but they do show on camera, a situation where you are quickly replaced if you can’t be photographed from any angle.
It may be that the pros also benefit from meeting a lot of very dynamic often risk taking (in the business sense) guys who have already proved themselves and are settled into some long term success. That’s not nearly as challenging as my example of the Dairy Queen waitress who will meet the high school or cow college football player. He’s a guy who might be able to prove he’s an Alpha for two years or so but then will have to transition to an insurance agent. If women actually can understand TRP this is where the rubber meets the road. Know your liabilities and deal with them or don’t make the mistake of committing to the wrong man.
@ Alan that is very interesting re actresses and models and what you have seen from the inside. that makes complete sense how a pro would literally view enhancing, preserving, and protecting her looks “her job” and would spend considerable time, money, and energy doing so. Plus have access to the info and top tools. It’s got to be a whole other level of “competition” too when everyone is a 10 and then it’s just splitting hairs as far as “prettiest.” That must be intense. Same for models and the last five pounds. I do know some “everyday” women who either by genes plus lifestyle have aged very well, but that’s in comparison to average not in comparison to what you describe. And also in many cases they were not the prettiest to start with but grew into it while the prettiest gal in their class like the Dairy Queen gal) may peak at 19 and go down from there.
I have also noted a correlation between unusually attractive and mental stuff, but like you say hard to tell if their looks created that or if it was natural selection, their whole clan is nutty but survived bc they were all also super attractive.
Very interesting that you have seen this up close like that. I always enjoy your Hollywood insights! So far from the world I live in! The closest I know to that is the high society ladies of the area who do the local philanthropy circuit. They all work hard on their looks too, as I am sure their men are hypergamy targets and from what I know most have mistresses as well, but it’s probably amateur even so compared to the LA level of that world!
Thanks for the input Alan.
I understand what you are saying, but it still seems asinine.
Luckily the idea of ‘most prettiest’ doesn’t get you hired for the majority of parts, a producer wants someone interesting to look at but that’s only a part of it. Several categories of models are often more “striking” that beautiful … though, weirdly, there’s competition between those with odd looks too. I remember when I was briefly working in advertising coming into a room of elegant middle aged women who all had bizarrely long necks … a jewelry commercial? It wasn’t my shoot so I’ll never know.
The idea of competition gets the best of even the smartest of actors, and many are really quite sharp … though often hamstrung by the constant working requirement to broadcast their emotions. It’s why I tend to go on about how the men are rarely true Alpha types. You can’t be a believable Alpha if you’re panicked about getting a zit on your forehead!
There’s competition and conformity, I can’t tell you how many auditions I’ve been in where, say, a blond would walk into a waiting room full of brunettes and decide she doesn’t have a chance because “they must not be looking for her type.” Insecurity not allowing her to see that she has the advantage of standing out from the crowd. Most of the time they should just trust that the people who called them in know what they are up to, and realize that the people who reject you today for one thing will call you again because they remember your work from previous auditions. Many producers and directors have actors they have been hoping to hire across many shows, unfortunately some have favorites that they never succeed in hiring. I had one like that, she finally gave up, became a big time reality show producer, and made more money than all of the people I worked with put together!
I’m glad that’s all behind me but it was never a dull moment for quite a few years!
Another useful post this could be
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2017/04/25/young-blokes-where-to-start/
They are literally competing for the chance to be looked at
Perhaps the real #MeToo this is
Yoda: “Perhaps the real #MeToo this is”
Laughter, laughter, laughter. Oh God, I wish I’d noticed that/said that first!
Use to be I lived in one of the super of the super zip codes
Professionally good lookimg women were rather common. Some of them dudes would spend more on their wife’s horse hobby then most super zip codes could imagine, private planes were common, others would lease jets to fly in, millions of dollars in vintage cars in one garage etc etc, one guy put his side piece up in a 500k condo, plus the bwm and what not.
None of them were married to ugly chicks and the professionally good looking chicks created their own cottage industry. Plastic surgeons, spas, personal trainers, personal stylists etc etc,
Ton: “None of them were married to ugly chicks and the professionally good looking chicks created their own cottage industry. Plastic surgeons, spas, personal trainers, personal stylists etc etc,”
Even when you see it, it can be hard to imagine how many gradients of wealth there really are. I’m always taken aback and I’ve lived on the edges of it on and off a fair part of my life. The wild part are the ones who are doing very well but spending it as fast as they made it. Crazy when you’ve been around long enough to see the fiery crash when one of those people loses a job or goes through a divorce. You can hardly believe they were so stupid not to be hiding a good deal of it away. There’s a lot of that ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ especially when it comes to houses and over-educating kids — I’ve no problem with education but get a degree in something that earns money or don’t waste it on a top school, parents and kids expend less due-diligence on college than they do buying a refrigerator!
In entertainment there’s a whole industry built around getting people to spend like it’s going out of style. Agents and managers, in particular, would always prefer their highest priced clients be nearly broke. That way the client will take whatever the agent points them at with no argument and the agent can quickly (the only thing they care about) get their 10%. Investment counselors are also known for constantly trying to get their clients to change investments so they can make more money managing the shift. Fees and taxes can really hurt in a situation like that. Smart isn’t moving it around trying to make a killing, smart is putting it somewhere pretty good and forgetting you have it for 20 years.
Slightly crude language but the best writeup of the current state that I have read in ages.
http://blog.aaronsleazy.com/index.php/2018/03/04/with-women-your-reward-for-success-is-working-harder-and-paying-more/
The wealthy I am use to dealing with would look down on most garish displays of wealth.
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/03/08/dancing-monkey/
Ton: “The wealthy I am use to dealing with would look down on most garish displays of wealth.”
That’s pretty typical of old, serious, money. Or just good taste!
Where are all the good men?
https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/my-quest-for-instagram-stardom-left-me-in-financial-ruin/
Finding a woman that is nothing like you.
That’s pretty typical of old, serious, money. Or just good taste!
…….
Legit plus I think how the money is earned counts. In the old money circles, you have folks who are fucking loaded just because, and guys who are doing ok all under one one family
But even is new rich don’t really blow it like crazy. Which I think comes down to how the money is made. Easy come, easy go, easy money etc vs building buniess from nothing, having to deal with ecconmic up turns and down turns, sometimes across generations. Gives you a different take on things
Building the future, one baby at a time
‘Building the future, one baby at a time’
Why do I get the feeling this is a ‘the father was unavailable for comment’ situation?
Ton: “easy money etc vs building buniess from nothing”
Building it and keeping it going for generations … that’s not something you hear much about anymore. Too many give in to the temptation to sell stock, diluting ownership and control or allow the family members to each make off with a piece of the whole, an equally destructive path. The generations following the founder have to be instructed how to maintain the integrity of the operation, something narcissistic founders often decline to do these days just as their children decline to learn. Like marriage, these businesses were survival mechanisms but now younger generations, sure of their own survival and uncaring of those to follow, take their futures for granted.
I dislike the idea of high estate and income taxes to my core but back when people had to hide their wealth in their businesses to avoid the IRS it’s possible they thought of this sort of stuff, a family dynasty with the business as its castle, more than now.
Tldr
TFMs point is because of hypergamy a man cannot be vulnerable, let out his fears, frustrations because if he does she will subconciously see it as weakness and lower attraction. All guys instinctively know this and learn to control their emotions before puberty.
This is not healthy. Everyone needs release. TFM says and I agree, in the old days there were guy spaces where male friends let it out. Sports. Mens clubs, the quiet bar.
Now those places of release are gone.
And I dont mean little shit. Your wife leaves, your dad dies, your buddie from the war suicides. Big shit.
Where can two best friends go now to let it out? Buddies place? His mancave in tne basement?
This is why guys hunt, fish, roadtrip. Partially to be alone, away from women to talk shit out.
Thoughts?
Oh forgot the warning. VULGARITY WARNING
TFM is very CRASS.
Sorry Bloom.
‘Thoughts?’
Yes that was often the point. Being in a place to talk about real stuff without having women get offended by it or interjecting their views which have nothing to do with it.
Im just confused by the demand for women safe spaces but one or two for men? Never!
@ Alan I have heard said and seen “Wealth lasts three generations.” The first builds, the second at least saw the effort and work, the third squanders. Maybe not always, but too often. And perhaps it’s good, one’s squandering is another’s opportunity, keeps cards in play? Not that it is any comfort to those who built I am sure…
But I have also seen what Ton describes, many I know who are very wealthy one would not know, those who look wealthy are living on a house of cards.
You are good Horseman. Crass has its place when instructive. You’d be surprised some of the stuff I read surfing about w insomnia, like hooker diaries or what not. (I have even written posts on them! Lol.) Worlds I would never know otherwise but can actually round out my myoptic worldview.
When men try to have a “men’s rights” gathering, that gets shut down right quick. Several years back I offered my property in just such a case. Probably best they choose the VFW hall instead, but at the time I was thinking, “ Imagine if there were such threats against a women’s rights assembly?” And I realized then, it’s not about equality at all…
I think it is very sad if most women really can’t take their man showing vulnerability. It is horrible if the other one always needs to control emotions.
I think that video is something more women should listen.
Rosalie,
I agree completely. A man needs a woman that can be a partner not another child.
RPG: :“Wealth lasts three generations.” The first builds, the second at least saw the effort and work, the third squanders.”
You see families that historically have been good at building a survival mechanisms, but there has to be a deep sense of tradition that moves from generation to generation and is taken very seriously. Old Aristocracy/Nobility, families that risked being picked off by the neighboring “noble” if they dropped their guard, maintained this for thousands of years. They taught the younger generations, protected their peasants/workers/retainers, and defended their lands and industries. Many of the dramatic moments in European history occurred when, as you suggest, a family temporarily or permanently relaxed and allowed a generation to slip away into corruption.
Some French friends of mine, a Count with family land (not much larger than a modest ranching operation) and a village of about 40 people who were descendants of the people who had worked their land for probably 500 years, survived WWII by falling back on their old way of life. Growing their own crops, and raising their own animals. The Countess, her husband was an army officer and died on the 3d day of the German invasion, spent her nights spinning wool on a 100 year old wheel they dug out of the attic. She also brokered their goods on the black market and smuggled in what they needed. She made deals with Germans who came from similar backgrounds and, as long as she wasn’t an obvious threat knew the game … I’m betting that there were French and English who cut individual German families some slack after the war for similar reasons. The vague connections between their class and families were much older than their countries. The house and land were sold in the ’60s but I have no doubt that in times of trouble that her family and the people of that village (where some of the family modestly lived today) would do exactly the same thing. My guess is they’d been doing it since the time of the Romans.
In our culture, especially after WWII, we taught everyone that that sort of life was unnecessary, that everything was stable and good and you could rely on the local government and then the national government … and now there are people who are trying to extend that myth of potential dependence to international organizations. Well, maybe … it’s only been 80 years or so, that’s not long enough to even test the theory even once. I’m guessing that there are still people in … well, I’m going to say Appalachia so that people who don’t live in communities with deep family ties get it but the phenomena is much more widely spread than that. The Mafia is a fierce and dysfunctional version of those ancient systems.
As I said, if they haven’t lost their way very recently, my French friends have been organizing themselves to survive for so long that they barely even know they are doing it any longer. I don’t come from that sort of background but my family had a touch of it for a moment and I’ve tried to do what I can to hold on to as much as possible.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/03/10/sotu-there-are-no-good-men-left-they-are-all-taken/
‘I think it is very sad if most women really can’t take their man showing vulnerability. It is horrible if the other one always needs to control emotions.’
But it’s often the results that happens when a woman sees her man showing vulnerability…they told us they want men to emote, but when they do they think ‘weakness’, ‘flee’, ‘ewwwwwwwww’, ‘bad feelz’. Perhaps if women especially married woman stuck it through…this wouldn’t be the case. However women are as big of wusses as most men are now.
Earl: “But it’s often the results that happens when a woman sees her man showing vulnerability…they told us they want men to emote, but when they do they think ‘weakness’, ‘flee’, ‘ewwwwwwwww’, ‘bad feelz’. Perhaps if women especially married woman stuck it through…this wouldn’t be the case.”
I think this is too logical a process. Men are supposed to be the uttermost defenders, earners, builders, rational and strong … AND they are supposed to be vulnerable. Once you have the one, to an undoubted extent (not sure if that is totally possible) then vulnerability is possible and allowed. As long as emerges in exactly the way the woman wants it. She wants to be protected AND nurture but won’t sell out the one for the other.
Both men and women really want everything on earth … but men know that they can’t have it all at once. I’ve always joked that if you can imagine all conditions simultaneously then you can imagine being in a woman’s mind. This is because it’s emotional, not rational.
Few gals are so unfair as to think all this sort of thing through and THEN impose insane requirements. It’s just built in. And it seems to be built in more now that the culture pumps up the intolerance of the opposite sex and a sense of entitlement (to men’s emotions perfectly presented so that they will make women feel closer while still knowing their man is strong in this case) to whatever a person narcissisticly desires. This sort of expectation is everywhere today in men and women: look at college campuses and the crazy insistence that previous generations should have delivered utopia … like, 15 minutes ago. Wild!
We’ve touched on the vulnerable yet strong thing before, but I should do a post on that.
Good description of the female mind. I have one and trust me, I know that exact thing you are describing! It must have some biological/functional purpose but it can also be a looping jumbled run on sentence, too!
The really wealthy families stay that way. They created the tax code and all the other laws to help ensure it. Large endowments to foundations, and to colleges/ prep schools etc with the right soical/ cultural standing, make sure the kids get a quality education for free. Also keeps them in contact with the right people. Which counts for more then the book learning.
The foundations hire those kids and pay them 6 figures to not do much. Plus they have whatever regular income they pull in with their free teir 1 education. Sometimes they do really well with those jobs, some times they dont’t but the fondation/ chairty etc jobs make sure they have at least an upper middle class income. Plus they get on boards, which doesn’t require much of their time but does pay them for their time.
The foundations own high end properties all over the world, in places folks like to vacation at, family members get to stay in them free for 2 weeks (or whatever ) for free.
To the public eye it looks like they are doing better then ok but that’s because the perks are hard to see. Soooo…… They dont have college debt. They get 100k a year just for breathing. Some other tier one family puts them on the board of one of their foundations/ endowment/ charity etc and they make another 45k a year by being on 3 boards, and making certain meetings every fiscal quarter. Their regular job pays pretty damn well but not insanely so… call it 250k. They go to insanely beautiful/ high end vacation spots 8 weeks out of the year and only pay airfare and meals vs the 20k a week hotel bill, no need to save up and pay for the kids schooling if they are close enough to the blood line ….. next thing you know their upper middle class life style is actually low end tier 1 wealthy without having to knock back insane money.
And that’s just what I have put together by obsevartion and a little common sense skull sweet. I am fair certain it adds up to more money the what I have put together.
Next teir of wealthy is the wealthy for the 3-4 generation variety. Lots of reasons why it last 3-4 generations but mostly because they can’t do what the top tier wealthy do and people want to leave their kids equal shares, which diminishes the pool of money quickly. The decendants with talent and drive will get that branch of the family back to the pinnacle of tier 2 wealth, while other branches will squander the money, wither away and die out. I am in the low end of this catagoery but I don’t believe in dumbshit like equality. My oldest son will inherit the bulk of what I leave behind.
After that tier is the more common stuff that keeps the umc the umc. Which generationally seems like a sweet spot because from what I have seen, the kids don’t really fall out of it unless its a daughter who does dumb shit like becomes a teacher and marries a teacher. Plus, because of their numbers, they get to do a lot of political shit that keeps the umc going, usually, completely unaware they are playing a blind man’s version of what the top tier wealthy do
think this is too logical a process. Men are supposed to be the uttermost defenders, earners, builders, rational and strong …
………
Tingles are created by masculine traits that speak survival skills right to the vagina.
Man +vulnerable =bitch = poor long term prospects
This shit is occurring at the lizard brain level
RPG: “We’ve touched on the vulnerable yet strong thing before”
Yeah, it seems to me that every woman wants both to be protected and to nurture … except nurture is what you do for kids. The drive is there to nurture anyone who needs it, and if a man needs it she may follow that first impulse, but the follow up is a creeping feeling of “this is what I’m supposed to do for a child.” I don’t have much doubt that, if you truly establish yourself as “her Alpha” you’ll get one episode of nurturing for free, if it’s over something that she believes is serious and if you don’t act like a bitch when you’re going through it.
That said, there is a kind of guy who is wild and uncontrollable, especially in ways that make him the center of social attention; the rebellious life of the party, who repeatedly crashes and burns and has a gal there to pick him up and dust him of or dry him out.
These guys, IF they stay with the same woman, tend to follow the nurturing up with a good deal of asshole behavior toward their savior, thus giving her lots of drama and causing traumatic bonding. In my interpretation abuse always has both a positive AND negative aspect which causes the abused person to feel, even if they won’t admit it to themselves, like it’s their fault … because, after the first iteration, it IS. Traumatic bonding is a very powerful tool, to the point where interrogators and deprogramers use it to lock targets into their frame.
Anyway, what these “damaged rebels” are selling at an unconscious level seems to be: Rebel = outsider, out of clan DNA. Rebel = Faux Alpha at least to the point of defying convention. Rebel = Center of Attention or social proof of a sort. Damaged = Needing help, nurturing, Florence Nightingale syndrome, winning an otherwise unattainable man by doing what others won’t do for him. Damaged = Drama, acts like a A-hole and, here’s the important part, it short circuits the downside of the nurturing aspect by throwing it in her face before she can get too far into feeling he’s a child and losing respect. Now he’s the wild and unpredictable rebel again.
I’m just making that all up but if I had to write it into a book or movie, that’s what I would fall back on if I had to make my job make sense to me intellectually, though that is not always required. Even if it isn’t 100% psychologically correct, I’m betting I could fool you if you just watched or read the resulting scene, so I’m guessing I’m pretty close. The real trick is to make it seem like it’s happening, as Ton says: “at lizard brain level.”
“‘I think it is very sad if most women really can’t take their man showing vulnerability. It is horrible if the other one always needs to control emotions.’”
I do think it’s important for a wife to be able to see her husband being vulnerable, and not view him as weak from it. I mean I don’t think a life-long marriage would be successful if women weren’t capable to “being there” for their men when they need them during emotionally trying times.
I think I’ve read somewhere in the manosphere that the point is not that men can’t be vulnerable with their wives, but that it’s not what makes them *attractive* to women. But there’s no way a married couple will be able to get through life’s ups and downs without the wife being able to “handle” him not being 100% every moment of every year. There will be bad times or hard times or job losses or missed promotions or child deaths, parent deaths, depression, etc. and a good wife needs to be able to handle that and support him.
I do think it’s important for a wife to be able to see her husband being vulnerable, and not view him as weak from it
………
I think it’s important for women to breath under water
Depends on the event and how it effects here. If a man is distraught aboutbloosing his job her vagina will dry up because he is reacting in a week manner about something that directly impacts the quality and concert of her life.
If he is distraught over the, Lord forbid, death of their child. Her vagina will dry up because he is being a selfish jerk and grieving vs tending to her
If he is distraught over the death of a friend she didn’t particularly like…. Well that doesn’t impact her survival any so it’s good to go.
—————–
It’s a man’s job to control his emotions. Nothing horrible about it. Men, family, platoons, tribes etc surrive because of the stoic and rational responses of men. Bouts of anger work because anger is a display of strength women and intellectlly underdeveloped others can understand, respect etc but anger doesn’t work much pass the individual level.
This whole vulnerable thing, who should be, who shouldn’t be, when they should be, etc, started after WWII and really got going in the 1970s when counter culture fought back against straight or square culture. Everything was about feelings, going with your gut and, most importantly, breaking down interpersonal barriers. There were workshops and cults based on this everywhere. It was a circus that has slowed but not ended.
10% of it probably wasn’t a bad idea, but it’s become ridiculous. Shrinks used to promote the idea of opening up and getting others to do the same. Without admitting the fact that they are now tacking in the opposite direction, they now promote “healthy boundaries.”
My guess is that no one really wants to know that much more about other people’s inner lives. But we wear it all on our sleeves today and look; society is coming apart. Not because we really have serious differences, we all want the same things. We’re freaking out because we hate the path that others would take to the same goals we covet. They are evil because we know their innermost thoughts. It’s the reason for Twitter Rage. We are doing it (hopefully in a more healthy way) right here and now!
If a guy does keep his feelings to himself, the few times he does let go have meaning and probably would create a bonding effect. But we have to look at the historical context. An episode of out of control emotion is probably okay after you bust a successful farm out of the virgin prairie. Stand down your enemies to defend your family. Grit you teeth for 3 months after your finger was torn off in the gears of some machine with only booze for an analgesic. There’s a point where you’re trusted and have earned it.
That said, many people are much better when in real danger, facing real consequences, than the pissy complications that frustrate our lives these days. When the future is the next fifteen minutes people tend to settle in and take care of business. Too much of modern life has us paralyzed by the length of the futures we are looking into. “Will the boss like this proposal?” “Will doing the right thing mean my job?” “Will this investment hurt me over ten years?” That stuff is a lot harder to deal with than, “What do I do in the midst of a hurricane when the garage door won’t open and we need to evacuate?” You rip the mechanism down and force the damn thing. You get a freaking axe. You back the car through the door. Psychologically we were built for “damn the torpedoes” not, “if this and then this and then this complicated and subtle thing happen then these other issues will screw up my life.”
Men get blamed for anger, especially by women, but I think Ton is right; they secretly (even to themselves) find it an acceptable emotion because it contains an aspect of strength.
AlanK… I’ve been married over 10 years now, so I’ve seen my husband go through a lot of stuff, and you’re right, he doesn’t usually show emotions very much, so when he does rarely, or when he is going through a time of injury or whatnot, it’s easy for me to not view it as a weakness.
Again, I think the point that most of the red pill community agrees with (in the past at least maybe not anymore), is that a man, even a husband the wife is attracted to, is not *more attractive* or *attractive* when he is showing that vulnerability. But it’s usually been accepted years ago in the red pill community that good wives are able to handle those moments and not view it as weakness or leave him.
I mean, with his job he produces more testosterone than a regular desk-job man. So even his sweat is supposed to be scientifically more pleasing to females (ME!!!!) than a man with lower T would to his wife.
It’s all in perspective.
This was a post I just wrote this morning about him raising our sons to be masculine – something I know without a doubt would not be possible on my own:
http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2018/03/11/raising-masculine-sons/
“My guess is that no one really wants to know that much more about other people’s inner lives. But we wear it all on our sleeves today and look; society is coming apart. Not because we really have serious differences, we all want the same things. We’re freaking out because we hate the path that others would take to the same goals we covet. They are evil because we know their innermost thoughts. It’s the reason for Twitter Rage.”
Yes I was just talking with some female family members about this last week. Society used to have a sense of boundaries where it just wasn’t appropriate to say certain things that showed you were in a scarcity or “loser” mentality. Whereas now it’s glorified, and it does come down to envy, from what we thought.
An example I used with my family members was that every time I have a baby now and lose the weight easily right away, there is always someone or even multiple people who try to shame me for it and this last time, even told me I was a “bad example to other moms!” For staying fit and remaining very fit after having a baby!
In the old days, someone with that kind of ugliness inside them would have to keep it to themselves (or to gossip groups) but it was known and realized they were just envious and coming from a “loser” mentality. The hard work behind stuff was actually praised and acknowledged and even admired back then, but now with the “Twitter rage” like you mentioned and the anonymity of the internet, people with a loser mentality feel entitled to splurge their toxic, covetous feelings all over people who are more successful than them. I don’t even think they realize it makes them look like losers, but they don’t feel the shame for thinking that way that I think was more prominent back then.
In other words, they want the end results of what success looks like – be it financial, a bigger house, behaved white kids who excel in school, or a rocking post-baby bod, but they REALLY don’t want to acknowledge how much work and self-discipline all those things take.
hence… it’s an envy issue.
‘ I’ve always joked that if you can imagine all conditions simultaneously then you can imagine being in a woman’s mind. This is because it’s emotional, not rational. ‘
Makes sense.
‘Yeah, it seems to me that every woman wants both to be protected and to nurture … except nurture is what you do for kids.’
Bingo. A husband already has a mother and his wife isn’t it.
The crab bucket mentality is real and is loud nowadays.
I’ll say it again…often a woman’s biggest enemy is their friends.
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/03/12/a-special-kind-of-crazy/
Ton is absolutely correct in his examples.
As one of Rollos iron rules
‘A woman can never love a man as he wants to be loved.”
I.e. a safe place he can let down the protector, builder, provider and show emotion other than rightious anger as in grief, loss, etc. The way a man wants to be loved is to be accepted as he is, all of him.
Which is COMPLETE FANTASY!!
As in it has never happened in tnbe history of the universe!!!
The one thing many men want inside (even Ton, ie to grieve for a buddy.) Want but know we can never ever show so we repress it as he says.
So Stoicism becomes our norm.
But it also takes away one of the key traits of a woman that could otherwise be useful; an emotional support, an understanding.
You do it so easily for each other, it could be one of your most useful skills for a man.
But you horde it, you miserly keep it, you are repulsed by the need for it.
And so we have no use for it. Because you demand we have no use for it.
After the first girl summers him, every guy by say 20 will never rely on, truly depend on, any woman ever again.
What could be your greatest power, empathy which does not fade like beauty, you withhold.
To your own detriment.
Summering a guy. This
At exactly 59 seconds. The look on his face
“Know what sucks? Realizing that everything you believed in is complete bullshit!!”
Every guy can name the girl, time, place, temperature, weather of this exact moment in his life. And he is never the same again.
The instant the Stoic is born.
What we dont get, noit that we any longer give a fuck…
You will support, listen to, commune even with your frienemies on a constant basis.
But men….?
Yes Steph my wife was good when I was canned from a 100k job at 54.
I raged, I was sad, etc. And she was good, still is.
But after about three days to a week I saw the look in her understanding eyes when I ranted about it.
So I Shut Up About It!!
Almost a year later it still hurts, the injustice, etc.
Have I started a new life? Yes. Have I manned up? Yes.
Does it Still Fucking Hurt!! Yes
But after that first week I will never ever raise it again.
Because I saw the “yes yes get over it” flicker in her eyes.
She didnt mean to, doesnt even realize
But I saw it
And did what Men do…Carry On.
But inside is that what I want, need, crave??
I will never ever ever tell any woman….any woman.
And no man ever will.
mgtowhorseman,
I agree with so much of what you say and I disagree with it also. Support from a woman is complicated for a man. You say:
my wife was good when I was canned from a 100k job at 54.
I raged, I was sad, etc. And she was good, still is.
But after about three days to a week I saw the look in her understanding eyes when I ranted about it.
So I Shut Up About It!!
When something similar happened with me and my wife. I saw something similar in my wife. I saw that she got tired of me expressing myself.
That is when I took a couple of days to myself and thought about it. Then I went back to my wife and said something along the lines of:
“You are my wife, nobody else is going to listen to my complaints and frustrations, but you agreed to be my wife so you agreed to listen whether or not you like it.
So, you need to improve your listening skills. You should learn about what makes a good listener and practice active listening. You can improve your abilities as a partner or you can get frustrated with me or you can take a hike, but as long as you are my wife, I will express myself to you.”
My wife decided to improve herself and work on her listening skills.
Now I would not necessarily suggest any other man follow my example. I did this because the benefits outweighed the costs for me. Why is that? Because my primary love language is quality time, more specifically quite time were I can really express myself. So for me being alone is better than being with someone and not being able to express my inner self.
Horseman: “Every guy can name the girl, time, place, temperature, weather of this exact moment in his life. And he is never the same again.”
It’s such a $h*t discovery. But it’s like a rite of passage to adulthood. And, though you never realize it at the time, it is the realization that you are a man talking to a woman who sees you as a Man. Before that there was your mother, with whom you practiced that dependent relationship since birth and “girls” who may have been sweet on you but weren’t ready to accept you as a man. After that moment you are an adult. That’s hard but maybe not as hard as becoming an adult Sioux male by going through the Sundance ritual or something of the sort.
The problem is that a young Sioux knows the Sundance is coming. He spends his life preparing for it. He knows he will be, rightfully, be accepted by men as an equal when it is over. It is seen as a hard thing but a good thing, the transition into adulthood.
Obviously, we still have these rites of passage but we no longer do anything to prepare people for them and we no longer reward people for surviving them. We don’t even tell people they are coming. In our love for childhood and adolescence, in our insane perpetuation of those states, we destroy ourselves and create a far lonelier world. This realization about the nature of female affection sucks but if we had traditions that prepared us for it, rewarded us for accepting it, heck even just warned us it was coming, being a modern man wouldn’t be so confusing.
I remember that moment in my life but, big mistake, I didn’t take it seriously enough or truly learn from it. I just thought “bitch” and told her she didn’t understand and that it was pretty unfair given the comfort she was continually getting from me. It blew over, the relationship continued, and I didn’t realize that I’d handled it pretty well. It took a more unfortunate years to get through to me what was going on. The trouble is a young man is exposed to a lot of examples of selfish or thoughtless girls and this can get lost in the shuffle. The later comprehension comes the worse it is … or the stupider you feel and the more resentful you are.
Do adult children return that need for emotional support? I don’t have any but I’m guessing daughters care for their fathers. Certainly I cared for my father in the rough months when he was dying, he was pretty stoic, as was I, but we still shared a lot of pretty emotional moments. Perhaps it’s an argument for the perpetuation of another “outdated” tradition, multi generational families.
Before that there was your mother, with whom you practiced that dependent relationship since birth
…….
Nothing like that in my childhood which might be part of why I mange women well
“The way a man wants to be loved is to be accepted as he is, all of him.
Which is COMPLETE FANTASY!!”
I’m sorry you feel this way. In our marriage, it is not a fantasy. But then I had a book my mother gave me as a preteen that outright stated that men needed this most – to be accepted at face value and sympathetic understanding.
That book was filled with many examples of amazing marriages throughout history… ones where the man was so in love because his wife loved him so well, that he would do amazing things for her.
The Taj Mahal itself was built by the Indian fuler Shah Jahan… for his favorite wife (yes he played favorites 😉 ) Mumtaz-i-Mahal. She died at the birth of her 14th child to him. Even though he had other wives, he loved her so much that he wanted to show honor only to her and not any of the other wives he had.
Been married 10 years and I just had a moment like that a month ago, when my husband took me out to just outside our city, almost in the country, up on a hilltop with an incredible view, and surprised me with his plans to build a 5-bedroom, 3,000+ sq ft home that looks like a castle! I don’t think I truly deserve (or need!!!) a house like that, and I tried a little to get him not to want that, but he insisted 🙂
I do think that kind of love can exist between a husband and his wife where he would do things like create the Taj Mahal for her if he could. And it’s extremely humbling and romantic that men can love that deeply.
Stephanie – do you realize that, with the example of the Taj Mahal and your husband’s plans for a house, you are equating the size of a man’s love with how much money he spends on the object of his affection? The more money spent, the larger must be his love. Isn’t that the kind of cliche that the manosphere objects to (rhetorical)?
I’m guessing you don’t measure the size of a woman’s love for the object of her affection in the same way.
It is always tempting to label as “love” something that is merely appreciation. (And let’s don’t undestimate the value of appreciation when it is shown.)
Shakespeare has something to say about some of the larger points made in this thread.
Shakespear’s Sonnet 116