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#metoo, casual sex, consent, date rape, dating, hook ups, hooking up, hookups, red pill, relationships
This article featuring real life stories of college age consent (or not) stories is a good illustration of just how blurry the lines can be.
In some cases consent is explicitly asked. Some welcomed being asked. Some found it unsettling, unnecessary, even off-putting. Even when directly asked, some still said yes when they wanted to say no.
In other cases no verbal consent was asked. Again sometimes that was ok. Sometimes it was not. Sometimes it was ok at the time but later not. Sometimes it wasn’t ok and that was ok. Sometimes it wasn’t ok but happened anyway.
In some stories one person wanted to say no but never actually did for various reasons. Out of politeness. Out of shame. Out of inexperience. Out of guilt. Out of habit. Out of resignation. In many cases the other party may have had no idea. And in other stories they probably did.
Some stories are confusing. Sad. Painful. Tragic. And some are good stories. Good experiences.
Overall they are a good illustration of how consent is not as easily defined, understood, given, or received as campus posters or talks may make it seem. In many stories the person themself is unsure if they consented or not, wanted to or not, were violated or not. Often the other person had no idea. Was never told of those thoughts.
Some stories were from the other side — of people who later wondered if they had missed signs of non-consent? If they inadvertently had violated someone? And in some cases how they knew they had.
As I read these stories one thought I kept having was how most of them could have been avoided by avoiding the situations and conditions under which they occurred. How not taking certain steps, actions, or crossing certain lines could have prevented them. And how maybe talking to young people about that might be the discussion that’s not happening.
What do you think? Please share in the comments.
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
We started a Wiki on feminist claims.
We started with consent and the absurd video that consent is like making a cup of tea.
In the end we listed 13 issues that cloud consent.
Alcohol was the most obvious but when you get started you think of all sorts of situations.
We need to teach kids that consent is complex not simple.
Just another example of clueless feminists messing with the fabric of society with an outcome that helps nobody.
Indeed Gerard, consent is very complex. And the current consent form nonsense is not helping or protecting anyone, so true. And also true, many of the stories in the linked article talk about drinking prior to the point of throwing up, blacking out, etc. Yet there is this expectation that one can do that and no harm will come, that everyone else will look out for you and if they don’t, that’s their fault not at least partly one’s own. (I know that is not popular to say, supposedly victim blaming, but it’s a huge risk to take, unnecessarily!) In almost every story, there’s a point where the person telling it could have done different to avoid what happened. I know nobody is a psychic and in a perfect world nobody would take advantage but it’s not a perfect world as any adult should know, and in many cases it was like crazy risk taking, I cringed to read some of it. To completely put the outcome of doing so on the other party is… the opposite of empowerment. Feel free to post a link to that Wiki if you like, I would like to read it! Welcome and thanks for commenting. 🙂
i’m not even going to read the linked article. i have seen and read about too many instances of false accusations, and charges based on afterthoughts, to give these things any credence anymore.
if No means No, then you had better actually say No at the time.
I suppose that it is a given that these encounters are all out of marriage. From my perspective, it is fairly simple. “No, I do not have sex before marriage.”
In all other cases, the question is, there are some guys that I will do and some that I will not. I have no patience for the “possibility clan” where it depends on how they FEEEEEEL at the moment. We all make mistakes, so my advice for any of the regretters, the soft sellers, and the BS’ers is that you made the choice when you put yourself into that situation. So, HTFU.
Sincerely,
INTJ guy with no regrats
@fml True, I was very surprised how in many of the stories the person simply did not say, “No.” If someone thinks they don’t want to but never verbalizes that and goes ahead because they feel, “I don’t want to hurt his feelings” or whatever, that actually is a choice to proceed. Many stories were along these lines…
And I get it, you don’t have to read them but I think young women (and men) should, and read them with this thought: What could have been done differently? What can I learn to avoid having stories like this myself?”
@ih8lookingback, yes all outside of marriage. In some cases didn’t even know the other person’s last name. And yes, owning the choices *they* made that led to the ambiguous consent or not verbalized no or what not should be part of this discussion. Not just what the other person did or didn’t do.
In fact, in one story the gal said she felt she couldn’t say “no” because that would have made her not a sex positive liberated woman. 😦 How sad is that?!?!? The one message that young people aren’t getting anymore is, “It’s OK to NOT do all this. It’s actually GOOD for you to NOT have these type of experiences!”
so they want to be equal, except when it comes to personal responsibility.
so they want to be equal, except when it comes fitting in to a stereotype that they embrace.
so they want to be equal, but refuse to actually act like a grown adult.
yeah, our society us headed towards ruin.
Soundtrack to this post, bloom;
😉
There’s this thing called “don’t chase game” where the girl has to make all the effort. The law more or less looks at it as if she voluntarily gets alone with you, then it is consent. That said, if you’re a young male, I’d want a long paper trail of the girl putting in effort to prove there was consent.
‘I’m only consenting to having sex with my lawful spouse. Are you my lawful spouse?’
That could be a good starting point.
The reality is even consenting to sex with a strange man still doesn’t take away the residual consequences to it. Which is something they never teach women anymore. Feminism has made almost everyone sexually ignorant.
Who gives a fuck.
Ignore the opposite sex.
Work for you, play with the fruits of your labours.
Use an honest and direct “professional” for release or better yet get the endoirphine rush from climbing, diving, whatever.
Just avoid all this bullshit.
When you think of ALL the things requiring others’ approval, can I touch this, can I sit here, does my (fill in the blank) offend you….and avoid them or just say no, life is Soooo much easier and amusing.
Uh no I am not taking that meeting, no I dont mentor anyone, no I am not going to your mothers, no I didn’t open\hold the door for you, no I will not donate, no I dont buy drinks for anyone, no I’m not using that gym machine, no nobody is sitting there. (The last two followed by getting up and leaving.)
Its amazing how a not fucking caring radiates.
Better still is seeing them throw out signs they would love to say yes….
…if you weren’t IGNORING them!
Ask how many single forty plus year old women where consent…today…is a problem.
They would love to be in a position requiring consent
Like all first world problems this consent bullshit is a very narrow window problem (25-35)
You think Rose McGowan has consent issues today and in the future??
From my perspective, it is fairly simple. “No, I do not have sex before marriage.”
…….
There is no sex after marriage either
‘In fact, in one story the gal said she felt she couldn’t say “no” because that would have made her not a sex positive liberated woman.’
These women are seriously screwed up in the head.
It’s when she starts saying no to her husband you have a problem. No to random man should be her default answer.
Beside the whole idea of consent is a power play anyway.
It’s all about female consent. Has anyone ever heard of a guy consenting and then revoking it after the fact and accused the woman of rape?
‘In fact, in one story the gal said she felt she couldn’t say “no” because that would have made her not a sex positive liberated woman.’
That is quite a dilemma. One where there shouldn’t be a dilemma. Perhaps that is a clue
The herd is too important to women. Even dumb herds.
Absolutely fucking brilliant
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-where-have-all-the-mommies-gone/
“Our remote ancestors never asked that question, any more than cats and dogs do. Children were essential to replenish the tribe and contribute to the collective good. They were a source of labour and a guaranteed old-age plan. They were a way to honour God, to replicate your genes, and to perpetuate the family name.
For half a million years, children were a necessity, a duty and a pleasure – more or less in that order. But now, they are basically a lifestyle choice. And they compete with many other lifestyles, such as being a celebrated author. ..
And now that women have found satisfying lives outside the home, the awful truth has begun to dawn: The maternal instinct can be overcome surprisingly easily.”
No an accident is forgetting what time it is…doing the things to make you childless is a choice.
‘But I am, too. I took my sweet time to settle on a mate because I too was fond of my career. By the time I got around to contemplating my options, they were gone. (Hint to thirty-somethings: Only Rachel Weisz gets pregnant at 48.) Childlessness wasn’t a choice, really. It was more or less an accident, just as it was for millions of other women who had no idea they were creating the second demographic transition.’
RPG,
I am a boy bear. From that standpoint, what is it about consent that makes it complicated? It can’t be. It is either yes or no, Could it be that women want to maintain plausible deniability? If that is the case, then what feminists have done is more than expand the definition of rape, they have made all sex rape. Andrea Dworkin must be having a party in Hell.
The Youtuber TFM made the observation, that because so much weight is given to women’s testimony, it is all over for the man if they have had sex.
This is not going to lead anywhere good, and women will not be happy with it in the least. Sex is the last arrow in women’s quiver and feminists just broke it in two.
Earl’s observation makes sense. This is all about women and power. If consent truly were an issue, men would be considered. They have forgotten that it takes TWO consenting adults.
@fuzzie indeed, all good additional points. It really like all the rest takes sense and flips it to the opposite!
Btw the folk most often involved in domestic violence? Same sex female identifying duos. Yep! (Surprise! Projection, much to say cis males are the abusers?!?)
RPG,
I think it was Erin Pizzey who noticed that first. Lesbian relationships can be extremely violent. There seems to be an inverse correlation to sexual frequency and domestic violence. Gay males have more frequent sex and are the least violent. Heterosexuals are in between. Lesbians have the least and are the more violent. Go figure. This is a topic that feminist academia will never research.
‘This is a topic that feminist academia will never research.’
Because lesbianism ERRRRRRRR the sisterhood is part of the feminist ethos. But it’s probably no suprise the more controlling a woman is the more violent she becomes.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/romance-novels-trump-1.4655482
Headline:How romance novels are getting a makeover in the Trump era
Some romance novelists are rewriting their work to better reflect feminist ideals in today’s political climate
From the article
“MacLean was originally writing about “a man who was intractable and impenetrable, and didn’t understand that his actions hurt people and his actions had repercussions.”
Thinking that description sounded a lot like Trump himself, she decided to create a new hero who wouldn’t take the entire novel to become enlightened. The result is her more recent novel, The Day of the Duchess.
“I wanted him to be that alpha feminist from the very start. I wanted him to believe in his heroine, I wanted him to believe in hope, I wanted him to believe in change, I wanted him to believe in passion and partnership and equality.”
Um yeah.
Make up your mind. Do you get hot at the brooding vandal or the guy in the skirt doing choreplay??
I know!
A Real Man whose sniper rifle is pink screaming “That one is for the girls”
And starting a bar fight because someone said his pot roast was dry!!
This real gets to it.
Women today, in the heat of passion want to be saved as the captive.
Then once they calm down their empowerment says I do it myself as the heroine.
Its the seesaw that creates the issues.
So men pick the one that matches who they are and act accordingly cause men just are.
Then the captive resents the hero talking down to her
As the heroine resents the sidekick for not acting.
So the men say fuck it and go build a cabin in the woods and go hunting, fishing, play poker, be happy….
Re the consent bullshit….
Just google invisible woman syndrome.
Its a self correcting problem.
42 is middle aged
As in statistically you have another 42 years til the average female mortality at 84!!
Anyone wanna talk about the issues of this crowd?
Reduced income, working forever, little socialization, boredom.
LONLINESS!!
Hmmmm. Crickets??
There is nothing to say about the wonderful lives
Of LITERALLY HALF the you go gurls in the west???
(Is it wrong that I feel no empathy for my peers in my age group wandering like zombies thru the abyss?)
‘Re the consent bullshit….
Just google invisible woman syndrome.
Its a self correcting problem.’
That might actually be the heart of the problem. Nobody notices her anymore so she has to sell the female version of wolf tickets about her past sexual liasions to get people to notice her again.
On “invisible women”: Isn’t this the state that men live in constantly? You are invisible unless you do things to create value in yourself. It seems to me that the solution to “invisible woman syndrome” (assuming it can relate to something other than being a youthful sexual commodity) is to be of value. Be useful. Mothers can always be useful to their children, and then their grandchildren, and then their great grandchildren if the started young enough. No one, man or woman, gets to be young and hot forever. If you rest on your laurels and that’s all you have then, yeah, the day will come when you’re invisible because youth is gone … I know guys like that too but who cares, they’re guys. Fix yourself or die alone in poverty. At the same time, invisible is not all downside, at least from a guy’s perspective. It can mean privacy which can lead to freedom. If a guy approaches invisibility because he hasn’t done so well in life, not because of his looks but because of a failing career or health or the like, he can be abandoned by his woman … we shouldn’t forget that one.
I wonder if women’s culture isn’t addicted to Princess stories because a good number (though certainly not all) of women actually get to be a princess; they can “be someone” without actually achieving anything or creating any external value just on the power of their being sexually available. They are “someone” without having done much or anything to earn it. Princess syndrome is addictive to female culture because it’s pretty passive, though perhaps the active part is keeping up your looks.
There’s a legitimate issue for feminism lurking in here. Get active. Build a career, or go out and do good in the world, or make an intelligent choice in a guy and play an instrumental role in the lives of your kids and grandkids, or aid your husband in running a successful family unit. Great! But don’t think you’re an “invisible woman” because of something women lack in comparison to men. Men are invisible from birth. It’s a problem that the spend their lives responding to. It’s possible that women only feel invisibility is unfair because many were at one time “visible” without having to work at it.
No kidding…women don’t really notice you until you are actually doing something. And then they often interrupt what you are doing because your focus isn’t on them.
‘ It’s possible that women only feel invisibility is unfair because many were at one time “visible” without having to work at it.’
Women need to do more than put on ‘look at me’ spandex and taking selfies for instagram to be of any value in a marriage. If their whole value is placed on their body which is a depeciating asset…and don’t work on homemaking/child care skills or have a pleasant personality…they will become invisible.
I just had a terrible thought. What is going to be the outcome when feminists startt applying this to married people? You know that they will try it.
Its my understanding most marriages are no sex/ low sex so I am not sure if consent is really an issue
‘ What is going to be the outcome when feminists startt applying this to married people?’
You have heard of the term ‘marital rape’ haven’t you?
just use the “yes to sex” app for iPhone, and you should be ok. lol
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/05/13/church-ladies/
Earl,
That in conjunction with this consent thing will put a lot of husbands in prison if the feminists go there.
FML,
I have as much faith in consent forms as premarital contracts. Judges are going make them legally worthless. Women will fall back on “duress” or ignorance as an excuse.