Tag Archives: beta orbiter

Beta Orbiters from the Gal Side

22 Wednesday Mar 2017

Posted by in Relationships

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You may recall I have written about Vixen, my former neighbor before, and an update, and her latest… Well this morning I talked to her and probed further to try and understand why the Alpha/beta orbiter thing, and by golly I think I may have struck a red pill goldmine! New data to fold in, in any case, hopefully.

(Male readers: Please keep in mind the following is examined from the FEMALE pov. What I would advise the men in this situation, or what men would advise them, likely would be, “Next!” And I get that. I feel for these guys involved, I truly do! I am just trying to explain the “why” of female behavior from the gal side, which may help men understand it better too, but please know I am NOT saying it is good or right gals do this. To clarify. )

Short story, she’s been torn between two guys for several years: One is an Alpha who she chases, one is a beta who chases her. Both are intelligent, successful, and good looking guys. However her playing the fence is damaging the chances of relationship success with either suitor by the day. So why does she do it?

It’s an ancient female mindset, and a part of hypergamy, to always have a plan B, and C if needed. Aka the beta orbiter. Why? Life is historically precarious for a woman, especially a woman with small children, as her man may go off to war or off to hunt and never return. (Life as a man is obviously risky as well, in a more direct way, by no means minimizing that.)

She really wants the Alpha, but he won’t fully commit to her (and maybe for good reason!) This leaves her feeling unsafe. So she keeps the beta orbiter close by, in case Alpha bails. Beta orbiter is a real steady Eddie, willing to watch her kids, pay for their dance lessons, pay her bills, the works. Before the unplanned (or was it?) pregnancy with Apha, I highly advocated she forget Alpha and go for the beta orbiter, who I believe is a far better bet if what she needs is a family man. He’s actually far better looking, far more interesting and intelligent, and so on as well. The better “catch” imho, except despite me advising him not to be, he’s just too darn available! And that turns her off.

Meanwhile the Alpha remains just out of reach. He’s told her he would marry her and take care of her in a minute, IF she knocks off the beta orbiter thing and adopts HIS frame. But she isn’t sure… will he? Can she trust him? After all, he’s got “options” and has shown he’s willing to walk if needed. (Ironically this is exactly what draws her in, if he was too available, he’d be a deta orbiter in her mind, and she’d likely seek another Alpha. Complex, I know!)

And so it goes round and round. I suggested she completely cut off contact with the beta orbiter, because he undermines her relationship with the Alpha and is a BIG reason things aren’t progressing to a commitment. She really needs to choose. And to PROVE herself worthy of commitment!

Add to that, the wall approaches and I pointed this out to her today. Don’t waste precious time, I suggested. Get this figured out NOW, don’t wait until you are 50.  (She’s 41, I believe.)

She saw the sense in all this, when I explained the concepts. I truly believe she herself does not understand how her feminine imperative is pushing her to do things that are not helping, but actually hurting her chances of success. One must recognize the self-sabatoge hypergamy can cause, and why women play these games, to overcome them.

She said it was because Alpha isn’t local, as his job requires him to be onsite in a remote location (and pays much more b/c of that.) To this I called BS. I am in a long distance relationship myself, which she is seeing is working very well for me now that I am red pill savvy enough to “get” what I need to give and be to have that successful long distance relationship.  But as I told her, he’ leave me in a MINUTE if I played the games she is, and so I simply don’t. He’s way too good to me for me to ever even think of risking that! Because of him, my life now works in ways it never could have without him, and I feel safe. It’s a choice, I told her. If she wants what she sees I have, then she needs to accept his frame and the job situation.

Anyway, I hope Vixen will consider all this and for her baby boy’s sake, do what the Alpha demands, make him cookies, and nurtures that relationship with all she has. And most of all gives him one of the biggest things a gal can give a man — LOYALTY. Commit to him or he will never commit to you!

We’ll see… you can lead a horse to water but… I hope to God she DRINKS!!!! (I’d force her to drink if I could but she needs to see it on her own and do so willingly, darn it!)

What do you think? Have you seen women do this? Please share in the comments…

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Head Games Don’t Pay Off

13 Monday Feb 2017

Posted by in Relationships

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I have written about my former neighbor I nicknamed Vixen before more than once. Last time I wrote about her she was about to have a baby, and was torn between the dad who wouldn’t commit and the beta orbiter who would.

The baby is now almost 10 months old and sure is a cute little guy! He has a very even temperament and is the “easy baby” all moms hope for. I think God knew what she could handle, and cut her a lot of slack!

She still continues to waffle between the two choices, never fully committing or detaching from either one. So things continue to be a cluster.

The other night I had a little red pill heart to heart with her, and explained that a big reasons she (and her kids) are in the situation she’s in is due to her fence sitting. In classic projection she’s the one who is really unwilling to commit to either path 100%, not them, and the longer it goes on the more damage is being done.

Honestly I am surprised they both have not given up on her by now, but from what I see both guys are willing to commit to her *IF* she would commit to them. But she can’t decide, and that is the problem.

The baby’s father has a great job but it is and always has been in a different state. He comes home frequently, but as he has explained to her multiple times if he were to take a job closer to home, he’d be taking a 2/3 pay cut as well.

He’s got an Alpha temperament and so the more she tries to bend him to her will, the more distance he puts between them. I have met him and seen them interact and she constantly “shit tests” him whenever he comes home for the weekend. His reaction? He doesn’t want to be around her, and so he leaves.

As I watched her once again bring up the tired old, “We wouldn’t fight if you were here, it’s your job that is the problem,” yada yada last time he visited, I could not help but interrupt, “Haven’t we had this fight already?” (Not to mention in front of myself and the kids!)

He’s made it pretty clear he is more than willing to pay her rent and commit to her *if* she will stop the nagging and fighting and would drop the orbiter. And yet she just can’t seem to stop herself, even when it leads to him breaking things off and dating other women for awhile, which he has done. He’s a good guy but he simply is not going to tolerate her behavior.

Her beta orbiter is also a great guy. But she says as much as she wishes she felt “tingles” with him, she doesn’t. He’s too available, too ready to run to her aid, too willing to put up with her nonsense. It kills  her attraction but he just can’t seem to stop himself. He’s holding on in hopes that he will be the last guy standing in the end.

During our red pill talk I asked her which one she wanted. She said the baby’s father, ideally, which I also agree now that baby is here and he is willing if she can learn to curb her tongue. But I explained to her he would never be all in unless she was too. And that means cutting off the beta orbiter and his “help” 100% completely. And of course all other potential orbiters or relationships with single men who are attracted to her.

I also pointed out that her behavior was driving him away, and that rather than fight with him every time he comes to town, maybe she should welcome him, make a fuss, treat him like a king, and not complain. Make her place somewhere he can’t wait to get to rather than run away from.

He’s got the opportunity to transfer to an equal job here within the next six months.  So I suggested she spend the next six months cementing the relationship than continue to play foolish games. Cut off the other guy completely in the meantime, as his involvement and help only makes things more confusing. She simply can’t have both. She agreed it made sense.

Then, this weekend, just two days after our talk she spent most of her time with guess who? The beta orbiter. Ug!

I didn’t say anything, but she knows what I think. She’s playing with fire and it’s going to end up with her and her kids getting burned I am afraid.

She has taken note of my own long distance relationship, also due to work constraints. Rather than fight with him and make it an issue, I patiently wait because I realize it is in both of our best interest he ride out the next few years to get a full retirement that will be a huge benefit to us both! In the meantime we are in frequent contact, never fight, and see each other as often as his leave time allows. On weekends I stay home and I stay away from “friendships” with single guys because I don’t want him to even have to question where I stand. I have chosen him and that’s that. I do all I can to prove I am a good bet rather than play games and try to make him prove himself to me! He’s all in, but I know he would not be if I were not, too! (And I respect that!)

The bottom line is men don’t share. They just don’t. And men don’t like a bunch of drama either. Her own behavior is why she is single and has a commitment from nobody, while meanwhile I don’t have a care in the world and all is swell! I know she’s watching how I am handling my own situation differently, and I hope it will click for her, although honestly there’s already a LOT of damage done in the last 2-3 years she’s played games. I don’t see how either relationship could ever be what it fully could have been had she not played games. I wonder if she will ever get that?

What do you think? Have you ever seen a woman try to run a relationship as if she is an Alpha male? Except she isn’t, so the plate spinning and jealousy does not work in her favor? Please share your thoughts in the comments.

(Personally I think both guys should RUN!!! But softie that I am, I still hope for her, her kid’s, and the guys sake she will figure it out before they do.)

Let those who have ears hear.

 

 

 

Beware Male-Female Friendships

12 Friday Aug 2016

Posted by in Relationships

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It’s been said that men and women can’t be “just friends.” While I am not sure it is entirely true, if there is attraction on either side that isn’t mutual it likely is true.

The guys in the manosphere have said that men rarely hang out with women they aren’t interested in. So if he’s spending time with you on a social level, or doing stuff like helping you move or fixing your car or other “boyfriend” type things, chances are he may hope that if he just hangs in there you will fall for him.

While you can’t control what other people feel, you can control your own actions. And the thing is in this case it’s in everyone’s best interests if you minimize contact with male friends you don’t have a romantic interest in.

Why? Such situations rarely end well. More often there are feelings of hurt, rejection, and even anger on his side, as well as feelings of confusion on yours when the friendship implodes when the interested party has finally had enough. Often, things get ugly, rumors get spread, and reputations are tarnished.

In the manosphere such a dynamic is called a “beta orbiter.” And depending on one’s point of view, he puts himself in that position, or she does, or perhaps both. A beta orbiter is a guy waiting in the wings, hoping he will get a chance to win your heart.  Often that desire is not communicated or expressed, so much so that a gal could take it at face value and truly think it’s “just friends” when he really is hoping it will be more.

I have unwittingly been in this situation more than once, and always regret that I did not recognize what was happening sooner, before feelings were hurt or people felt taken advantage of.

Even worse is when women work these dynamics on purpose, knowing that she is manipulating him. Just don’t. Totally not ok. Ever.

It’s not always the case that men and women can’t be friends, but often it is. Do everyone a favor and avoid getting into this sticky situation and unintentionally (or intentionally) hurting others.

Have you ever been a beta orbiter? Have you ever had a beta orbiter? What happened? Please share in the comments.