Tags
dating, dating advice, divorce, living together, marriage, Redpill
Back in the early 90s, when I was in my early 20s, a friend’s wife, who was from England, surprised me by saying that in England marriage was out of fashion.
She went on to explain in a largely agnostic culture, marriage was viewed as, “just a piece of paper.”
Couples preferred to shack up and just declare themselves together versus getting married. When it didn’t work out, the couple simply split without the need for lawyers and a messy divorce.
At the time I could not imagine how that would work, maybe if there weren’t children involved, but the whole thing seemed very noncommittal to me.
Now 20 years later and I am seeing a similar trend in the United States. I am not sure the reasoning is the same, although living together without marriage is now common and even encouraged. Here I think it is more driven by girls being told, “Don’t settle down too soon.”
Ironically, the couples I do see marrying are often each other’s only significant partner, high school sweethearts, if you will. They are usually in their early to mid 20s, many report being together nine years or longer.
As I spoke to one such couple a few weeks ago, both exceptionally attractive and he clearly a natural alpha, I found myself wondering if these would be the only couples of their generation to marry? (Her dad was beaming at the future son-in-law, obviously very happy with his 9+ Supermodel-pretty daughter’s pick.)
First love is strong, especially so for a male. I think the advice to young girls to, “explore” may not be good advice. She may never again find such absolute devotion. Do they tell her that, too?
I suppose we will only truly know in many decades what becomes of these young lovers versus those who wait.
What do you think? Please share in the comments!
“I hope you never seriously think that. 😦
If his family valued his happiness they would be grateful for you.
If his family valued his judgement they would be grateful and welcome you.
That they do not is a reflection on them, not either of you.
I know family events are hard though.
Kind of brings it all to the surface since you’re having to face it.
It’s good your family is accepting of him, so it’s not on both sides.
That’s how it was with us, too.
My Dad especially really loved Mike.”
I’m sorry, Liz. I really do feel that way sometimes, because it does cause my husband pain… he was very close to his family, his Matriarchal family where his aunt (who was like a second mom to him) was controlling but he never realized it until he tried to make his own decisions. But there was still a lot of love and comfort and familiarity with his big family, and now he’s ostracized, too… because of me. 😥
But thank you ❤ you are right I'm sure.
It was just hard at that wedding. He felt it big time just how much they have ostracized our family… I mean even going so far as to be cold and ignoring our children!
and now he’s ostracized, too… because of me. 😥
NO! not because of you … but because he has chosen a better, wiser path in life. you’re the one they blame, but just b/c someone blames you does NOT mean you are guilty 😉
it’s EASY to use children to manipulate adults … adults do this ALL.THE.TIME.
Stephanie,
I am sad for your situation, but, after reading your comments, it has to be so much worse for your husband. They’re his family. He did make the decision on his own and it sounds like the right one for his immediate family. Don’t feel any guilt for this or take any responsibility. This is all outside of your ability to control.
Still, I hate Meghan Markle. I am sure the Queen would much rather have you for a granddaughter in law.
@ Stephanie: I’m guessing that, at some level, what I’m presenting to you below has already ocurred to you. But – in case it hasn’t – here it is.
@Stephanie said: he was very close to his family, his Matriarchal family where his aunt (who was like a second mom to him) was controlling …
1. If the norm is for the women (or A woman) to rule in that family, then it makes sense that they would think you rule in yours. That is their norm. It’s not just that “you have taken him away”. It’s that you are a threat to their way of life. What if some of their men decide they like the way that you encourage your husband to use you as his helper rather than as his ruler. They might get ideas. Plus, you are young and vigorous and enthusiastic and s*xy as h*ll. What if your presence put ideas in their men’s heads to go find their own version of you? I’m not joking with these questions. I’m sure the other ladies on this site know far better than I do how unsettling it can be for someone like you to come around and show their husbands that there are alternatives. Their go-to defense is the same as it is for all other women in their position: they make it difficult and uncomfortable for you to be part of their group. That is a defense move to protct their power structure.
2. If your husband truely shares your belief in the way you guys are structuring your family, both secular and spiritual, then it is true that he can never go home. What he is longing for is something that he once had – being comfortably embedded in an extended family that cared for him. But, now that he is more certain about what he believes, and more knowledgeable about what “they” believe, he might go “home” – but it won’t be the “home” that he left. How does one ever relax into the embrace of those one knows are diametrically opposed to what one believes? You now must be the one into whose embrace he relaxes (and I know it will be difficult so long as the children are young and own the majority of attention you have to give). Just as God intended it to be – for this reason shall Patrick leave father and mother and hold fast to Stephanie (Genesis 2:24)
Like Lot’s wife, we keep wanting to turn back and look longingly at the warm family embrace of our childhood (for those of us who had it), when the truth is we have left it behind and it will forevermore only exist in our memories. Go to family gatherings as a cohesive unit, looking to each other for the warm embrace of family. Don’t go to such gatherings hoping that you can recreate or recapture the family’s warm embrace that they gave you as a child. Not gonna happen. In large part because neither of you are any longer children.
3. I’m not Catholic, and I might be off a bit on this – but I understand that the orthodox Catholics believe that salvation cannot be obtained outside of the Catholic church. To the extent that this is true, and to the extent that your husband’s family believes this, then I can understand the emotion behind their assertions that you “stole” him. Your “protestant” faith is strong and that is probably obvious to his family. They may be convinced that, if you were not in the picture, he might eventually come back to the mother Catholic church, and thus back to salvation. But with you in the picture, with your strong protestant beliefs, he is not likely to ever get “weak” enough to come home to Catholicism. And, thus, you are preventing him from getting to true salvation. To the extent that they believe this, it is not surprising that they are unwilling to welcome you into their group.
4. Finally, remember that it is common for folks to hold ideas or concepts or beliefs in their mind that, when examined, turn out to be atagonistic to each other. So it would be that family can fear for the salvation of one who used to be theirs while at the same time living lives that you know God does not approve of. There is a lot about folk’s approach to life that is not internally consistent. Best to just accept that and let it be and take from folks what they are able to give you, and not expect anything more.
excellent, excellent comment, Richard. Stephanie … take heed Richard’s words.
Completely off topic, but only a feminist could dream up stuff like this.
@Fuzzie, yes, I think that it’s *his* family it *is* harder, but he has said he accepts it. Go figure I’m the one whose having a grieving process! Good to see you commenting, Fuzzie.
@Richard, I’ve never thought about it that way, that the men in their family might “get ideas,” lol and start trying to lead like Patrick does.
So 5 years ago, I found Dalrock’s post on a wife’s best defense against a mother-in-law, and I commented a little about what we went through, and I talked a little on the male response (it wasn’t good) from here: https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/a-wifes-best-defense-against-a-troublesome-mother-in-law/#comment-110267
From the old comment:
>>>>>>”I’ve never seen this kind of problem explained the way Dalrock just explained it, however, I’ve been in this situation years ago when we were first married. It only stopped when my husband decided to truly lead and stop the ridiculous behavior of his family (mainly his mother but also aunts… it really does make sense that it was a kind of matriarchal set-up with the men, their husbands, being weak overall and not being able to call-out their ridiculous behavior).
My husband was not naturally weak, and I thought he was doing well leading us together, it was only when his mother decided I wasn’t doing things the way she thought I should be (taking the role of leader over us – taking that leader role away from him) that I can see her actions emasculated him. When he filled his role as leader and called them out on the behavior his family had to deal seriously with his mother’s actions.
His dad went to strange extremes to defend his wife, lying about what she actually said, saying he was present for things that happened when both my husband & I knew he wasn’t… it was so strange to see his rationalizations to defend his wife, since I guess ultimately, he couldn’t say anything against her.
Even though when she’d be gossiping horribly about other in-laws I would see her husband cringe – he despised it but he wouldn’t tell her anything to stop it, and then when push came to shove he denied she gossiped about anyone. Denial. 😦”
^^
So the male response, at least from his father, was vehement and somewhat unhinged denial his mom did anything wrong, and total siding with his wife! Several of the men seemed to most likely be stuck in dead bedroom marriages (we think?), but boy did they defend their wives with a defense that was passionate! Almost as if their existence depended upon their wives being “right,” to control the family and younger members of the family.
Case in point… the main Matriarch, my husband’s aunt who acted as a second mother to him growing up, would be called upon by any of her sisters and brothers who needed to whip their adult children into shape. She’d then go into this mode of literally harassing these young adults with angry emails and texts and phone calls where she’d berate them into doing whatever it was their parents or she thought they *should * be doing. This was how they kept the family, “in line.”
So she did this to my husband even after we were married! It was so shocking to me, but he thought it was normal, even though he didn’t “obey,” her or listen to her. I mean it was even minor issues like once she demanded that we get rid of our cats LOL… and then started emailing us telling us we were bad parents that were choosing our cats over our baby! She went further and did much worse things where my husband had to have an ugly, all-out fight with her to draw hard lines, but again, this was almost a decade ago!
And my husband’s father was SO ANGRY at us that my husband DARED to confront his aunt and tell her she had to stop and that it was inappropriate. He then made some statement that we were trying to “destroy,” her LOL. By having boundaries 😀
imagine that!!!
So the male response was extreme in defending the Matriarchy that is set in place.
And I’m sorry if I sound like a bitch laughing at them… I don’t mean it in a “mean,” way, it’s just so crazy to me that him having boundaries was “destroying,” her! Like … what?!?!
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve somehow… miraculously… gotten a lot more compassion for them and even for his controlling old aunt! Even though it’s painful to suddenly realize (like an idiot) that wow, my efforts may never actually pay off in this lifetime, I still feel for them in a way. It may be misplaced compassion, but it’s there.
Stephanie
Even the worst can change. My mother in law truly doubted our marriage, mostly because we were a very different culture in the west. Plus her family had five daughters and one son, where we had four sons and one daughter.
But when I brought my wife’s ashes back to say goodbye, and the pastor asked me to talk about her, I said I will play the pipes on amazing grace, she would have liked that. There were no dry eyes including mine, my mother in law finally figured out why her daughter liked me.
ttps://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=amazing+grace+on+pipes&&view=detail&mid=B9013C229B319B4629A2B9013C229B319B4629A2&&FORM=VDRVRV
Stephanie,
i think there’s a much bigger picture here, don’t you? God is bigger than simply you … God is changing a whole family line of crazy through you and Patrick 😉
it would take such a monumental shift in all they’ve lived and believed for them to like you. it’s not about you, it’s about what they believe and how they live. since people like that never take responsibility for their own stuff, they have to blame someone.
God’s got a much bigger picture going on here 🙂
Stephanie,
It is beginning to sound more familiar to me. Lesser people play dominance games.
In other news, they won’t leave this guy alone. I have to wonder at the wisdom of persecuting an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court. Runs four minutes.
They are pissed because he turned his back on his tribe and culutre.
I would tell my kids to get their shit, change their last name and zip code
Stephanie
What I was saying is do not give up completely. My mother in law detested everything about me for more than 40 years, but she finally understood that my wife and myself loved each other ;-D
Crabs in bucket
https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2016/04/10/crabs-in-a-bucket/
Two posts I saw on Facebook that made me smile.
Both tooth fairy related.
Kids do the cutest things!!
One friend’s child put a tooth in a plastic bag and wrote on bag with marker:
“I lost my tooth, but here is an old one”.
Guess he found his mom’s stash of teeth somewhere and didn’t put two and two together. 😆
Another note, different friend’s child:
“Tooth fairy my tooth is lost at Jacobs aquatics place. It is at the water park there. Its at the pirate shipride. Its in the drane. That’s white. -Sincerely John”
“They are pissed because he turned his back on his tribe and culutre.”
Well, they were a death cult tribe anyway, led completely by the females, so I understand why he didn’t choose that.
And he’s the only one in the younger generation producing children (outside of ONE cousin… out of like 17-18 in his generation). They’re “Catholic,” but basically none of them are producing children = death of tribe.
“As I’ve gotten older, I’ve somehow… miraculously… gotten a lot more compassion for them and even for his controlling old aunt!”
I’ve been reading this thread with interest, especially the comments from Stephanie concerning the family rejection (if I understood correctly). I dealt VERY briefly with some inter-family bullshit about my marriage, and said bullshit lasted about 2 minutes. For some obscure reason both my mother and sister “disapproved” of my bride. LOL!
I let both of these clucking busy bodies understand that I was neither seeking nor wanting their approval, I frankly did not give a fuck what they thought.
Family members who thought it was a good idea to give me shit have discovered that I have absolutely no problems cutting them entirely out of my life for good. Sometimes a nuclear option is the only option.
“They are pissed because he turned his back on his tribe and culutre.
I would tell my kids to get their shit, change their last name and zip code.”
Coming from you, I see this as a clear threat to Stephanie’s children. I always thought you were low. I didn’t think you were that low.
Have another drink.
It is ok, Fuzzie, he really did turn his back on his, “tribe,” and culture.
He literally picked the most different, opposite kind of woman he could find, and that’s a huge “F-U” to his parents, and crazy controlling aunt, grandparents, etc.
Seeing y’all’s responses kind of help me, “get it,” more.
And I’m glad for you, b g, that she finally accepted you… I just can’t believe it took 40 years.
I’m not a fan of people who wait that long to be kind. It’s like… what on earth is the point after that much time (and so many wasted relationship opportunities like with our kids and such).
And Ame is right… it is more than just,”me, myself, and I.” I’m sorry to sound so idiotic and self-absorbed.
Stephanie,
You are a committed and supportive wife. Why anyone would have a problem with you is beyond me.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. – Matthew 10:34-39
we *never* want this to be *me* … but sometimes it is.
i know it’s hard, Stephanie, especially since it’s your dream. shattered dreams suck 😦
LOL you are lying sack of shit Fuzzie. On your best days
Projection, much?
fuzzie: “Lesser people play dominance games …”
One-up games usually end with the people who want to play one-up games against those who don’t want to play them being discovered as harbouring some vile history of some kind …
After all, if these people actually had competence and strength, they wouldn’t need to resort to absurd psychological games.
The solution nearly always consists of flipping the script and scaring these people into a survival mode that involves no longer messing with you for reasons of fear, uncertainty, and doubt, at least for starters.
Matthew 10:36 comes into effect, and putting them to the “sword” of Matthew 10:34 consists of certain reliable people having bits of inconvenient fact ready to use in the event that certain vile things be further plotted against you, holding the “sword of truth” above their heads in order to be ready to deliver a finishing blow.
Jack Reacher’s Theory of Fights always applies, even in domestic matters: you will probably only have to take down one of the bullies in your family for the rest to scatter to the winds.
In my case, it was exactly one.
Post Alley Crackpot, thank you.
I found something hopeful to share with all of us.
May it be so. I used to think that one large penitentiary in the middle of the US would be able to house all the miscreants. I have since formed the opinion that it may take one in every state and two in Rhode Island.
Stephine…. the new(ish) majordomo suggested Santa Maria may be in play. Could explain the whole deal and it’s way more common with Mexican chicks then most folks
I don’t believe in that shit ablity to impact a believer but it would lay out their bevhouir
It should be real easy for you to point out the threat.
But there is none so you do your womanish bullshit of instigating and lying your ass off.
There is a reason why you are unwelcome in so many aspects of life.
“They are pissed because he turned his back on his tribe and culutre.
I would tell my kids to get their shit, change their last name and zip code.”
Now, why would any parent tell their kids to do this? The only reason is that they are under threat.
Have another drink.
Have two.
Smashing success. Our manosphere Web conference yesterday was a smashing success. It was called Ask A Hooker. My girlfriend, a level 5 hooker (highest level) on the hooker Web Site, held court for a handful of us pervy men. She discussed pricing, young men who cannot get laid, and old men whose wives won’t have sex with them anymore. She discussed how she is a sex worker but that her clients use her as a psychotherapist. She spends most of the hour listening to men share their feelings.
My girlfriend is coming to a Youtube channel near you. I am sure that content providers in the manosphere will start interviewing her.
Roger,
I’ll watch when you can provide a link. Thanks.
Don’t worry, Fuzzie. It will come up in your Youtube feed next month.
I’ll keep my eyes open. Most of what I get are bear videos. I don’t know why.
If we do not start teaching our kids what marriage is, what it means to be in a loving relationship, teach them about care, empathy, respect, responsibility towards someone not for someone, passion, intimacy, commitment as a choice not an obligation .. marriage will probably be extinct.
This is perfect. We run a marriage blog https://marriedstrong.com/ and we couldn’t agree more with you Snob Not!
Many question what makes a marriage last?
Married couples can stay together if they love each other. God teaches us how to love.
When husbands and wives respect marriage as an arrangement by God, they will stay together.
God created marriage to be a permanent union between a man and a women so that families would be secure.
Marriage can last because God made men and women to complement each other physically and emotionally. He also made them in his image, with the ability to image his love – Genesis 1:27, 2:18 & 24