break up, break ups, breakup, breakups, dating, marriage, modern life, red pill, serial monogamy, young marriage
I recently saw on Facebook that a young woman I know who is in her early 30s had just gotten out of a treatment facility after a suicide attempt. She admitted she had made multiple attempts in the past year.
I was surprised by this because from an outside view she seemed to come from a good family, have a fun job as a hostess at a local gathering spot, and was attractive and well liked. She comes across as confident, self-assured, and pulled together.
From her profile I could see she had recently been dating someone for about six months, and had several other such semi-long term relationships as well. Most seemed to be musicians. None seemed particularly promising.
Then I noticed a cryptic and nostalgic posting from her to a male friend about a trip they took together years ago. Curious, I clicked on his page and there it was, a photo album he had made of their trip.
Unlike the musicians, I could tell this young man had been serious about this gal. The captions on the photos made it clear he was smitten. I would not doubt he had thought she was, “the one.”
They both would have been in their early 20s then. They looked so happy, so carefree. He seemed like a really solid and loving guy. They looked charmed, innocent. I wonder what happened, why they hadn’t married, if perhaps she had bought the advice to, “not settle down too young.”
Whatever happened it seems she’s never found another who felt for her the way this guy had. I wonder if regrets about this played a role in her current situation?
I know the guys around here will likely have little sympathy for her. Many have been in that young man’s shoes themselves.
Anyway I thought the situation captured some of the modern relationship pitfalls we so often discuss.
I wonder how her life would have been different had she married back then rather than taken a single independent women, serial monogamy path?
It is of course impossible to know. What lies ahead for her is also unclear. I am hoping for the best as always. For our purposes here it’s not so much about her particular case as what can be learned from it in general.
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
Larry G said:
“The only thing better than classy curves on a woman is classy curves on a car.” Totally agree. But remember, at least we can fix cars.
“your dad and your first husband are each just one man; they are not all men.”
This sentiment exactly. Hence why saying AMALT (or AWALT) cannot possibly be true in my experience. Each man is an individual responsible for their own actions, not the actions of all males. Likewise all women are their own person and only accountable for their own actions, not responsible for the actions of all females. Instead, saying EMALT/EWALT is closer to the truth…Enough definitely are like that to warrant being cautious and protective of oneself.
Larry G said:
Horseman, a new and improved Millennial automobile anti-theft device, “three on the tree”
Ames would be pronounced Ay-mm-zz.
Around here adding an s or z sound to the end of a female name is a token of affection or in this case respect.
The Three Treasures of the Tao
Compassion, frugality, humility.
All actions have causality which is the meaning of Verse 64
Always have driven standard. Got my current car cause it was the only one on the lot with a clutch. 6 speed. Amazing how few of my friends can move it.
Ha, I just made a comment over at Spawny’s Space about the same thing, before I came here.
A young girl in her early 20’s, before she has that imprinting from guys she dated early on, is very different than dating a girl who is 30 or older. Speaking from experience. I don’t know how to explain the psychology of it, in the Manosphere you will hear terms like “Alpha Widow” or “High Score Theory”. But I don’t know if those quite capture all the nuances of the phenomenon.
What I do know is that dating a girl who is older, after she has been “imprinted” by those serious emotional relationships of her younger years, it is like something is “gone” from her. Very difficult to get that place with them, and it usually requires a serious dose of push-pull and amused mastery. Emotional roller coaster. Like they are heroin addicts and they need an even bigger dose now just to get high.
Roger Blakely MGTOW said:
I just donated to a GoFundMe page for the most beautiful girl in my high school. Now we are all fifty years old. She was the most Vogue-ready of any of them. She ended up working in the fashion industry, in a retailer’s back office operations. She never married. She never had kids. Today she is destitute.
I am becoming convinced that being incredibly beautiful is a curse. Being so beautiful has been especially hazardous since we have lived in the don’t-need-no-man era. These women do need a man. They need a man desperately. You can be that beautiful, but it doesn’t really make big-time improvements in your life unless you can close the deal. The beauty has to attract a high-value husband. And you have to stay married to him to get the goodies over a period of decades.
An ex-girlfriend of mine died a few months ago. When people ask me what she died of, I say, “She died of the idea that she was a strong, independent woman who didn’t need a man.” She was never a strong, independent woman, and she was never good at taking care of herself. Now she’s dead.
Larry G said:
Roger, man or woman, regardless of relationships in this life, we all will die sooner or later. Beauty in a woman’s youth means nothing as you said…
“You can be that beautiful, but it doesn’t really make big-time improvements in your life unless you can close the deal. The beauty has to attract a high-value husband. And you have to stay married to him to get the goodies over a period of decades.”
Some women will, some won’t. Those that manage to stay fairly content, win. That is, until the game is called and everyone has to cash in their chips.
David Foster said:
“I am becoming convinced that being incredibly beautiful is a curse.” Sometimes is, doesn’t have to be…it’s sort of like great athletic skills for a guy. Lots of athletes enjoy their fame in college, may go professional and make a lot of $$, but if they don’t invest their money wisely and/or develop other skills, they’re mostly not going to be in great shape when they’re 55.
I have known some quite-beautiful women who have done very well, professionally and marriage-wise, in their 40s and later.
Larry G said:
Roger, the best two things my wife has ever said to me were “I’m thankful for what you have given me.” and “I’m content with my life.” All the rest is gravy.
ahhh, thank you, Horseman 🙂
i’m truly humbled and honored 🙂
Copperfox – What I do know is that dating a girl who is older, after she has been “imprinted” by those serious emotional relationships of her younger years, it is like something is “gone” from her.
yes. everything in our life leaves an ‘imprint.’ and yes, it is exactly like something is ‘gone’ from her, because it is. we women leave a part of ourselves behind. all those relationships have a part of us, and that part is now gone. when a part of us is gone, we have an emotional reaction and a physical/mental response to that. the older a woman is, the more ‘imprints’ she will have on her life … and the more relationships she’s had, the more parts of her that are ‘gone’ – for better or for worse.
Is she destitute by some tragedy? Then yes the gift of compassion.
If it was by her life choices then why contribute to her causality?
A generous soul is a good thing but to enable drifting from the consequences of ones actions is not. Not judging, just not much info to go on.
P.s. my first reaction to most gofundme is disengenuious.
Some are worthy charitable situations e.g. a fire ,
A few products of startups for capitalization e.g. a book or gizmo.
Most are “please give me money cause Im in this group de jour and really want it e.g. the pretty girl needing college money.
a feel-good video – kudos to this kid’s dad for letting him do it by himself!
“My foo-ist fee-ish!”
A young girl in her early 20’s, before she has that imprinting from guys she dated early on, is very different than dating a girl who is 30 or older. Speaking from experience.
This is hardly a gendered occurrence though. The same thing happens with men. I only really began dating when I was 23 because I had a lot of work to do on myself after leaving my religious community, many ideas about relationships, faith, and gender roles to shift through and decide to either keep or discard. But yes, the same-age men I dated in my 20s are very different than the ones I’m currently dating in my 30s/almost 40s. Sometimes I will date a male in his 40s, and they have the most baggage by far. Especially if they are divorced, which is the majority of single men over 30.
What I do know is that dating a girl who is older, after she has been “imprinted” by those serious emotional relationships of her younger years, it is like something is “gone” from her.
Both sexes experience this. It’s simply the natural loss of innocence and naivety from growing up and actually interacting with the world and society as a whole. Being exposed to new ideas, meeting truly successful people that inspire you to do better, dealing with assholes that shock you with their rudeness or crass behavior, having sex for the first time, having fantastic sex for the first time, traveling to another country or area of your own country, meeting someone of a very different culture, etc. All these things help add to a man’s or woman’s life experience and build them up as a complete person instead of leaving them as a naive child, full of wonder but also unaware of dangers and various truths. I don’t imagine you have ever dated any men though, so there’d be no way for you to see that dating a 20-something boy is quite different than dating a 40-something one. Just like how I’ve never dated women, and have to rely on accounts from people like yourself who have.
Very difficult to get that place with them, and it usually requires a serious dose of push-pull and amused mastery. Emotional roller coaster. Like they are heroin addicts and they need an even bigger dose now just to get high.
I’m not sure this part is the same, but I’m also not entirely sure what the terms you’ve used mean or refer to. I will say that it is difficult to truly connect with men the older they get, due to the emotional walls and mental fortresses they’ve built up over the years. This is the “bad” side of life experience. If one doesn’t do as mgtowhorseman and I have, namely cultivating a state of acceptance for the ebb and flow of relationships, understanding that they are good to have but not necessary, one can get seriously burned. Being burned enough times leads to an individual becoming jaded rather than knowledgeable. There are more than a handful of men who I had to say goodbye to after only a few dates because the amount of unreconciled baggage they had regarding relationship expectations and women in general was just too much to unpack. Usually these males are either recent divorcees or got out of a toxic LTR with a manipulative woman and now believe AWALT. There’s no way for me to create a meaningful relationship with such a person because they are unable to see or appreciate me as an individual… just a different looking stand-in for the last woman in their lives.
On the other hand, some older men have been hurt but are working on healing themselves. These are the ones who I’ll gladly help bring back out of their shells and open the door to their inner fortress. When you finally see a man you’ve been dating for months cry, or make him truly laugh, or coax a genuine relaxed smile out of him… it’s wonderful. You are able to get a look at the young, innocent boy he used to be before the world got to him. I’ll agree with you that it is difficult to bring them back to that place though.
@Ame: Yes exactly, and it’s one of the reasons I tend to date women under 30 or thereabouts. I don’t think women realize how problematic this is. If you go to more traditional countries though, like in East Asia, you will see the older women harping on the younger ones for being too “old” to find a man by the time they are 25.
I feel like the older women know the truth.
@Dawn: Well I don’t date men so I wouldn’t know … lol
But to my point, I think because of the difference in the way men and women love, that “lost part” of themselves due to imprinting by past loves takes a greater toll on women. That is what I meant by the emotional rollercoaster you have to put those women thru in order to connect.
Roger Blakely said:
Yes, Mr. Mgtowhorseman, you are right. But in this case the post was sent to my high school class. Since I had reached out to her a couple of years ago, right after the high school reunion that she didn’t attend, I feel some obligation to make a token contribution. But it is obvious that a few hundred dollars from her friends won’t solve her problem. This is probably the last anyone will hear from her as she sinks into oblivion.
Perhaps. I don’t know. I think our experiences sound roughly the same. Until you start dating men and I start dating women, it seems we’ll never know if the toll is greater or not.
Farm Boy said:
There is a new post at Spawny’s
Farm Boy said:
There is a new post at Spawny’s
Ok this is so funny because its true!!
wow! do y’all really get bears in the yard like that?!
Watching two deer along the fence as we speak. Fox about an hour ago. Coyotes up by the creek. Opossum, porcupine, friggin raccoons, skunk.
Removed a full grown robin from the kitchen earlier, one of the cats brought it in, unharmed. Flew away.
No really large predators like bear or wolf. Bobcat maybe.
And I am exactly 11 km from Walmart and 18 from CFB Trenton.
But our wildlife is very well mannered.
The raccoons leave little notes saying “Sorry for the mess.”
that’s awesome 🙂
and the kitty didn’t hurt the birdie! ahhh!!! 🙂
my husband talks about critters like they’re normal. but, again, he spent much of his growing up years in the country … hunting … fishing … bailing hay 🙂
and … i grew up literally down the street from the beach … “How’s the surf today? What’s the tide?!” 😉
and the accent 😉
been a looong time since i’ve traveled outside the south 😉
b g said:
Over here on Vancouver Island, many of us routinely get bears and deer in our yards. They come in to eat the apples and grapes, only sows with cubs are considered a possible threat. Mama bears have no sense of humour ;-D
BG – wow! y’all live in some really cool places!
bears and deer in your yards? wow! so i’m assuming you have apple trees and grape vines? that’s really cool.
here in Texas we have fire ants! LOL! i hate fire ants! death to the ants!!!!!!! (or so i wish 🙂 )
only sows with cubs are considered a possible threat. Mama bears have no sense of humour ;-D
LOL! ummm … that’s true for human Mama’s, too – or at least the good ones (can’t count my mom in that group). my husband says i’m pretty passive … till you mess with my kids! then i immediately take on this whole different creature! LOL! he’s right 🙂
my girls finally got to that age where they’d begin with, “Mom, you’re not going to do anything. This is mine!” while they zip tie me to the chair! lol! 🙂
Alan Kardec said:
Horseman: “Always have driven standard. Got my current car cause it was the only one on the lot with a clutch. 6 speed. Amazing how few of my friends can move it.”
LOL! Find someone who can drive a stick with no synchros these days … that too is a dying art!
Paddle shifting on new cars.
For neck beard wannabes. One of the signs of the apocalypse.
Self driving cars?
You can pry the steering wheel out of my cold dead hands.
(Dealing with a plodding porcupine on a foggy night down an unmarked gravel road while hauling a 20 foot fishing boat with software built by the makers of Windows 10)
I have empathy for people like this. But I wont enable them.
I’ve dated and seen plenty of older women who’s life hasn’t been what she wanted. Maybe she has a multiple husbands who have left her for one reason or the other. It’s never her fault. Ever. Her failure usually rests in a bad Choice. Yet not anything to do with her or her thought processes.
These women live a mile of complete lies. Everything is compartmentalized and segregated. No one person knows too much. It comes from not accepting our roles in life. We are lead to believe in grandness of life at a Marco level. Not micro level.
Do you look st the universe and feel insignificant or amazed at the spectacle? How do you raise you raise your kids? To embrace what they have and hold on to it or yearn and desire for more?
Our relationships are reflections of ourselves. If we have problems we need to look inwards.
b g said:
Yeah, we can grow most things except citrus and melons; the season is long, but the truly hot weather is insufficient. But my late wife truly had a green thumb, so we grew apples, pears, peaches, nectarines, cherries, grapes, figs, blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, currants, hazelnuts, and walnuts plus a huge garden full of vegetables.
I laughed like hell when she complained that some damned bug was eating all of her green beans, I just showed her the deer droppings and started building the fence ;-D
ahhh, BG … i bet you miss her terribly. that’s amazing she could grow so many things.
the last little plant i brought home died a pathetic death. i really did try. i don’t get what i’m doing wrong! at least my girls got a little entertainment out of it 🙂
b g said:
Yeah, big time, males are actually the true romantics ;-D
She inherited her drive and skills from her grandfather, who commercially grew Gladiolas for weddings and melons for grocery stores. I has to really read and scramble to try to keep ahead of her just to do the “lift that bale and load that tote’, so much for leading ;-D
BTW, most deaths of inside plants are caused by overwatering.
it’s beautiful you have such fond memories of your wife. it’s beautiful her grandfather passed onto her something to tangible and valuable. i love all of that. i love how you talk about her 🙂
leading is not about having more knowledge … (most) anyone can have knowledge. it’s an internal strength … a willingness and ability to be strong and decisive when necessary. yielding to her greater knowledge, when she has greater knowledge, is not a reflection of lack of leadership … rather it’s a reflection of the strength of leadership. knowing when to draw the line and being willing to do so, whenever and whatever that might mean in any given situation, is leadership.
– – –
i probably did over water that last plant … then overcompensated by under watering. ugh. i need more brain memory space 🙂
b g said:
LOL, I was joking, I never worried about leadership. We both knew that I would always be held responsible, so I needed to have the final choice. But she usually got her way if we could possibly handle it ;-D
We were both raised in the ’50’s, when we finally got TV as kids, it was always Father Knows Best, I love Lucy, Lassie, etc. Those days were much kinder and gentler than now, probably because both sexes genuinely liked the other.
i’m very gullible … i’ll believe most everything unless i know someone really well 🙂
i love your story, just the little bit you’ve shared … it’s, beautiful 🙂
b g said:
LOL, don’t worry about it, both my wife and myself always were as advertised ;-D
“I just donated to a GoFundMe page for the most beautiful girl in my high school. Now we are all fifty years old. She was the most Vogue-ready of any of them. She ended up working in the fashion industry, in a retailer’s back office operations. She never married. She never had kids. Today she is destitute.
I am becoming convinced that being incredibly beautiful is a curse. Being so beautiful has been especially hazardous since we have lived in the don’t-need-no-man era.
What are the ugly girls from that high school class doing these days?
Have you stayed in touch or looked them up?
Beauty is a gift, not a curse. For all sorts of reasons (people give you things and are nicer to you, for starters…job interviews are a lot easier too, the list goes on and on).
It does suck to be beautiful and stupid.
Sucks a whole lot worse to be ugly and stupid.
Dawn's boyfriend, Clark said:
This will probably be my only comment here, as I’ve restricted myself from going onto Red Pill blogs and subs and am only using Dawn’s phone to post this. But I just wanted to say thank you for not mocking, degrading, or slut-shaming her, even after she left. She’s gotten enough undeserved vitriol in PMs from men on Reddit and it’s a relief to see it’s not so here. We’ve only been dating for 8 months but I can honestly say she is like a breath of fresh air after knowing what most women are like, including my disgusting, physically abusive beast of an ex-wife.
Prior to meeting Dawn, I was fully Red Pill and MGTOW for 6 years. I believed AWALT, thought all women were hypergamous, would only ever see me as a provider, didn’t actually enjoy sex for sex sake, were emotional rather than logical creatures, had much lower IQ, incapable of being empathetic towards men, had over 30 different sexual partners (compared to my measly 6 before getting hitched) and absolutely needed to be led in a relationship, could never even hope to be an equal. I thought they all were Democrats and Socialists, would throw any male under the bus in exchange for government money, and that all of them wanted kids (something I’ve never seen myself doing…in fact, I got a vasectomy at 21, an interesting fact when you learn my ex-wife got pregnant only 2 years into our marriage… when I was 25. Guess the bitch didn’t believe me when I said I could medically prove it wasn’t mine). They are disloyal, flighty, manipulative, solipsistic, and cannot truly connect with men on a mental or emotional level. Essentially, everything bad about women was always in the forefront of my mind, reinforced daily by the subreddits I followed.
The women I attempted to date after my divorce, even though they claimed to be traditionalist and conservative, only further served to prove everything I knew about the female of our species. And yes, I did indeed become a misogynist, and an outspoken one at that. What else can you be after swallowing the Red Pill and being around others who constantly uphold your belief that women are inferior? Fuck, I even argued that women should never have gotten the right to vote, and did my fair share of hypocritical slut shaming of beautiful, freely sexual women like Dawn, even as I was taking them to my bed. Yeah, I currently have the same number of sex partners as her, but I would have called her a slut while patting myself on the back if I was still RP… that’s how fucked up I was. It is with a heavy soul that I look back on some of the things I wrote online and held in my heart as truth. I want to say I’m a completely changed man now, but it’s going to take a while longer for me to get rid of the poisonous parts of this ideology. Thankfully, it seems I’ve found one of the rare women who are legitimately non-hypergamous, egalitarian, has an intelligence and yearning for knowledge that matches my own, apparently doesn’t know how to shit test, can compartmentalize her feelings away when they’re unnecessary, will never try to wrangle me into marriage. Dating her is like dating a man with a vagina and tits… there’s no drama, ever, and everyday we’re together it feels like I’m dreaming.
So when Dawn told me about this place, a blog run by a so-called “red pill woman” who allowed men to comment…God, I thought it would either be a shit show of pathetic, low self-esteem women debasing their entire sex for the male commenters to jerk off to, or a type of “recruitment” blog to turn the few remaining egalitarian women into subservient bitches. Needless to say, it’s good to see that’s not the case here. Although the Red Pill ideology would destroy what I have with Dawn if I followed it, I don’t begrudge anyone else from using it when it clearly works for them and their families. Just don’t follow my path and forget that women are individuals too, not all are deserving of your righteous anger.
Thank you once again for not being harsh to her while she was here, and for proving that men and women can still have civil conversations online. Cheers.
Thanks for commenting Clark! We are pretty civilized around here and try to keep things positive. 🙂 I am glad things are working so well w/ you and Dawn. I don’t have anything against two grown consenting adults defining a relationship on their own terms and being open and honest about it. Especially when there aren’t kids involved and like in your case won’t be. Marriage and the traditional thing aren’t for everyone and consciously choosing that is a far cry from slutting around, in my mind. We used to have another commenter, Tarn, who was very similar to Dawn and she also lived a non traditional life and was always welcome. One day for no apparent reason Tarn just stopped posting and we all hope she’s OK. Feel free to drop by and add to the conversation anytime!
thank you, Clark. i hope she knows we care. you are both welcome here.
While that may be true for many men, Earl is one of those Christian men who I believe would agree that sex outside of marriage is sin for all, and that all women and men would be better off if they were virgins until they married in their 20s to another Christian.
From what I hear of the statistics, the percentage of autistic women is small. Much of your description of her seems to be common in autists. Perhaps autistic women could advertise these qualities to enable them to find good men who appreciate them. It would seem this would be a win-win situation.