My oldest daughter started a new school recently (she has been doing online homeschool for two years at her request but I worried she might be too isolated so she’s now attending a charter homeschool hybrid program with in person classes twice a week) and on the first day parents were encouraged to come along so I got to go back to school, too! High school even! (Unlike regular school parents are encouraged to visit anytime and are even able to sit in on classes to learn the topic themselves if they like!)
I share the background so the rest of this will make sense.
In one of her classes the teacher kicked things off by having everyone write down three things about themselves (parents too!), put them in a basket, draw another out, and go around introducing yourself and then asking questions to try and find the person whose paper you had. (Cool idea, I thought! I am very impressed with all of her teachers and the school so far!)
Anyway, this class was an elective so it contained students from freshmen to seniors. When the teacher got to one student, who sat with his giggly girlfriend, she mentioned he wasn’t really a student anymore as he had graduated the year before. His girlfriend had drawn his paper and read off the three things: 1. He liked sports. 2. His favorite thing to do is sleep. 3. People always stare at him. The girlfriend giggled.
I should add he looks almost exactly like Rock Hudson. I wondered if he knew how classically handsome he was, or if he honestly didn’t know why people stared. His girlfriend is not nearly as striking but she clearly adores him.
In the manosphere he likely would be what’s known as a natural. Attracting women’s attention will likely never be something he has to learn how to do. However,without knowledge he still might struggle with women if he doesn’t just figure things out or have someone teach him.
I wondered what will become of this young couple or how long they have been together. Maybe in time I will find out.
Anyway, what do you think? Please share your thoughts in the comments!
Notes From a Red Pill Girl 
If he isn’t a parent or a student, why is he there?
I wondered the same thing too, Farm Boy. Hopefully he was just there to support his girlfriend on her first day back to school but won’t be a regular.
We spotted the two later in the day in a local store. I noticed he had changed his clothing, which was somewhat odd. My daughter noticed her more than him, which I found interesting. Perhaps she’s studying this girl? Hopefully she won’t be too influenced. So far she’s shown no interest in dating or buys and I hope that continues but I also know it’s going to happen at some point. I plan to have a fairly strict approach when it does. I did find myself looking around and wondering if one of those young guys will someday be my daughter’s husband? I hope to guide her well thru these coming phases! But hopefully not anytime too soon!
(Hyperventilating into a paper bag!!!!!!) lol kidding. I got this. I can do this….
The real question is whether or not the girls knows how lucky she is.
Women tend to see themselves as more attractive than they actually are.
There is probably a greater chance she will dump him rather than giving up the opportunity to sleep with other men.
If she doesn’t then she will know all too well the extents other women (and men) will go to sleep with her partner.
The problem here isn’t the boy. The problem is her and her competition.
‘However,without knowledge he still might struggle with women if he doesn’t just figure things out or have someone teach him.’
I tend to think it’s women who need the ‘whys’ as to the reason why things aren’t working well for them. Of course feelz will get in the way.
He probably won’t struggle with women with the looks…but women will certainly dump him because they’ll have a faulty script.
Of course it is also just as possible he already knows how to ‘game’ a woman’s rebellious tendencies to his benefit. Especially if he was raised by a single mother with a feminist life script.
She will cheat on him with some tattoo’d felon, have his crotch fruit, and tell Rock Hudson that it is his child. She will stay married to him for 25 years, until she divorces him, and uses her alimony payment to fund her new boyfriends crack habit.
RPG said: My daughter noticed her more than him, which I found interesting. Perhaps she’s studying this girl?
Took her a split second to notice that he is a hunk. Takes longer to figure out what it is about her that he finds interesting?
truly … seasons of parenthood where prayer becomes our sustenance.
well … i know who to go to when i need encouraging thoughts in my day 😉
it is hard to remember, for me at least, that God’s already there and willing to guide me through. it’s scary … keep the paper bag close 😉 … but the only way out is through, so through you will go 🙂
feel good story:
No encouraging, but more likely accurate than not.
Not my fault you don’t want to admit it.
You just like the fact that what i said is more likely to happen, than not.
Is your girl in ninth grade Bloom?
didn’t say i didn’t want to admit it or that it was unlikely … just indicated it was depressing.
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/09/20/the-hot-years-free-shit/
I’m only curious about her grade/age for context, because 14 is a lot different from 16+.
Not in an UMC school, Liz. My son#1 was first propositioned for a blowjob at 14. He was so frightened he came home and cried. (Men physically mature very late in my family.) The girls were humping strangers at 14.
Bloom, obviously your daughter is fascinated by the girl because she wants to *be* the girl, with the older more attractive, sexually mature boyfriend. Good luck. She wants a man in her life, and you’re divorced. She will not outgrow this, incidentally.
Doesn’t even need to be UMC schools…it was like that at my cornfield high school as well.
Well some of the ladies waited until they were 15 before they got pregnant.
BV is right…there’s no man in her life, she is going to be searching for one soon. That’s just how it is for daughters with no father in the house.
grrr.
Ame
Sadly, growling isn’t going to change anything, it is what it is. That’s been my experience in our extended families, and it never works well. Ask your man.
For those that imagine that this is manosphere nonsense, my wife called the behavior of not only ugly divorced girls but boys “man hungry” far more than a decade ago. It was an obvious desperate need to everybody except social workers ;-D
She tried to keep women in our families from divorcing, sometimes asking me to talk to their husbands. But when she passed there was maybe a dozen separations or divorces within a year. You know there was a time when older, wiser family women curbed the excesses of younger women…there just might have been for a reason ;-D
That is likely true re the girl will not realize how lucky she is, or will think she can do better for whatever reason (smarter, richer, better educated, more successful, etc) Hypergamy. Or she may realize (for now anyway) as she seemed to be actively mate guarding him, was working hard to keep his attention.
Luckily my daughter has a strong relationship w her dad and sees him frequently. I am hoping she does not feel that gap as much as a gal w an absent father. And I have even seen girls w a dad at home who is distant (maybe an alcoholic or some dysfunction) who will then seek male attention so it can happen intact families too. So far she does not seem to seek male attention or be boy crazy, vs. some of the others her age who are already well on their way w those games. I hope this holds but of course time will tell. She’s got a good head on her, I don’t foresee her doing the typical teen thing. Of course at some point I do think she will meet someone, and like any mom I hope she finds a good match and for life! 🙂
I would agree she was more interested in the girl bc she was studying her. I found myself even wondering how the two came to be as her smv is several points lower. From what I could see the girl was likely using her sexuality as she was wearing tight jeans. A low cut tank top, etc. she somewhat struck me as the classic, “gal who cannot be wo her man and builds her world around him.” I wondered if she will “accidentally” get pregnant to seal the deal. Of course all this is speculation.
@ Liz yes, freshman.
Liz yes, freshman.
I wasn’t really into boys when I was a freshman…started to take an interest around 16.
At 14 the girl would interest me more…but not due to some fascination with the guy, more like the reason girls play with barbies (and ignore Ken).
I’m sure it’s all prep for future hypergamy (sexual competition) just as boy rough-housing is prep for same.
But what BV said about the UMC crowd is really disturbing.
I guess you never know?
@Gerard:
Women tend to see themselves as more attractive than they actually are.
Disagree. That’s backwards. Women typically underestimate their own attractiveness to men; in large part because they don’t understand and have literally no concept of male thirst. An enormous component of women’s attractiveness to men is that men’s attraction vectors and filters are much, much wider than women’s are. We’ll fuck anything that moves (within reason); while women are more selective.
Men are the ones who overestimate their own attractiveness.
I was boy crazy from the age of 12. They were so facinatingly different from me and I wanted to learn all about them. I adored my father and he was in the house. Yet in my adolescent mind, I saw my dad as my dad and not an actual male lol. Perhaps if I had brothers, I wouldn’t be so fascinated with boys.
@ Liz I know friends who have girls that were boy crazy by 6th grade, sexually active by 1:. Scary. One her parents are married but they have troubles so perhaps that factored in? Another is Vixens oldest. 6 months younger than mine. Has been sexually active for some time, loves the drama and aggressively plays the game. Probably learned from mom?
My daughter looks older than she is, same as I did. In my case the boys were interested in me (or let’s face it my new boobs!) much earlier than I was interested in them. I think bc of that I was one of the last in my peer group to pair up, as I did not like all that attention and it made me wary. If I had a different personality, where I exploited that, it could have been very bad, so I am glad so far my daughter seems similar. My youngest is already an active flirt, she’s a cutie and she knows it. I will likely have a whole different situation w her!
And yes I think she was watching that girl bc she likely is trying to figure this all out. There will be lots of teachable moments!
@ame I am curious if your girls date or how that’s gone? They are older than mine, yes?
By 13 I mean
Pics of the aforementioned bloom boobs, or they don’t exist! lol 😜
About “boy crazy”
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/09/18/mad-about-boys/
‘Luckily my daughter has a strong relationship w her dad and sees him frequently.’
That’s good…didn’t know what their relationship was like.
‘Perhaps if I had brothers, I wouldn’t be so fascinated with boys.’
I probably had the opposite experience growing up…I had just my mom who I didn’t really see as a ‘female’ , my dad and a brother. Perhaps if I had a sister I wouldn’t have been so behind the curve about how women operate.
Being boy crazy does not equate to turning into a slut. I was actually quite a shy teenager. I never dated nor even kissed a boy in high school. Yet I had many boy crushes – be they the captain of the football team, the super geek, or famous teenage actors.
That boy crazy state is simply hormones …
Some girls get hit with a heavy dose of it while some have a milder steadier fill. I think for me it was an overnight phenomena. I hated boys one minute and the next I was gushing at any that passed by.
It didn’t mean I went into heat and humped each of them. How you choose to live your life is on you.. Not your hormones.
rpg
Glad to hear that you daughter has a good relationship with her father and sees him often. That seldom happens if the divorce is ugly.
There are several comments from various women in this thread that demonstrate a point I’ve made to Stephanie from time to time. I understand her concept that boys and girls should pair up and make babies. What I have tried to say to her, and what is being demonstrated in this thread, is that one doesn’t just decide to do that. Different personalities, with different hormone allotments, are going to come to that game at their own speed – based on the development of their personality and hormones – not all at the same, predetermined time.
In encouraging the young ones to believe in and persue family formation, we have to keep that variability in mind. Some, like Stephanie, are ready to persue that step while quite young. Others won’t be ready for some time. Others may never get there, through no fault of their own.
We can encourage everybody to be the same. But biology will make that a futile effort.
Not to be mean, but I am chuckling at the dilema that Bloom says she is facing – between the personality of the oldest and the different personality of the youngest. All I can say is that the next five years or so will keep you on your toes, and that will keep you young.
“Perhaps if I had a sister I wouldn’t have been so behind the curve about how women operate.” Indeed, I do think that the smaller family sizes of recent decades play about in intergender cluelessness….an opposite-sex sibling will also have *friends* of that sex, who will also give one an insight into how that sex operates.
“In encouraging the young ones to believe in and persue family formation, we have to keep that variability in mind”…very true, but we also need to ensure that they are informed of *realities*, like the female fertility window.
See sad story here:
http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-biological-clock-is-still-ticking.html
““In encouraging the young ones to believe in and persue family formation, we have to keep that variability in mind”…very true, but we also need to ensure that they are informed of *realities*, like the female fertility window.”
^I think I’m more with the “realities” camp. And coming from a religious background of thinking they really shouldn’t be having sex anyway, instead they should be getting married (even if it is too young to their parents/society, etc.).
We weren’t really “ready” to be married that young, it just happened because we weren’t having sex and so we knew it should come first. That sounds really crude LOL sorry! But really, we married young because we didn’t want to mess up, and we didn’t want to chance a breakup by trying to stay together for years and years trying to stay pure.
‘ But really, we married young because we didn’t want to mess up, and we didn’t want to chance a breakup by trying to stay together for years and years trying to stay pure.’
Well that’s how humans used to work back in the day, especially when things like religion and actually caring about God’s say in the matter were taken more seriously. Staying chaste for your state in life isn’t easy with things like hormones.
Now a lot of people don’t even see marriage as necessary for sex or even know it’s called fornication…so they do it.
i’d be glad to answer that privately if you want to email me at my talkiname gmail address 🙂
I know this is from the other thread but something about it bothers me…
RP said:
“I’d hate to see the light go out of your eyes because you one day conclude that you never got the chance to be all that you could be. I know that sounds corney. But I also know that does happen to folks.”
But… why can’t I just love being a good wife and mother and having fulfillment there? I do “get it” that when they need me less I’ll have more time to find work and hobbies and such, but even when they’re teens I’m sure they’re going to need my mind being “there” for them… not off somewhere else mentally trying to figure out complicated pieces of curing diseases and such. I worked with women like that – they had horrible family lives or sometimes just had no kids – which was the best decision for them since they would have neglected them.
I really want to be “there” for them while they’re growing up. I don’t want a career that is going to drive me crazy making me feel like I’m doing a half-ass job at being their mom AND “doing something good for society.” Not that women can’t find a balance, but the PhD kind and research and such takes too much mental effort away from keeping your kids healthy mentally/spiritually etc.
Honestly, if I just produce 4 good human beings who are good, God-loving people, that will be sole contribution to society, and I’ll be very very happy with that. 🙂
“I worked with women like that – they had horrible family lives or sometimes just had no kids – which was the best decision for them since they would have neglected them.”
This sounds really mean! I actually admired those women a lot! One of them did something truly wonderful in science recently, but her family life (and love life) is a wreck 😦 So many of them are divorced, or just had zero children. When watching them put in 60-80 hours a week, to be that good at their jobs, I just knew I didn’t want something like that.
Again, women can find a balance, but being “just a mom” with a minor “career” on the side shouldn’t make a woman feel like she was missing out on something grand. Maybe she was, but those women pay a price, too.
Just to be clear, I was not advocating sex before marriage in my comment above. I was talking about encouraging the kids to pursue family formation (marriage). Not everybody is ready biologically, psychologically, personality-wise to do that at the same age.
And come on Stephanie – I was complimenting you on the fact that you are indeed loving being a good wife and mother and having fulfillment there. That much is obvious and you are being a good role-model for other young ladies to aspire to. But there will come a day when your children are older and you won’t be able to do then what you are doing now. (This phase of your “mother life” won’t last forever, and I’m suddenly wondering if you realize that.) You said you have thought about pursuing your education later. I was only saying that I was happy to hear that you were open to that. Nothing in anything I’ve ever said has been meant to criticize your choices in life. I said that some folks come to a point where they realize they did not become all they could have been. One road taken means another one not taken, and all that. I said then, and say again here, I hope that you never become one of those folks. Pursue all you can, when you can, and be all you can be. Life comes in stages. This one will pass. When it does, grab on to the next stage with as much gusto as you’ve grabbed on to this one.
And – no lie – as I’m typing this, this song starts playing. If it comes up “Video Not Found” – click in the lower right-hand corner, then click on “YouTube” when that word appears. The video should open in a few seconds.
Family
Ok. So much for comming up to the “Family” video. Looks like you will have to scroll down 6 videos or so and click on the “Family” vido if you want to hear it.
@earl I have always firmly believed my girls need both parents and I work very hard to facilitate a positive, drama-free, and no games situation. It’s not about me, it’s about my girls. I wish more divorced parents saw it this way bc it’s truly so damaging to kids to be pawns, or denied a parent, or put in the middle. I never bad talk, or berate, or anything. I strive to be completely non-reactive, neutral, and only supportive. It’s not always easy but it really is worth it for my kids sake.
@ Richard when I say my youngest is a cutie I am not kidding! In kindergarten boys were already sparring. And my oldest is equally so, but in a more ethereal rather than cutie way. She’s breathtaking. No lie. In preschool every boy also declared they wanted to marry her. But she took no interest in all that. I am glad the older will hopefully be influencing the younger, vs the other way around. And of course I also am careful to be a good influence on both. I really think kids watch what you do more than listen to what you tell them so I am sure my walk matches my talk, so to speak. Both girls are watching and learning from my relationship now, as well. They both like him very much and they see how there he is for both them and myself. So much so my youngest declared to a male colleague who came by not long ago to talk biz that, “my mom has a boyfriend and she’s taken!” Lol. I explained that she had nothing to fear, this was strictly biz, but I thought it was so cute that she was mate guarding me for him — that says a lot. My oldest feels the same and while not overly emotive about it I can tell she’s all in too. He helps w her homework from afar, and both girls get that while it’s long distance he’s always right here for us. So he influences them and what I hope they will seek and look for in the future too, as he’s not a cad whatsoever but rather is a great example of the opposite. Anyway probably saying too much. 🙂 and I am not trying to glorify whatsoever that “it all works out” model bc trust me I have learned and seen how often it doesn’t work out this way.
Anyway yeah a tricky line to walk. I hope I am doing so in a way that sets them up in a far better way than I was advised or shown myself. But then again I had a (early widowed, and I think that’s a big reason why she stressed the “be ready and able to stand on your own” feet thing, except she inadvertently perhaps taught me to fear men. mom buying and spouting the “go grruullll” lifestyle who has pretty much ended up a cat lady minus cats.
Oops! But yes that was me!
Time for bed. Zzzzzz
matchmaking in Germany: https://crunchydungeon.com/2018/09/20/no-120/
you have to read the whole (short) article to get context, but here’s this:
Then she did something really weird: she grabbed a middle aged man (who appeared to be single?) and she told him to ‘wait here’ in German, and then she went and ‘found’ a single lady from the other side and BROUGHT HER INTO THE MEN’S ROOM so that they could meet.
… so I am sure my walk matches my talk …
That is really important, and good for you.
You’ve given so much to respond to in your post above. Perhaps the most important thing to say in response is the phrase “building a life together”. That is what everything boils down to. Problem is, life does not always turn out the way it is supposed to, and that “together” word gets torn out of that phrase. The “together” part disappears because of divorce, being widowed, debilitating illness, etc. Suddenly “building a life together” becomes the more difficult “building a life – without help”.
The delimma is between these two extremes:
– build it together with him; he’ll take the lead and know what to do, so you don’t really need to educate yourself. And then he’s taken out of the equation through death or illness or divorce, and she is left alone, unprepared, and at the mercy of those who would take advantage of her lack of information.
or
– get as much knowledge and skills as you can and build it by yourself. Don’t rely on him, because he is likely to disappear on you, because of death, illness, or divorce. And so she becomes fearful of intimacy and commitment with a man. And builds it alone.
Neither one of those scenarios sells perfumes, or high fashion, or exotic vacations. And so they remain absent from the education of those who learn about life mostly through the media.
But the reality is – both of those scenarios happen with great regularity in real life. Children are best served when they are taught that both of those scenarios are possible in real life, that tomorrow is promised to no one, but work and plan like tomorrow will actually come – just in case it does.
In a word – even in the secular world we must be taught to step out in faith. Yes, he might be taken from you, for whatever reason, but find him who will have you anyway and join with him in building a life together, until you can’t do it together anymore. And when you can’t do it together anymore, there are still options that allow you to keep going.
Bloom, you most of all seem to be teaching that lesson to your daughters. Ame also is teaching that to hers. And I’m sure others of whom I am unaware. You are teaching them that it might not work out the way they plan, but plan and try anyway. That is the real life that kids need to prepare for, particularly girls. You are demonstrating that lesson every day that you get up and keep on keepin on. With your walk. Not just your talk.
Marry young is the procedure most often offered as the solution to what ails women.
Unfortunately, find him who will have you anyway comes before marry young. Somehow, most advice gets stuck on the marry young part, and most everyone acts as though the find him who will have you anyway has nothing to do with anything.
The real issue to be addressed is what options the woman has who cannot find one who will have her anyway. And that issue is not discussed.
I think the reality is that those who find one who will have her anyway usually get married. I don’t think most of the unmarried women pursuing higher education have rejected marriage proposals in order to pursue higher education.
‘Again, women can find a balance, but being “just a mom” with a minor “career” on the side shouldn’t make a woman feel like she was missing out on something grand. ‘
The first problem most women face is how motherhood is looked down upon over a career. A career won’t last forever like a child does.
In fact I don’t know if it is in school or when it happens but most women have their motherhood instinct beaten or forced out of them early…much like boys have their masculinity stripped early. With no real benefits I can see from either.
@ Earl It’s true, I was repeatedly told via all sorts of channels gas a child, teen, and adult that having kids would ruin my life, being a sahm would be a waste of my potential, that kids would hold me back, ruin my body, destroy my life, etc. all the time. Lots of info on birth control, abortion, how to avoid being a mom. There was very little if any positive messaging about being a mom or having kids. It’s a big reason I put off having kids and why I had so few.
Yes kids are a lot of work, and involve self sacrifice, and can at times be really hard. But having kids is easily the best thing I have ever done, being a mom the most satisfying job, and I would consider being a mom my biggest accomplishment. I love it! I am not perfect by any means but I try really hard to be a good mom and I love my kids w all my heart. I wish I had more kids and had started earlier is my only regret about motherhood!
“The first problem most women face is how motherhood is looked down upon over a career. A career won’t last forever like a child does.”
Yes, this. 🙂 I’m friends with a woman who is about 30 years ahead of us… they had 4 kids like we’re planning, and she never really had a “career” in the sense that she did anything great or purposeful. She was just a secretary at a church for many years, and has now become a full-time grandma living the life with her retired husband (accountant – so yes, he definitely had a good career), and visiting all her grandchildren everywhere. They’re in Europe right now and have been for at least a couple of months. She posts pics and videos of her adventures with her grandchildren, and it’s obvious how valuable it is.
I can visibly see how much she’s enjoying this phase in her life, but I really don’t think she would say she missed out on a career or “didn’t become all she could be” just because she never went back to school. That’s ridiculous, especially when you see the new generations she’s left and is now enjoying enthusiastically with her husband 🙂 .
A new post at Spawny’s there is
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/09/22/rules-to-live-by/
Why I am out.
‘Why I am out.’
Nothing like a mother holding her kids hostage from the father so she can get booze money.
Also this is why I never watch any of those morning show cluck fests.
Well, you know why they are single, and very likely to remain that way.
Women “My body, my choice.”
Men “My interest (commitment), my choice.”
Too bad ranting about the first (reproduction and sexual availability) for decades has for many negated the second.
Oh and without the latter you cannot have the former.
One way or another men Always find a way to win in the end.
Toodles.
YOU ARE SOOOOO WRONG, STEPHANIE !!!
What can be more great or purposeful, than raising decent human beings, and then helping to raise your grandchildren the same way?
And what is with the “just a secretary” thing??? You sound so “the view”-like, saying that.
… I really don’t think she would say she missed out on a career or “didn’t become all she could be”
Good for her. You are missing what I’ve said if you think I’m saying that a woman has to have a career of some sort (other than the career of being a mom) in order to think she became all she could be. I will always believe that raising responsible children is the second most important job in the world. First most important job in the world is raising food and delivering it to market. Without food we wouldn’t stay alive long enough to have kids.
And FML – I’m not clear on what you think Stephanie is wrong about. Perhaps you misunderstood what she said?
OK – maybe third most important job in the world.
First would be growing food and delivering it to market. Second would be those who keep others from stealing our food before we can eat it (growing food does us no good if it is stolen before it gets to our mouths). Third would be making and raising responsible children.
But … a young lady has to meet a guy who will have her before she can make and raise responsible children. Young ladies don’t all meet the guy who will have her at the same age. And what of the young ladies that never do meet the guy who will have her? How do they make and raise responsible children? Obviously, they don’t. So what do they do in the meantime to feel like a functioning, valuable part of society?
This is not a one-size-fits-all world. I can teach that everybody should do what I did – because I did it so they can too. I can teach that. But I would be wrong.
Stephanie
In a couple of months I might see six score and ten. I do not wish to see yet another field trip in the great white north. Trust me, I would love to have another couple of minutes to cuddle my wife. As she observed, a career is just another damned job.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/article-one-love-two-homes-how-some-couples-find-happiness-in-living/
This will be the future. As close as any woman ever gets to long term stability.
Not married, not common law, not living in the same house, not sharing resources, no communal property.
“But its been 15 years!”
“Yes but just in case I need to protect myself”
“You don’t love me!”
“Yes I do, I just don’t Trust you.”
Welcome to your best future ladies!!!
There is a new post at Spawny’s
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/09/24/hazardous-to-your-health-mental-and-physical/
This will be the future. As close as any woman ever gets to long term stability.
Not married, not common law, not living in the same house, not sharing resources, no communal property.
My first experience with this, weirdly, was with an older guy, around 55 or 60 (I was a young lawyer at the time, fully blue pilled, around 35 or so). He was an expert witness I worked with. Accomplished, nice house, good location. Divorced for several years from the mom of his kids, and had not remarried. He talked at some length about his girlfriend, whom he’d been with 10 years. He said they lived totally separately, and he really liked it that way. I said “why don’t you just get married”
He replied with “I like my freedom, I like my money, I like my house. No way am I ever, ever getting married ever again”.
I guess he went to “visit” her often. Had sleepovers at his house and hers. Just… long term dating/hooking up/FwB situation. Intentionally kept her at arms length. No commingling property. No living together. Just an unenforceable promise that they each don’t have sex with others. “Going steady” they used to call it….
I am feeling encouraged. I was worried that dealing with California’s hooker Web Site would be difficult and dangerous. Nope. It’s like falling off a log.
I said above: Problem is, life does not always turn out the way it is supposed to, and that “together” word gets torn out of that phrase. The “together” part disappears because of divorce, being widowed, debilitating illness, etc. Suddenly “building a life together” becomes the more difficult “building a life – without help”.
Suddenly … Zippy Catholic’s
wife knows what that means.
And it is no longer just so many words … You never know when you are going to need to know how to do things by yourself.
Those who pray, please keep her in mind through this horrible transition.
I had never heard of Zippy before, but his family will be in my prayers.
I’m at the point I’m pretty dependent myself.
It happens, when people are very close and interdependent.
My father in law passed recently under very bad circumstances, and my mother in law is very lonely and bereft now.
They’d been together for over fifty years.
Zippy was well-versed in Catholic doctrine, and elaborated on that on his own blog. He used to post at Sunshine Mary’s place when that was up and running. His knowledge attracted other knowledgeable commenters to his blog. I’m not Catholic, so reading there was educational for me.
Liz, you said: It happens, when people are very close and interdependent.
Yes. That happens when both or only one are low-information folks That happens when both or only one are high-information folks. My argument is only that the high-information folks tend to fare better when they get left behind, particularly if they are women. The world is full of swindlers. A high-information woman is less likely to get swindled after she is left alone than a low-information woman.
Re Zippy: I had little love for Zippy. He and I locked horns more than once, and though I found him doctrinaire and wrong on a few things, I never doubted his sincerity or devotion to the Roman Catholic faith. In these parts his understanding of the Magisterium was unparalleled. If I had questions about Catholic doctrine, his was the go-to site.
My prayers are for his soul that he may now be in our Father’s presence, and for his family.
Is “high information” a made up term?
All words and phrases are made up. They cannot exist independant of human thought.
The phrase “low information voter” has been around since the 1990s and refers to voters who are poorly informed about the issues. You can find that phrase at Wikipedia.
A “high information voter”, conversely, would be a voter who is very knowledgeable about the issues.
Easy jump to “low information” and “high information” as terms that can be applied to regular folks as descriptors for how aware they are of the things they need to know in order to successfully navigate the world in which they live (e.g., farm folk live in a different world than city-dwellers in apartments, etc.) One who has had little schooling, does not read much, and has little curiosity would likely be a low information person. The opposite of the person described in this clip from the current “Competency and Men” thread at Spawny’s Space
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert Heinlein
I had that phrase tacked to my bulletin board at home once when my sister-in-law was visiting. She read it. Got a weird look on her face. And asked “why?” I had already decided, before then, that she was a low information person. Her response then further confirmed my thinking. I’m not criticizing low information folks. To each his own. I just wouldn’t turn to a low information person when I need someone who has a broad perspective on things to help me solve a problem.
“My argument is only that the high-information folks tend to fare better when they get left behind, particularly if they are women. The world is full of swindlers. A high-information woman is less likely to get swindled after she is left alone than a low-information woman.”
This is illogical when considering the modern, educated woman.
Colleges no longer teach the ability to think critically. A housewife who manages the entire household, may have a much higher IQ and “fare better” than the graduate degree who can’t for the life of her, make a relationship last.
The phrase I used was “tend to fare better”.
The phrase “tend to” makes that statement not an absolute – it leaves room for realities such as what you described.
Colleges no longer teach the ability to think critically.
I saw an article online yestereday (don’t remember where) in which business folks were making that same point about liberal arts degrees. I think we both agree that there are some college disciplines where critical thinking is fostered.
If a person is curious and likes to read and engage in conversation about concepts and ideas , they are likely to end up a high information person – regardless of whether they attend college or not. But a college educated person, even if they are not taught to think critically, will understand better because of that experience that the world is larger than just their local stomping grounds than will the person who has no curiousity and doesn’t like to read and did not go to college.
Some modern educated women save lives as doctors, run companies, stay home and raise competent children, and other things were they demonstrate their critical thinking skills. Some modern educated women don’t. I’ve known both.
I’ve said elsewhere, maybe upthread here – One size doesn’t fit all.
RichardP raises an important point. That is something I have wondered too. Very often in Red Pill sites people say that a woman should get married young and start a family. It is a good advice in general but it is not that simple since one can’t just get married on her own. You need a partner for that. For example I would have wanted to meet a guy when very young but unfortunately that didn’t happen. I thought I had found a relationship but I was mistaken. Now I’m 27 and single. I’m not old but not that young either. I guess I’m a failure in a way then but I can’t go back in time. And I propably won’t be able to even think about a new relationship now since I first have to recover from the last relationship.
For example I would have wanted to meet a guy when very young but unfortunately that didn’t happen.
So you lived in a cloistered nunnery, right? There were no men around you anywhere?
I thought I had found a relationship but I was mistaken. Now I’m 27 and single. I’m not old but not that young either. I guess I’m a failure in a way then but I can’t go back in time. And I propably won’t be able to even think about a new relationship now since I first have to recover from the last relationship.
If you were sleeping with him, then unfortunately it tempts men to put off marriage. Oftentimes men will sleep with a girl throughout her 20’s, breakup and then promptly marry someone more marriage material.
Best way to avoid that scenario is to save sex for marriage.
I feel very fortunate to have married young. But if I hadn’t met Mike (and he hadn’t pursued me) I’m sure my life would be very different. I wasn’t a person who wanted kids or marriage back then. I think it’s better to be alone than with someone you don’t admire or respect.
The reason they have the word “spinster”…it’s a title of employment, the typical career of an old, unmarried woman back when fabrics were hand-spun.
@Question said So you lived in a cloistered nunnery, right? There were no men around you anywhere?
Question, either you are trying to suss out more detail (and doing a poor job of it) or you are an ass.
For the vast majority – male or female – we don’t get who we want. We get who will have us. That is what rosalie is saying. She perceives that she never met someone who would have her for a spouse. That is an affliction that many folks bear.
Liz, I feel like I said this on another thread, but seeing life play out differently is what I think probably would have happened to me, too. Life is so complicated. I knew I wanted to marry young, but I didn’t think it would happen the way it did. I was more prepared to meet someone as I was working.
Re: low information or “uneducated women”… most “house-wives” I know at least have a bachelor degree. I don’t know any housewives without a college degree.
Stephanie – OT – I finally had time yesterday to read though a lot of what you wrote under the “Spritual Growth” section of your site. I scanned through the rest. It only reinforced my belief that you and I disagree on very little, if anything at all.
I’m using the term “low information” person in this thread in connection with whether a wife is susceptible to being swindled by others if she is left alone through death or divorce or simple abandonment.
Hmmm, not sure that having a degree benefits children. I wouldn’t say the opposite but I do know some wonderful mothers with limited academic credentials.
Some of the lowest information people I know are the most educated on paper.
But I do think it’s good to have a useful skill set. A PhD in Queer studies or lesbian poetry theory isn’t very useful…it’s anti-useful. But not all degrees are the same….and (as I mentioned above) the racket is forcing higher and higher education levels for positions that shouldn’t require it.
There’s a vast difference between the way my mom operates now that my dad is gone (she’s basically useless…I have to write checks for her when I visit because she cannot) and the way my mom in law does (she won a Rhode’s scholarship back in the late 60s but turned it down to marry Mike’s dad). She can take care of herself very well.
[rant/blab to marmoewp, on IB’s latest thread]“That “argument” is shere nonsense. “It could have been worse” does not negate “it was the worst to happen so far”.
Don’t worry….tomorrow, or the next day, or surely by next week, she’ll post something 180 from what she said here. It’s like the tide. The unpredictability is very predictable.
LOL… I will never understand, Liz, why you continue to read IB. The cognitive dissonance hurts my brain. Poor lady… although I think she thoroughly enjoys being bipolar.
And I take it back that all the housewives I know have at least a bachelor’s…. Ame, has some college, but if I remember right, not a full degree and she’s an amazing mom. She’s at that point where her kids are thanking her for all she’s done and sacrificed throughout the years.
Hey…Richard got me started back there with his link. 😆
Think I can’t look away because some of the time she’s spot on.
And maybe there’s a part of me that’s intrigued…this might all be an act as part of a psych experiment to see how many people she can get to simultaneously root for 180 out viewpoints (if so, it has been successful).
Speaking of Ame, hope all is well…haven’t heard from her in a while.
It’s not so much a matter of Educational Credentials, or even IQ, as it is a matter of Good Judgment. One can have both of the former without having much of the latter.
Helicopter parenting, I’m afraid, is not consistent with the development of judgment.
Scott Adams mentions something he calls a “talent stack”. No one is the sum of one skillset/experience it’s a combination of experiences and skills that offer unique advantages (also helps with outlier/ outside the box solutions to problems…which always seem to obvious after they’re solved, not so much before).
Just a small and simple example to make the point, if you’ve never seen s zebra, but know what a horse is, it’s easy to understand what a zebra looks like…explaining it to you is very easy, basically looks like a horse with white and black stripes. Far harder to explain if one has never seen a horse or similar.
I said upthread:
If a person is curious and likes to read and engage in conversation about concepts and ideas , they are likely to end up a high information person – regardless of whether they attend college or not.
And remember that, upthread, I was applying that to a specific situation, not all of a person’s life. One can be high-information is one area of life and low information in another.
Those who study these things have proposed that one’s need for cognition and innate curiousity are significant drivers in whether one becomes a high or low information person.
To expand on Liz’s zebra example, I think in terms of the blind guys examining the elephant. I can’t see the elephant either – so I like to listen to the descriptions of all of the guys because it gives me a broader understanding of what the elephant is probably like. If I only relied on my own experience of examining the elephant, I would have a less-complete picture of reality in my head.
So I like to read Insanity Bytes as time allows. She writes well, even if some of her ideas are cock-eyed. Same thing with others like Doug Wilson and Dalrock, etc. Time constraints won’t let me (and I’m sure others) read everything everbody writes. But I dip in from time to time. And thereby gain a better conception of the elephant.
But, to be honest, I’m really just collecting information on the world my daughter is moving into – so that I can better hear what she has to say and guide her thinking in appropriate ways. Once married and a cog in the wheel, I didn’t pay any attention to the changing circumstances of guy / girl interaction from high-school on through higher education and/or marriage (I had no need to). In anticipating daughter’s path to Speech and Language Pathology, I googled for information on the discipline. Sunshine Mary came up in my search. Intrigued by the name, I clicked on her link and went “whoah – there’s a new elephant in the room and I have no idea what it looks like. I’m so thankful for the likes of SSM and Stephanie and the other young folks who are sharing their experiences on the subject of guy/girl interaction out in the wild. It has educated me, and that education has allowed me to be a better father.
thanks for asking … been sick but try to scan comments.
More info from Cassie Jaye, I like her courage:
Ame
Well, I doubt that I can get my “Chinese”soup to Texas so hang in there kid ;-D
thank you, BG … my loss 🙂
unfortunately, i’m actually quite ill and will take a looong time to get well 😦 . am a bit scared … trusting God … believe i finally fund a doc who can help me … fixin to begin an intense treatment plan … feeling cautiously hopeful.
btw – love being called ‘kid’ 🙂
Oh no! 😦 Sorry to hear you are ill, Ame. Hope you get better soon.
Intense treatment plan doesn’t sound good….
Intense treatment plan doesn’t sound good.
My comments are getting eaten by wordpress for some reason….
Intense treatment plan does not sound good.
You’ll be in my prayers, Ame.