Tags
affair, affairs, break up, breakup, breakups, cheating, co-parenting, custody, divorce, frivorce, red pill, single parenting
In a previous post we discussed a couple with a young child at risk of divorce due to the wife’s Facebook affair(s?)
Much insightful advice was given for handling such a situation. I passed this info onto the husband’s parents and shared it had come from others who had been in their son’s shoes.
They especially liked the advice offered by Deti, and said they had seen a friend’s son do just that and had it work out for him very well.
The question they had, and requested I put to all of you for insight, was how to deliver this info to their son who does not seem to want to talk to his parents, or anyone, about what’s happening.
He seems to want to believe “it’s all fine” and “they are getting along better than ever” despite the fact that mutual friends say his wife is not only continuing to meet up with her Facebook friend, but takes their young daughter along on her trysts. These friends have seen photos of her and the child and the guy since this all came to light.
The son apparently is still defending his wife, and believing her cries that “everyone is picking on her” and “his family doesn’t like her.” They also worry it may be a pride thing, not wanting to admit the warnings of friends and family about his prospective bride were on track.
So I said I would ask. What approach would you take toward delivering some red pill advice to this young husband and father in a way he may be able to hear, and hopefully act upon, to protect himself and his young daughter from years of potential post-divorce drama-fueled toxic chain yanking ahead?
Please share in the comments any words of wisdom, advice, strategy, or links to blogs or websites that you feel may help.
(If you did not read the original post and comments, click on the link to the post in the first sentence above to get the backstory.)
RPG,
If she is play these kind of tricks while they are still married, it will be all the worse once they divorce. My guess is that she will move and play the parental alienation game.
Could be Fuzzie, that would be even worse
from the way she’s described I would not doubt mom is some form of cluster personality disorders. If so a nightmare to have as a parent, much less a primary or sole parent 
If they split I hope he gets custody.
If you know him personally, it may help for him to hear about shrink4men.com and Tara Palmatier. They do have a forum, but I haven’t read any of it.
@ Fuzzie I do not know him personally. But I can pass the links along to his parents.
In the meanwhile, I did double check and Tara still has her site up. If you think she has borderline personality disorder, that is the best place for him that I know of and the forum is free.
Deti, BV … AND Ton should all consider Bloom’s offer to ghost write your books 🙂
Everyone needs to watch this!!
Define YOUR success and put in the Work
Bloom
My decision re my Mrs?
The tenacity, willingness to change, the value of family…..Yes.
But only for her and one other woman (sister in law) that I know.
The average woman…not a hope in hell.
Re ghostwriting…..how to contact you?
Eliminate who you Are Not….and accidentally Find yourself
excellent, Richard.
you need two to stay married, but it only takes one to divorce. and as Ton said, it’s the macro level, in this culture, that is allowing rampant divorce and destruction of families.
there is no new sin under the sun. infidelity, promiscuity, deceit, lies … they’ve been around since the beginning. the difference in this culture is that the boundaries for what is *accepted* behavior are so loose and shifting that there is no shame or firm line anywhere.
it used to be a ‘loose’ woman knew her lot and what went with it. it was defined. now, all women think they can sleep around and not be called ‘loose’ because they have the ‘right’ to behave in whatever way they want, and there’s nothing to tell them otherwise.
idk about the state where this young man lives … i know that when i went thru my divorce in the state of Texas that there was no legal separation. idk if that might be an option for this young man … it might at least force some kind of protection of his assets? give him the ability to say that she can stay in the marriage but must stay within certain boundaries? idk.
I’m sure Dalrock would write a very good society and historical book of where this is all headed and how it’s happened. I’m afraid it would be too depressing and wouldn’t give anyone hope though.
There’s always a remnant. And those people need hope to carry on and encouraging stories of people doing it right to inspire them in their own individual lives.
@horseman, it would be fun! You can email me at notesfromaredpillgirl@gmail. Com. I don’t check it regular but if you post a heads up in a comment there’s mail I will look! 🙂
Agreed Stephanie, the remnant is who rebuilds in the end, after the rest fall by the wayside. That’s why I try to share stories of people I see doing well, and how, as well as stories that are more a warning about what doesn’t work.
In the end it always goes back to the time tested thing. Families who stand together thru time and generations. It’s not a perfect system but it’s a stable one. Stability builds. Stability lasts. Build your house upon the rock, not upon the sand! 🙂
Friend of mine used a ghost writer. His book made one of the greatest soldiers I knew look like a giant pussy, a viccitim of everything possible.
No thanks
Jeez..I step away for a few days and y’all go on a tear.
Got one question, k? Seems the common denominator in a lot of the comments is doing or tolerating stupid shit for the sake of the kids. Put up with her cheating, disrespecting hubby, the standard lying and deceiving of wifey. Ok, so if the time comes to go “full scorched earth” why do some of you think the kids are exempt from being thrown under the bus too? The unfaithful wife has already bet the kids lives, yes?
So unless someone is even willing to sacrifice the kiddies well being, security, stability or happiness, it is not full scorched earth IMO, there are some survivors. Full scorched earth leaves nothing standing and no survivors. Guess I’m trying to say that sometimes you can’t just blow up a marriage, you have to literally nuke it and start over with nothing.
‘ Ok, so if the time comes to go “full scorched earth” why do some of you think the kids are exempt from being thrown under the bus too? ‘
Because they are innocent in this situation. They aren’t the reason why mommy is rebelling and having an affair.
Earl, because mommy is having an affair, she has openly demonstrated she does not give a rat’s ass what innocent person gets destroyed: kids, husband, herself, family..correct?
Innocent kids lives does not figure into a cheating wife’s thinking while she is playing a whore.
No the responsibility for the outcome of the kids is on the woman who ruined the marriage not the man who responds to her actions
“No the responsibility for the outcome of the kids is on the woman who ruined the marriage not the man who responds to her actions”
And that is exactly right. Put the responsibility AND ultimate outcome squarely were it belongs, on the corrupt wife.
maybe it’s just my definition and idea of “nuking” or “scorched earth” is quite a bit different that most of you (collectively).
does this work the other way around, too, if it’s the man who is out screwing around and leaves … that he is the one responsible for ruining the marriage?
Larry G,
Your question might be better addressed to Deti. From what I have read, Kids are the primary reason that a lot of men try to keep the marriage together.
Ame,
It is different when men step out. They are pursuing an extracurricular activity. They haven’t tossed their commitment into the round file, so they can come back. For women, stepping out underscores trashing the relationship. She is done.
forgot about this, Bloom, but the book: Women’s Infidelity by Michelle Langley (the first one) would be good for him. it is a very hard read, and it made me very angry. but … it lays it out in harsh detail what it looks like when a wife is having an affair, what she’s thinking, and what his chances are of saving the marriage. here’s a link to her website: http://womensinfidelity.com/
Ame… why on earth is that book so expensive? LOL!! That’s insane pricing!
Stephanie – WOW! that’s insane! … supply and demand?!!!
Bloom – i sent you an email.
Yeah. That’s not the price of a truly mass produced or “commercial” book … especially the PDF. That’s a product that is an element of a self help program. Some of those things get completely out of hand. It’s no doubt the opposite of supply and demand, either being exploitive or costing a lot because there are FEW customers and printing short runs costs is pretty expensive.
@Larry
‘Earl, because mommy is having an affair, she has openly demonstrated she does not give a rat’s ass what innocent person gets destroyed: kids, husband, herself, family..correct?’
My point was go scorched earth on the wife. Don’t tolerate her cheating or stay married to her. The kid(s) shouldn’t be thrown under the bus…the man should do everything he can to get the kid(s) out of the situation of the rebellious mother (and I get he’ll be facing a big uphill battle).
(and I get he’ll be facing a big uphill battle
…..
I don’t think anyone gets that until they have been through it. And you rarely hear “the man should do everything he can to get the kid(s) out of the situation of the rebellious mother” from men who have tried and ruined themselves. Financially and otherwise.
It’s pretty easy to tell when a man is taking from 1st hand experience vs when a man is operating on theory alone
The point is I get how the state and courts makes it flat out difficult for the father when the wife wants to go rogue. I’d rather the kid know how hard the father fought for them and their well being. They get that.
“My point was go scorched earth on the wife. Don’t tolerate her cheating or stay married to her. The kid(s) shouldn’t be thrown under the bus…the man should do everything he can to get the kid(s) out of the situation of the rebellious mother (and I get he’ll be facing a big uphill battle).”
Earl, been there, done that, ok? We have different concepts of “scorched earth” and I will tell you now that in total war there are no winners. Women have absolutely NO problems or issues turning the kids into weapons now do they? Just chips in a nasty all or nothing poker game is how females use “their” children. Am I right? Again, been there done that. So, yeah, I fought damn dirty and I used my own kids in the divorce of a whore. I KNOW what scorched earth really is, dude, because I supervised it.
I’ll make one more comment so bear with me. I came within 2 seconds of blowing that sluts head off with a 12 gauge shotgun. However, I let her live. A nice side effect of not killing the whore was not going to prison, but it was sooo close. Just a friendly reminder that some men take being cheated on rather poorly.
Almost time for bed and a good night’s sleep with my wife of 25 years by my side. So there is light at the end of the blackest tunnel. No cheating whore is worth loosing what could be the best years of a man’s life. Agreed?
Earl, sorry man but this part is pure BS
” I’d rather the kid know how hard the father fought for them and their well being. They get that.” No they fucking well DO NOT get it, ok? Mommy will make damn sure that over the years she has them all by herself, she can brainwash the kiddies about what a selfish prick daddy is, no darling daddy does NOT love you, daddy is a monster. Get the real picture?
Earl,
I think we are both better off for not having that direct experience. It all does sound like something wise men would do their best to avoid.
my Husband and i have both gone through this with kids.
the evil person will be evil. the one who blows up the marriage will not take responsibility. the one who blows up the marriage will do everything they can to blame the other one, and they will have absolutely no shame nor boundaries in demeaning the other one, including and especially using the children. it’s shocking what the mind can justify.
the mom has an advantage that men will almost never have – simply b/c they are mom. they enmesh themselves with their children and teach them, either consciously or unconsciously, the child not only NEEDS their mother, but the mother NEEDS the child … and all while at the same time teaching them the father doesn’t care, is stupid, makes stupid and irresponsible and selfish and self-serving choices which prove he never did and doesn’t and never will care for the child – especially not nearly as much as mom, and, anyway, dad doesn’t NEED the child like mom does. THEN … mom will instill this HUGE manipulative psychological crap that leaves the child wondering … IF i do love or try to contact dad, then i risk loosing mom, i risk mom loosing it … and what if mom’s right and dad is bad, then i loose both parents. it’s sick, selfish, self-serving. and what’s worse, there is hardly anyone who will stop her or call her on her BS.
when Deti says you have to be willing to blow it all up and walk away from everything with nothing … he means EVERYthing and with NOTHING.
Fuzzie is right – you don’t want to know.
and none of us want you to know, either.
just know you can’t speak to that which you do not know and respect those who do know and wish they didn’t.
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
ever had to give up everything and everyone to follow what is right? with no hope or expectation of ever getting it back? including something you love as much as your own child?
– – –
my only suggestion to those who are pulled from their children … keep a journal for each child and write to them in the journal from time-to-time. if there is ever a time in the future when you might see your child again, you will have something to give them from your heart if you want to.
@ Ton, that’s truly too bad about your friend’s book, did he not have final approval of the copy?
In your case, because let’s face it nobody phrases it like you do, I would think a ghostwriter would support your writing most of the copy, perhaps helping you map out the structure and topics and overall flow, then edit and correct any typos etc. Otherwise I can’t imagine anyone saying what you have to say better than you do! Any ghostwriter not being true to that first and foremost is not worthy of the title. If the client is unhappy, feels it doesn’t sound like or accurately portray them, the writer has failed.
Anyone working w/ a ghostwriter should insist on final approval of the text. Any ghostwriter refusing that is simply not up to the task. All of the people I have ghostwritten for, for example, say I captured what they were saying so well, it was undetectable they had not written it them self! That’s the goal!
The goal should be victory in. The question is when? Most men are not going to win the initial engagement. Ie the divorce. You have to figure out how to win the post divorce. Which is really about protecting your income and wealth long term and building a better custody case.
Some men will have a decent case for custody right from initial contact but the overwhelming majority of men will not. The majority of men should preserve their resources, money, time, personal/ emotional strength etc and look for a better opportunity to achieve their goals
” I’d rather the kid know how hard the father fought for them and their well being. They get that.” No they fucking well DO NOT get it, ok? Mommy will make damn sure that over the years she has them all by herself, she can brainwash the kiddies about what a selfish prick daddy is, no darling daddy does NOT love you, daddy is a monster. Get the real picture?
……
Legit and no Earl cannot get the real picture because he has not lived through it. It’s all theory and abstract greater good bullshit until you live through it.
Sort of like someone seeing Saving Private Ryan, reading some books and playing Call of Duty saying they know what combat is like/ how to react in a fire fight.
‘ Get the real picture?’
Yes…because I have a horrible aunt who did that with her kids. Guess what…when my cousins grew up and saw life for what it really was…they realized it was her fault for wrecking the family despite her years of brainwashing.
‘Legit and no Earl cannot get the real picture because he has not lived through it.’
Lived experience is the better guide, I get…but I’ve seen the effects it does to extended family memebers and coworkers. Divorce at its root rips the heart and a lot of fight out of men. That’s a big reason why marriage is looking very unrewarding for men.
Earl,
‘ Get the real picture?’
Yes…because I have a horrible aunt who did that with her kids. Guess what…when my cousins grew up and saw life for what it really was…they realized it was her fault for wrecking the family despite her years of brainwashing.
Some kids never get to that point of realizing that they were brainwashed against their father by “mommy dearest” but grow up believing the lies. So, some kids of fathers will NEVER know or even want to discover if daddy ever loved them….not every story has a happy fucking ending in this life
So, some kids of fathers will NEVER know or even want to discover if daddy ever loved them….not every story has a happy fucking ending in this life
……
Thankfully Sky6 made sure I wasn’t one of those fathers.
Again earl you have witnessed it. From a distance. Which is why you sound naive and clueless to those who have lived it
“Lived experience is the better guide, I get…” I do not know you personally, Earl, but from what I read of your comments, I like you. Believe me when I tell you that I am extremely grateful that you do not have these experiences first hand. If you have a drama and relatively pain free life, God has been good to you. And for that I am grateful.
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/05/03/i-am-owed/
I suppose I have to touch the burning stove to get it is hot. My indirect experiences of watching other men in my life touch the burning stove and get burnt and witnessing what it has done to them and their children plus what they’ve told me it has done to them and their children mean nothing.
Honestly guys…I was talking about the state of the children when it comes to divorce. I’m all for scorched earth on the rebellious wife and her selfishness who probably deserves it given what she’s doing.
you know what, Earl … it is ALWAYS the kids who suffer the most. and in situations like this, sometimes the best one can do is pray over the child.
there is a philosophy out there that says ‘children are resilient,’ and while this is true, it doesn’t mean that children are unaffected. it means that God created humanity to survive, and He gave children coping mechanisms that kick in when needed.
but parents often use ‘children are resilient’ to justify being idiots.
/////@GLA said: “Dude needs to lawyer up now and go full scorched earth now while the getting is good. Best of luck to him.”
And when it happens to him the next time, same answer applies. And the next time. And the time after that.
Going full scorched earth presupposes that it is possible to move on and have a better outcome next time./////
No, it doesn’t. Obviously, you don’t know what scorched earth entails, do you?
////If AWALT, why do we think there will ever be a better outcome?//////
If you actually cared to read my post earlier, you would know he stands a chance of having a more equitable separation now than waiting to lose everything later.
, /////we will end up with children incapable of maintaining society into the next generations.////
Already have that now, genius.
AWALT ==> MGTOW is not the behavior that will guarantee a useful next generation.
////
This from a guy who failed to marry off his own daughter back when she was in her prime fertility years, and instead pushed her to have an education and career. Pot, meet Kettle.
When This Battle is Over (who will wear the crown?)
Well, who can make the best use of it? Who is it that actually builds the infrastructure of society?//////
Men who actually have an incentive to build and maintain said society.
Gees over dramitic much? No one said it means nothing earl. Are you stamping your wittle foot too?
This is not a hill I intend to die on, but I think it is at least worth a comment. I now join the group piling on Earl and those others who fit this description.
I find it depressing that some hold tight to the absolute of “she must submit” – because it was spoken in the New Testament (even tho never spoken by God himself), and yet continually blow off “if she is content to stay, don’t seek to be loosed”.
Why hold with such fervor to one and completely ignore the other, when both were spoken in the New Testament (rhetorical question)?
@GLA said: “If you actually cared to read my post earlier, you would know he stands a chance of having a more equitable separation … ”
I did – and I do know that – and that is relevant only if having a more equitable separation is the goal. I was suggesting that perhaps a different goal would be a better pursuit. My comments had nothing to do with scorching the earth, so whether I know what that means or not was not relevant to my comments. I have said elsewhere (this thread?) that some problems have no solution. I get that. But that would fall into the category of “she is not content to stay”, to refer back to my New Testament theme, and so would not be part of what I was discussing.
Finding out if she is content to stay would be part of the process of pursuing a different goal. If she is, it is appropriate to place expectations on her. If she isn’t, scorched-earth would be the appropriate next step.
I’ve referenced elsewhere the favorite saying of a friend of my dad: “the strong always suffer for the weak”. My comments were a riff on that. The “strong” are the ones who suffer for the weak, the ones who stay (and suffer) and manage to find a way to hold it together.
My comments were made as a member of the community who understands God’s claim on our lives, as laid out in the Bible. Quite a few here understand that. Those who don’t understand God’s claim as laid out in the Bible are going to think my comments are foolish. But they are really not “mine”. I’m simply presenting the Biblical viewpoint.
@GLA: quoted me “Well, who can make the best use of it? Who is it that actually builds the infrastructure of society?” and then answered my rhetorical question: “Men who actually have an incentive to build and maintain said society.”
Um, yeah. That WAS the point. Glad that you got it.
@GLA said: “This from a guy who failed to marry off his own daughter back when she was in her prime fertility years, and instead pushed her to have an education and career.”
Graduation (Summa Cum Laude) all week next week, three of them: University (Monday), Department (Tuesday), Discipline (Friday). Then it is off to Indiana University in Bloomington mid-June for a 6-week stint as an intern/sidekick for a professor in their gentics lab – studying the genetic mutations that lead to deformaties of the head and its organs that lead to hearing, speech, and language problems. Then it is off to graduate school in mid-August.
Re GLA’s quote above: “This from a guy …” I only take issue with the phrase “failed to” – as though I tried and did not succeed. I did not try.. And won’t at least until she is mid-way through her second year of grad school. As I have told her – there is a mother out there somewhere waiting for her to come and heal the mother’s child. Right now, she’s making sure she can do that. Because, if not her, then who? She will have plenty of fertile years after she finishes grad school. I think that is a more logical path than failing to gain a useful skill-set all for the purpose of chasing MGOTW. The consensus around this corner of the manosphere seems to be that folks shouldn’t get married in this current day, I am not in favor of her having babies without a husband, just for the sake of having babies. So, GLA, if you truely believe with the rest that now is a time that people should shun marriage, how is your quote above consistent with that belief? (Rhetorical question)
I don’t have the same desire to see lots of babies created that some others do, for a multitude of reasons. But the big one for me is the many vs. few conundrum. I don’t think that purposefully creating someone who will have a less than 50% chance of finding the path that leads to eternal life a particularly worthwhile activity.
some problems have no solution.
……..
Legit
Creating babies is about protecting power into the future.
RichardP, IMO you are totally nuts.
“But that would fall into the category of “she is not content to stay”, to refer back to my New Testament theme, and so would not be part of what I was discussing.
Finding out if she is content to stay would be part of the process of pursuing a different goal. If she is, it is appropriate to place expectations on her. If she isn’t, scorched-earth would be the appropriate next step.
I’ve referenced elsewhere the favorite saying of a friend of my dad: “the strong always suffer for the weak”. My comments were a riff on that. The “strong” are the ones who suffer for the weak, the ones who stay (and suffer) and manage to find a way to hold it together.
A cheating woman makes herself into total garbage fit only to be thrown out to the pigs, It has no remaining value whatsoever. She is lucky to ONLY if she gets thrown out, she deserves nothing short of death. These whores have been give a free pass by by this twisted and corrupt culture, it is past time that changes
“The consensus around this corner of the manosphere seems to be that folks shouldn’t get married in this current day, I am not in favor of her having babies without a husband, just for the sake of having babies. ”
Well let’s see…bastards are being born to single mommy’s at an ever increasing rate simply because the FEMALES have decides that husbands are not necessary. They get full support, praise and advantages of being single mothers while men pay the bills. Actually, these females DO get knocked up to for that very purpose, just to pop out more kids.
Richard – I’ve referenced elsewhere the favorite saying of a friend of my dad: “the strong always suffer for the weak”. My comments were a riff on that. The “strong” are the ones who suffer for the weak, the ones who stay (and suffer) and manage to find a way to hold it together.
truth.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/05/05/college-boys-avoid-college-girls/