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Ladies, when it comes to matters of the heart, it’s essential to choose your counsel carefully.
Whether you are looking for advice on your marriage, getting divorced, getting married, a romantic interest, or how to navigate the dating scene chances are almost everyone has a take on the “right” thing to do.
However, I have found most of the time that advice is exactly the opposite of good counsel! While it may be well meaning and well intended, if it steers you in the wrong direction the results can be disastrous and long lasting.
My advice would be to seek relationship-type counsel from male family members (who can often see through guy-games much better than any woman!) or trusted women older than yourself who are themselves in happy, healthy, long-term relationships. While they may not always tell you what you want to hear, the fact that they themselves are successfully navigating these waters, even if they have not faced your particular situation, suggests they have the experience to guide you to success.
Likewise, avoid the counsel of friends, family, and co-workers who themselves are not doing well or have not done well on the relationship front. While such women (and men!) can often seem to know what they are talking about, and even speak with authority, chances are their advice won’t work any better for you than it is working for themselves. Especially so if their love life is a constant hot mess!
You see, advice geared toward single and married women today is often exactly the opposite of what works. And this bad advice is much more commonly available and espoused than good advice.
Often when a gal is struggling in her marriage, for example, she’ll find far more voices of support for her to just leave and move on than she will encouraging her to work things out.
Likewise, single women are often given advice that leaves them sitting by the phone wondering if a guy will call back or brokenhearted than advice that will lead to a stable, solid, successful match.
There’s a saying in the investment world that to win, one should do the opposite of what everyone else is doing. I think that advice can apply here as well. Because let’s face it, there are far more people in failed, failing, or miserable relationship situations than there are ones who are not. Doing and being different is likely the secret to those who find success.
So next time you find yourself wondering what to do about a relationship issue, remember to choose your counsel carefully. Listen to those who are truly “winning” in love. Often their advice will involve patience, sacrifice of instant gratification for long-term results, grace, forgiveness, self-discipline, and other ways you can improve the situation on YOUR part, rather than a focus on, “what he needs to do.”
Perhaps the hardest part about choosing your counsel carefully is that the ones most worth listening to may say what you least want to hear. In fact, that alone may be a good sign their advice is on the right track. If it’s the opposite of 90 percent of the advice on love and relationships you see, hear, or read today, it’s likely worth pondering. If it’s the same old stuff you hear at every turn, beware!
I wish somebody would have said these things to me in my youth. And I wish I would have been more discerning who I sought counsel from. Most of my “advisers” weren’t doing well in relationships then, and no surprise they still aren’t today! Sadly, I can’t turn back time, but I can try to share what I have learned the hard way in hopes it helps others avoid the same path.
Today I am very selective in whose counsel I keep. I’ll take advice from someone who is succeeding over the advice of someone who is not any day! I would suggest you do the same!
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
Wise advice.
‘Likewise, single women are often given advice that leaves them sitting by the phone wondering if a guy will call back or brokenhearted than advice that will lead to a stable, solid, successful match.’
You’d think after the 20th time they’d figure out sex with strange men and taking birth control isn’t a well thought out relationship strategy.
Let’s face it…you could probably pin the majority of female’s discontent with the results of promiscuity.
@ Earl just this morning I was reading something that said prior to the pill something like 60% of women waited until after marriage. By 1975 that number was down to 20%. Today that number is next to none. If it worked one would think marriage and relationships today would be MORE successful, but the statistics don’t seem to be showing that.
Thanks, Chrissie B! 😀
may I suggest the “Costanza” theory. Whatever you would normally think to do, do the opposite!
I think that it is worth considering. especially from those who you have pointed out, have “failed” failed in their relationships. But that is dependent on whether the suggestions they are giving are based on what the think they should have done, instead of what they actually did.
my relationship(s) were all eventually failures. but the advice I would give would be to NOT do the things I did, and instead take a more self-aware approach, with a bit more compromising, and a lot less settling. I may have still failed, due in part to the other people I was involved with. but there is no doubt that it would have been much less painful for me in the long run.
sometimes the devil’s advocate, is the exact person you really should be listening to…
Feminists are so adamant that there is absolutely no difference between men and women they’ll hamster or get offended any thought that proves otherwise.
One of the biggest arenas was trying to make it equal (or more accurately the same) between men and women is when it comes to sex. And their pipe dream they thought came true with contraception…the ability to have sex whenever they want without fear of getting pregnant like men. Contraception doesn’t stop the ability to conceive completely…it just makes your body thinks it’s pregnant without actually being pregnant. It has never been the same…we react differently to sex and that’s because we have different biology and bodies.
We are going to see more of this.
Attractive, fit, family oriented guy dates into his late 30s and can’t find a marriageable woman.
Note Cappy’s advice “statistically it is likely that a young man will never marry, there are fewer and fewer marriageable women out there.”
Read that again…
STATISTICALLY you will never marry!
(30% obese, 20% feminists, 30% career driven….. add up the unmarriageable)
This is advice from a tell it like it is Guy To A Guy!!!!!
Not woman to wokman wa wa no good men, not go gurl feminists, not basement dweller incels…
From a logical guy pointing out reality to back up another guy’s lived experience.
And the bar being talked about is low…Just Be Marriageable.
‘Attractive, fit, family oriented guy dates into his late 30s and can’t find a marriageable woman.’
I certainly wouldn’t disagree with that statement.
‘Women will bang the table and say they’re equal until it comes time to do something difficult….’
Exactly.
This is an interesting post. I agree with most it.
However, I’m a firm believer that great advice can come from anyone (even those who have failed at it constantly) As you know failure is often the best teacher.
I believe no advice is will work if you have terrible discernment. Even a woman who is happy and older can give bad advice. The key is, being aware of those who give absolute advice without any options. Those who create hard line rules on dating and relationships, knowing both are evolving and changing constantly are people I avoid. The best advice to tell anyone is to do what’s best for your relationship and create your own rules within your relationship as it progresses. Use the advice people give as a baseline, or guideline, but at the end of the day, make your own decision. Communicate with your mate as often as possible and have meaningful conversations where information that is productive to your relationship is exchanged. Make it fun and enjoyable, but always be moving forward.
When someone tells you…”do it this way.” I always step back. As a relationship strategist, I always tell my clients to make sure they understand their mate before acting on any advice given… even from me.
“Often their advice will involve patience,”/////
Just about every woman I’ve ever encountered in real life did not have this.
” sacrifice of instant gratification for long-term results,”/////
basically more of that patience thing again 😉
“grace,”////
That might be something they say before meals if they’re particularly religious, otherwise I don’t think most of ’em even know what that is.
“forgiveness,”/////
They’re as bad as jews and their goddamned hoaxoco$t; they never forgive and they never forget.
“self-discipline,”/////
I would say that most women don’t have that or even know what that is either, especially the ones who are used to having everything go their way without having to work for it.
“and other ways you can improve the situation on YOUR part”/////
basically more of that self-discipline thing again 😉
In case you didn’t happen to watch the Cappy video…he points out the worst counsel most women get nowadays.
Focus on your career and education (with a little promiscuity on the side) during the prime time years you should be getting married and having kids. That’s your best opportunity to find a decent man. It’s only when they are down to three eggs do they panic and have to ‘settle’ for whatever they can get.
I saw Horseman’s video link yesterday and it is worth it while it runs over twenty eight minutes. What got to me is that it confirms what I have been seeing for years. There are a dearth of motivated women and perfectly good guys are going to never marry. It is not just Scandinavia.
Their motivations are focused in the wrong place and they don’t want marriage and kids. And I’m starting to unleash this redpill truth slowly in meatspace. You can’t marry the unwilling.
It has yet to fail at least in my experiences when I talk to my friends that got married young (early 20s). The woman was HIGHLY motivated and willing to get married to him. In some of the cases the guy was more apprehensive to do it. The amount of women like that is probably at most 20%.
So next time you find yourself wondering what to do about a relationship issue
……
Seems to me the answer to your wondering is right there. As in if you have to wonder shit ain’t right.
The amount of women like that is probably at most 20%.
…….
Is the amount of women like that aroound 20% or is that the amount of men who generate their motivation around 20%
@ Jay Thomas, absolutely! Sometimes people who have made mistakes and LEARNED from them give the best advice of all. So I didn’t mean to imply only those who are “perfect” should give advice, because let’s face it nobody is perfect. I should maybe have said it is the person is CURRENTLY in the same mindset or still doing what hasn’t worked or isn’t working in thier own life, beware! And of course I also agree that one needs to look within, and also of course talk to their partner, when issues arise. Actually talking to everyone about their gripes BUT their partner about your feelings is an all too common mistake I see gals make, and is a really damaging and unfair one. Another common error I see is what I call the “hen session” where gals get together to gripe, “My guy is the worst…” then the next says, “No my guy is worse,” etc. all under the guise of “female bonding.” It just makes everyone unhappy. Nobody is positive all of the time, of course, but I notice those who seem to be in the best relationships are more positive than negative, not only about their partner but in general. I suppose one could argue it’s easier to be positive in a positive situation, true, but I think many times it’s a choice to look at the glass half empty or half full. Anyway welcome and thank you for commenting, I hope you will do so often, sounds like you are interested in lots of the same topics we discuss here! 🙂
Speaking of bad advice from ‘women’…this piece revolves around what Michelle Obama said.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/30369/walsh-if-you-give-family-career-you-also-give-matt-walsh
‘WALSH: If You Give Up Family For Career, You Also Give Up Happiness And Meaning’
‘The former First Lady was interviewed by “Blackish” star Tracee Ellis Ross and the women together lamented the fact that girls “still dream of weddings” and “Prince Charming.” The two agreed that some women (Tracee Ellis Ross included) can sacrifice family for the sake of a career and be “happy as a clam.” In fact, it would seem that Mrs. Obama — who is married with two kids — thinks this path is preferable, given that she considers it a problem when girls aspire to marriage. Ross provided compelling evidence to prove that her decision to forgo family life was the right call: “Look where I’m sitting,” she declared. Yes, the summit of all happiness is to sit on a stage with a former First Lady. Truly, this is the eternal bliss for which we were designed.’
‘Is the amount of women like that aroound 20% or is that the amount of men who generate their motivation around 20%’
The amount of women are like that.
It’s easy to have promiscuous sex with strange men for women…it seems to comes with the career/education path. Very few of them are motivated to be married.
Fnu Mnu Lnu…”a bit more compromising, and a lot less settling”
That’s an interesting dichotomy: ‘compromising’ vs ‘settling’. Could you comment a bit on the distinction between those two things? Thanks.
But the ones who want to be married young…. question is why?
My guess is because they want to lock down that top tier young man.
To get back to the original post, it is a good idea for women to avoid “hen parties”, unless they are looking for support to remain single.
The ladies really liked that particular guy and wanted to be married to them. It’s not rocket science or what tier of man he is…women do have free will. They can choose to be married young to a quality guy and build a family with him or waste their time getting a useless gender study degree in the perpetual offenses and work a dead end career.
It was often quite easy for most men to get married regardless of what arbitrary ‘tier’ he was in before the brainwashing of feminism, hating men, and choosing a career and tingles over family was considered the ‘norm’ for women.
The ones who marry young are likely trying to (and able to) lock down a top tier man, but if they have not been taught how to make that relationship a success or to bring anything to the table themselves except bitching and moaning, well it likely won’t last or they will listen to bad advice and think the grass is greener elsewhere. So then they are no better off, worse likely, than had they not married young at all.
Our dear Liz (Hi Liz, if you are reading!) was one who despite a terrible mom who was a terrible wife to her father, met and married young a (future) top tier guy herself, and then stuck by him and their family thru thick and thin to win. Here’s the link to their story from above, in case anyone missed it: https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2014/11/03/case-study-of-a-successful-marriage/ Liz would be a good woman to go to for advice, I would think!
RPG,
That is if they fail. There is also collateral damage. The men they were married to have a lower opinion of women from direct experience.
You have a very good point. Women are not prepared very well for marriage.
@ Earl, in scenario you miss is they may marry young and really like that guy but then be so incapable of bringing what is needed to a relationship bc they have been programmed with the “modern way” thinking that they fail. This can even happen to gals raised in the church, virgins, from good families, etc. So it’s not just two paths, marry young or career, but perhaps the most doomed path of all is marry young and ALSO think she can “have it all, and at the same time.”
True Fuzzie, good point. It’s a disaster all around.
…to add to that, most of the time those men recover and carry on, like many posting here, for example, but true they also are never the same. Innocence is maybe out of fashion but it really is a beautiful thing, especially when not lost. I know couples who have met and married young and never known anything but each other and while they may not even know, they are so blessed to have escaped all the pain and damage and heartache way too many others have experienced. They truly are the lucky ones. And when I see them, it makes me so happy to know they are out there! May they be fruitful and multiply! 😉
I miss Liz!
Me too bear, Liz taught me so much! And helped translate for you men folk many a time so I too could learn.
Marriage and family is THE GOAL, as far as sex and procreation goes. Just as in sports, if you ignore the goal, then your life-game is screwed.
For those who don;t know, Liz’s hubby got a high profile job and she had to “ghost” on the internet and the manosphere or anything at all potentially controversial bc of that. Hopefully after his several year assignment is done she will be back, posting like mad, and sharing her wisdom again! 😀
@ Wayne, marriage and family is THE goal, as far as life is concerned, really IMHO. I have learned a job is not going to be there for you, love you, take care of you, sickness and in health, yada yada like a family you have invested well in will. I know many women who were married w kids, or maybe divorced w kids, who put career first and guess what? Those women now are very lonely, everyone too busy now for the woman who was too busy for them then. People say but rarely hear, the years pass so quickly and are gone in a flash, if you don’t deposit into the family “bank” of affection, time, and attention, it will not be there later. Women who do get this are surrounded by an ever growing and doting brood who circle around her as if she is the sun itself. This, I have come to believe, is truly the natural course of a woman’s life — what she puts into family (or not) returns ten fold in the end.
… additionally the initial investment is high, and indeed in the early years can feel like a one way street of all give and no take, taking care of everyone but herself. It is only over the longer horizon that it becomes clear that (in retrospect) short period of intense investment (even, gasp, temporary sacrifice!) returns dividends far beyond the initial investment later (or not, if not made.)
Honestly, despite what the mainstream may warn young women, how many times have you heard anyone say, “My mom was so amazing and there for me and our family, I can’t stand her! I wish she had worked more and cared about us less!” Ummm, never! Or I never have! Not that maybe the kids won’t feel so for a short time when all their other friends are doing whatever they want because their moms/parents are too busy to care, but long term I have never heard anyone regret or complain, “I had good parents who had their priorities straight, and I wish I didn’t!”
And not to bag on the Boomers, but they were the first (at least in modern times) to abandon this idea of generations passing the baton. Instead it became about, “me!” It will be interesting to see how the millennial play it, the next generation where the young outnumber the old. I hope they will learn dealing future generations a short hand is not the way to play, even if they themselves are left to both cope with that hand and somehow overcome it. As a gen-x, I mostly have only had a front row seat as the wreckage unfolded, we saw and endured the problems but had no real numbers or power to effect change. (Although we did latch on to computers and the Internet and all the change those things could affect! We perfected angst and trolling, lol.) May the millennials and those who follow learn from the mistakes of those before who lived only for themselves and the day, rather than rinse and repeat.
(And noted: NABALT. Not all boomers are like that. But lots are and they may yet sink the boat we are all clinging to for survival! Dangerous waters ahead, all hands on deck!)
“it seems to comes with the career/education path. Very few of them are motivated to be married.”
Until they are… and many a blue pill guy has learned the hard way that does not usually end in adoration and appreciation.
Liz is a beautiful woman with an incredible ability to articulate in a way that draws us into her life and story and still is able to be poignant and real. she has proven who she is over time and is definitely one whose advice is worth one’s time.
– – –
as you’ve said … it’s important to find wisdom that is truth rather than that which we want to hear. and then . . . to be teachable.
my late Mentor was in her 70’s and i in my later 30’s when i met her. occasionally i would say something, and she would say, “Oh, that’s good!” then she’d actually write it down to remember it! i learned so much from that – she was in her 70’s and still teachable. i want to be like that. i want to remain teachable, willing to learn and adapt when appropriate and necessary.
Sometimes finding right kind of advice is hard. I would certainly need some now.
Awwww …. it was really good to re-read the post about Liz. I’ll have to talk to her about some of that stuff again. I can 100% vouch for her that she is one of the BEST women to go to for marriage/family/kid-raising advice… pretty much any topic that she has experience in, she’s tried to figure out what works best for her (and it’s usually what’s best for most people).
…… And… taking counsel from just anyone is scary. Most of the advice out there (like Bloom said in this post) is just so wrong. It’s hard to ignore it sometimes because it’s so pervasive, even from Church ladies who should tell you otherwise. That there’s so much bad advice out there I think makes it 10 times easier to take that easier route of divorcing or complaining or feeling like you’re the victim in your marriage (which may be a temptation for most women I think).
We need more good examples and good advice of how to survive a longterm marriage with the correct attitude that Liz has had (even if imperfectly).
It’s easy to understand, but kind of hard to explain. To me compromising is where each person/side makes slight accommodations with each other, in order to get an overall agreeable and fair end result. Settling is where one person/side pretty much just gives in, and the end result is just too lopsided to be considered fair. “yes, dear” is a good example of settling…
From my limited experiences in their home…they seem to be good wives and mothers. Actually cook and raise their kids and are selfless. When I visited my friend his wife made us drinks. The biggest thing is they fear the Lord.
Why most women are ill prepared for marriage is that they want to be selfish and have everything done for them instead of putting their spouses needs first.
Marriage is about putting your spouses needs first…mutually. Not just the husband doing it.
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/05/09/tingles-and-motherhood/
I think your statement about “Listen to those who are winning” is telling. In the modern West, we seem to have a fucked up definition of what it means to “win”.
We tell all our boys that winning means “getting the girl”, and tell all our girls winning means “acting like a man” … well it’s no wonder people are so confused and making poor life choices.
There is actually a fantastic chapter in the Book of Pook where we talks about how getting the girl is not the success. And that very misconception trips up many men: https://bookofpook.neocities.org/#ch-14
My mom always gave good advice regarding men. She suspected my early 20s ex boyfriend had bipolar disorder before he was diagnosed with it 3 months afterwards. She was an excellent judge of character.
Even though she is gone, I still keep her advice close to my heart.
“o me compromising is where each person/side makes slight accommodations with each other, in order to get an overall agreeable and fair end result. Settling is where one person/side pretty much just gives in, and the end result is just too lopsided to be considered fair. “yes, dear” is a good example of settling…”
Very good, worthwhile dichotomy. I’d say that in order to Compromise instead of Settle, a person needs to: (1) Have a reasonable degree of assertiveness (and, in particular, not be passive-aggressive), and (2) Have a good level of emotional self-control, ie, be able to avoid excessive anger in the negotiation.
@ copperfox so true that the definition of win these days is exactly what’s leading so many to lose! Well said.
@ash what a blessing to have such a mom! It is good her wisdom guides you still, I hope to leave such a legacy myself! Nothing would make me happier.
Hi there, I’ve read most of your blog and love it!
I get most of my relationship advice from blogs similar to yours.
I’ve not been able to get much help relationship wise in real life. I’m 24 and only recently met a wonderful man who like me, dates with marriage in mind. My parents have a wonderful relationship and met when they were young, but yet are horrified that I’m not career-minded and won’t wait for a man who is a doctor/lawyer/engineer to come my way.
Most of my friends are in long-term, stable and happy relationships. They found their partners when they were 18-20 and never understood the loneliness of being single until you’re 24. They advice they gave me was to set my requirements high, e.g. Some of them would never date a guy who wasn’t much taller then them. And to be patient, and that it is much better to be single. They say they would have no problems being alone, but yet I wonder if they would give up the partner that they have.
I never listened to them.
I don’t think that everyone in a good relationship would necessarily give good advice. Especially if they were picky but still found their partners young.
What do you think? 🙂
@ Bessie, welcome! I know the advice to young women these days is, “don’t marry young, wait until your 30s” (or insert an age here, depending on where you live.) Yet I think you are wise to question that. And while all parents want their daughter to marry as well as possible, by the time he is a doctor or lawyer or xyz, he’s likely already long paired up w a gal who saw his goals and potential and helped him build to it. I would also agree your friends may have paired up young but perhaps don’t have the best advice or ideas of how to advise you if they just sort of fell into that by luck. My advice would be to 1.) make the most of your appearance, men are very visual. 2.) Be approachable, be pleasant and fun and positive. Smile! 3.) Be different: Avoid casual sex, go nowhere dating, hookups, etc. Your future husband will be glad you did. 4.) Be a lady. Act classy, you’ll stand out above the rest who aren’t. 5.) know what you want (a lifelong mate and marriage) yet be flexible. Waiting for a guy who meets a 50 point “perfect guy” checklist who only exists in the movies may cause you to miss the many great guys all around you. 6.) Ask for help. Have a trusted male relative meet potential men early and listen to what they advise. Men often are a better judge of other men than women are. 7.) work on what you bring. Know you need to be an asset yourself, great guys want great gals — be one! Be ready to be a good wife, show you understand what that really means and are in for life. 8.) read this blog, dating advice to a gal your age from a guy who tells how it really is. http://www.therulesrevisited.com
Others may also have some advice! You are the perfect age to be thinking like this, and perhaps you have already found him! 🙂 Good luck and keep us posted!
Thank you very much! 🙂
GREAT advice, Bloom 🙂
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