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advice, break up, breaking up, breakup, breakups, divorce, finances, financial problems, income, marriage, marriage problems, red pill, retirement, seperation, unemployment
A friend whose husband was recently laid off from a high level executive job confessed the other day that she doesn’t know what to do.
They have been married since she was 24, he 31. They are very much a “Barbie and Ken” type couple and make a striking pair. She’s now 49, he’s 56. Both still look very young for their age.
They waited several years after marriage to start a family and now have three teenage sons ranging in age from middle school to a senior in high school.
She was a career gal in her 20s and early 30s and then has been a stay at home mom since the kids arrived. She dabbles in fixing up and reselling vintage furniture and other part time activities to make extra pocket money. She’s contemplated going back to work but admitted there’s no way she could earn enough to meet their expenses.
He has had a successful career in management, working his way up to the executive level. He’s worked for many household name companies over the years, increasing his skill set and marketability. His most recent job, the one recently lost, paid $190k a year.
Like many American couples they have saved little over the years despite his income, mostly because they live right at or perhaps even above their means. They do own their home but after a recent extensive remodel and expansion have little or no equity in it.
As one might imagine, with little cushion to absorb this unexpected blow, she’s panicking. She opened up to me that their marriage is struggling and she’s been contemplating divorce.
Knowing the red pill, I wasn’t shocked at all by this and was glad she shared it with me. I explained to her that the feelings she was having are a normal knee jerk reaction women often have during such times of crisis, but that having such feelings did not necessarily mean they needed to be acted upon.
Women are hardwired to survive, and self-preservation is a natural go-to mode in crisis. This drive is a primative one, coming from deep within the brain stem. It’s the same drive that allows women to survive disasters, wars, famine, disease, kidnapping, rape, and other threats to survival. (See “war bride theory” for more in depth explanation of this. https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/)
The problem with this urge is it doesn’t come from a logical, reasoned place and unchecked it can lead to disasterous decisions or overreactions when survival isn’t truly at stake but it just feels like it is.
My friend seemed relieved to get these dark thoughts about abandoning ship out of her head and to understand just because she has such feelings doesn’t mean she must act upon them or that they were even in her best interest.
We discussed some alternatives, and also talked about how the current marriage struggles seemed to be situational rather than unresolvable. I helped her understand what her husband might be feeling, and how pulling together as a team would be far more constructive than splitting apart.
I also verbalized what I suspect might have been her biggest fear — at his age he may not find another job at that income level. I have seen many men (and women) downsized a decade short of retirement face this. Unfortunately the work world can be brutal, and often companies will hire the younger candidate for less than someone in their late 50s. It’s ageism, but often not directly so. She admitted this was a huge concern.
Then we switched to outside the box mode. One reason for their home remodel is that her husband dreams of running a bed and breakfast in retirement. He’s burned out in his career, and has been longing to shift gears for some time.
Downstairs they have two spare rooms with bathrooms that are fully ADA compliant. What did she think of the idea of leasing those rooms out right now to two elderly folks looking for an assisted living situation, I asked? Last I heard such arrangements paid up to $2,000 a month, or more. (Still less than assisted living or a retirement home, so such rentals are much sought after.) I saw a light of hope click on.
She also shared they have a fully wired and plumbed RV hookup on the back side of their 10-acre property. Again I asked had they considered renting that spot as well? They are going for $600+ a month and it’s hard to find an available space. Turned out she knows a young couple building a home that are looking for just such an arrangement!
I could see the tension dissipate as she realized these options that are already ready and waiting could help make up for their current lack of income and also supplement it to the tune of $4600 a month so that if her husband can’t replace his $190k salary, it would still be OK. If he could, then they could plow that income into savings and be well set up for retirement vs. not having any.
She could hardly wait to get home to share these ideas with her husband, and seemed completely excited at the idea of taking in some borders. They both love to entertain and love people, so she seemed jazzed at the thought. (It wouldn’t work for everyone but for them may be a perfect fit. She would still be able to be with her sons and work from home.)
She was almost in tears as she thanked me for being a sounding board and for helping her brainstorm some solutions. I told her I was happy to and thanked her for opening up so I was able to, and that I hoped the ideas would help take the pressure off.
Without what I have learned via the red pill and the manosphere I don’t think I would have been able to understand the dynamics at play or advise her why she felt as she did, or why despite those fear-based feelings, the best path was to stay the course, stick together, face the challenge, and not just survive but thrive.
I am hoping they put the ideas into play quickly and take some of the financial pressure and strain off their marriage. I will be doing my best to encourage her through this storm.
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
OT –
An 11-year-old boy on Friday was able to hack into a replica of the Florida state election website and change voting results found there in under 10 minutes during the world’s largest yearly hacking convention, DEFCON 26, organizers of the event said.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/an-11-year-old-changed-election-results-on-a-replica-florida-state-website-in-under-10-minutes
The other premise it hangs on…”. As a group, who has the strength to impose the ethic of no work, no eat?”
And I give you San Fransico, Venezuala, the new socialist whatshername.
If I was her husband, I’d make the move and divorce this no-good, opportunistic b*tch ASAP.
The guy did yeoman’s work in providing for her ungrateful ass for all those years. Granted, he should’ve led the family better by not permitting them to live at or beyond their means, but now that the chips are down, her first thought is to leave him, rather than her first thought being how they could reverse their luck as a team and make things work. As if at 49 years of age with 3 kids she’s going to be such a catch out there…. please. RP Girl had to suggest all these potential solutions, they didn’t spring to the woman’s mind on her own.
I understand the concept of a man not having an expectation of relational equity with a woman, but this story is a prime example of why it’s a bad idea for a man to get married. Life has its ups and downs, but if a woman is going to look for the exit door as her first reaction when things are down or you hit a rough patch, why bother?
Ame…”An 11-year-old boy on Friday was able to hack into a replica of the Florida state election website and change voting results found there in under 10 minutes during the world’s largest yearly hacking convention, DEFCON 26, organizers of the event said.”
Actually, it apparently wasn’t the legally-binding voting results; it was just a website used the the state to report returns to the public & the media. Still bad, but would not have changed the outcome of the election.
(Paper ballots are the way to go, IMO. It won’t kill people to wait a day or two for the count)
btw, a lot of good, very thoughtful comments on this thread
The other premise it hangs on…”. As a group, who has the strength to impose the ethic of no work, no eat?”
And I give you San Fransico, Venezuala, the new socialist whatshername.
If they don’t eat in San Francisco, that would fix their “shit in the streets” problem
‘Life has its ups and downs, but if a woman is going to look for the exit door as her first reaction when things are down or you hit a rough patch, why bother?’
This is why along with abortion laws…no fault laws needs to die in a tire fire.
I’m going to suggest that we (as a culture) have some work to do on agreements. There was a time, before contracts, before responsible government, when a man would die before breaking his word … or be discredited and banished from the functional society of those who did. The market of commitments sorted out those too unreliable or incompetent to keep up. As a system it was like many natural things, it was extreme and didn’t tolerate nuance. Contracts were better, especially on the nuance side.
So we enter into an era of contracts but nuance gets the better of us; the Constitution vs contemporary laws hundreds of pages long, laws no one can understand, laws with loopholes built in. It’s been getting worse for awhile. Initially, the force of society kept people to their contracts. Long, detailed, and highly negotiable documents killed that; after all, who knew what other people’s contracts actually said. Hell, a lot of people don’t know what their OWN contracts say.
Marriage contracts, the fundamental contract that is marriage, pre nups, etc. These seemed like an answer when people lost the fear that god would hurl a thunderbolt their way if they didn’t toe the line. As we drift away from traditional religion it’s hard for the culture to enforce whatever rules there used to be.
There are a lot of people who share the Subjective (in this case some might call it Post Modern) viewpoint that there is no 100% Objective reality, thus everything is negotiable, fudgeable, debatable. I might even agree with them in the strictest interpretation … BUT I don’t think that it is a state to strive for, quite the opposite. Acknowledging that nothing is ever 100%, we should try to get as close to 100% as possible. Post Modernism is useful an occasional thought tool, an experiment to check your own BS, not a freaking dogma.
The Subjective has been a big part of women’s culture since before language. That’s not to say it doesn’t appeal to some men too. More and more, I fear. But, because of their lack of immediately available power, women had to appeal to emotion, trickery, complexity, and ambiguity. Those qualities probably increased everyone’s (men’s and women’s) intelligence, sensitivity, and no doubt also increased the scope and depth of every language. But it is a constant challenge to Objectivity and, in this example, coherent and trusted agreements.
There has probably been an ebb and flow over the millennia where humans often approached the edge of agreements breaking down. The modern contract flowing out of the a man holding to his word being the most recent. The way forward possibly lies within our concept of agreements between men and women.
Many here consider the issue of rape claims vs the strength of supposedly SIWs. Many decry the fact that a pre nup can be nullified by a woman’s claim of “being so in love she’d sign anything.” It’s crazy that a man’s life can be ruined by having to support an ex-wife who actually has more capacity for employment these days than he does. Add in marriage and you have a system that is collapsing left and right. BOTH sexes need better, more realistic agreements or everyone is going to opt out. The Subjective types have added so much emotion and ambiguity and subtlety to the system that is can barely function.
This may require breaking down two of women’s sacred institutions. Marriage (or, in this case being a BRIDE) and alimony. If we can get away from women’s desperation to be Princess For A Day and insist that Marriage (if undertaken at all) is only ever coldly and Objectively undertaken. And if we accept that, given that the economy we live in is equally beneficial to women, and thus alimony is no longer a thing, we might have a chance. Obviously DNA tests being required for child support might be another aspect. Marriage needs to be equal or it needs to go and be replaced with a clearer social contract. One that both parties want to engage in. Of course this can get messed up, like with government paying women to be mothers and similar issues. It’s NOT going to be easy or clean. It’s not going to be something everyone likes and it may not be something that anyone is really in control of. First thing, and this is where the feminism freak out is occurring; we have to accept a loss of control. In the grand scheme of things it’s not like anyone has a choice.
I’m only screwing around with the edges of the issues, I really don’t understand them all. But if they are not more fair, if men and woman can’t find peace, then a different system will pass us by, perhaps briefly, perhaps forever. People, however, have been working this stuff out since the beginning of time. It will happen. A balance will be restored either now or a thousand years from now. Intermediate steps could be force (from one side or the other), a new religion, a new sense of meeting our obligations.
If you look back across human history you can see it has happened in the past, where did the idea of formal marriage come from to begin with? What IS interesting is that we are here at the moment when THIS renegotiation is being considered and we are a part, maybe an important part, of the discussion. It’s actually pretty interesting, and highly civilized, that it’s a discussion at ALL!
it’s just like the people who are saying that financial abuse = domestic violence. Or that tax cuts are like Armageddon.
over exaggeration to try to support their position…
Yikes! That was TOO long. LOL!
according to the judge in my divorce case, the marriage was worth 40.59% of my retirement pay, for the STBX. lol
So that’s how much incentive they give women to blow up their marriage and families.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/08/13/using-sex-as-a-weapon/
Or what some call “hate speech” is physical violence
according to the judge in my divorce case, the marriage was worth 40.59% of my retirement pay, for the STBX. lol
my Oldest and i were talking just this evening about how/why their dad was able to do something with a court order, and i told her that when you divorce, the court now has control … and if you can get a judge to sign off on it, then … well, i guess depending on which side of the coin you’re on, you’re either elated or screwed.
@ Alan, “Yikes! That was TOO long. LOL!”
Not at all! Lots of interesting breaking it down stuff going on in your and other’s comments! Please continue… 🙂
@fml ouch re 40.59%.
I am sure this is probably not much comfort but imho she’s a fool to think that’s better than you both having 100% together. 😦
In my previous post I said Dawn (and others) escaped, only because there was someone other than herself to rescue her.
Maybe better said only because there was a place to escape to. My original wording could be interpreted that I thought Dawn was not capable of rescuing herself. I only meant to say that one can remove themselves from a situation, dogma or not, only if there is some other place to go that will receive them. Dawn (and others) are fortunate in that regard. There are no doubt many others who did not have that other place to receive them, and so had to stay.
@Horseman – thanks for the kind words.
Bottom line for me on the subject being discussed here and elsewhere: throughout history, there have been a number of major social collapses, for whatever reason. Yet here you and I sit, talking to each other online. Seems that humans have a way of pulling themselves out of the rubble and connecting in a way that creates other people, regardless of the ups or downs of a particular society or government. Men and women will probably continue to get pregnant right up until the elements melt with ferverent heat (a Biblical reference). And he will be he, and she will be she (genetics based, you know), and the same old struggle between the two will continue. But so will babies, if history is any guide.
She’s set herself up for homelessness, by taking on a $164k mortgage on her “income”. It already tastes delicious…
It has been an interesting time reading about Red Pill people, both here and on other blogs, and I thank most of you (those who were not condescending or dismissive) for the conversations we had. However, this kind of lifestyle is antithetical to the one I live and is most fulfilling, and there are very few opinions here that are relatable or that I’d ever use in my relationships.
My current boyfriend and I actually had a long discussion last night about Red Pill beliefs, and I was surprised to find out he used to hold them himself not too long ago. He dived into it 6 years ago during his divorce, but dropped them recently because he realized they were putting a lens of automatic distrust, paranoia, and misogyny over every single interaction he had with women, to the point he found himself constantly questioning why the female cashier at McDonald’s remembered his order or why a woman held the door open for him at the bank or why I was fine paying for his dinner at our Libertarian meetup when his card declined. Basically why any woman would be kind to him without expectation of reciprocation, because “women are hypergamous only act in ways that serve her”…or not. He told me that he wants to stay far away from anything involving this belief system, and highly recommended I do too. As he put it “If I was still into that stuff, I’d say you’re a NAWALT. Sifting through that kind of stuff will be useless for you, because your brain doesn’t work like the men and women there say it does. It’d be like an eagle trying to learn what it’s like to be a hivemind seagull.”
I thought about it this morning, and have determined he is correct. I have already escaped from a background that desperately tried to force unequal tradcon beliefs about men, women, and relationships onto me… beliefs that, had I followed them, would have made my partners and I miserable, putting us into roles we didn’t want and aren’t good at. There’s no reason for me to read about it online.
For what it’s worth, I do hope that those of you with partners who are into this lifestyle continue to find happiness in it. Have a good life, everyone. May you always be true to yourselves instead of what others say you are.
@earl: and we were on the way to buying a home with no mortgage, after selling our house. now both of us will have a mortgage, with less income.
another bad choice financially.
and a prime example of the need to eject, when red flags are waived at you.
@ Dawn it was nice to meet you and I have enjoyed reading your comments. I can see how your background would affect how you perceive the red pill ideas. I am not at all advocating men and women interact as you were raised but I can see how it might seem to be that. I am not advocating oppression or abuse by any means, but a return to a healthy dynamic between men and women, a collaborative and constructive one rather than an adversarial one (battle of the sexes) so popular today. From what you have described you have found something that works for you. It likely would not work widescale, but that isn’t what matters on an individual level. Because you don’t have and won’t have children or marry, a lot of this doesn’t apply in your situation, so it does seem pointless to continue to follow it. I wish you much happiness!
@ Richard P so true, thru all of history we have somehow muddled thru even some very dark times. And I am sure that will be the case going forward.
Dawn
Best of luck. It is nice to see a person firm in thier convictions and still open to new ideas. Stop by once in a while.
Walk in peace.
@RPG and mgtowhorseman
Thank you very much, and I hope you continue to have much happiness in your lives and relationships! I think it is correct to say that what I have is not what would work on a large scale, but what you discuss here wouldn’t work for me either. It’s like you’re talking about proper ways to raise horses, but I’m over here raising chickens lol. Different strokes for different folks!
Have a wonderful day, all.
Indeed Dawn, and I come from perhaps the polar opposite of how you were raised, which has its own drawbacks. So this is more directed at folks raised to see the world more like the gal in this post, where everything is based upon feelings and situational. We have all benefited from your point of view, thanks for sharing your thoughts and you are always welcome here!
I agree with Dawn to a certain extent. People who are distinctly of either the Red or Blue Pill persuasion can get a bit over the top at times. I take that as either our experimenting with ideas (thus needing them to be fairly unadulterated in order to consider them clearly) or having the enthusiasm (or extremism) of the typical new convert. However, there is also an aspect that I find myself thinking a lot about — “boundries” and how, once we let them down, they often need to be reset rather firmly.
One of the basics of modern Progressiveism has been the breaking down of barriers, opening up interpersonally, racially, economically, academically, nationalistically, etc. I’m not going to go into all of these but you can probably see that some aspect of this is behind nearly every concept of the Left. While I have my suspicions about some of the intent behind all this I see no reason to not accept a good deal of it as beneficial and, beneficial or not, it seems best to make the most of the best aspects. We are not going to turn back time. Whether it’s all good and regardless of it’s underlying intent certain amounts of “opening up” should be celebrated. We’ve all been the beneficiaries to some extent, let’s find a way to adjust it and make the most of it.
Starting after (or a bit before) WWII this breaking down of human barriers really got rolling. When I was a teenager in the 1970s the first classes that used euphemistic labels like “psychology” to teach, not a technical academic discipline, but the “pop” psychology of the day showed up. It was all supposed to break us free from (and undercut) the establishment, the square or old fashioned culture of the period. It succeeded. We were made “free to be you and me” but really mostly Me, Me, Me. People joke about the 1970s being the “Me decade” but that was ALWAYS going to be an outgrowth of nearly every progressive, social, counter cultural movement from the late ’40 until now. I’m guessing that “Me” has gotten vastly more idiosyncratic that the beatniks who cooked it up ever imagined.
We have to accept that it led to a lot of fun, prolonged adolescence, a growing lack of responsibility and an unbelievable (some might say unhealthy) flexibility in the way we view life. On the other hand we needed to except the fundamental restrictions of culture to move on. We did need to open up, be expressive, be given permission to move beyond the restrictions of prewar culture. Fine. It’s been a great run. A massive society wide wave. It might be time to accept some limitations, to explore where it all went too far. You aren’t strong unless you can reconsider, or hold fast against actual challenges.
We here and other places are involved in discussing how to reconsider and adjust. We are not the only ones. Today’s psychology, “pop” and otherwise, is obsessed with “boundaries.” That field is already working on pulling people back from the brink of not knowing where they end and others begin. Basically, the field that started the madness is already applying the brakes. It isn’t willing to step out in public and recommend that society do what it is recommending individually but it has, even if it doesn’t really admit it, identified the problem.
The internet, the medium that we are using to find our own sense of the limits, was a last minute disrupter. Even as people started rediscovering some barriers, this way of connecting all people had no alternative but to break more of them down. It’s not the disaster it sometimes seems, it’s just a last minute explosion of the “break down all barriers” idea given a huge push by some powerful technology.
If we are going to move forward the next step is accepting that there ARE some healthy boundaries, distinctions, and limitations. They need not be the same as the ugliest prejudice, in fact they help us form clear ideas and clear language. There ARE true human behaviors (something The Red Pill is a philosophy for accepting or admitting) and they can not be overcome, or accepted in useful ways, until we can call them what they are and be honest about if they apply to our lives or not. Post Modernism, subjectivism, relativism, that sense that everything is everything or that there are no real distinctions is useful for teaching a certain humility but, in the end, humans spent 150,000 years developing precise language — it’s utter folly to try and go backwards now!
There is a lot of negativity in Red Pill discussions. That comes from people insisting that certain realistic observations are going to be the RULES … forever. One thing the PUA community discussed were ways of turning the rules to a man’s advantage. The next stage, one we should be considering, is how to CHANGE the rules. Men need to rediscover their boundaries … we are well on our way to that change. Women need to required to honestly consider their current behavior and it’s ramifications … that is next and, believe me, a generation of 60 year old never married’s will do some reconsidering. What men and women want to do about it once women (and men) are more aware of themselves is for the future. Let’s go one step at a time. As I keep saying, the outcome is not going to be particularly predictable or comfortable for everyone but there WILL be an outcome. We’ll be happier about whatever it is if we are a part of creating it.
yes there is an equivalent:
https://goo.gl/images/1PGHei
i disagree. there should be no-fault laws. what needs to change is how marital assets are divided out. just spreading your legs once every four months for 30 years, should not entitle anyone to 50%. especially if you were always taking a nap, and almost never did the laundry.
it would be akin to jumping a ship with a minor leak into a liferaft with a hole in it.
a great description of divorce 99.99% of the time.
Also, while men and women have these capacities, luckily very few ever face the situation they are actually needed. This can make it easy to say, “I never would x, y, z…” or to make such situations difficult to imagine.
truth.
mgtowhorseman
2d ago
Ok first off. Her first thought is divorce? W!T!F!
i’m just now able to sit down and read thru all the comments, so this has probably already been discussed …
but what’s so tragic about this is that there’s a culture out there that supports this. it’s not only one of her first thoughts, but it’s culturally acceptable that it is
😦 .
not too long ago changes were being made in my husband’s company, again, and he asked me, “What if I loose my job?” and i said, “We’ll figure it out. I’m not going anywhere.”
And you are correct, it is easier to pass judgement when one isn’t in a situation themselves. However, I’ve stayed with boyfriends and friends who have lost their jobs, allowed them to live with me, lent them money, helped care for their elderly relatives when they could not, driven them to doctor appointments and interviews, and other tasks related to showing I care about them. If I can do this as someone who never had any previous financial gain or commitment from my partners, it is scary indeed that a woman who did receive those bonds and benefits would think of jumping ship.
Dawn – i’d say you are rare, a beautiful kind of rare. i’ve been in a place of loosing everything, and it’s shocking how few people care enough to be there and how many have all sorts of judgements and opinions about you in that situation and how few are willing to look at the bigger picture. if i didn’t pull my girls and i out of church, and separate God from church and church people, we would certainly hate God by now. what people have done to us in the Name of God is … deplorable. shocking. even now looking back, i am still stunned at what people have done to us in the Name of God. and it has often been those, like you, who have been more willing to care than those who claim to love Jesus.
What’s up with their FATHERS? Men aren’t innocent when it comes to these women’s ignorance!
i’ve always wondered that, too, Alan Kardec, but i don’t know why b/c my father is a manipulative, self-absorbed, all-about-him-all-the-time, man … not to mention the things he did to me when i was a very little girl and unable to protect or defend myself.
i’ve hoped he would change over the years and care just a little bit more about me than himself, but he hasn’t. idk why i keep hoping for that.
here’s a recent example … my Aspie-Girl developed an unknown anaphylactic allergy in march of this year. since then she’s had five reactions – 3 epi injections and two ER visits. one of those reactions was at my sister’s house where she had the family in for her son’s graduation. she doesn’t live far, so my aspie-girl and i went over for a visit. sitting in the open-concept living room were my mother, my dad’s witch, oops, wife, and my dad, and myself … when my daughter at a cookie that my sister had homemade, so we thought it should be okay. it wasn’t. she immediately called to me – open concept room, so one big room of family room, kitchen, and dining room/table. i got up, got out the epi-injector, waited a couple minutes at most to make sure it was a reaction, and injected her. we got up to take her to the ER as her vitals need to be evaluated afterwards. during this whole time – and probably five minutes total? and EVERYone KNEW what was happening – we were no more than five or ten feet from everyone … my mom and the witch continued their conversation … my dad actually stood up, but do you know what he said? he said, “Ame, you know, I have to carry an epi-pen now, too.” WTF???!!! his GRANDDAUGHTER is having an anaphylactic reaction … her AIRWAYS are CLOSING … and all he can think about is his own sorry a$$???!!!
and do you think even ONE of them called to check on her? or wanted to follow us to the ER? nope. not one. well … not the the afternoon of the next day.
where are the fathers? idk … but mine never was.
oh, in the same breath, though, they would all be glad to talk about how wonderful God is.
and God IS wonderful, and i DO believe in God … but only b/c i was able to separate Him from people like my parents, like my ex-in-laws, people who attend church regularly, people who are pastors (yes, there are 3 in my family), but who haven’t been there at all for us during the good or the bad times.
Women are right when they notice that in a single earner family, with modern appliances, housewifery is unimpressive. They are wrong when they think they are above being required to make a significant contribution that a man notices and appreciates.
i will probably be going back into the workforce sometime in the next year, and as i’ve contemplated that, i’m realizing how much i actually do and am responsible for in the home. many days it feels like i don’t do much, but when i think of it in terms of not being here to do it, i realize how much it actually is.
i think many things contribute to women feeling like doing things in and around the home/homestead are not valuable. one of the things in current culture is social media b/c it gives us an instant way to compare our lives with what others present that represents their lives but is definitely not a complete reflection of their lives. i do love fb b/c it keeps me connected with many people i care about, but i have to be careful with how i perceive what many present about their lives.
‘ just spreading your legs once every four months for 30 years, should not entitle anyone to 50%. especially if you were always taking a nap, and almost never did the laundry.’
I would classify that as more in the ‘fault’ category.
What I mean by no-fault is you want to leave the marriage because you’re bored or not haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapy.
It is frustrating to hear so often in the manosphere (the few months I’ve been reading it at least) that women supposedly bring nothing to the table other than our vaginas.
Dawn, the problem is that many women have, themselves, devalued themselves to this place.
so what we see out here are men raging against that b/c they’ve been wounded by it, blindsighted by it.
but what i’ve discovered by hanging around for awhile and listening … is that this is not what men want. they want the woman who is going to stand by them, stick it out with them, warm their beds well at night and never waver in their commitment to him during the day. if they can find this kind of woman … and now that they’ve experienced the ‘other’ kind of woman, the unfaithful kind who has found another man to light her tingles thereby devaluing herself to simply a vagina … if they can find a woman of value, they will give their lives for her.
but they are, for good reason, very weary and cautious … and it would often be better for their sanity to believe a good woman does not exist than to hope one does and set himself up to be so deeply wounded again.
I should have said earlier, the hubby was downsized w a severance from a well known company last year after declining a job in the same company if he would relocate. He searched for months to find the job just lost. So perhaps her knowing that last hardship (they both thought finding a replacement job would be easier, and then what he found was w a much lesser known firm) makes this one seem more threatening?
from this i see . . .
he didn’t want to relocate – she probably didn’t, either. both thought he was so valuable he could get anything anywhere.
he couldn’t.
therefore she now sees him as less valuable and has lost respect for him.
and it’s the loss of respect that she will struggle with … and that caused her to think ‘divorce.’
he probably knows this and is now fearful she will leave him and is acting from a position of fear rather than strength. when a man acts from a position of fear (in my female observation, so i could be wrong) he begins to ‘chase’ her rather than stand in the strength of who he is as a man. as soon as a man starts to chase his wife, she almost always looses respect for him.
– – –
a better way would have been that she should have seen it as a risk they chose to take that might or might not work out, and regardless of whether it did or not, they were a team and are in this life together. period.
I will never go back to my old way of life,
and you shouldn’t, Dawn. what they did and who they are is despicable at best. i’m truly sorry you had to experience that. i was pondering this among some other things, and i wonder that spiritual abuse isn’t the absolute worse kind of abuse one can perpetrate on another.
“he probably knows this and is now fearful she will leave him and is acting from a position of fear rather than strength” In addition: undercutting her husband–and even if she doesn’t say anything out loud, her attitude probably comes through quite clearly–will likely reduce his self-confidence, and that’s exactly what someone doesn’t need when job-hunting.
Good job you are a good friend. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God.
WARNING – BLUE PILL TMI FOLLOWS:
Today was our last court date. All the paperwork was signed, testimony given, approved by the Magistrate, and 30 days from today, 30 years is all gone.
Despite all of the lies she has told about me, and all of the things that she has made up, what hurts the most is seeing just how much she has let herself go.
She was already around 300#s when she filed for divorce, and today it looked like she had gained another 25-50#s over the past year.
She hasn’t just destroyed the family, and things for everyone financially. She is setting herself up for having even more medical issues because of her weight and eating habits.
Seeing that happen to someone you’ve loved for over 30 years, is absolutely heartbreaking!
And there’s nothing anyone can do to help her…
@ Dawn
I wish you the best in your life. I am amazed at what appears to be a phoenix of a person and the happiness that you seem to have found. With that sort of history, you are poster child for doing very bad things, and then the investigation into your past reveals the “ah ha” realization of the crappy early life that you had. No one could have blamed you for giving up. I don’t know you, but what I know, I am proud of you.
I am not trying to change your mind about anything as I am about as live and let live as people come. But I think that it would be wrong to not say something about RP. You said that he has investigated RP for quite a long time, yet the aspects that you point out are not RP knowledge based:
“…automatic distrust, paranoia, and misogyny over every single interaction he had with women.”
RP provides confidence, not the above.
I know many men who see things this way, so he is not alone in this view of RP. And I am sure that if one reads enough of the postings on Reditt, it is easy to accept that view. But, hating women and mistrusting women is not RP. I think what you are seeing in that thought soup is man’s anger stage, that sometimes NEVER ENDS. It is a cancer.
I have experienced this anger myself, and it is something that can consume your soul, just as effectively as any drug. Those individuals just cannot come to realize that being hurt, and then forever mad at the world, helps no one, especially themselves. So they build a fort of like minded militants instead of working toward making themselves better and returning POSITIVE purpose into their lives. Being surrounded with hate feeds hate’s fire.
So, as I continue to learn about life, I try to assess what I am reading and determine if there is positive value in it. There’s no value in paranoia and hate (skepticism around humanity can be very good).
I want to tell you that real RP is built on understanding, not hate or mistrust. It is about understanding how the sexes are different and how to use that information to POSSIBLY build lasting and loving relationships. Once I know more about what makes YOU tick, the better I can manage MYSELF to keep our relationship positive. Some of the TRUTHS about me are ugly in the romantic way. Some of the TRUTHS about you (the woman) are ugly in the romantic way. THEY ARE JUST WHAT THEY ARE. It is nobody’s fault for the way that we are made. If I am smart, I will accept the ways of your womanhood and manage myself in a way that tends to suppress your negatives and promote your positives.
In that sense, I cannot MAKE you feel anything (love) for me, but I can shape myself to give myself the best chance of keeping us moving forward in life. In that way, I am trying to predict you, and that is interesting and challenging. It does not mean that I am a doormat. It does not mean that we do not have accountability. In the end, RP understanding is a means for our sum to be a positive thing for both of us.
This is the exact opposite of believing in fairy tale endings, which is what BP attempts to sell you.
As I was married, I believed that fairy tale. I was told that relationships were a lot of work, but the key factor is that we do the wrong kind of work. The fairy tale dream has us doing the work that actually produces the demise. RP teaches us to work on ourselves!
Good bye Dawn. I hope that you live the remainder of your life with both love and happiness. “…all your money, won’t another minute buy.”
Still alive if anyone cares.
Been in a shitty mood for several weeks now. Not sure why. Maybe got skin cancer … that turn you into a non-stop shitty mood ? Bout the only time I’m happy is when I’m with the GF. Anyway, stopped by to catch up. Read this post and most of the comments. Was FML’s comment that prompted me to respond. Yes, I’ve probably been mean to him in the past … like lots of folks. And its probably at a bad time too. Sorry, dude but here goes.
“Today was our last court date. All the paperwork was signed, testimony given, approved by the Magistrate, and 30 days from today, 30 years is all gone.
Despite all of the lies she has told about me, and all of the things that she has made up, what hurts the most is seeing just how much she has let herself go.
She was already around 300#s when she filed for divorce, and today it looked like she had gained another 25-50#s over the past year.
She hasn’t just destroyed the family, and things for everyone financially. She is setting herself up for having even more medical issues because of her weight and eating habits.
Seeing that happen to someone you’ve loved for over 30 years, is absolutely heartbreaking!
And there’s nothing anyone can do to help her…”
So … FML … I’m sure you think you’re special, like most people do. But here is a dose of reality. YOU AREN”T. There are millions of men, every year, who get just as fucked in the divorce court as you did … and more. And your lying cunt of an Ex … she doesn’t give a shit about you anymore. So treat her the same. Quit caring … move on.
So let me tell you about my situation. My now-ex … did exactly the opposite. It was her 2nd marriage to me. In her first … when it went bad … she stopped eating and ended up skin and bones. She told me this 5 yrs before we even thought of divorce. So a couple of months after I filed for divorce … we got ordered to “MEDIATION”. And low and behold in the 2 months since I filed … I don’t think she’d eaten. My Ex wasn’t unattractive … relatively tall, blonde, average build and weight … and now she’d lost 30 lbs in a couple of months. So … not good !!! Especially given her history !!!
So I addressed her MAN-HATING CUNT OF A LAWYER and said in a respectful manner: I think you need to get her into counselling, she needs some help. She has an eating disorder that isn’t healthy. Please get her some help. As her lawyer, can you see that she gets it ?
AND I WAS ACCUSED OF BEING A MONSTER !!!!!!!!!!!
I am not exaggerating when I say that cunt literally attacked me and accused me of being a rapist !!! GOD, THAT FUCKING CUNT OF A LAWYER WAS EVIL !!!! Jesus, just nightmares !!!
And what’s even worse … is the man-hating cunt of a judge. Who … literally and I am not exaggerating … had men killed who refused to abide by her rules in the courthouse. That is not an exaggeration. THE LYING CUNT OF A JUDGE WOULD HAVE MEN KILLED IN HER COURT IF THEY WOULDN”T COWER TO HER WILL.
I guess that is the best thing that came out of my situation … I got that cunt removed from office for FUCKING OVER ME. Or maybe that it was she was ordering security to murder men getting fucked in her courtroom and it took someone like me to bring it to the press (who refused to publish it). And make no mistake, she ruined my life. But at least I got her reassigned out of the divorce court. Which is the only reason she became a judge in the first place: TO FUCK OVER MEN. And I took that away from her. Hope I ruined her life … a life she dedicated to FUCKING OVER MEN. Hope she’s happy ruling on civil court cases for the last 9 years … somebody sued somebody cause their dog pooped on their lawn. But not really. Really hope that lying cunt of a judge rots in hell. That’s what I really want. A man-hating cunt in charge of the divorce court forcing lawyers to fuck over men and it they or the men being fucked don’t like it … courthouse security will take turns putting a bullet into your head AND THEN WAIT TILL YOU BLEED OUT TILL THEY CALL FOR AN AMBULANCE. And the WHITEWASH COMMISSION will make sure the tapes disappear. And the media prints lies about what really happened. So the public never knows. Yes, its still too fucking real …
Guess this is the message to FML, you think you got it bad ? Some people got it worse. Way worse. People gave me this advice after all the shit that went down: Get over it, forgive, forget, move on. Pretty good advice, too. But hard to do in practice. Wish I was better at it. But that would be my recommendation. Forgive. Forget. Move on. You can’t change the past. Forget about her. If she destroys her life from this moment forward, there is nothing you can do about it. And its not your fault. Its HER FAULT. So let it go.
Hope that made sense. And FML, hope that helped, at least a little bit. Not trying to be mean, just real.
Peace.
i only got halfway thru the comments … life gets in the way and all that 🙂
FML – very sorry 😦 … unfortunately, Mega’s right. forgive, forget, move on. sucks, though. i’m not sure any of us are fully able to forget, but, with tiny baby steps, we’re somehow able to move on. prove to her that she lost the best thing that ever happened to her 🙂
Mega – sorry about the skin cancer. hope they can get it all. my brother had a chunk of melanoma removed from his shoulder a few years back. he’s doing well now, according to him 🙂 … sorry it’s been a rough few weeks but glad things are going well with the GF 🙂
Dawn – may you always find peace and truth. i’m so very sorry for what your family has done to you. as you logically know … it was about them, not you (and certainly not of God). you’re a beautiful person with a beautiful heart 🙂 .
David Foster
6h ago
“he probably knows this and is now fearful she will leave him and is acting from a position of fear rather than strength” In addition: undercutting her husband–and even if she doesn’t say anything out loud, her attitude probably comes through quite clearly–will likely reduce his self-confidence, and that’s exactly what someone doesn’t need when job-hunting.
yes. he needs her to be strong right now more than ever … he needs her to prove she’s on his team and that they’re solidly united. may Bloom’s pep-talk and advice cut thru her stupidity and may she rise above herself and become who she should be and needs to be for her man.
First off, you seem to have completely missed my point. I never said or thought that i am special. What i was doing was describing how this woman not just destroyed the family unit, but is actually destroying herself as well. And that’s sad to see.
Second, i never said i have it bad. In fact things are actually a lot better for me. I no longer have to worry about dealing with her nonsense. Although i am sad that things fell apart, life is incredibly more peaceful and void of stress.
Third, i never said i got fucked in court. I think that things worked out relatively fairly, given how biased things are against men. I don’t think that the way the courts allocate money is necessarily right, if one party contributed almost nothing to the marriage. But that doesn’t mean that i think i got fucked.
Fourth, and most importantly, YOU NEED HELP. Go seek treatment from a professional. You have serious anger issues, and taking your stuff out on me isn’t going to help.
Hopefully you will make a better choice on picking a mental health practitioner, than you did with the divorce lawyer that you’ve paid “hundreds of thousands” to.
I couldn’t care less about proving anything to her. I’ve already long moved on for me. But i am sad about what she is doing to herself, and to the kids.
But not my problem anymore.
I understand that sadness 😖
When their dad died my girls said it was like he committed suicide because he knew that not taking care of himself with diabetes was a death sentence. Sure enough, when the autopsy came back that’s what killed him. That just added to the stuff they had to work through after he died.
‘my father is a manipulative, self-absorbed, all-about-him-all-the-time, man’
So I have to ask…why do women choose that type of man to be fathers of their kids? Why do women seem to defend and come to the aid of that type of guy more often? (I have a pretty good idea why, I’m asking questions to provoke thought)
I ask the same thing to guys when they choose terrible women to be the mother of their kids.
probably because they think the sex is awesome, see: https://www.refinery29.uk/sex-mental-health
that, and they probably believe that crazy guys are better able to protect them from others.
‘ He waxes enthusiastic on the allure of self-harm, the benefits of depression, the thrills of anxiety. ‘
The tingles are great until all that self-harm, depression, and anxiety starts getting thrown at him.
I wouldn’t think any sex would be worth becoming one with a bi-polar, near demonic person. What’s up with the lie that a person has to be nuts to get better ‘tingles’?
perception=reality. doesn’t have to be a smart choice and seems to be based on “ideas” or “feelz”, instead of facts.
Seems faulty perception leads to a faulty reality. Not enough people being taught constructive perception in the world it seems.
because everyone is a winner! and when they aren’t, it is always someone else’s fault.
this is what progressivism is doing to our society.
Iha8lookingback: “I want to tell you that real RP is built on understanding, not hate or mistrust. It is about understanding how the sexes are different and how to use that information to POSSIBLY build lasting and loving relationships. Once I know more about what makes YOU tick, the better I can manage MYSELF to keep our relationship positive. Some of the TRUTHS about me are ugly in the romantic way. Some of the TRUTHS about you (the woman) are ugly in the romantic way. THEY ARE JUST WHAT THEY ARE. It is nobody’s fault for the way that we are made. If I am smart, I will accept the ways of your womanhood and manage myself in a way that tends to suppress your negatives and promote your positives.
In that sense, I cannot MAKE you feel anything (love) for me, but I can shape myself to give myself the best chance of keeping us moving forward in life. In that way, I am trying to predict you, and that is interesting and challenging. It does not mean that I am a doormat. It does not mean that we do not have accountability. In the end, RP understanding is a means for our sum to be a positive thing for both of us.
This is the exact opposite of believing in fairy tale endings, which is what BP attempts to sell you.
As I was married, I believed that fairy tale. I was told that relationships were a lot of work, but the key factor is that we do the wrong kind of work. The fairy tale dream has us doing the work that actually produces the demise. RP teaches us to work on ourselves!”
Good job! Wish I’d said that.
“It is highly irrational however… after all, since there was no savings under either of their names, it would be akin to jumping a ship with a minor leak into a liferaft with a hole in it.”
I’d liken it more to jumping into the actual ocean, pushing the kids in too.
Just to add, great job on offering solutions for that family, Bloom.
I hope everything works out for them.
I can imagine the stress they are under….can’t say I’ve been through the same thing, but we did go through a mid-life change when Mike left active duty to go to the Reserves (part time) at the 18 year point. That was scary for me, but it had to be done. He was miserable with his job at the time.
But I was working full time…which didn’t make up the whole income, but it helped.
Wasn’t easy though, kids were younger then.
This couple is older for a late in life change, but on the plus side their sons are older too…and they can help out. They’re not total dependents anymore.
Ame, yeah … they took samples (biopsy’s) about 10 days ago … and one was skin cancer … so gotta go back next week and they will try to make sure they got it all by cutting out a bigger area. And I think there is already another area nearby that’s got the same thing so will have them take 2. Shit happens, its life.
As for FML … I’ve been mean to him before so thought my comments wouldn’t be well received. And they weren’t. Sue me.
Seriously, FML seems like one of these dudes always begging for attention … like he’s got it so bad, life has been so unkind to him, and its so unfair. And he gets offended when someone steals his thunder because 3 billion people on this planet have it worse than him. Or someone is smarter than him. Or knows more than him and tells him so. Frankly, sounds like your typical liberal elitist.
But as I said, I’ve been grumpy for a while now and treating lots of folks like crap, even myself. Just out of sorts. Not sure what’s going on … but it ain’t good.
but on the plus side their sons are older too…and they can help out. They’re not total dependents anymore
Liz – i love this. i don’t think we always raise our children to contribute to the family anymore … that we’re a family and we stick together and help each other out. but i think this is super important.
sorry about the cancer … but they can usually get it all, right? after my brother found out his i went to a dermatologist for a full-body scan (all clear!). but we grew up on the beach, we both have that fair, irish skin, and i blistered more times than i can count 🙂 … so i’m grateful i’m all-clear.
fwiw – i’ve never read FML the way you describe at all.
– – –
But as I said, I’ve been grumpy for a while now and treating lots of folks like crap, even myself. Just out of sorts. Not sure what’s going on … but it ain’t good.
do you think it could be something chemical or biological? idk if i’m even using the right terms, but it might be good to talk to your pcp about it. something as simple as your body being too low on key things, like, idk, potassium, or something like that, can throw your whole system and brain out-of-sorts. now that Liz is back she can speak to this kind of thing with correct medical terminology 🙂 … my fav word ‘thing’ can get a bit confusing when used for too many, well, things 🙂
you really do misread things. kinda makes me wonder if you have any grasp on reality at all.
i don’t think i have it bad at all. in fact things have been continually getting better. but that doesn’t mean that i can’t be sorry about how things between the ex and i turned out, or feel sad about what she is doing to herself. seeing her setting herself up for failure, isn’t good to see.
saying that i am a “typical liberal elitist”, is just too f’n funny to read. i am far from a liberal, and much more conservative than you know. so, null points for you.
blaming your crankiness towards others on having skin cancer, is just outright lame. I’ve BTDT, and was never mean to others because of it. being mean to others because of things that were not their fault, is childish.
that nonsense about a judge having men executed in court, is just too far fetched to believe. maybe someone was killed in a courtroom, but it probably was because of some violent action on their part, and not because they didn’t like the judges ruling.
and being the attention whore you are, you had to go on a rant about how you got her removed from hearing divorce cases.
go seek professional help. you really need it.
i know what you are saying. but from another point of view, why would you want to remain married to someone who feels that way? if they aren’t in to you, why bother? you are better off without them.
ymmv
From the Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/the-emotional-landmine-of-asking-about-future-grandkids/567305/
“I’d kept to a pretty brisk schedule when I became a mother; I had my both of my girls before I turned 30. But now those girls, like so many other women their age, seemed to me to be acting as if they had all the time in the world to decide about kids. I didn’t think they had all the time in the world—and, more to the point, I knew that I didn’t. As my joints started creaking and my knees stiffened up, I started to worry that by the time grandbabies came along, I’d be too old to enjoy them.”
Grandbabies?? Good luck.
Course seeing both my kids at 3 and 5 playing with their great grandmother in a four generation house was a ratity no one else but me can relate to.
Course seeing both my kids at 3 and 5 playing with their great grandmother in a four generation house was a ratity no one else but me can relate to.
Horseman – the rarity in that, for me, would be that my daughters had grandparents and great grandparents who *wanted* to play with them or even get to know them and be a part of their lives, much less live in the same house.
their paternal grandparents had friends whose daughter got pregnant, got married, and their friends helped the kids out for many years, letting them live with them, etc. and their grandfather said, my ex fil, pointedly said that would not happen with him. he would not do that. we were not to expect any kind of help from them. and my parents are a joke.
i would LOVE to give that kind of family and lineage to my daughters. i can’t from our past, but i do begin with me 🙂 … if they ever get married, have kids, i’ve been told they would prefer if we don’t share a house, so living next door is just fine with me 🙂 🙂 🙂
@ Liz I am not sure the sons have been raised with that mindset but I hope so. I don’t know the kids well enough to say.
‘ why would you want to remain married to someone who feels that way? if they aren’t in to you, why bother?’
Well my goal is to figure that out before marriage. Thankfully they’ve always told me that before it ever got that far.
It used to be the norm.
Nana had Mrs. Mom at 27. Mrs Mom had Mrs at 23. Mrs had manchild at 29, lil miss at 31. Still remember summer days lil miss at 3 sitting on Nanas 85 year old lap on the back deck watching manchild while Mrs and Mrs Mom made supper. Mrs Dad in the driveway mocking his mechanically inept son in law over beers.
The kids “helping” us check Nanas 2nd floor apartment for things she forget to unplug and getting her settled in for the night. Then down to our basement apartment for storytime. We came back upstairs once the kids were asleep to play cards.
None of it was out of order. Each generation found a spouse after high school, courted appropriately, got married, honeymooned, had kids. The ages just lined up properly.
Then it repeated. Five years after we moved out of metro, Mrs brother moved out here. A few years later as soon as they retired Mrs parents. Now we are all within 15 minutes of us again. Reminds me, need to cut their grass tomorrow night.
Nana lived twenty years in her apartment, likely between the family care and a reason to live. Mrs parents are pushing 80 but live in their bungalow freely with our minor assistance and will until they need real care.
Its what family does. Its what family has always done.
Too bad society has lost that along the way.
that’s all so beautiful Horseman. i pray my daughters, if they marry someday, will marry into a family like this. beautiful. priceless.
On my side my grandmother had three sisters. All lived in same apartment building, not a seniors building. All retired when I knew them. Even had cottages across the bay from each other. Cribbage every night after supper 365. Gramma and Gladys the widows vs Ethel and Jim the surviving couple. Same seats, same pegs, same tea cups.
The number of summer nights I fell asleep on the couch listening to the rythem of “fifteen two, fifteen four and a double run is eight.”
It was only my “executive” parents (bridge club) who felt appearances were more important than family who broke the cycle. Why after my marriage to a unapproved girl that I left and they never knew manchild or lil miss.
It was how all families were.
Shame.
Ames
It says something sad about modern life that this is something special rather than just is.
Horseman – i’m trying to find a comment you made – don’t remember if it’s here at Bloom’s or at Spawny’s … something about would you consider marrying your wife again … and you said yes to then but no to 50. i can’t remember exactly all … but i remember ‘no to 50’.
can you please find it for me? 🙂
At spawnys under Reaping the wages of neglect.
“Mrs is very attractive to me at mid 50s. She is my type. Hehe.
But to be brutal.
If I was single and didn’t know her.
Me: successful, financialy stable, 6-1, 185, ok shape, all my teeth and hair.
House, vacation home, car all paid for, friends, hobbies. Kids raised and gone.
Pick her out of a crowd? In a heartbeat.
Date her over a 25 year old? Likely.
Find her interesting enough to form a relationship with? Definitely.
Be monogamous to her? Of course
Commit to provide for her, share my life’s work, risk my secured retirement funds?
For what possible reason? I just met her! I don’t owe her squat!
What possible reason once the bullshit is not worth the sex, companionship?
She is fantastic but she can also be an intractible cast iron bitch.
Just like every girl on the planet.
Even after say 3 years is she worth the last 30 years of my life?
Not A Chance!!
So why am I here now and for the next 30+ years?
Because at 24 she took a chance on a new grad working as a clerk, slightly goofy looking.
Because she said I will stand by you and I want to have your babies.
Because of 36 hours of labour and an emergency C.
Because we screamed, yelled, ignored each other.
Because thru losing a house, almost dying at 34, living with her parents she was there
Because we went thru the Year From Hell and came out together.
Because do the math, at 54 I would have to be 92 to know anyone as long as I’ve known her.
Because She Earned It.
What does a 40 or 50 year old stranger bring to the table compared to that?”
Keep in mind the gist is I would have her as a STR or even LTR but at my age of 54 I am past the time of family, kids etc. I have my own. Even if I was a long term bachelor I would have whatever my version of family is. And she is past the age of giving me more fasmily beyond us as a couple.
Therefore the need to commit, permanently, for the rest of my life…for what reason?
The companionship any woman brings at that age is nice, pleasant even.
But not vital to a man’s existence.
Even if they stay together he is sharing, even if its 1\4, of his resources that he hasd saved to fulfil his retirement. Again for what purpose?
A stranger has not earned any of this. She is a stranger. Can she earn a chunk of my life savings, my golden years in the mere decade before I turn 65? Maybe, maybe not.
Mrs EARNED the next 30 years together, gods willing more, by the LAST 30 years.
Harsh but honest.
(And just what 40+ frivorcees want to hear!)
But all is not lost.
Exception story.
My great aunt Lillian (the other of grammas three sisters) was the original career woman. Worked in the office of the CBC from 1940s until she retired at 65. Never married. Never knew her as other than content spinster in her wee house in Toronto.
Not a feminist just a content workin gal.
Then on a seniors cruise at 70+ she met Orville.
He was a 75+ widower. Ex teacher. Grown son. Well off enough.
She was a first time bride at 75+.
He moved into her house. Good genes on both.
Lived in that house, unassisted except family, both lucid until both were 95+.
20+ years together.
He passed days before his 100th.
She passed within a month.
She couldn’t be without him.
I can’t convey the feeling that Mrs “just is.”
Not faith, not religion. Not blue pill red pill.
Just after everything we have gone thru, she is there. Period.
Like you know there is air for your next breath.
Might be mountain air or stinky city air, but it is there.
It just is.
Snow is cold, water is wet, Mrs is there.
And I am too.
It just is.
And if it isn’t by some disaster
then there is NO replacement.
Like never seeing snow again.
Never drinking water again.
oh.my.gawash! what an incredibly beautiful story, Horseman!
thinking of this in light of the comment i just made on Simple Beginnings …
i think there’s another thing at play that is difficult to describe to young people … and it’s more than simply a used up woman with a high N count. i think that deep relationships take something from us. and i know i’m not sure i can articulate this well, but i’ll give it a try.
it could be just a woman thing because the woman adapts to the man. as we adapt to a man, we blend who we are with him. when we get to the next man, we blend who we are with him, and on down the line. but there’s a part of us left with each man.
that your great aunt doesn’t seem to have all those prior relationships, she had more (or all) of who she was available to bond and blend with Orville … so Orville didn’t get just a part of her … or left-overs … he got all of her. (that is just the sweetest story!!! 🙂 )
anyway … i would not have understood this had i not experienced it. and perhaps i’m just one of those women who give everything i have to what i do – including and especially to my marriage. i gave everything i had to my first marriage. i thought i had more to give my second than i have, but i’ve discovered over time that i didn’t … because it’s already gone. but with what i do have – with what’s left after my first marriage and with what’s left after my two daughters – i give all of that to my man i’m married to now. if he passes onto the next life before i do, i cannot imagine thinking of marriage again b/c i just won’t have a lot of me left to give. does that make any sense?
Hos aint loyal. First spot of trouble and her instinct is to bail? After 3 kids and decades of marriage? She is an awful person. Period.